True enough, how bout Artic Circle, or or oh I give upOriginally Posted by Polar Bear
True enough, how bout Artic Circle, or or oh I give up
@Black Gate of Mordor
The specialist for the Mayan ball court was intended to be an in-game decision, whether or not you wanted to specialize in culture or science. I guess if you picked one, then go with the scientist. Or to balance it out (since science gives you culture anyway) one scientist or two artists.
Vietnam UA name- "Jungle Insurgents"
For the Netherlands, my vote goes to the Paltrok mill, since we don't have anything listed for the Dike as a UI. And for the UA, I like United EIC, but given how wonky diplomacy is right now, its hard to cast my vote for it. If it weren't for that, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Traders of the Sea seems somewhat bland, unfortunately, but that's what I'm voting for.
Portugal has two very interesting UA's. To add more exploration incentive, make the bonus just +1 gold (since +2 is a lot for just one tile), but +3 for tiles no one has discovered. So, I guess you could say I support the first UA.
Given that the Mali were just in Civ IV, its surprising that they are "forgotten". Lets add em in:
Mali:
Leader- Mansa Musa
Capital- Timbuktu
UA- "Sub-Saharan Gold Mine"-Mines have a slight chance of discovering Gold or Silver. Higher chance of starting nearby gold or silver. Unit maintenance costs (inflation) decreased by 25%.
UU- Skirmisher, replaces Archer; significantly increased strength up close and afar, but only one range. Normal cost.
UB- Gold-smith, replaces workshop; +25% gold produced in the city, not +15% production. No maintenance, but more expensive to build.
No one has said Mexico yet!?
Mexico
Leader possibility #1: Antonio López de Santa Anna (Santa Anna for short)
OR
Leader possibility #2: Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla (Miguel Hidalgo for short)
Capital: Mexico City
UA possibility #1: "Grito de Dolores" +33% military land unit production during war with foreign empire. Rebel forces appear at -12 happiness, not -20.
UU: "Zapatista" replaces rifleman. Cost 150, not 200. Strength 22, not 25. Ignores terrain movement penalty, +25% attack when fighting on hills.
UU: "Caudillo" replaces great general. Same bonuses as regular GG, but does not die when being killed in combat, just sent back to the capital. Can only be lost when building the GG's improvement or golden age. Golden ages began by Caudillos are 100% longer.
That sounds like it fits. Well, maybe the UA is a bit too good, any ideas?
Last edited by Floating Pants; 02-13-2011 at 11:05 AM.
Here's an idea for a capital city for the Sioux...
Sioux Falls.
You put a lot of thought into that didn't you. Good work
More for Tibet:
UU: (as from a Civilization 3 scenario) Warrior Monk (possibly replacing Pikemen).
UB: Tibetan Monastery. Monasteries have always been of huge importance in Tibet, and are the most obvious building choice for them. This building would have an extra cultural bonus.
Tibet:
UU- Warrior Monk, replaces swordsmen; +50% defensive bonus, -25% attack bonus.
UB- Stupa (A Buddhist place of worship), replaces Temple; +3 culture for every mountain, +1 culture per turn than normal.
UA-"Nonviolence"-Any nation that attacks Tibet takes 1 unhappiness for every turn the war is maintained.
For an Australian UA, how about "Penal Colony"-+50% population growth, but +20% unhappiness from population. Its only an idea, so if you don't like it, I understand. An alternative is "Indigenous Culture"-Captured Barbarian Camps offer culture as well as gold. Culture buildings in other cities aren't destroyed upon Australian conquest.
Thanx for your help with Tibet! I still think that their UB should be more related to their very iconic Monasteries, that can be found absolutely everywhere throughout Tibet. Monasteries also played a big roll in family life, for during one time period, it was pretty much expected for each family to send one son to a Monastery.
I like the "Nonviolence" UA, since that seems to be the theme for Tibet.
Interesting idea for the Australian UA as well! I'd probably go with the first one of the two, yet the +20% unhappiness is pretty bad.
I strayed from a monastery UB since there is a monastery building already in the game. Though after a bit of research, the Buddhist equivalent of a monastery is called a Vihara, so I guess it COULD replace the Monastery. It gains a culture bonus from incense, still, but instead of a culture bonus from wine, it gets a smaller bonus from hills and mountains. An extension of the UA I thought of in class today was that any nation that controlled Tibet's capital took 5 Unhappiness until it is returned to Tibet, on top of its normal ability. After all, China is STILL taking a lot of flak for annexing Tibet and not allowing them any independence.
20% is just a random number I pulled. I don't mind if you feel like modifying it to balance things out. I was kinda worried Australians might not like it, actually. That's why I pitched a second UA. But since you like the first one a lot more, then I guess I have nothing to worry about.
Vihara sounds good to me.I strayed from a monastery UB since there is a monastery building already in the game. Though after a bit of research, the Buddhist equivalent of a monastery is called a Vihara, so I guess it COULD replace the Monastery. It gains a culture bonus from incense, still, but instead of a culture bonus from wine, it gets a smaller bonus from hills and mountains. An extension of the UA I thought of in class today was that any nation that controlled Tibet's capital took 5 Unhappiness until it is returned to Tibet, on top of its normal ability. After all, China is STILL taking a lot of flak for annexing Tibet and not allowing them any independence.
20% is just a random number I pulled. I don't mind if you feel like modifying it to balance things out. I was kinda worried Australians might not like it, actually. That's why I pitched a second UA. But since you like the first one a lot more, then I guess I have nothing to worry about.
Maybe the Australian UA "Penal Colony" is something like +10% unhappiness for every new city for 20 turns, and during those 20 turns they have the population boost happening as well. What do you think of that?
What's the point of adding more civs when the game and AI is to terrible?
This thread is not for complaints about the game.
Actually, I think the second one is worse (historically) for Australia. The second one seems fairly good, but I would go with Hawk's suggestion of a time limit. It'd mean we'd have to have another part for Australia, but I like it.20% is just a random number I pulled. I don't mind if you feel like modifying it to balance things out. I was kinda worried Australians might not like it, actually. That's why I pitched a second UA. But since you like the first one a lot more, then I guess I have nothing to worry about.
Perhaps something relating to celebrating a lost battle or having your own weather rating.
Outstanding read. Great ideas all around. I would personally enjoy the Sioux in the game, but I believe the Inuit would be an awesome addition. Having tundra and ice bonuses would create unique opportunities for utilizing maps and starting conditions.
Wait...so you DON'T like the UA "Indigenous Culture, but you DO like the UA "Penal Colony"? Anyway, I like the idea of a time limit, since Australia obviously isn't used for that anymore. Maybe as an added part to the UA, Open Borders with other civs increases city growth by 10%, and those who have Open Borders with Australia get +5 happiness?
Glad to see yet another fan of the Inuit. They are the civilization I am pushing for the most.
'Indigenous Culture' does not make sense historically. The Australian settlers were generally not interested in Aboriginal culture, rather they had a more Imperialistic outlook.
Eh, that was was a more modern spin on the Australians, since they have a very unique culture given the European and Aboriginal culture influences. But I can respect that. I'd prefer the first UA, myself.
Actually, Australian history reflects America's Manifest Destiny. The British had New South Wales (all of Australia minus WA) and then they 'annexed' Western Australia for fear of Dutch annexation (American claims of Oregon and the Great Plains). Imperialistic, but instead of people heading west to try and find the Pacific, they headed inland (and refused Aboriginal help) to try and find the great inland sea and where all the rivers ended.
edit: Actually, that UA still doesn't really reflect modern Australia either. All I know about Aboriginal culture is that 'The Dreamtime' is basically a time before humans and that there is a 'Rainbow Serpent'.
edit edit: and bunyips and yowies
Also, your suggestion sounds somewhat familiar. Isn't the second bit pretty much the Netherlands UA?
Last edited by Black Gate of Mordor; 02-16-2011 at 01:48 AM.
The Aborigine culture is barely visible in Westernised Australia - you have to travel to rural Northern Territory, or rural north Western Australia to see it properly, in fact almost no one can speak Koori just about anywhere else. It is unfortunate, but due to racism that still exists strongly today, anything Koori is rarely given much credit at all, unless it involves tourism (aka money). I was astonished when I discovered that most people I knew had no idea what a Bunyip or a Yowie is, and they all grew up in Australia. Another sad things is that you hardly ever see Koori people in Victoria or in NSW, or Tasmania (although that's probably because they were all wiped out in Tassy). There are more Sudanese people in Victoria than Aborigines.
Spoken from an Australian, I'm definitely cool from that. So, the first UA is definitely best. Any ideas for a UU/UB?
Hmm... About my Mexico post I made a few pages back, I've rethought a few things.
Reduce the golden age bonus from Caudillos to 50% longer, 100% is a bit too good.
Perhaps if we were to create a UB and UU rather than double UU. The UB would be as follows:
Maquiladora, replaces factory. Maquiladoras are large factories in Latin American countries in which major companies relocate there for cheaper labor. They are an enormous boost to the Mexican economy, being located mainly along the American border. Same production cost and production bonuses as factory, but +4 gold generated by the city for each foreign civ with open borders agreement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquiladora
If we were to do this and remove a UU, I'd say the Zapatista. Caudillos are more famous, and they were the actually leaders who fought against foreign empires. Zapaitstas were like rebels, fighting against the Mexican federalist government of their time.
The Unfinished List
This is the list of everything that isn't finished yet.
LEADERS
Morocco
Phoenicia
UA
Morocco
Hebrews
Australia
UU/UB/UI
Morocco
Hittites (UB)
Australia
Poland-Lithuania (UB)
Note: All capitals are now implemented into the list
Run me kangaroo down:
Roads give +1 food thanks to roadkill.
UU: Ned Kelly +2 defence +25% Pillage (replaces musketeer)
UB: Pub +1 Gold, +1 Happy (replaces temple)
UI: Hunter Valley (Wine production doubled)
Very funny!
Your "Ned Kelly" UU did give me an idea though...Bushrangers! :P
Pub's good too, but even though Australia is one of the most religiously apathetic countries in the world, I wouldn't quite replace the temple.
On a more serious note though, I think it'd be better fitted to give the Aussies a more modern UU, or not far off, like the Diggers (Australian soldiers).
I was always under the impression the pub is where the Australian goes to meet his gods, and is one of the more, ahem, philosophical places. Definitely replace temple.
Last edited by tfordp; 02-21-2011 at 01:32 AM. Reason: Spelling
Most Aussies don't go anywhere to meet and discuss religion...they are just too apathetic. Second thoughts sure, replace the temple! :PI was always under the impression the pub is where the Australian goes to meet his gods, and is one of the more, ahem, philosophical places. Definitely replace temple.
No, most Aussies do go to the pub to discuss 'religion'. Just not a traditional religion.
Also, on a more serious note, the Australian civ has been updated with suggestions from an Australian Mod I found in CFC.
Also, now you can create strategies for the civs that have already been completed. If we can't come up with one, then obviously the civ has to be changed.
Being Australian myself, I had a good laugh at the 'Pub' replacing temple, for better or worse we are associated with heavy drinking - who else would be stupid enough to vote in a world record holding drinker as Prime Minister? Just do not make him our leader please, but perhaps I am just showing my political colours?
As for a UU, I think the SAS would be a good one, we may not have invented them but even you 'yanks' (said with the greatest affection) recognised their expertise (particularly in desert warfare) on your latest misadventures into the middle-east.
Back to the UB, how about a Brewery? Since there is no Barely resource, it good be built when a city has Wheat and provides extra Happiness or something?
For Africa:
Carthage-Domination; Science. During wartime, your ships get a ranged combat bonus, so use it to you advantage to pummel down your foes on the high seas. And given that in peace time you get a happiness bonus from every ship, you should have a huge navy to back you up. Plus, the Cothon will help you churn out ships faster and keep them in fighting shape, as well as providing a nice monetary boost for overseas trade. If you stay at peace, use the golden ages you'll get from your navy to quickly build up the space ship parts. Those are always super expensive.
Ethiopia- Domination. Ethiopia gets Golden Ages very quickly, but they don't last quite as long as normal. To compensate, the Stele provides extra GA points for every one built, and the Oromo Warrior gets free GA points for every kill. It also helps that the Oromo warrior has extra strength, meaning it will be a lot harder to kill off your army. To maximize the effect of the Oromo warrior, you need to stay at war so the Golden Ages will keep flowing. Since a lot of the GA points come from war, it will be a little harder to go for the space race, so use the excess production to keep the war effort going and allowing for near endless chains of quick golden ages.
Zululand-Domination. The Zulu are terrifyingly powerful early in the game. Each unit in unfriendly territory causes unhappiness to that country, so capitalize on unhappy nations to wreak havoc and chaos upon your foes! The Impi is faster than normal and gets a combat bonus against anything slower that it is. This means its more powerful than just about everything early on (since it still gets a combat bonus versus mounted units). Add this to the Ikhanda, which cuts down on city maintenance costs, and you have a super potent fighting force. Even late in the game, the Zulu can still be a fearsome opponent, since you'll likely have much greater city maintenance costs, and messing with people's happiness can really cause trouble for them.
And a few Europeans:
Austria-Domination, Cultural. To make full use of Austria's ability, you need to do at least some conquering. Once you get a hold of an enemy city, their unique units and buildings are yours to use now. Obviously, taking a mixed army of Janissaries alongside Samurai and some Naresuan's Elephants thrown in for good measure will make you a feared fighting force for all to remember. That being said, you don't have to completely conquer someone to be able to utilize their uniques, so after you've acquired a city or two, you can settle down and focus on more peaceful endeavors. The Concert Hall UB sports an enormous culture boost, and if you happen to pick up any cities with a cultural UB, this can be a huge asset towards earning you a culture victory.
Holy Roman Empire-Diplomacy, Domination. Holy Rome gets a small production boost towards units for every CS that they are allied with. This can be taken one of two ways; either use that boost to churn out huge armies to crush the world, or keep allying with CS's to secure a diplomatic victory. Swiss Guards can only be acquired by alliance with a militaristic CS, but the benefit is enormous. Imperial Swiss Guards are free, have no maintenance, and are significantly stronger than normal pikemen, so its still in your best interest to make a few CS allies. Should you go on the offensive, the Rathaus is a cheaper version of the courthouse and yields a happiness bonus (despite costing a bit more to maintain), helping you keep your advance moving. One thing about Holy Rome is that you can build both your uniques AND their normal counterparts, giving you a lot of options as to how to run your country.
Celts-Culture. The Celts are a highly defensive nation, as the Dun provides increased defense for every forest or hill tile in the city radius, and their soldiers get a combat bonus in the same terrain. Quickly grab up as much land as you can, and DON'T chop down any forests, as they are your livelihood. The culture bonus from just a few forests will put you out ahead in the culture game very early on, so this will provide a strong incentive to pursue culture for the rest of the game. Domination is a possibility, but your safezones are hills and forests. Leave those and you are in serious trouble. For the most part, sticking to defense allows you to focus more on what you are best at, culture.
Huns-Domination. The Huns will be a menace early in the game. Their Nomad can defend itself and moves faster, allowing you to safely settle areas very quickly and secure valuable resources for yourself. The Horse archer makes a fantastic raider to help pick off barbarians or to antagonize your foes without being attacked too much. PLUS, any city that does not have at least a city wall means that your mounted units do not take the normal combat penalty for attacking cities. It is to your advantage to search for newly founded cities and then sweep them up with your cavalry so you can take them for your own. The other half of the Hunnic UA gives you substantial boosts to food and production as well, meaning you can quickly build a very wide empire with no trouble at all.
Netherlands-Science, Diplomacy. The Dutch are masters of commerce and industry. With their significant bonuses to gold from their UA and the East Indianman getting free gold equal to its strength for every attack, you will quickly be swimming in the money. The Paltrok mill gives you free production for every farm, so your cities will likely be incredibly large AND highly productive. Use this financial and productive strength to set yourself up for a science victory, as winning by science is never cheap. On the other hand, you can easily put that excess gold into buying your way into city states, allowing you to reap their rewards and set yourself up for an easy diplomatic win.
Last edited by mwallyn; 02-25-2011 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Added Europe
Thanks for those mwallyn. They're under Strategy, which brings me to my next point.
The thread now has colours so it's easier to read (especially with the strategy posts).
Strategy is Plum.
Domination is Dark Red.
Diplomacy is Yellow-Green.
Science is Deep Sky Blue.
Culture is Dark Orchid.
If these colours are too difficult to read (such as Domination) please tell me. Also, what colour should other things be? (such as UU and UBs)
Also, Morroco still has absolutely nothing for it. And Phoenicia has no leader.
A few random Civs:
Portugal-Any. Portugal doesn't really have a specific victory they should win. Their one quest is to explore the world as fast as possible, for every tile discovered is worth 1 gold (3 if you are the first to find it). You can do a lot of things with this money, such as buying up the land around your cities, buying a settler or two, or financing a large army early on. Use the money how ever you please, but building more scouts and caravels means you'll earn your exploration money even faster, and the longer you wait to go discovering, the more likely any given tile will be discovered, so bear that in mind. To further finance your exploration, the Feitoria gives you the normal gold boost like a bank, but gives you a substantial food bonus, too, helping your cities and colonies alike to grow. The Carrack UU also bestows extra movement to all embarked units within 2 tiles, so use it to blaze a trail across the ocean to discover new lands!
Norse-Domination. The Norse are in their element at sea. Coastal cities are at your mercy, since all Norse units get a combat bonus when attacking from the sea instead of a penalty. To help clear the way for your seagoing armies, the Longboat becomes stronger if it is next to its target. Also, the longboat makes an excellent explorer, as it can move up to two tiles away from the coast. Use it to your advantage to find new lands to settle. Once you do, the Trading port acts like a normal harbor, but you get +10% more gold from overseas trade routes. Your best approach as the Norse is to build overseas to maximize your profit from trade routes and to get a sizable combat bonus when attacking over water.
Tibet-Culture. Tibet is a master of defense. Their Warrior Monks get an enormous defensive bonus, but are weak on e attack, and Tibet is generally biased to hills and mountains at the beginning of the game. Their Stupa UB is their replacement to a temple, and it gets increased base culture AND free culture for every mountain tile in the city's radius. If you are in a particularly mountainous area, this can rack up some serious culture. Being generally defensive, you are free to pursue whatever peaceful goals you wish, so reasonably you can pursue Diplomatic and Science victories as well. No one will want to mess with you, as to make it all worse, Civilizations attacking you take -1 happiness for every turn they maintain the war.
Maya-Culture, Science. Mayans get a little extra science from jungles, but the real story is that 15% of their science output is converted to culture. You can look at this one of two ways; more science means free culture for you to quickly snatch up a culture win, or the culture is just an incentive to supercharge your science output. Either way, you want to build up your science output. Such a heavy focus on science means that you will easily reach the end of the tech tree to build your space ship. Of course, if you also build culture buildings alongside your science, then you will be in position to pick up culture win very quickly. The Ballcourt UB helps further your science/culture gains, having either a scientist or artist slot alongside the normal happiness boost. The spearman replacement, the Holkan, is a bit stronger than normal and gets the first rough terrain promotion, so use it to protect your holdings early on. Otherwise, the Maya don't have too much in the way of military.
I'm curious to know what you mean by that? Whenever I've gone to a pub, I've never heard people discussing religion before (although, to be fair, I haven't been to that many pubs).
I have spoken to a few who have gone overseas, and they have told me that people tend to be notably more religious in other countries, at least in comparison to Australia.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think he's being a little tongue-in-cheek about it. Though, I'm only 20 and never been off the continent, so what do I know about Australian Pubs?
@Hawk: I believe BGoM was most likely either referring to our state religion; sport, or simply that we worship beer.
@mwallyn: The only recent personal experience in Pubs I have had outside Australia is in the UK. Ours are not a great deal different, only the beer is colder, fizzier, and in most cases of a far inferior quality. There I have said it. The national obsession with cheap lager (especially that foul brew that has the temerity to call itself a bitter) is a terrible shame but one that is thankfully beginning to turn around even though we do not have fine institutions like CAMRA to raise standards.
My 2, off-topic, cents.
Edit: I must say my limited experience with American beer has been less than spectacular. Only decent stuff I came across was Samuel Adams Boston Ale, your Budweiser borders on being a war-crime when compared to its namesake Czech stuff, but I am sure there is some decent being produced (likely by the smaller players as here) out there, somewhere.
Still no Phoenician ruler? How about Pygmalion of Tyre? He shifted the empire's trade from the Middle East to the Mediterranean. He is the brother of Dido, and wouldn't it be pretty cool if they added Dido and Pygmalion, two siblings.
If not him, then Ithobaal would work. He established some of the first Phoenician overseas colonies.
Couldn't have explained it better than myself. Beer tends to be a "god" common to most peoples.@Hawk: I believe BGoM was most likely either referring to our state religion; sport, or simply that we worship beer.
@mwallyn: The only recent personal experience in Pubs I have had outside Australia is in the UK. Ours are not a great deal different, only the beer is colder, fizzier, and in most cases of a far inferior quality. There I have said it. The national obsession with cheap lager (especially that foul brew that has the temerity to call itself a bitter) is a terrible shame but one that is thankfully beginning to turn around even though we do not have fine institutions like CAMRA to raise standards.
My 2, off-topic, cents.
Edit: I must say my limited experience with American beer has been less than spectacular. Only decent stuff I came across was Samuel Adams Boston Ale, your Budweiser borders on being a war-crime when compared to its namesake Czech stuff, but I am sure there is some decent being produced (likely by the smaller players as here) out there, somewhere.
Again, I'm only 20, so I have precisely zero experience with beer or bars/pubs. From what friends have said, most American beers are just "watered-down p***". As for me, I have no idea what's good and what's not, so don't take my word for anything.
Hey, I don't think we've discussed Palmyra as a possible new civ (even if we decide against them, we should still discuss them first): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...ome_271_AD.svg, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmyra#History
Leader: Zenobia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:He...lz-Zenobia.jpg
Capital: Palmyra
Need a little help with the uniques though.
In the 13 years their splinter empire lasted I'm not sure how much you can tease out.
However, the wiki entry on the Battle of Immae (which they lost) states:Emphasis is mine, and highlights potential UU and UA (i.e. make them a sort of Iroquois of the desert?).Both armies took the field near Antioch at Immae in traditional battle formations with infantry in the center and cavalry on the flanks. Zabdas had two big advantages at his disposal; first was the superiority of his cataphracts and the second was the extreme heat the Romans were not adapted to.
Edit: I see Byzantium got to the Cataphract first. Well from the wiki entry on the Battle of Emesa (which they also lost):Clibanarii are in their respective article described as:As at Immae, the Palmyrene heavy cavalry (the clibanarii) was superior to the Roman equivalent.Similar to the cataphracti, the horsemen themselves and their horses were fully armoured.The Clibanarii were used mostly by Eastern armies; for example, they were used by the Palmyrene Empire, and fought against the Roman cavalry at Immae and Emesa. Sassanids employed Clibanarii in their western armies, mainly against the Eastern Roman empire. They were more heavily armoured than their Byzantine counterparts.
Last edited by Oosh; 02-27-2011 at 08:00 PM.
Black Gate of Mordor, you better highlight Polynesia now, since they are to be added very soon.
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