Civ V Handbook for Despots & Dictators

[VicRatlhead51]

Ahhh gotcha that makes more sense now. I'm kind of hoping they introduce a better promotion line for archers and crossbows too. Its so frustrating to promote a veteran crossbowman to a rifleman and have half of his promotions instantly become useless. Maybe a grenadier then a mortarman then a rocket launcher or something. I always wind up with a ton of infantry after the introduction of gunpowder. Oh well thanks for the quick clarification. I was starting to think the celts would be my new favorite civ

[zephyrtr]

Well, your prayers have been answered. Crossbowmen will now no longer promote to Riflemen. They instead promote to a new ranged unit: the Gatling Gun. The Gatling will then promote to the Machine Gun. I don't know if there's anything beyond that, but it definitely solves the problem of making all those ranged rank ups useless.

[twersx]

Do you know if similar things will be done for Ranged mounted units? Considering Keshiks' Quick Study will get them far far ahead most units will get, it's really frustrating having to lose the amazing keshik I've built. Personally I'd like to see Pistol or carbine equipped Horses in the renaissance/industrial eras.

[twersx]

I'll need to double check them as well, but My initial thoughts are that they are somewhere between the 4th to 8th powerful civ. I'll have to really test them out in a few games to be sure though.

the +2 science/specialist is solid, but the 'RA' equivalent tech bonus, while great, is very limited it seems. (few actual occurrences)
The Hwatch'a is really nice, but the Turtle ship holds them back some.

After playing as Korea a few times, their ability to generate science is absurd. As the game goes on, you'll get an extra +2 from Academies, leading to 10 Science Base. Rationalism opener also gives 2 Science from every specialist; effectively doubling their UA. And with the number of specialists you're likely to employ, you'll be getting Great People ridiculously quickly

[MadDjinn]

"Battering Ram (Unique Spearman, Ancient Melee)
Cost 60
Move 2
Strength 10
+50% combat bonus VS Cities"

This is fairly wrong.

'Tis not a Spearman with a bonus vs. cities.

It's a Siege unit that happens to melee attack. Quite the difference.

[civdiss]

"Battering Ram (Unique Spearman, Ancient Melee)
Cost 60
Move 2
Strength 10
+50% combat bonus VS Cities"

This is fairly wrong.

'Tis not a Spearman with a bonus vs. cities.

It's a Siege unit that happens to melee attack. Quite the difference.

Looks like early rush becomes almost too easy with the Huns..spam Rams which anyhow are very strong with 10 pikeman level strength and beat up cities with 15 base strength (plus GG or Statue of Zeus if present). Unless strength has been rebalanced across all units along with HP and that number is misleading.

[MadDjinn]

Looks like early rush becomes almost too easy with the Huns..spam Rams which anyhow are very strong with 10 pikeman level strength and beat up cities with 15 base strength (plus GG or Statue of Zeus if present). Unless strength has been rebalanced across all units along with HP and that number is misleading.

even the +50% vs. cities is wrong/can't be linked to a factual statement about the Battering Ram.

[wingednosering]

Really? From the info we've gotten I thought it was just going to be a spearman with a siege promotion (and graphic change). I assumed it would lead to uber siege pikemen.

[MadDjinn]

Really? From the info we've gotten I thought it was just going to be a spearman with a siege promotion (and graphic change). I assumed it would lead to uber siege pikemen.

it says 'Siege unit ...' in the description. which tells me it's not a 'spearman with siege promotion'.

Siege units are not upgraded to pikes or any other non-siege unit (Hatchway aside).

[zephyrtr]

It's a unique spearman which has been repurposed into a siege unit. Most likely it loses its bonus VS mounted for a bonus VS Cities. I wouldn't be surprised if it promoted to Pikemen, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it promoted to catapult. I'll be making a specific notation about this when we have full info on it, don't worry. +50% VS Cities is most likely, though until we have the game in our hands, any info on uniques -- or any units really -- is quite tentative. I heard that Siege units will do even less damage against units now, which probably means their overall strenght's reduced further and their bonus VS cities is kicked up to 100%, but we'll see.

I'm just trying to get a head start so there isn't too huge an amount of work to do once June 19th hits.

[MadDjinn]

It's a unique spearman which has been repurposed into a siege unit. Most likely it loses its bonus VS mounted for a bonus VS Cities. I wouldn't be surprised if it promoted to Pikemen, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it promoted to catapult. I'll be making a specific notation about this when we have full info on it, don't worry. +50% VS Cities is most likely, though until we have the game in our hands, any info on uniques -- or any units really -- is quite tentative. I heard that Siege units will do even less damage against units now, which probably means their overall strenght's reduced further and their bonus VS cities is kicked up to 100%, but we'll see.

I'm just trying to get a head start so there isn't too huge an amount of work to do once June 19th hits.

It's not a unique spearman, that's your problem right there. You think it is, because it replaces the spear, but it's not. It's a Siege unit that happens to do melee damage, not to be confused with a melee unit that has a siege promotion and continues to be promoted to a pikeman. Sure, there might be confusion as to the 'subtle' difference between those two things, but as it's written as a siege unit ingame (demo), then any thoughts that it's the latter option are false.

That part is very obvious from the text shown about it.

[zephyrtr]

"Unique Spearman" means its a unit that replaces the spearman, just like the Camel Archer is a "Unique Knight" even though it's an archery unit. I wouldn't be surprised if the Battering Ram counts as a Siege unit as well as a Melee unit, just as the Camel Archer counts as Archery AND Mounted.

Do you know that the Battering Ram won't promote to the Pikemen? I don't think they've mentioned at all any out of normal promotions for unique units. The Camel Archer still promotes to the Cavalry, though I suppose they could change that with the Gatling.

[MadDjinn]

"Unique Spearman" means its a unit that replaces the spearman, just like the Camel Archer is a "Unique Knight" even though it's an archery unit. I wouldn't be surprised if the Battering Ram counts as a Siege unit as well as a Melee unit, just as the Camel Archer counts as Archery AND Mounted.

Do you know that the Battering Ram won't promote to the Pikemen? I don't think they've mentioned at all any out of normal promotions for unique units. The Camel Archer still promotes to the Cavalry, though I suppose they could change that with the Gatling.

big difference in there. ranged mounted and melee mounted are basically the same things, just with different attack styles, especially on upgrade paths (mounted from the beginning of the game upgrades through the same thing).

Difference between siege and melee is upgrade paths and what they do. They don't share a unit_combatclass definition, even remotely,

[civdiss]

big difference in there. ranged mounted and melee mounted are basically the same things, just with different attack styles, especially on upgrade paths (mounted from the beginning of the game upgrades through the same thing).

Difference between siege and melee is upgrade paths and what they do. They don't share a unit_combatclass definition, even remotely,

So its going to be a spearman replacement of the siege type instead of melee. That means it will upgrade via the siege weapons path into a catapult/trebuchet and so on. Question: is it going to have reduced sight as all siege weapons? are we sure its going to melee attack or is it going to be similar to the machine gun?

[zephyrtr]

That means it will upgrade via the siege weapons path into a catapult/trebuchet and so on.

We don't know this. We also don't know if the unit will count as a Siege/Melee hybrid like the Camel Archer is a Mounted/Archery hybrid (remember when their ranged attack VS pikemen would trigger their bonus vs mounted?) It makes sense, considering the Spearman is at the beginning of a line, but is definitely a bit radical for the game. Would that mean the Camel Archer would duck out of the mounted line and promote to the Gatling? Some very interesting questions I imagine we won't have answers to until June 19th.

[MagnaCaesar]

Cool guide, and I like how you did the native pronunciations and spellings of the leaders names.

[zephyrtr]

That means it will upgrade via the siege weapons path into a catapult/trebuchet and so on.

Turns out you were right! The Battering Ram is a Melee siege unit (which means I'm sure that it can take a city) and upgrades to the Trebuchet, so you can have both battering rams and catapults on the field at the same time (and should!) Very wicked.

Cool guide, and I like how you did the native pronunciations and spellings of the leaders names.

Aww, thanks!

[Vlynor]

Zephyr, are you going to be updating this with Gods and Kings features? And if so, would you like assistance with the Social Policies and all that?

[zephyrtr]

You mean updating suggested policies and all that? Yeah, I'm gonna have to -- though I don't know when I'll have time for that. Definitely if you'd like to post up suggested policies and wonders for different Civs you play, that's a big help, especially if we all discuss it.

Even if you write up a paragraph or two on how a Civ is handling for you, that's great. I'll credit you if I plug it into the main post, but I will also edit you, so you know.

[MadDjinn]

If I can get away from recording an LP soon, I'll try to post a new list for the civs. Likely a few lists actually.

[zephyrtr]

Thanks man I appreciate that. Hope you're having fun!

[PachaMinnie]

The Beliefs Byzantium can get are all beliefs. Founder, Follower, and Partheon beliefs are all available to them once they found a Religion in that 6th slot.

[zephyrtr]

Oh wow so they have their choice of anything? Cool! When do they get it? Upon founding the religion, or upon enhancing it, or..?

[PachaMinnie]

Oh wow so they have their choice of anything? Cool! When do they get it? Upon founding the religion, or upon enhancing it, or..?

Founding your religion.

[madroxe]

Zeph - just wanted to chime in and thank you for the guide, which I've been using since you posted. I don't play one civ in particular. I just go down the list in your guide, taking turns with each Civ while reading each overview to remind me of the important stuff. I know you're probably swamped with Gods and Kings right now. Just wanted to tip my hat to a job well done.

[zephyrtr]

Thanks very much for saying so! I hope to have little write-ups for each of the new Civs soon. I haven't been able to play very much, though -- only in the Renaissance with Netherlands, and there are 8 others i have to try!

Let me know if you see any errors in the write-ups!

[zephyrtr]

Has anyone been able to confirm whether Sweden's +10% GP generation stacks with multiple DoF's?

[brhlbryce]

yes it does

[zephyrtr]

When does England get its bonus spy? Immediately, or...? Also, how much does Austria have to spend to marry an Allied City State?

[Vlynor]

355 Gold, I believe. That's the price on quick, I don't know if it varies.

[zephyrtr]

You guys are on fire today. How does the Hussar's Enhanced Flanking work? I assume it get +50% CS whenever it is receiving a Flanking bonus from another unit? It still gets the normal flanking bonus (+10% per unit) on top of this, correct?

[Vlynor]

It says it increases the bonus by 50%, so I assume that's a 60% increase altogether, yes.

[SlickSlicer]

opinions-

I don't see how America is balanced for victory conditions. All of their unique features are oriented toward domination except
buying tiles at half price (which isn't oriented toward anything).

Austria seems to be balanced by contrast. The great person generation from coffee houses can be useful for multiple victory conditions. Despite the name of the UA, they aren't really balanced toward diplo victory. If you take over a city-state, you lose their vote. Ergo, if you wanted a diplo victory you'd have to avoid ever using their UA. So in that sense, to me it seems like they're balanced toward every single victory type except Diplo.

Carthage imo is entirely oriented toward domination. Aside from free harbors, which like Manifest Destiny doesn't really fit any particular victory type, all of their unique features help with battles.

Celts are balanced since religion can fit anything really, and they're oriented entirely around that in the early game. I'd say domination suits them best but they can do anything they want.

Ethiopia is mediocre until they fix the Mehal Safari, but seems to be oriented toward non-domination victories. The faith boost they get makes them kinda balanced like the Celts. Since they have to have less cities than others to make use of their UA, they are better with culture than science.

Sweden: Diplo victory. They can pull off mid-game domination with their great uus maybe.

Huns: Early on, there is no reason why you'd want to completely avoid war with them. I mean they have those great battering rams and horse archers. They raze cities twice as fast, which is useful later as well.

Despite the obvious fact that they're suited toward domination, however, they can easily be fitted toward other victory types. +1 production with pastures is an extremely useful bonus for just about everything. If you get a lot of pastures in your capital, it might actually be worth it to invest in wonder building instead (too bad I don't often seem to get this :'(). Personally I often take god of the open skies in order to get culture from pastures as well, which makes pastures even sweeter.

[Ikie]

I believe that once you choose all the seven great people as the Mayans it starts off at a fresh as slate again(you get to choose any great person you want again.)

[PachaMinnie]

opinions-

I don't see how America is balanced for victory conditions. All of their unique features are oriented toward domination except
buying tiles at half price (which isn't oriented toward anything).

Austria seems to be balanced by contrast. The great person generation from coffee houses can be useful for multiple victory conditions. Despite the name of the UA, they aren't really balanced toward diplo victory. If you take over a city-state, you lose their vote. Ergo, if you wanted a diplo victory you'd have to avoid ever using their UA. So in that sense, to me it seems like they're balanced toward every single victory type except Diplo.

Carthage imo is entirely oriented toward domination. Aside from free harbors, which like Manifest Destiny doesn't really fit any particular victory type, all of their unique features help with battles.

Celts are balanced since religion can fit anything really, and they're oriented entirely around that in the early game. I'd say domination suits them best but they can do anything they want.

Ethiopia is mediocre until they fix the Mehal Safari, but seems to be oriented toward non-domination victories. The faith boost they get makes them kinda balanced like the Celts.

Sweden: Diplo victory. They can pull off mid-game domination with their great uus maybe.

America is focused on late game conquering.

Austria is generic and forced, but you are right.

Why do you say the Ethiopia is mediocre? There is nothing at all wrong with the Mehal Sefari. I'd say Ethiopia is really good for 1 city challenges or culture game.

[SlickSlicer]

I was basing that off what other people said about mehal safari. I heard that it gets a penalty if it's too far away from the capital. I guess I should add that since they have less cities, they're best off with culture rather than science (which benefits from more).

[PachaMinnie]

I was basing that off what other people said about mehal safari. I heard that it gets a penalty if it's too far away from the capital. I guess I should add that since they have less cities, they're best off with culture rather than science (which benefits from more).

Believe me, the Mehal Sefari gets no penalty away from cities. How do you think I conquered the Huns and one Celtic city?\

Culture victory is my choice for the Ethiopians, but they can do anything really. Any civ with faith can go for any victory they want. They get alliances with city-states, faith bonuses, money, and great people.

[Joketa]

Started my first G&K game with the Celts this morning. One thing I noted was that when getting two faith per turn (3 adjacent forest tiles), you get your pantheon choice well before you've done any decent scouting. This makes decisions based on terrain a little premature. Even with 1 FPT, you won't know much beyond your capital. But at least you get first choice.

[slyone14]

swedens for sure well rounded, i just got a culture victory on emporer, 22 civs, 35 cs, 44 max now. It was really easy, i just used all my gp and gave them to lots of cs with culture bonus. Kept them with gold by selling luxuries. Used my uu to defend, take some cities and patrol. So this is another strat to use with sweden. i could easily see domin too.

[MadDjinn]

355 Gold, I believe. That's the price on quick, I don't know if it varies.

It's 500g on Standard speed, so yes it scales by game speed.

You guys are on fire today. How does the Hussar's Enhanced Flanking work? I assume it get +50% CS whenever it is receiving a Flanking bonus from another unit? It still gets the normal flanking bonus (+10% per unit) on top of this, correct?

It says it increases the bonus by 50%, so I assume that's a 60% increase altogether, yes.

50% increase to +10% = +15%.