That is annoying - really wish they would strip out the GFWL stuff from the Steam version, but at least it will work. Thanks for the answer!
That is annoying - really wish they would strip out the GFWL stuff from the Steam version, but at least it will work. Thanks for the answer!
Beautifully put. I checked back here for the first time today after a long absence ands read the last thirty or so posts. I find that this thread once again tells me absolutely nothing. Except of course that 2K has a policy of not communicating with its customers and throwing up entirely spurious reasons for not doing so.Originally Posted by Zuzax
Before some franboy is tempted to tell me to be patient, please, don't bother as I won't be checking this site ever again. In fact, feel quite free to castigate me if you spot me on. And yes, I also do know that there are more important things in life than Bioshock patches or the status of a DLC playlist (chortle). One of these things is my time and also yours dear reader. Stop looking at this tripe: it's going nowhere.
Finally I wish you all a very Merry Christmas. Even the kind soul who will no doubt shortly be wishing me a sarcastic farewell or good riddance. It's a wonderful life.
I hope you will be eaten by angry squirrels. U nub! :P
I understand where you're coming from, Although I'm going to wait abit and see what happens.
Last edited by SquigPie; 12-20-2010 at 12:18 AM.
38 days later and my post is still valid....So, what exactly the patch won't be out until sometime in 2011???
That is my interpretation of what you just said Liz. (I seriously doubt GFWL people will work over christmas to approve some patch for a game released years ago).
2k games, what can I say, I am going to seriously think twice about ever buying one of you games again. you release this game incomplete and completely ignore the comments and complaints of your customers for months and finaly when everyone gave up on you, you announce that you will RESUME work on this patch when you lead us to believe that the patch was still being developed. too little too late.
I stopped playing this game months ago waiting for you to complete what should have been done before it was even released, and am still waiting. I payed good money for this software and am unhappy! whoever gave the approval to release this incomplete game needs to be fired! I understand that there are other products to focus on but why are people going to purchase those if your tract record says they will be incomplete and without support as well?
I'm curious as to what mentality has led a bunch of customers to believe that they have a right to know the current status of the project, and then try to justify it (because they know it's absurd, very very few companies release live patch updates as they are being developed) by saying "Oh you need to regain our trust."
Given the monstrously short attention span of people in general, I'd hazard a wager that if you have to wait two weeks, you'll still be satisfied if or when you see the final patch notes at long last.
2K claimed previously that they were working on a patch then announced later that there was no patch or DLC like they had said. Only after websites picked up the news and spread the word (since 2K had went back on their word) did 2K decide to "go back to work" on a supposed patch. But it still nothing but they are "working on it", the same thing they said earlier.
Bioware released Dragons Age in a very buggy state. In a period of several weeks, they released two small patches for the PC version, but not the consoles. Consolers asked "where is their patch". Bioware said working on it. A month went by. "Where is our patch?" ; "Working on it". That is all they were told. Next month the same thing. And the next month. And the next month. And the next month. And PC fans asked (they needed another patch, the 1.04 patch was buggy garbage). The forums became angry toward Bioware. Some fans said there was no patch. Fan-boys insulted the unhappy fans. During the same time, Bioware released 3 DLC (about every 6-8 weeks) instead.
Then after nearly 7 months (from the first) , Bioware announced that that were now going to collect bug reports to work on patches!! Bioware had told fans they were working an patches when they weren't. Bluntly, Bioware spent almost 7 months lying to the customers. Shortly after that announcement, they released a 4th DLC. To all appearances, they had been working on DLC and Dragons Age 2, not actually working on patches.
2K said the same thing "working on it" but there was no patch released. It was cancelled. Maybe this time there might actually be a patch. But 2K said there would be better communication. There isn't. Some customers want to know what had been fixed so far. As I said in an earlier post, the patch won't fix the bugs for everyone (could be certain cpu or graphic cards that it might no work with). 2K had said this will be the last patch, so it needs to fix every bug they can. As far as some customers are concerned, "working on it" this time isn't good enough. They give every appearance of not learning a damned thing. The fans should have a right to know.
well i just broke down and played it on the xbox, just gotta say WOW (won't spoil anything ofcourse :P ) will purchase it when it's on the pc
two weeks is fine... this game was released 9 months ago and most of the simple easy bug fixes have yet to be fixed. I dont need to know the status frankly I have given up and am now just expressing my frustration to the fact that I bought a broken game with $50 of my hard earned cash and 9 months later its still broken. With very little apparent effort initially from the publisher to make sure their customers are happy. Great Im glad they are finally getting around to fixing the stuff that should have been done before or very shortly after initial release. I will likely just wait from now on and get used version of 2k games because I dont want to risk this kind of experience again.
I couldn't pass up on the Steam deal, B2 is $10 although I already have it for the 360, hoping that the PC version doesn't have the texture pop-in like the 360 had, especially with Minerva's Den.
Anyway, the patch/DLC or whatever is coming out, will come out when it comes out. I'm surprised that some of you don't have other games to take up your time while you wait (for me it's Gran Turismo 5, Castlevania HD), from some of the posts on here, the attitudes are amazing, actually demanding to know step by step updates, really? Really?!
OK. Fair enough. I do want to point out, however, that "simple easy bug fixes" is a relative term. Amazingly, computer technology, and indeed programming, is a somewhat complex affair and I highly, highly doubt the host of complainers here has even the most minute knowledge of the latter.
Nonetheless, the layman has a right to demand a quality product, which right now BioShock 2 is not, except in spirit. I guess if 2K is fine with a reputation for making non-quality products, we're all gold here.
If the patches aren't released, I will stop recommending 2K products to people. That's me, personally.
So you're saying it's good practice for gaming developers to;
1. Put out an incomplete, buggy game
2. WITH $DLC ON DISC! = insta-fail
3. NEVER patch it
4. Lie about DLC being released BESIDE the console version
5. Abandon development of said DLC AND PATCH (only to be "resumed" [honestly, YET to be confirmed] 8+ months later)
Ya sounds good. You mean you haven't already started to not recommend 2k software? I sure as hell have.
Before responding to your rhetorical question, I will address the factual accuracy of the component parts:
1. Buggy? Yes. Incomplete?
2. How do you reckon? Is it really any different to make us download it - except downloading it takes a little more time?
3. Never patched? I don't know about you, but both my PC and PS3 copy have been patched.
4. True.
5. Could easily be fused with 4.
Anyway, it's not good business practice to do any of that - but I really don't care about what is or isn't good business practice for 2K. I don't care about their company because their interests are clearly misaligned with my own. But that's OK because that's the way the world works.
Hitherto, I have been telling people BioShock 2 is an excellent game that is plagued with unsightly bugs and errors, and to pick it up if they see it in a bargain bin or at a low price somewhere. Additionally, I have recommended games such as Civilization V and Borderlands as quality despite the 2K label.
I will do neither anymore if BioShock 2 ends up not being patched. Cancelling the patch and DLC on the first hand was very disappointing, but a second cancellation after an announcement clearly meant to "quell the tides" will force my hand.
Incase you didn't know sinclare solutions test pack is ON THE DISC you pay REAL $ for something you already have physical access to.
Glad I didn't pay full price for Bioshock 2, like you it was $20 at target when I picked it up. Bioshock just happens to be 1 of my top favorite series of all time. & like the others it seems silly to release DLC & an (impossible?) PATCH so late.. but I will gladely give the ms points for the DLC WORTH the $$
Yeah, I knew that. I also knew (when I bought the game originally) that I was purchasing a license to use the software, not the software itself. That's why I'm not so worked up about it.
I not only paid full price for BioShock 2, but I actually pre-ordered the Special Edition. Yikes!
As predicted, no meaningful information has come out of 2K prior to the holiday break. That means that nothing will come out of them for at least the first half of January 2011 because they will be getting back into things for a couple of weeks.
This will certainly come to a head around March 1 if no DLC and patch are released, and 2K will still not admit to any progress beyond "we're working on it". By then "we're working on it" will cease to be plausible, and it will certainly appear that there was once again no intention on the part of 2k to produce a patch or DLC for the PC.
Oh well. Have a happy holiday season, one and all. See you next year.
Liz I'm new here, but judging from what I've read here nobody's looking for "promises" as to what's being fixed, and whatnot. Rather, they seem to want to know what is currently believed to be fixed/in the process of being fixed- I can fully understand not wanting to let people down by giving them false hopes, but rather than making a promise tell us something that isn't definitive- Something that is subject to change. If it's against 2k's policies to release details that aren't definite, then just say so. That's just my take on things, and seeing as I just bought Bioshock 2 yesterday, I don't have anything to complain about (yet)
Thanks for your patience, especially with some of the less-than polite people posting here (especially given the fact that you came with good news, but people seem to be focusing on the barely (if at all) relevant bad news.)
In hindsight the following while maybe not 100% true certainly bears thinking about ....
BS2 was a cash-in plain and simple.
BS1 while not a polished marvel it was evidently a labour of love, exquisite in it's day and has rightfully sold a lot as a result.
Now after BS1 2K Boston aka Irrational Games were given free rein for their next project, I suspect the Bioshock theme and direction for that next project was decided very early on and in light of BS1's success 2K kicked back happy in the knowledge a new much anticipated AAA game was due to arrive in a few years namely Bioshock Infinite, which I have no doubt it will be.
So coming back to the messy disappointment that is BS2, from my point of view it is abundantly clear BS2 was a case of get something out that is hopefully as good as BS1, though not necessarily, but for as cheaply as possible so we can cash in while we wait for the cash cow that is Bioshock Infinite.
As a result of BS1 the suits at 2K were guaranteed a profit, whether BS2 was any good or not.
There appear to be clear signs of both budgetary and time constraints limiting the polish of BS2, these constraints are what the original cancellation of PC based ongoing support and DLC/patch development were no doubt the result of.
If you view this whole debacle with that in mind, things make sense.
BS2 was a testing ground for 2K Marin, it didn’t matter that they were a newly formed junior studio, BS2 was going to sell like hot cakes no matter what, so the lack of support, patches and DLC’s is neither here nor there when 2K and the suits in charge have made their profits already.
The cancellation of patch and DLC development simply came as a result of 2K Marin using up any and all budget, both money and time, they had been given/allowed on BS2.
The lack of any real significant support on this forum, the same, no more money or time allowed.
It was get BS2 done and dusted and move onto the next project a.s.a.p.
Why do I call them junior developers ? the evidence is self evident, look at the mistakes and bugs in BS2 ? including some carried over from BS1, school boy errors really.
How true is this, well I’ll let you make your own mind up, but with 10+ years of experience in the business, I know how the business works, it just depends on whether the publishers gives a rats ass or not when customers feel aggrieved.
Apparently 2K do, well insofar as they care about all the bad press the customer bases’ reaction was garnering for them both re: BS2 and this spilling over into articles, etc. about Bioshock Infinite which is their next cash cow.
In fact I suspect 2K were aware there was going to be backlash, the gambit was on whether or not they could get away with it, risk versus reward, hopefully they don’t try it again.
Hopefully that puts some context on this farce.
As an aside, I’ve now played BS2, fortunately via a colleague, and as a standalone game if BS1 never existed, yeahs it’s good, not excellent, I think BS2 would need to at least match the likes of Dead Space to be excellent.
In comparison to BS1, well it’s a poor relative really, BS2 is nearly devoid of atmosphere in comparison to BS1, my main gripe amongst a number, having played BS2 twice in a week, once straight through and then side by side with BS1, level by level, I’d like to think my opinion is verified on that basis.
It just shows that whereby BS1 was a labour of love, BS2 was just a job limited by time and money, unfortunately.
How the love, care and attention to detail that went into the BS2 viral website didn't rub off on whole BS2 project/game is 2K Marin's biggest failing I must say, compare them and you can see the game is certainly lacking.
We can but hope Bioshock Infinite benefits from the original development team, extended deadlines and budgets and BS2 can be somewhat excused, though I'm not adverse to revisiting Rapture, inspite of it's poor treatment since BS1.
This thought holds true with Dead Space, it itself is evidently a labour of love, I’m hoping DS2 is more DS1/BS1 than BS2.
PS
Get the patch and dlc out, asap, and finish Bioshock (still great games). Then get back to SYSTEM SHOCK!
It doesn't have to be termed a 2K policy - it's my policy - and as the head of this department, that means it is policy. So hang tight - I'll keep you guys informed when there's new, concrete news.Liz I'm new here, but judging from what I've read here nobody's looking for "promises" as to what's being fixed, and whatnot. Rather, they seem to want to know what is currently believed to be fixed/in the process of being fixed- I can fully understand not wanting to let people down by giving them false hopes, but rather than making a promise tell us something that isn't definitive- Something that is subject to change. If it's against 2k's policies to release details that aren't definite, then just say so. That's just my take on things, and seeing as I just bought Bioshock 2 yesterday, I don't have anything to complain about (yet
Thanks for your patience, especially with some of the less-than polite people posting here (especially given the fact that you came with good news, but people seem to be focusing on the barely (if at all) relevant bad news.)
“Promises are like the full moon, if they are not kept at once they diminish day by day”
Still nothing to report, Liz? I'm going to go crazy with anticipation!
such inpatient people get over the wait you want to whine about things taking their time all i need to say is duke nukem
things come when least expected these things will occour so get over it
stop bad mouthing the poor woman who is doing her job and going out of her way to do her job so grow up its after christmas here in aus so merry christmas, happy hanukkah and and what ever the hell the greating is for kwanzaa
Posting not only on a Saturday, but a big holiday?! Now, I know I have a fairly regular habit of posting during evenings and weekends, but at least give the team a breather for that one day! ;-)
Man, some people are too uptight. It's just a game, for crying out loud people.
2KElizabeth, don't let these people get to you. Yes, I want the content too, but it will come when it comes. Whining and crying about it won't get it here any faster.
You need one and the other
Hello everyone 1st time poster. I just recently acquired the game for $5 on amazon digital download.I've been reading the threads.This one and the previous one, and would like to point out a few things. There is a need for the negative commentary as well as the smart one's I've seen on the forums. If it weren't for the out cry of those who made their discontent known, Liz wouldn't have had the documentation that would over turn the previous decision. Granted I'm sure she could have done without the name calling and some of the more colorful commentary, but it was still the mass number of such disapproval with the company move that made it known and "rectified" in a sense.I'd also like to point out that the supporters with their more civilized and smart approach kept the topic on course and helped quell the issue from becoming a childish tantrum.
With that being said. I'm looking forward to the patch as I'm worried that that the current state of the game will affect my game play. Also that the promised DLC being free will make this quite the bargain of the year for me. Liz made a statement that the release could very well come in December, and we are still in that month ladies and gentlemen . Granted if it surpasses that time we shouldn't fret too much, for things like holidays and changes within companies happen in the end as well as the beginning of the year are all part of the scheme of life. What I propose is that we remain patient but not complacent. 2k should be made privy everyday that there is a large community out there that wants this patch. Just in an mature way if also in a little flamboyant fashion.
further more for those of you who make statements as " quit you whining" is just not progressive to the nature of the issue as the whining itself. Consider this, its that "whining" that made the overturn its the smart moves that guided it.
Now Liz would you be as so kind as to let us know the nature of the "beast" when you are able. I know you mention such notions, I'm simply doing my part to show you that we as a community are still here and growing ^_^
Not to pour gasoline on the fire here, but I feel I must respond to some misconceptions about releasing information about the work the team has already done.
The project manager can walk into the developers' pit and find out what's been fixed? Essentially true (more realistically, he or she can probably check their bug tracking system to see which bugs developers have marked "fixed"). Then again, not really. No bug is "fixed" until it has been verified by QA, and then only in a gold master candidate. Anytime anyone touches code, it has the potential to re-break something that's already been fixed (which is called a regression). Or worse, introduce a slew of new bugs.
Worse, even if you get a build that passes through QA, your release then has to pass SONY's QA, and they (probably) have a totally different set of standards about what's valid or not. Oops, we forgot, to speed up testing we only show the Sony logo for 1 second instead of 6, and now that build is null and void and you have to repeat the whole process... which requires getting on the Sony testing schedule. (That's an exaggerated example, naturally. If anything that dumb ever happened, people would get fired. Although, come to think of it, it probably has, and people were.)
So suppose they tell you bug 24601 has been fixed, and then subsequently discover that it created twelve new bugs, some of which will require significant rearchitecting of major systems to fix. Guess what? Bug 24601 isn't going into the final patch. It's just going to be too expensive. Ergo, any kind of advance disclosure is an open invitation to a lynch mob. Ergo you will not see any kind of information on what's being fixed until everything is locked and loaded.
(Er, I just realized, the whole bit about console testing is completely irrelevant WHEN YOU'RE NOT SHIPPING ON A CONSOLE. /ignore.)
seriously, what game are they working on. cause we know it isn't really bioshock 2.
...Except on the 2K CiV forum, where rough patch notes, work in progress, completed work and prospective/hopeful fixes are detailed by 2KGreg on a regular basis leading up to a patch release...
http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...ll-Change-List
well in all fainrness civ has a much more dedicated fanbase and has been around since the early days of pc gaming
2 more days of December. This means we will DEFINITELY get the progress report soon, as 2K NEVER breaks a promise.
...Except on the 2K CiV forum, where rough patch notes, work in progress, completed work and prospective/hopeful fixes are detailed by 2KGreg on a regular basis leading up to a patch release...
http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...ll-Change-List
Civ is an entirely different studio with a different process and is in a different part of its development cycle. I know we're all part of the same 2K family, but each dev studio works very differently and the projects (BioShock 2 and Civilization V) are very, very different. The situations are not apples to apples. If something like what Greg provides were available for you guys for BioShock 2, I'd be handing it out.
I've been giving you guys updates in December - the content's not coming this month and it's not yet in cert, but I don't expect cert to be long from now. However, I don't have an exact day.
Greg seems to be benefiting from the fruits of basic project management and progress reporting. Possibly he's gathering information instead of waiting for it to be handed to him.
Of course that would be a different process and situation than Bioshock 2.
Well I'm Greg's boss, so I'm glad you think that my strategies are working and our team is doing well! ;-)
...then why isn't the same thing happening with this?
I've already explained that: Different studios, different teams, different game, different code being worked on, different circumstances.
When I have the notes for you guys, you'll get them - but this kind of patch and work is not the same as what's being done with Civilization V.
Can you transfer yourself off of Bioshock 2 and transfer Greg to us?
So, it is officially 2011 now (at least where I am). Any news as of yet?
Last edited by CatatonicMan; 01-01-2011 at 09:52 AM.
how about making Bioshock 3 with a GOOD engine?. just dump this one in the future!.
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