What Civ 5 teaches us about history

[Sombra]

Civ 5 as a simulation game about history and building empires to stand the test of time teaches us some valuable lessons neglected in most modern history books.
1. The driving force of history is the need of luxury resources: Give my gold, furs and pearls and we will be happy. This much in line with Theories of Douglas Adams theories that the development of better and more shoes is the driving force of civilization.
2. Leaders of Civilizations are immortal
3. In the beginning there were lots of different civilizations and the number got smaller throughout history.
4. People actually like losers . Well up to a point. It doesn’t matter if you lose battles or cities but never ever win and conquer other people. It will make your people at home unhappy. The biggest mistake of Rome was to win wars and successfully conquer .

[Ingwaz]

oh please, its not a simulation. Civ 5 takes place in a different dimension.

[mindbreaker]

Civ 5 as a simulation game about history and building empires to stand the test of time teaches us some valuable lessons neglected in most modern history books.
1. The driving force of history is the need of luxury resources: Give my gold, furs and pearls and we will be happy. This much in line with Theories of Douglas Adams theories that the development of better and more shoes is the driving force of civilization.

Well you could see Gold as well as an strategic resource, as it was used to pay armies. Anyway strategic resources also were trade goods, especially if they could be monopolized.

2. Leaders of Civilizations are immortal

Of course they are, at least in history books

3. In the beginning there were lots of different civilizations and the number got smaller throughout history.

Of course got the number of civilizations smaller as they got conquered by some warmongers

4. People actually like losers . Well up to a point. It doesn’t matter if you lose battles or cities but never ever win and conquer other people. It will make your people at home unhappy. The biggest mistake of Rome was to win wars and successfully conquer .

Actually it was one of the most important points why Rome collapsed because it overexpanded. But in CiV there can be cultured warmongers. Yeah right, civilized barbarians

5. What CiV teaches us is, that the human history is full of wars, as land is power in terms of economy and therefor armies.

6. You can never rely on long term allies, as they are likely to stab you in the back

[zephyrtr]

Makes you wonder, too, about why every time Gold is always the currency everyone's clamoring over. Turns out NPR asked a Chemist why gold is always, no matter where you go, considered valuable. If you wanna read the article, link's below:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/...um-einsteinium

Basically its because Gold is solid, isn't radioactive, is easily findable, its easily molded or shaped into coins or bricks, its not too rare and its not too common, but most importantly it is one of the rare metals that isn't corroded by natural elements. Only a few metals meet this criteria, and they are all considered precious metals.

So no matter how many times you play Civ, Trading Posts are always better than Farms!

[psikoticsilver]

Except those power tile hill-on-a-river-farms which are quite boss... and those plains farms post fertilizer which make my production cities cry for joy. I play without city states nowadays



What Civ5 teaches me about history is that one, remote, small city-state in a barren, tundra-filled, wasteland can feed an entire civilization consisting of millions (billions) of people.

[ManOverGame]

Funny, civlization V is actually helping me in world history class a lot.

[EnigmaCode]

Civ 5 as a simulation game about history and building empires to stand the test of time teaches us some valuable lessons neglected in most modern history books.
1. The driving force of history is the need of luxury resources: Give my gold, furs and pearls and we will be happy. This much in line with Theories of Douglas Adams theories that the development of better and more shoes is the driving force of civilization.
2. Leaders of Civilizations are immortal
3. In the beginning there were lots of different civilizations and the number got smaller throughout history.
4. People actually like losers . Well up to a point. It doesn’t matter if you lose battles or cities but never ever win and conquer other people. It will make your people at home unhappy. The biggest mistake of Rome was to win wars and successfully conquer .

Well, Civ V is not a historical simulation. As a commentator said previously, Civ takes place in alternate dimension - an alternate universe. If it were a simulation then how can I play as America in 4000 BC? How can I play as Russia and conquer the Aztecs? How can I play as Rome in 2000? It's not supposed to be 100% historically accurate; it's a game. Civ V is not entirely history. It's a combination of both fantasy and history.

Now, what does Civ teach us about history? Well, it's not supposed to be 100% historically accurate, but we can deduce some lessons about history from it.

1) One of the main driving forces of history is the need for resources. Wars have been fought for oil, gold, and even water. The need for resources such as rubber, oil, or iron can drive a civilization to wage war against a country to gain resources. Resources play a key force in history.

2) Overexpansion leads to the fall of empires. The overexpansion of empires leads to their fall and their decline if they are not properly managed. Overstretched empires can fall due to attacks from outside forces or from dissent and rebellion from within. A leader who spends too much time on his army and not enough on his people will have a very unhappy population which may decide to overthrow the leader. Overexpansion leads to the fall of empires.

3) Alliances are formed and broken constantly throughout history. An alliance is formed for the benefit of thsoe countries that are a part of it. Once there is no benefits to be reaped from an alliance, they may choose to withdraw from the alliance or break the alliance. This is repeated throughout history. Many treaties were formed and then broken as the times changed. For example, Hitler signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with the Soviet Union and then promptly broke it with by invading the Soviet Union after he had conquered all of mainland Europe. One must be careful when pursuing foreign policy.

4) A civilization may be known for millenia through science, culture, or conquest. Empires rise and fall but their achievements are recorded in the history books for ages to admire. Alexander the Great's empire lasted for only a few decades but is known throughout history for its large size. The Mayan empire rose and fell, but their amazing scientific achievements in astronomy are known worldwide and have even affected popular culture (2012 doomsday anyone?). A civilization may fizzle out, but its achievements will last far longer than the civilization itself.

5) As we progress through history, technology may advance or not advance. Now, this may sound like a mundane obvious conclusion that we all could figure out, but this fact that technology advances/does not advance is very obvious in Civ. A highly advanced empire can attack a relatively backwards civ. An civilization with GDRs could attack a civ with musketmen. The flow of technology is not constant. It can stop and even reverse. Barbarians could potentially conquer a highly advanced civilization and the net progress of the world has reversed. Technology fluctuates in advancement.

6) Leaders symbolically live on for centuries. Leaders come, reign, and die. What they achieve however, can immortalize them forever. The leaders you when you choose your civ are known because of their achievements. Sure George Washington is dead, but its what he did for the world that has made him so well known that he leads the America civilization. Leaders can be known forever.

7) Civ teaches us facts about history. From the small intro when you choose a civ, to that civ's UU and UA, Civ V is filled with historical details and information. Someone not knowing anything about the Songhai Empire could learn quite a bit from playing the Songhai civ in Civ V. There's quite a bit of facts in Civ V.

There's probably many other examples of what Civ teaches us about history, but I'm a bit too pressed for time to list others. I think the list I've made is pretty well made. Anyways, I just made it so we can think a bit; a good discussion never hurt anybody and its great to learn about other people's point of view.

[Kevik]

What Civ 5 teaches us about history is in Civilpedia oh wait does Civ5 even have a civilpedia like civ 4 you know where they tell you about all the historical significance on pretty much every leader, unit, building, ect....

[Davor]

4. People actually like losers . Well up to a point. It doesn’t matter if you lose battles or cities but never ever win and conquer other people. It will make your people at home unhappy. The biggest mistake of Rome was to win wars and successfully conquer .

I think Sid or Jon think everyone is Anti Vietnam, or anti Iraq now. Hence when you caputer cities, the conquering country, people get upset. I could never figure that one.

So I guess if Isreal ever gets conquered, all those middle eastern countries are going to be so upset. Weren't Americans so happy at first when the bombs started to go off in Afganistan and Iraq at first?So when you win, you get upset? WTF?!

[psikoticsilver]

I think Sid or Jon think everyone is Anti Vietnam, or anti Iraq now. Hence when you caputer cities, the conquering country, people get upset. I could never figure that one.

So I guess if Isreal ever gets conquered, all those middle eastern countries are going to be so upset. Weren't Americans so happy at first when the bombs started to go off in Afganistan and Iraq at first?So when you win, you get upset? WTF?!

One gaping hole in that argument: the game does not give you a happiness bonus for starting wars.

*edit* Furthermore, I wasn't particularly a happy camper when they started those two wars myself (just stating opinion not trying to start a political discussion), and there were quite a few Americans who were upset , particularly over the Iraq war. I was upset that it started, and I'm upset that they're not really won yet

[Kevik]

One gaping hole in that argument: the game does not give you a happiness bonus for starting wars.

Nor does it give you happiness for winning wars that wern't started by you. No, happy victory dance.

[psikoticsilver]

Never start a fight, but always finish it!... unless everyone annoys you until you stop.

[aeligos]

What Civ V teaches us (whether you want to admit it or not):

1. shared knowledge is power lost
2. isolationism is thwarted by the need for economic growth (ie, a slave will do anything to remain a slave)
3. economic growth is fostered by the mechanism of scarcity (someone/something ultimately determines its parameters, and in this game that person evidently is YOU, the player)
4. prior civilizations (that is many, many centuries prior to 1 AD) knew of planet pluto long before the 20th century satellites/observatories detected it (ie apollo program is nothing new) and 'ancient' ruins are worth fighting for (lends importance to #1)
...and...last but not least...
5. politics is an illusion

(.....aeligos takes a bow.....)

-.-

[Antony_Lee]

here are your claps, aeligos

[Wenla]

This may be more biology than history lesson, but here we are:

- you have to have horses if you like to build camel archers

[Black Gate of Mordor]

4. prior civilizations (that is many, many centuries prior to 1 AD) knew of planet pluto long before the 20th century satellites/observatories detected it (ie apollo program is nothing new) and 'ancient' ruins are worth fighting for (lends importance to #1)

Um... If you're talking about the Mayans here, they were from the 400s to 1500s.

You don't fight for ancient ruins.

And the rest of it is just conspiracy theory.

[Kevik]

Um... If you're talking about the Mayans here, they were from the 400s to 1500s.

You don't fight for ancient ruins.

Acually the Mayans as a great civilization were long gone before the Spanish arived in the 1500s the great Mayan Civilization lasted from 2000BC to 900AD then they all just up and left there cities and Empire became no more.

And you don't fight over ancient ruins because they magiclly dissapper when some one strps on them.

[Black Gate of Mordor]

Acually the Mayans as a great civilization were long gone before the Spanish arived in the 1500s the great Mayan Civilization lasted from 2000BC to 900AD then they all just up and left there cities and Empire became no more.

Mayans still didn't know about Pluto.

[shozum]

What CiV has taught me,

Ghandi is a bloodthirsty warmongering fool who will gangrape you in a heartbeat.

I am the greatest military genius evah! Better than Napolean, Washington, Montezuma and Catherine combined. I should have enrolled at Westpoint.

Riflemen have been around since BC. The secret to creating this weapon of legend resides in abandoned ruins. This and maps.

Gold will buy you everything but a spaceship.

Sacrificing the greatest people of your nation is always the best choice. Lasting effects such as building monuments or academies in their name is not nearly as beneficial as handing them over to the gods at birth.

[Kevik]

What CiV has taught me,

Ghandi is a bloodthirsty warmongering fool who will gangrape you in a heartbeat.

I am the greatest military genius evah! Better than Napolean, Washington, Montezuma and Catherine combined. I should have enrolled at Westpoint.

Riflemen have been around since BC. The secret to creating this weapon of legend resides in abandoned ruins. This and maps.

Gold will buy you everything but a spaceship.

Sacrificing the greatest people of your nation is always the best choice. Lasting effects such as building monuments or academies in their name is not nearly as beneficial as handing them over to the gods at birth.

What Civ 5 taught me

Every one is a bloodthirsty warmongering fool who will gangrape you in a nanosecond.

Everyone but me is a complete military failure who will lose their candy to a baby.

Mech Infantry have been around since 200AD and come from Ruins

Gold buys everything but a spaceship (Sorry no change)

Great people are better used for golden ages then long term options so teaching the next generation means nothing.

I am not mocking I am just recreating a funny post

[shozum]

Heh, great minds think alike

[Kevik]

Heh, great minds think alike

Thank you , thank you, I be here all week.

[MarkAntony]

If you lose half of your armoured corps, just wait around for a few weeks and new, better tanks will magically appear for free.

[aeligos]

Um... If you're talking about the Mayans here, they were from the 400s to 1500s.

You don't fight for ancient ruins.

And the rest of it is just conspiracy theory.

What is "um"? Please define.

I was NOT referring to the Mayan civilization. Recall, I had stated "many, many centuries prior to 1 AD." In fact, I'm referring to the antediluvian era. I suppose I should have been more clear but 'why state the obvious,' I thought.

-.-

[aeligos]

Acually the Mayans as a great civilization were long gone before the Spanish arived in the 1500s the great Mayan Civilization lasted from 2000BC to 900AD then they all just up and left there cities and Empire became no more.

And you don't fight over ancient ruins because they magiclly dissapper when some one strps on them.

Those civilizations did not "up and leave". They, their religious culture and knowledge were removed by the same entity that caused the native american genocide in what was later to become the USA.

-.-

[aeligos]

Mayans still didn't know about Pluto.

You wrongly assumed Mayans...no one else but you had mentioned Mayans in relation to Pluto.

-.-

[Kevik]

Those civilizations did not "up and leave". They, their religious culture and knowledge were removed by the same entity that caused the native american genocide in what was later to become the USA.

-.-

Acually the Mayans the great civilization that had that calander and built pyramids declined in the 900s (only the Mayans not the Aztec or Inca or the native American tribes just the Mayans) because the people got up and left there great cities, and this all occured well before the Spanish came and wiped out the Aztecs and Inca Civilizations. The native American civilizations met their downfall when the English came and settled.

[korvus]

What is "um"? Please define.

I was NOT referring to the Mayan civilization. Recall, I had stated "many, many centuries prior to 1 AD." In fact, I'm referring to the antediluvian era. I suppose I should have been more clear but 'why state the obvious,' I thought.

-.-

Lol. Are you for real? Are you trying to sound like a wanker in every post on purpose? In what book did you read that any "Antediluvian" prehistory culture was aware of Pluto? I'm pretty sure your just pulling this out of your ass but my only guess would be Greer, Morris or some other psuedo-researcher. Seriously.... Where are you getting this information from? Were you on the ark? What evidence is there that any Antediluvian people knew about Pluto?

Also by "antediluvian: are you talking biblical? Atlantis? Black sea? Med? Do you also believe that Antediluvian peoples lived for hundreds of years because I never spotted your name on any biblical genealogy tables.

Just curious.

[Onandoga]

its not a history simulator. i think it says that on the box somewhere actually...

[Soapy]

its not a history simulator. i think it says that on the box somewhere actually...

What would be cool is a world history simulator thing where you can navigate the Earth during certain periods in history and the narrorator can tell you all about the empires that existed during that time

[aeligos]

Lol. Are you for real? Are you trying to sound like a wanker in every post on purpose? In what book did you read that any "Antediluvian" prehistory culture was aware of Pluto? I'm pretty sure your just pulling this out of your ass but my only guess would be Greer, Morris or some other psuedo-researcher. Seriously.... Where are you getting this information from? Were you on the ark? What evidence is there that any Antediluvian people knew about Pluto?

Also by "antediluvian: are you talking biblical? Atlantis? Black sea? Med? Do you also believe that Antediluvian peoples lived for hundreds of years because I never spotted your name on any biblical genealogy tables.

Just curious.

I laugh at your choice of words mister.

If by "wanker" you mean someone who m ast erbates and presume to insult me in that manner, well, I only laugh as it is not insulting. Masturbation is, as any medical peer-reviewed article will show, completely normal and actually somewhat therapeutic if practiced by a couple for mutual gain or singly in a non-abusive manner.

Or if by "wanker" you mean someone who is detestable? Sure. Who isn't detestable?

Regarding research...do you only have access to what your highschool world history teacher told you? If so then that is pretty sad.

-.-

[aeligos]

What would be cool is a world history simulator thing where you can navigate the Earth during certain periods in history and the narrorator can tell you all about the empires that existed during that time

Never mind the navigation of the earth.

I'd rather see what we are not supposed to see.

-.-

[korvus]

I laugh at your choice of words mister.

If by "wanker" you mean someone who m ast erbates and presume to insult me in that manner, well, I only laugh as it is not insulting. Masturbation is, as any medical peer-reviewed article will show, completely normal and actually somewhat therapeutic if practiced by a couple for mutual gain or singly in a non-abusive manner.

Or if by "wanker" you mean someone who is detestable? Sure. Who isn't detestable?

Regarding research...do you only have access to what your highschool world history teacher told you? If so then that is pretty sad.

-.-

I see you avoided all my questions by acting like an idiot as usual.

I ask you again: WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE that a "antediluvian" culture ever knew of Pluto's exsistence?

As for your last deflection, I (unlike you) actually have a University education and continue to study history (and pre-history) constantly so if you want to start pulling random crap out of your ass by looking up "big" words to try and over compensate for your child-like mind, try doing a little research first so you sound alittle less like an idiot.

[Imoen]

Civ 5 as a simulation game about history and building empires to stand the test of time teaches us some valuable lessons neglected in most modern history books.
1. The driving force of history is the need of luxury resources: Give my gold, furs and pearls and we will be happy. This much in line with Theories of Douglas Adams theories that the development of better and more shoes is the driving force of civilization.
2. Leaders of Civilizations are immortal
3. In the beginning there were lots of different civilizations and the number got smaller throughout history.
4. People actually like losers . Well up to a point. It doesn’t matter if you lose battles or cities but never ever win and conquer other people. It will make your people at home unhappy. The biggest mistake of Rome was to win wars and successfully conquer .

haha Pretty funny ino. While I understand its not that easy, and its just to balance the game whatever. You have to admit, they haven't exactly been lucky with those features, not because the not necessarily works, but because they don't make any sense whatsoever. Its hard to make everything realistic etc, but come on! This just crazy dumb

[Jazzterisk]

Civ V teaches me that I cannot trust people from other countries as they will always back stab me in the end.

[Black Gate of Mordor]

I was NOT referring to the Mayan civilization. Recall, I had stated "many, many centuries prior to 1 AD." In fact, I'm referring to the antediluvian era. I suppose I should have been more clear but 'why state the obvious,' I thought.

First, no human on this planet knew of Pluto until the 20th Century, after it was discovered.

Those civilizations did not "up and leave". They, their religious culture and knowledge were removed by the same entity that caused the native american genocide in what was later to become the USA.

When the Spanish found the Mayans, they were a group of tribes in the northern Yucatan peninsula. Their great empire had fallen.

its not a history simulator. i think it says that on the box somewhere actually...

It says it on the box and I'm pretty sure it says it in that box that appears every time you open the game.

What is "um"? Please define.

Wow. Seriously?

[Ash_F]

Funny OP, never thought about the shoe angle.

You know, when I read about history, it always disappointed me how practically all countries basically invade and conquer(aka killing people and taking their stuff). In my eyes it is the same as some low-life mugging people in the street, but on a large scale so worse. It is a huge problem for humanity IMO.

...but then when I load up Civ, I am a total warmonger because I want to win and have a big empire. :P

[shozum]

Funny OP, never thought about the shoe angle.

You know, when I read about history, it always disappointed me how practically all countries basically invade and conquer(aka killing people and taking their stuff). In my eyes it is the same as some low-life mugging people in the street, but on a large scale so worse. It is a huge problem for humanity IMO.

...but then when I load up Civ, I am a total warmonger because I want to win and have a big empire. :P

Large scale mugging...interesting way to look at it!

[Ash_F]

Large scale mugging...interesting way to look at it!

I guess it stems from some kind of human need to be successful, prosperous and prolific. Basically at all costs. Even if it is at the cost of your own honor.