Polynesians are greatttt for a cultural victory.
Ya their defense seems damn good, which is an important aspect to Culture. Still havent had a chance to play them hands-on though...
they are very different from any other nation
no real comparison to any at all
I'm about 50 turns away from a cultural victory with them. They play kinda like India, going cultural with good defense. However, early game with the Maori Warriors gives them a nice offensive buff, and if you can keep those units around they keep their bonus as they are upgraded. I ended up taking a bunch of cities around my main three, and keeping them as puppet states to act as a sort of buffer zone.
combine them with archers and the archers will do tons of damage since having a maori warrior next to the unit ur shooting at will still give the -10% when the archer attacks
Denmark is comming!
are you going to finish Polynesia and do Denmark?:
He seems to be really busy. I could do a write-up on both Polynesia and Denmark, I guess, but I don't want to hijack his thread with my noncanonical additions. So waiting on Zeph to give me the go ahead. :O
i dont think he would mind it that you complete the guides, but it is better to ask him first.
i hope he comes up soon!
good luck to all with Denmark and the senerio of the Vikings.
I've played up until about the 10th century on a small continents map with Denmark. I got the Berzerkers going a little bit. Nice animation on them. They're pretty cool because they have the same movement as knights without the risk of getting speared up.
The extra embarkation movement is more useful than I initially thought.
Obviously, Denmark is a good warrior civ, and very good on watery maps. They get no non-military bonuses though.
Hey all -- If you want to do write-ups for Polynesia and Denmark, I'd love to add them to the guide. I hope you don't mind if I edit whatever you send in. I bought polynesia and havent had a chance to actually play them yet. Thank got hotseat's coming back, which will probably mean I'll be playing again.
In the meantime, I'd be happy to add content you guys provide to the front posts to keep it current.
Update: ok, I've carved out a section for the Danes. Post corrected info for unique units/abilities from new patches I may have not thoroughly read about. Also, lemme know about the Danes and the Polynesians!
Last edited by zephyrtr; 05-06-2011 at 06:59 PM.
Inspired enough by Viking history that this civ could also be called the Vikings, Denmark is styled to invade from the sea and over northern climates. The unique ability, Viking Fury, gives units +1 embarkation movement and requires only one movement point when moving from sea to land (though not vice-versa). This means that your units can race in from beyond city defenses and storm the beaches handily. The added embarkation movement is also great for shortening long hauls overseas. Viking fury also adds the ability to pillage without movement costs; great for running a war of attrition to pick away at your enemies’ strengths.
Both of the unique units are of the military variety. The Berserkers are great fun and sure to dominate the era. Their free Amphibious promotion and +1 land movement means you’ve basically got a knight that isn’t afraid of pikes, has no penalty for invading cities, and can attack from the sea. They can pillage, destroy, and basically run amuck in enemy lands. The Norwegian Ski Infantry isn’t quite as cool as the Berserkers, but they do have some nice combat and movement bonuses in the following terrain: snow, tundra, and hills with no forests or jungles on them. (Note: they don’t get the combat bonus on tree-filled hills, but they do get the movement bonus.)
The beauty of these two fighting units is that many of their bonuses are stackable when upgrading. While you do lose the Berserkers +1 movement when it upgrades to Norwegian Ski Infantry, an Infantry soldier that has been both a Berserker and a Norwegian Ski Infantry will retain Amphibious and the bonuses for hills and ice. Exploit this.
With the exception of settlers and workers gaining embarkation movement, all of Denmark’s unique abilities are set for an offensive campaign. No doubt, this is a civ you’ll want if domination is your game, especially if your map has a lot of water on it.
Last edited by Joketa; 05-09-2011 at 06:51 AM.
There's one thing you need to change in the Berserker description, though. Amphibious removes the combat penalty when fighting across rivers or while moving from sea to land. It doesn't affect the movement cost. I think that information may also affect some of the wording you used in your edit of my write-up: "and is not slowed down by rivers or seas". Maybe "not deterred" would be more appropriate.
the bonus combat for moai statues is a part of the UA, not the improvment
Is it really? That's just poor paragraphing. I'm gonna leave it where it is -- as a benefit to something as specific as their Unique Improvement should be counted as a benefit of that improvement. If it boosts a feature of play that no other Civ experiences, I don't think it should be a part of the UA.
id say if their city is captured by another civ
they wont get the combat bonus when the city is flipped
kinda like the culture hangs on to its identity until they take teh statues down
Hey Zephyrtr. First of all, thanks for such a useful reference guide; it's very helpful in my games! I've lurked here for a while and when I saw you offer other people to post writeups for the chance to be part of the guide, I decided to do one. I did a writeup for Polynesia, tell me what you think, guys.
King Kamehameha I the Great
(ca. 1758 – 1819)
Polynesia's ability to immediately embark and sail across oceans (the biggest restriction to early-game exploration) can shoot them way ahead and give them a massive advantage, whether it be culture, number of cities, or even science. Since any land or sear unit can move across Ocean from the get-go, Polynesia can find good spots for new cities with ease. Scouts are cheap, so set two or three into the ocean immediately to find lands uncharted. Just watch out for Galleys attempting to swipe your embarked units, although you can move them into ocean tiles to keep them safe.
The bonuses don't stop there: this ability means earlier options for diplomacy and trade. Once you get to Philosophy, you should sign research agreements before the other Civs can sign them with each other. You can afford to do this if you find most of the City-States first. Signing many research agreements is important to advancing the tech tree.
If your starting position requires some early expansion or defense, the Maori Warrior will help resolve that. The Haka War Dance weakens adjacent enemy units' strength by 10% allows them to support other friendly units while still holding their own. Bring along archers and catapults to take advantage of this. Like many unique pre-Medieval units, the Maori Warrior is an early investment. This promotion persists through unit upgrades, so try to keep them alive.
The Moai is one of the most versatile tile improvements in the game, provided that you have a lot of coast to build on. The defense bonus on top of culture (and later, gold) will provide a boost to the dispersed Polynesian empire. Keep in mind that Moai adjacent to each other produce more culture the longer the chain is, so plan for this accordingly when choosing where to settle.
Suggested Policies: Liberty, Commerce, Freedom
Suggested Wonders: Pyramids, Forbidden Palace, Sistine Chapel
Favored Map: Archipelago
Favored Win: Cultural
Rank: Unknown (strangemodule's suggestion: S)
Can Embark and move over Oceans immediately (with unique graphic!)
+1 Sight when Embarked
- Maori Warrior (Warrior, Ancient Melee)
-10% combat penalty to adjacent enemies. Does not stack.
- Moai (Replaces nothing, Classical Improvement)
Unlocks with Construction
Grants +1 Culture to Coast-adjacent land tiles
Provides a bonus +1 Culture for each adjacent Moai
Grants +10% Combat bonus to allied units within 2 tiles
Provides a bonus +1 Gold after Flight
Tier List Summary: Wayfinding gives virtually unrestricted exploration abilities, letting you find the land you want and start diplomacy sooner. Maori Warrior a good support unit and investment. Moai are very versatile and raises culture dramatically without obstructing tile resources.
Last edited by strangemodule; 05-13-2011 at 01:44 AM.
DAMMIT, that's a good point. Okay will fix, and strangemodule, I'll look at your writeup in a bit.
Originally Posted by the man of doom
Why not suggest Tradition for Polynesia, if they're going for a cultural victory? I think S is a bit too much for Polynesia's rank, maybe A or B. I also disagree with Germany being in S, partly because the barbarian conversion is so unreliable, partly because the Panzer is late game and anti-tanks are easy to produce, and partly because the pikemen are cheap to produce but have no other bonuses. Just my 2 cents.
Also, I'd like to add that for Moai, sometimes you'll have to sacrifice food from a forest or jungle on those coastal tiles to make that improvement. You have to choose carefully whether the -2 food, +1 production, +2 culture (if they're connected), +1 gold is worth it, though they are indeed versatile.
Also, please talk more about the Polynesian potential for space victories! Coastal food + lots of cities = huge amounts of science. And with science come more naval defenses, aircraft, etc. Upgraded Maori are deadly too.
I have to disagree with this, I've given Persia a few go, testing/calculating the most ideal route for them to take, and I would suggest cultural, and cultural regardless of environment.
Originally Posted by zephyrtr
Ideally, you can accomplish a cultural victory by turn 320 at latest with any civ. With Persia, you can have 30 turn golden ages, as you mention, and in one game, finished by turn 283, I have triggered 4 major golden ages (total length 110 turns) and 5 minor ones with great people and policies (total length 79 turns). This means I spent 189 of 283 turns in golden ages, or 67% of the game.
With a more expansive strategy, which is required basically for every other victory condition, this would've been reduced, optimistically, by a good 60 turns, as piety is simply not a smart policy when going for pretty much anything but a cultural victory. Reducing the percentage of time spent in golden ages to 46%, and this is huge. While it is true that the larger the empire, the more it benefits from golden ages, the difference in benefit is hardly equivalent of +/-21% of the game being spent in golden ages.
The effects of the golden ages I don't think I really need to discuss regarding the Persians, except that the combat bonus is great on defense, especially if one plays a mobile defensive tactic, involving primarily mounted units.
I guess this loss in golden ages could be countered with that the Satraps Court is great for happiness and the economy, and would probably lead to the gain of a quite a few extra population points. However, ultimately, I still believe it would be less of an advantage, unless you start on a map where you need to expand quite a bit to claim new luxuries, as you just can't rely on the trade of others all trough the game, save one or two opponents, which often just aren't enough. As a backup, in case the geography really does suck, I would put diplo victory as the second-best choice.
As for the wonders, I'd replace the Hanging Gardens with the Sistine Chapel on lower difficulties, as I find it to be the most pivotal wonder regarding culture, and can shorten the game very significantly. On Immortal, Deity, and MP (I presume, though I don't play it), however, I would have the Kremlin instead, because your opponents will really be out there to get you, unless you have a HUGE army, which I wouldn't particularly suggest, and so I'd prefer stretching the game out a bit more, but ultimately winning it without losing half my cities. Although I should add that on Immortal, I still managed to build: Stonehenge, Chinchen Itza, the Sistine Chapel, Taj Mahal, and the Kremlin, on both games when I put these wonders as priorities. Nevertheless, the top 3 should be Chinchen Itza, Taj Mahal, and the Kremlin, in this order.
I would also replace honor with tradition, in social policies, as it would make more sense in terms of a cultural victory.
When playing with them, I debated going with Tradition; it's a very strong option for building up lots of culture early on. I recommended Liberty, however, because Wayfinding encourages fast expansion across many islands. Plus, you do get 1 culture per city with Liberty, so staying on top of social policies isn't too difficult.
Originally Posted by Mythdracon
That is true. Remember though, strategic/luxury resources are still gained if you place a Moai on them. Planning for potential Moai placement when choosing a spot to settle must be considered in order to avoid the situation you described.
Originally Posted by Mythdracon
Having the extra culture for Moai would come in handy for blowing through Rationalism, now that I think of it. I don't usually think about Science victories except when talking about a Civ that specializes in Science/Production due to how difficult the victory is.
Originally Posted by Mythdracon
Thanks for your response! I guess Liberty makes sense if one is expanding a lot. But Polynesia doesn't have to be played that way, and with the Moai cultural bonuses I would almost recommend not playing that way. Maybe just mention how they can really be adapted to any victory type, but have to change policies accordingly (Tradition and Piety for culture mongers, Liberty for expansion, Rationalism for Science, etc).
Didn't know strategic resources are still gained if you place Moai on top of them. Does that mean making a Moai on a hill with iron will grant you the iron? O_o!
So with the new patch I've now settled down to play the game more after loads of time off. Playin through the Danes right now, actually. AI still seems like a bit of a pushover, but with fixes being rolled out for MP, I'm not sure people are going to care much longer.
If anyone's up to it, can people help me find info in the uniques bulletpoints that have now become incorrect in newer versions of the game?
Thx man, got his site bookmarked now.
I just swept through and fixed all the numbers on uniques, and clarified the language. I'll probably tweak/rewrite writeups once I feel I have a better understanding of policies and of vertical vs horizontal growth.
I want to check now -- and if someone can just tell me yes or no that would be great:
Does the Egyptian Burial Tomb indeed NOT require a Monument in the city to be built?
Do ONLY the Walls of Babylon increase to the offensive power of a City, or do all Walls do this? By how much?
Is it true that all defensive structures enable a city to heal itself faster? Does anyone know by how much?
And does anyone know by how much Great General generation is increased by Companion Cavalry/Keshiks and by Samurai?
Does the Egyptian Burial Tomb indeed NOT require a Monument in the city to be built? correct, but legalism will chose a monument over it, which is what was broken with songhai, new cities starting with a mpm
Do ONLY the Walls of Babylon increase to the offensive power of a City, or do all Walls do this? By how much?both offense and defense, all walls do that, if u have oligarch it is quite alot, but it assumes the ranged str of its combat str
Is it true that all defensive structures enable a city to heal itself faster? Does anyone know by how much? correct, i beleive it is +2 addition per turn, also the arsenal is now a defensive building
And does anyone know by how much Great General generation is increased by Companion Cavalry/Keshiks and by Samurai? p sure its all the same, china spawn rate got knocked down to 50%
Thx for the clarifications!
Yeah GG and GS for China and Babylon are at +50%, for sure. On the units, Keshiks and Companion Cavalry have an upgrade called "Great Generals I" and the term "likely to spawn" is used. Samurai on the other hand have "Great Generals II" and the term "very likely to spawn" is used. This leads me to believe Samurai actually generate more bonus GG points than Keshiks or Companion Cavalry.
well the keshiks get double exp anyways so i guess that is 2.5x (1.5 for GGs plus the double exp)
id have to test it to see a difference
also the chu promotion to attack twice is a triangle promotion
Does this mean they could acquire Logistics and shoot 3 times in one turn? Attacking requires Movement, so this isn't possible, is it?
yes they can acquire logistics but it does nothing (unless maybe it was a scout upgrade with scouting II, then again it would take ages to get to logistics after that)
well until mech inf which will allow them to attack 3 times rather than 2
GREAT JOB. How much time did you spend on that? Whoa.
How much of your LIFE did you spend on this? Wow, amazing patience and dedication. Great job.
Thanks much! It didn't take quite as long as you might think -- and I've been poking at it for a while. I'm glad you find it useful.
oh btw freedom and order are mutually exclusive now
a few of urs suggest both
Thanks -- they should all be fixed now. I'll be cleaning up wonders in a bit too as well. Some have changed so much, they should be revisited. Later I'll start actually editing the rundowns. Did 'Murica the other day.
Almost completely done with my updates to the guide -- everyone feel free to leave replies if you see out of date, incorrect or incomplete information.
Also, I'd love to hear critiques on my new tier list!
Sweet can't wait to check it out
Originally Posted by zephyrtr