What about if the Agent had normal movement, but just had extra visibility - and maybe slightly tougher too, as I hate it how I'm always loosing my scouts to barbarians.Originally Posted by SlickSlicer
What about if the Agent had normal movement, but just had extra visibility - and maybe slightly tougher too, as I hate it how I'm always loosing my scouts to barbarians.
Hmm? Ah...Chaucer.The country was named from the dye.In the 15th/16th centuries, brazilwood was highly valued in Europe and quite difficult to get.
Quote,
"Him needeth not his color for to dien
With Brazil or with grain of Portingale"
Just out of curiosity, the father of the English literature mentions the dye in the same breath witht the grain of Portugal.
So after thinking for a while i got up with this
Timurid empire
Leader: Timur Lenk
Capital: Samarkand
UA: The Silk Road, decreases tile maintence by 50%
UB: Silk road trade post, replaces market, +2 gold if city is connected to capital (and the regular boni ofcource)
UU: Mongol Heavy Cavalry, replaces knights, +1 movement or Cannon Elephants (elephants with canons ontop), replaces cannon, 3 movement, more strengh, weaker ranged attack, dont have to set up before attacking, penalty vs cities.
Cannon elephants may be OP, Especially as it upgrades into artillery. You could also make the UB a part of the UA (extra gold for trade routes) and make it 2 UUs.
EDIT: could also have a Musket Elephant and make it a replace the lancer, sturdier but less movement
Last edited by cahtush; 06-19-2012 at 03:56 PM.
Would this work?
http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...23567-Tzardoms
For a mod yes.
The Inca have this and much, much more:
Great Andean Road: Units ignore terrain costs when moving into any tile with Hills. No maintenance costs for improvements in Hills; half cost elsewhere.
what about a road bonus that gives you trade income (maybe even more than usual) if your cities are connected to other cities that you don't own? would be particularly useful for city states that ask for a road.
along with that, I imagine such a UA would have to carry a few other economic benefits as well, though.
Maybe connected trade routes give a bonus to LR? That could be very helpful.
Cities connected to your capital get +25% great merchant chance? or extra great merchant points?
Even better! I'm liking this, I must say!
I am really liking the ideas brought out for new civs. Both imaginative and creative. For the Canadian Civ, I love the idea of the Peacekeeper being a UU, but how about it replaces the Paratrooper and gets a defensive bonus the turn after it drops into friendly territory. I love the vanilla Paratrooper unit and getting a unique one would be very intriguing.
Pretty sure 'Cannon Elephants' are an invention of the Total War series, and what the riders actually used were Culverins, which were a pre-cursor to everything from the Musket to siege weapon sized Cannons (as represented in Civ V). They really couldn't of had anything larger than the 'portable' examples on the back of an Elephant give the 'field' version literally weighed tons!
A Lancer replacement as you later suggest is the better option. Even if a Renaissance era elephant does feel a bit silly.
Base strength enhanced, 50% bonus against Mounted, but movement should be less than Cavalry.
elephants for timurids...wat?
Apparently Timur defeated some Indian War Elephants, but like what he saw, got hold of some for himself and started beating up on the Ottomans with them.
See: http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_histo...elephants.html
Whether or not that's a compelling argument to make them their UU is another matter.
Could just be more undue influence from Total War.
A UU paratrooper would be interesting! We could use a few more later game UUs anyway, so it's worth considering.
I like Total War's creative license. They manage to make tons of different factions in their games. However, somehow they give each one something that's aesthetically different and interesting.
So I guess it's not a big surprise that I also like the idea of cannon elephants. Really, they can't do anything else with elephants at this point anyways. While I don't feel that it is something the Timurids are known for, it'd at least be something new. I have to admit that the suggestion surprised me a lot when I first read it though.
Elephant mounted Artillery in Laos, 1893.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_elephant
Sounds like a potentially decent UU for Vietnam if Vietnam ever gets added.
On the other hand, I think they'd be better off giving Vietnam something different from elephants to distinguish them from Siam. However, they could have both the elephant with artillery and another UU as well (fire lancers or huochong).
For Australia:
ANZAC: Replaces Great War infantry: Starts out with the "ANZAC Spirit" promotion, increases culture by 5 and happiness by 1 after you win a battle. Limit 4 battles.
Meaning, these guys are some bad mamajamas when you are trying to go for a culture victory, but were pushed into war by other civilizations. However, it is kept in check by the fact that the bonus is really to late to have much of an effect on culture.
Go number 3
Timurids
Leader Timur Lenk
Capital Samarkand
UA The Silk Road: Connecting CS to your road network gives you gold and get 5-10% faster GM generation (stacks). Trade mission gives 25-50% more gold.
UB Silk road trade post (replaces market): 1 gold and 15% more gold, if you connect it to your capital (or is in your capital) you get +3 extra gold and +20% more gold (ending at 4 gpt + 35% more gpt)
UU Mongol Heavy Cavalry (replaces knight): +1 movement (18srt, 4mov)
Thinking about adding bonus vs wounded to the UU and making it 16str, but that might overlap with the cossak when you upgrade it. And it could get too powerfull as it has 4 movement.
Last edited by cahtush; 06-20-2012 at 04:08 AM.
OK, my idea for Majapahit didn't make the first page last time I posted it, and that was a good move on Black Gate's part because it incorporated ideas from G&K. Now that G&K is out, here's a modified version:
MAJAPAHIT
Leader: Hayam Wuruk
Unique Ability: Domineering Presence. Demand territory from neighboring city-states as tribute at the cost of 10 influence per tile. Lose only one-half the normal amount of influence for demanding other types of tribute.
Unique Building: Candi. Replaces temple. Religions spread to this city 50% faster.
Unique Unit: Pendekar. Replaces longswordsman. +25% combat strength bonus against city-state units. Twice as effective at intimidating city-states into paying tribute (essentially, the CS counts it as two units).
Alernate Unique:
Unique National Wonder: Wayang Kulit. Replaces Heroic Epic. In additon to gaining the Morale promotion, select an available pantheon belief.
Musings: Originally I left out the candi as a UB because we didn't know if there was any incentive for a civ to generate faith if it hadn't founded a religion. Having played it, I've discovered that even when I've founded a religion, I actually still want some of my cities to convert to another civ's religion because its benefits are better-suited (for instance, if I have holy warriors, I may just want that in certain key cities where I have barracks and such). We also now can see how demanding tribute works, and it's actually pretty useful when used judiciously. You run the risk of bankrupting them, so I added the idea of being able to demand land from them if they're sharing a border.
Hopefully now it'll get the Black Gate seal of approval.
Last edited by steveg700; 06-21-2012 at 11:16 AM.
*bump*
Wow did this thread fell behind fast! I know we are now all talking about the expansion, but sooner or later some of us we'll be back here again discussing what other civs we want. I have to say that I'm very happy with the new civs, however I do still want at least a few more...
On that note, these are some I expect to see at some point either via DLCs or a second expansion:
Portugal
Zulu
Sioux
Majapahit
And likely 2 other civs, making the complete number 40, although I'm not sure who's most likely out of the rest at the moment. (Not saying that we will end up on 40, but I do think it's a possibility, and so I'm considering what we might see if that's the case)
The other 2...
Assyria, Israel, Morocco, Vietnam, Tibet, Poland, Kongo, Zimbabwe, Brazil, Inuit, Canada...Take your pick.
I don't like the Tibet that is on the front page. With the new addition of faith I believe it should be changed.
Tibet
Color: Light Blue and White.
Symbol: The Snow Lion.
Capital: Lhasa.
Leader: Songtsän Gampo
Unique Ability: Devout Followers: Tibetans gain all of the beliefs of a religion that spreads into their border. This means they get the founder and pantheon belief instead of just the follower belief.
Unique Unit: Monk: Replaces Missionary: Does not lose strength in foreign territory, and can spread 3 times without the Great Mosque of Djenne. However cannot cross over into foreign lands without open borders.
Unique Building: Dzong: Replaces Castle: +2 faith, +2 strength for each mountain near by.
Alt: -15% less matinence on buildings, +2 faith.
Alt: +25% city strength if they are next to a mountain, river, or hill. +2 faith.
Alternative Unique Ability: Sacred Mountains: +1 Food, production, and faith from every mountain nearby.
Alternative Unique Ability: <Currently doesn't have a name>: Shrines produce 8 faith instead of 6. You can build mines on top of mountains which grant about the same production as hills with mines do.
Alternative Unique Ability: Battle of the Five Lamas: All units gifted by City States have +1 strength, Declarations of Friendship give 20 faith.
Alternative Unique Ability: <Currently has no name>: Inquisitors don't work against you, however you cannot make them yourself, Missionaries don't lose faith in foreign territory.
Alternative Unique Ability: Defenders of the Mountains: Can purchase all units with faith. -25% less faith to purchase units than Holy Warriors. +25% More gold to purchase Military Units. Units get +10% defensive bonus next to a mountain.
Alternative Unique Unit: Dzong Archers: Replaces Composite Bowman: Starts with indirect fire.
Alternative Unique Unit: Kham Warriors: Replaces Swordsman: Starts with Drill I and Drill II. Penalty fighting in foreign lands.
Alternative Unique Unit: Warrior Monk: Replaces Longswordsman: After taking a city, the city converts to your religion.
Alternative Unique Building: Stupa: Replaces Temple: +3 faith and +1 culture. Additional culture from Mountains.
Alternative Unique Unit: Lama: Replaces Great Prophet: Can build a special building called the Stupa (If this is without the Stupa as a Unique Building) in a city. Same states as the Stupa above.
With the Stupa: Can conduct a "Holy Mission" in city state territory. Grants the same influence as a trade mission and gives you 300 faith.
Yes, this is a lot of Stuff. Some may be overpowered, I dunno. I was really just throwing out suggestions here. I could throw out a million more.
To be quite honest, if they do Tibet right it won't be controversial.
Seal applied. This looks better than anything else we've got so far.
I'd not put the Zulu in (personal preference) and put Assyria, Israel, Vietnam, and Poland in instead. Maybe Tibet.
Can you try and group stuff together? It's easier to tell whether or not something's OP if we can group them into suitable powers.
I feel like the first one I have is the best.
Tibet
Color: Light Blue and White.
Symbol: The Snow Lion.
Capital: Lhasa.
Leader: Songtsän Gampo
Unique Ability: Devout Followers: Tibetans gain all of the beliefs of a religion that spreads into their border. This means they get the founder and pantheon belief instead of just the follower belief.+1 production +1 food from Mountain tiles.
Unique Building: Stupa: Replaces Temple: +3 faith and +1 culture. Additional culture from Mountains.
Unique Building: Dzong: Replaces Castle: +2 faith +2 strength for each mountain near by.
Final product.
They are great for spreading religion, settling in mountain ranges, and defending their territory. I think that they may get a little to much faith, but religion kinda drops off after half the game so...
Last edited by PachaMinnie; 06-23-2012 at 07:45 AM.
It's not clear how it works; what is "a religion that spreads into their border"? If one of their cities has at least one follower of a foreign religion the UA activates? Or only if it becomes their majority religion?
Anyway, with 2 Faith UB, the player is probably going to focus in religion and found his own, so the UA may not be so useful.
Also, you already get the pantheon belief of foreign religions (when someone found a religion, the pantheon becomes one of its belief), so the UA is only about the founder belief.
Huh, okay.
You get all the bonuses the founder of a foreign religion would get. Even if the religion is the minority, you still get the benefits.
Perhaps a Unique Unit would be better than the Stupa...
I tried to stay unbiased when listing those civs (Luckily I really believe the Sioux have a good chance, and they are my favourite). They are the ones I believe are most likely to make it - and I agree that Assyria should definitely be added, but I see it as still unlikely, even though possible. Vietnam, Tibet and Israel would be very nice as well, but Poland I'm not so excited about. I'd still like to see Portugal anyway, but I don't feel the need for much more attention in Europe.
Yeah...a lot of these were done in the months following the original release of Civ V...many of the Civs here could use a serious overhaul.
I take it upon myself to redo Portugal!
Portugal
Leader: Joao II
UA: Remember the Navigator. Discovery of new continents triggers a golden age. Double length if you are first to discover. Intercontinental trade routes are worth +2 gold.
UU: Carrack, replaces Galleass. Can enter ocean squares, +1 sight, and confers its movement to embarked units stacked with it. Can build Feitoria unique improvement.
UI: Feitoria. Can only be built on other continents. Projects your borders on surrounding tiles. +25% combat bonus to fortified units, and bonus healing to all friendly units in surrounding tiles. Can only be built by Carracks. Destroyed if an enemy unit enters tile.
Eager to see if I get the BGoM stamp of approval on this one!
good on paper but very sketchy in an actual game. What exactly constitutes a "continent?" How many tiles does a "continent" consist of? How would this even work on maps like pangaea?Discovery of new continents triggers a golden age.
I still like the idea of giving Portugal a bonus for every 10-20% of the map they explore. I dunno what that bonus should be, but it makes the most logical sense to me, even if it is again highly oriented around map type (or map size, in this case).
I proposed ideas for Portugal on a previous page. My basic idea was to give them a bonus from exploring ruins and city-states. This early exploration UA bonus would help counter-balance the fact that they'd likely receive their unique features much later in the game. Nobody else in the game gets a bonus from exploring ruins, so it makes sense to me that some civ should have one.
Hawk also proposed an idea on this matter which, although I disputed earlier, I now think is actually pretty sound. In addition to having such a UA, Portugal could also potentially have a Bandeirantes UU that serves as a scout replacement. However, the carrack and feitoria are good ideas too.
These, however, are wonderful ideas. I think your ideas for carracks and feitoria were much better than mine, even if they do do sort of take the wind out of the sails of Polynesia. Unfortunately, your feitoria idea suffers from the same vagueness about what constitutes a "continent." I would just remove that qualifier entirely and then you have a good unique improvement. A unique improvement that improves border growth would be pretty neat.UU: Carrack, replaces Galleass. Can enter ocean squares, +1 sight, and confers its movement to embarked units stacked with it. Can build Feitoria unique improvement.
UI: Feitoria. Can only be built on other continents. Projects your borders on surrounding tiles. +25% combat bonus to fortified units, and bonus healing to all friendly units in surrounding tiles. Can only be built by Carracks. Destroyed if an enemy unit enters tile.
Here was my earlier template:
*-For the underlined the idea is more my point than the actual number. I'm rather terrible at math so I can't figure out if this is underpowered or overpowered. If underpowered, you could apply it to all of Portugal's cities. If overpowered, you could just remove it and let them keep their early bonus.Portugal
Leader: Henry the Navigator
UA Pioneers of Discovery*: Ruins give 2 separate bonuses rather than 1 and city-states provide you with 2x as much gold when you first encounter them. [Addendum now that I've played gods & kings: Religious city-states could give additional faith as well]For every 10% of the map you explore, receive +1 culture per turn in your capital.*
UU Carrack: Replaces caravel. May initiate both ranged and melee attacks. Spawns great admirals at double the rate.
UB Feitoria: Replaces harbor. In addition to the usual harbor benefits, it costs no gold to maintain, gives +3 defense and all luxury resource tiles in the city's range yield an extra +1 gold.
In the Map Editor, there are tilesets for 4 different continents. Finding one of these new tilesets would be the trigger. I don't imagine it would be hard for the game to figure out if you're looking at a new continent. Its much the same process Spain uses for its Conquistadors, which can only build cities on continents away from your capital.
The problem with the 10% of map bonus, i feel, is that it varies so much depending on mapsize. On duel you might get a huge culture bonus extreamly early while on huge it will be nigh useless.
I think that we will need to re-do a lot of Civilizations to account for the new units and religious aspect of the game. I did Tibet. *Yey*
I agree. If such a bonus were to be implemented, it would possibly have to scale by map size or something.
But not every map have more than 1 continent. I believe this is the case of Pangea, for instance. So it's not a good idea to have all 3 UC relying on it.
The Portuguese civ someone suggested (I believe it was steveg700, I can be wrong) was a nice one:
With some adjustments to incorporate G&K's units and mechanisms it becomes even better. For instance, the Carrack could replace the Galleass as you suggested, being able to enter ocean tiles earlier, but with a bonus regarding City-States instead that '+1 movement to stacked embarked units' (embarked units wouldn't be able to move through ocean anyway).
About the UI, Feitoria, maybe you're missing it's purpose: "The Portuguese "feitorias" were mostly fortified trading posts settled in coastal areas, built to centralize and thus dominate the local trade of products with the Portuguese kingdom (and thence to Europe). They served simultaneously as market, warehouse, support to the navigation and customs and were governed by a "Feitor" (factor) responsible for managing the trade, buying and trading products on behalf of the king and collecting taxes".
Mixing up your ideas, steveg700's and SlickSlicer's:
Portugal
UA: Never Sailed Seas; Astronomy provides a free Great Merchant, and missions to City-States grants increased influence and gold. When a city declares "We love the King day", the Capital receives a bonus sum of Great Merchant points.
UU: Carrack; Replaces Galleass. Can enter ocean tiles. +1 Visibility Range. When a carrack discovers a city-state, the capital receives Great Merchant points equal to their gift of gold.
UB: Feitoria; Replaces Harbor. Costs no maintenance. +3 Defense. Has 1 Merchant Specialist Slot.
Double post.
Usually, the outlying islands are a different continent. Yes, Pangaea kind of sucks for Portugal, but a lot of civs are crap on Pangaea as it is (England, Ottomans, Polynesia, Denmark). This wouldn't be anything new.
As for the Feitoria idea, your description is exactly what I'm trying to capture. Place one on the coast near some resources and they become yours to develop (or at least lay claim to) since your borders are projected to it. It also provides a defensive bonus and healing to surrounding units. Feitorias were basically safe points for explorers and traders as well as trading posts.
Let me retry Tibet, because I've been learning more about them and different ways they can work.
TIBET
Symbol: Snow Lion.
Capital: Lhasa
Second City: Xigaze
Third City: Amdo
Fourth City: Nagqu
Fifth City: Gyantse Dzong
Sixth City: Ü-Tsang
Seventh City: Kham
Eighth City: Ngamring
Ninth City: Tingri
Tenth City: Gar
Leader: Songtsän Gampo
Colors: Cyan & White
Unique Ability: Mountain Nation: Mountains around your city provide +1 culture, faith, food, and production. Declaration of Friendship provides 15 culture, and a defensive pact provides 35.
Unique Unit: Khampa Warriors: Replaces Cavalry: Ignores Rough Terrain Cost, starts with Blitz.
Unique Building: Dzong Fortress: Replaces Castle: +2 faith and +1 culture.
Khampa Warriors: http://www.harrerportfolio.com/Khampa.html
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-...25.25,.28,.351
http://tibetanhistory-20thcentury.wi...rs,+six+ranges
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kham
Dzong Fortress: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyantse_Dzong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigatse_Dzong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzong_architecture
Songtsan Gampo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songsten_Gampo
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/city...tsen-gampo.htm
http://www.rangjung.com/authors/King_Songtsen_Gampo.htm
Snow Lion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emblem_of_Tibet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Lion
Tibetan Empire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet
What do you think?
Last edited by PachaMinnie; 06-26-2012 at 12:37 AM.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK you can't work Mountains (except Natural Wonders), not to mention there's not always that many of them so perhaps the tile bonus would be better suited to those adjacent to Mountains?
Edit:It might be nice to double-down the need for Mountains, and make the Dzong dependant on it too, but the only building I can think off is the Observatory which probably comes too late for a Faith-focused building. not to mentioned you'd need to work the relationship with the Science boost, I'd be incline to have some or all of it traded away for Faith and/or Culture a bit like the Austrian Coffee House does with Production and Great People.
Last edited by Oosh; 06-26-2012 at 12:37 AM.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
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