Imbalance: Unique Unit Traits After Promotion

[zephyrtr]

I've been playing a game with Iroquois the past few days, and I noticed all the Mohawk Warriors I made retained their attack bonus from Forests after I promoted them to Longswordsmen, and on and on into Mechanized Infantry.

But when I upgrade my Legions, they lose the ability to build roads. Do they also lose their mild strength bonus? I'm not sure.

It seems a lot of units prove to be far more economical in the long run because they have traits that stay with them. Has anyone else noticed unique unit traits that stay, or don't stay, after promotion?

[JoshTheValiant]

There's another thread about this sort of thing right now. Apparently Cho-Nu-Ku (or whatever they were, the China UU Crossbowmen) retain their double attack, and Chariot Archers.... retain their penalty to rough terrain. D: I don't know about any others.

[Onandoga]

Most of the UU's special perk is actually a unique promotion. So it sticks with the unit. If you look on the units screen it will appear as a triangle with the details showing what the promotion is.

[JoshTheValiant]

Most of the UU's special perk is actually a unique promotion. So it sticks with the unit. If you look on the units screen it will appear as a triangle with the details showing what the promotion is.

Except that's not universally true. If a Scout is upgraded to an Archer by way of a goody hut, it does not keep the reduced movement cost for difficult terrain. Chariot Archers keep the penalty for difficult terrain when they become Knights, but Crossbowmen lose their inability to attack in melee when they become Riflemen. All of those show up in the promotions list. Theres something else going on that determines what sticks and what doesn't.

[Ash_F]

Except that's not universally true. If a Scout is upgraded to an Archer by way of a goody hut, it does not keep the reduced movement cost for difficult terrain.

I think it does. I believe I have a super fast archer somewhere. I get your point in the other examples.

[zephyrtr]

Also ... 'goody hut'?

The fact that some units retain their penalties after promotion tells me not much care went into unit promotions. There are whole units that are just NOT worth your time, Chariot Archers (and War Chariots and War Elephants) being at the top of the list.

[The Rockman]

Really IMO it be best if they deleted all of a units promotions on upgrading and let you repick (theirs a mod that does this I think).

[AlexFury]

Except that's not universally true. If a Scout is upgraded to an Archer by way of a goody hut, it does not keep the reduced movement cost for difficult terrain.

Actually, yes it does. I've never had an upgraded-scout lose the 'no terrain cost' bonus.

Also, the scout 'no terrain cost' bonus is even better than America's Minutemen one, as Scouts (and upgraded scouts) CAN use roads/railroads, compared to upgraded-from Minutemen... annoying

[Glumgar]

War Elephants actually don't have the special rough terrain penalty.

Scouts definitely do keep the special rough terrain movement when they get the special weapon upgrade to archer.

I actually enjoy that some unique units get to keep their special abilities. It ecourages unit promotion and gets the player more invested in particular units, since they become irreplaceable once you can no longer produce the original form of the UU. It's kind of sad that some UUs don't get to keep any of their specialness on upgrading, but maybe we could see that more as a balance thing than a design oversight.

[JoshTheValiant]

Okay, this many declarations of Scartchers retaining their movement bonus makes me think that something else was happening in my game that I'm not aware of. I definitely had a Scartcher that wasn't moving through hills at two per turn during my first game. Maybe there was a ZOC issue I didn't notice. :/

It'd be nice if units with penalties could gain a promotion (probably a high level promotion) that removed that penalty from them. That would probably solve the problem all by itself.

[Ash_F]

Also ... 'goody hut'?

That's what fans called them back in the civ 1 days . They used to just be a picture of a lonely thatched hut.

Also Blitz on an Egyptian war chariot is pretty good. It allows it to fire 5 times in one turn. Making it stronger than a catapult or trebuchet against cities.


I agree with most that Spear men should not have 100% defense against chariots ranged attacks though. That just does not make sense. :P

[trainzebra]

My Mohawk Warrior-Longswordsman completely shut down a rifleman invasion by hiding in forests. All that experience fighting in the trees in fullplate certainly paid off. It may not be balanced, but it's definitely fun ^_^

[Calouste]

My Mohawk Warrior-Longswordsman completely shut down a rifleman invasion by hiding in forests. All that experience fighting in the trees in fullplate certainly paid off. It may not be balanced, but it's definitely fun ^_^

It's the Iroquois Ned Kelly

[JoshTheValiant]

It's the Iroquois Ned Kelly

I see it more as a Simo Häyhä situation. One dude, hundreds to his name.

That's what fans called them back in the civ 1 days . They used to just be a picture of a lonely thatched hut.

It's also what they're called in the actual code, IIRC.