I'm curious why people hate Steam
For the last 10 years I've been too busy to play many games so I'm quite out of touch with the gaming world. I bought Civ5 and was introduced to Steam (I'm currently downloading atm).
I have read multiple threads about people who hate steam so ferociously. I would genuinely like to understand what the root cause of peoples view towards steam is.
From what I can gather so far Steam is:
* A DRM framework / appstore / multiplayer community hub created by valve.
* Is designed to replace GameSpy (community hub)
* Is designed to replace 'self rolled' DRM solutions by each game studio
People do not like steam primarily because
* They need to connect to the internet to run the game (I think)
People like steam primarily because
* You can install a game on any machine by downloading it from your steam account
From what I can gather, if someone does not like Steam it is because it is intrusive to their system (the DRM part of it).
My question is what about Steam do you hate and specifically why?
Last edited by Akusete; 10-05-2010 at 11:19 AM.
I prefer steam. So long as the steam version of the game includes only steam (and no additonal DRM.. i.e. no GFWL/Securom etc. etc. on top of the steam installation) then it is EXCELLENT.
This line of argument is particularly baffling to me, especially since it comes up so often. In most cases, the only time you're required to be online with a Steam game is when you activate it, or when the game is not fully downloaded (if it isn't marked "100% - Ready"). If you prefer, you can have Steam run in offline mode, and only switch it to online when you want to grab updates or re-download.
Originally Posted by Akusete
Have you read the forums?????
The REQUIREMENT to have Steam is what is ticking people off. Too many bad experiences with third party software.
Being offline and being prohibited from playing the game. Yes prohibited. If you didn't know you HAVE to tell Steam to go offline after game has downloaded, skip this step and go offline and you can NOT play the game. Steam has to phone home to tell them you are going offlline. If it can't phone home, you are screwed.
Then let us consider the 80% of the people in the US who don't have broadband access and bought a SINGLE player game, and have to go online.
Should we also mention that even if you bought the disk, if you don't find the instructions on the Steam forums, it will download the ENTIRE game.
Adware, if you have steam online it shows you an ad everytime you turn it on.
Why do I want to see an ad???
Steam is lousy DRM protection [then again has any DRM ever done anything exept #$#$ off legitimate customers.] The real purpose seems to be DLC. Ie. We expect are going to be sold stuff that in years past would have been part of the game. We know there are DLC's already available. Why isn't that in the game we bought? $$$$. I never cared about the fancy boxes or figures. But to have to pay for separate civilizations, I don't think so.
Originally Posted by 2K David
Ah, I turn those updates off. Open up the menu, Select Settings > Interface, and then uncheck the "Notify me..." box.
Originally Posted by Wojorides
I think a lot of people are complaining about the following:
- DRM (not realizing that most games without steam come with root kits that provide DRM, a much worse solution)
- The fact that they can not lend or resell their computer games. The purchased key remains permanently associated with the Steam account it was first paired.
- The fact that they have to be connected to the internet to use their game
- The fact that they are reliant on an external entity to play it. Their concern is what happens if Valve goes under tomorrow.
I agree with the second point. It would be nice to be able to let my stepson use my copy of Civ 5 when I am not using it, without having to give him my steam account credentials. Traditioinally software has been licenced by number of seats. I do not expect to be able to copy th egame to my friends, though when I am done with it or not using it it would be nice to be able to let them use it, thus maintaining the one seat license expectation.
Most of the resistace to Steam - however - seems highly irrational. Som people seem to have an irrational dislike for only owning a software license, rather than haing something physical to show for what they bought, not realizing that the license that came with the purchased box was more important than the box and disc itself all along.
Most people reluctantly confront change, and don't like it. It's human nature. As a species we are by our very nature irrational.
Personally I have been using steam since the early days. I got it to play the Counter-Strike Source beta (Agusut 2004) and Half Life 2 (November 2004) when they were first launched. I have to admit I had som discomfort with the concept at first, but when I realized how much easier it made my life, and how many more games become available due to the reduced costs to the developers, I left my discomfort behind.
I still wish I could resell my games, or lend them to friends, but this remains my only gripe.
Pretty soon the distiction between th elocal computer and the cloud is going to be so blurred anyway, that you won't be able to tell where your sftware resides. I have a little discomfort with this as well, but I'm sure I'll get over it.
i kinda like it, easy community and stuff
There are literally no ads if you turn them off, which is another great thing about Steam: Customization. If you want to see ads after you close a game because you're in the market for good buys, there you go, but if you don't, just turn it off and never hear from it again. Steam has BRILLIANT deals, all the time as a matter of fact.
Originally Posted by Wojorides
It's not that I hate Steam, I hate the idea of connecting to the internet to install a game I purchased in a store. I buy games in a store because I do not have internet access at home (using the work computer now). The lack of internet access is not a choice, it is just not available in rural Kansas.
You can't get access at all? Wow that's messed up. I don't think I could ever live there.
Originally Posted by curtis1821
When I went home shopping a while back I made certain that I didn't look in any neighborhoods that didn't have FIOS connectivity. That was actually my main criteria. Everything else was of less concern to me.
I think the internet has become so much of a part of most of our daily lives that most of us take for granted the fact that you can connect to it, not only while at home, but also wherever you go...
Maybe try to hack and tether your computer to your phone?
Last edited by mattlach; 10-07-2010 at 03:52 AM.
Steam is good and if you don't agree you're a bonapartist dinosaur.
No, no, no, no, and for the last time no.
Originally Posted by Wojorides
If you are "online," you can disconnect the internet and still play any game, that does not require an internet connection. Period.
When you go to start the game, it may tell you that you need to be online, all you have to do is exit steam, restart it. It will then ask you if you want to start in offline mode, and start in offline mode.
After you activate the game, you do not need to have steam be online at all. If you dont want to or dont have the ability to be online, you can simply put it into offline mode, with two clicks. No matter what you are currently doing.
Most people do not like steam, because they did not ask for it. Once you actually use steam, you really start to like it.
Most games created in the last 5 years require an internet connection. Most of them, if you do not have an internet connection, you need to buy a console.
Last edited by Draco; 10-07-2010 at 08:40 AM.
I dunno, I don't have a big problem with it per-say, but at the same time it's not exactly something GOOD.
Doesn't take a genius to know DRM doesn't work. You can download just about any game online whether it's packaged with DRM or not. However it does interfere with my use as a legitimate buyer.
Requiring internet connections to login, requiring third party software and "accounts" to "register" my purchase with some database, etc... what for?
Sure, it sounds innocent enough, but I don't have to do any of that crap when I buy a book. I don't do that when I buy a CD of music. Heck, I don't have to do it when I buy a movie. I don't even have to do that for some software!
Yet somehow games are expected to be some exception. It's considered normal and anyone who requests otherwise is just being unreasonable. Right.
I think if a big game company like 2K would just actually try selling a DRM-free version, they might find the response would actually be worthwhile publicity-wise... but as it stands there has never really been market research on the idea besides from "indie" game developers and nobody seems prepared to take that leap. So instead they're all just digging their own graves and forking over commissions to steam when they could be reaping the profits themselves.
I had no idea I was a dinosaur, thanks for opening my eyes and helping me realise it.
Originally Posted by Crezth
Steam slows my computer, and installs too much.
Believe it or not, civ 4 had very little in drm, you could copy the disc with no problem. (Before I get an infraction, IT WAS TOLD TO ME BY CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!)
Originally Posted by temporaryplaceholder
Oblivion was not drm in any way.
Both of them did very well in sales.
Because it has drm, is a reason to pirate the game, not a reason to buy the game. Some times I think they could charge more for a non drm game and actually sale them.
In saying that, it is why I like steam, it kind of takes care of the drm.
But 2kgames will always be on the front edge on installing rootkits, malware, and limit number of installs, for no reason but they think it works.
Civ IV requires the disc in the drive but I'm not sure exactly what DRM it uses. Oblivion, at least the game-of-the-year version I have uses SecuROM so there is DRM on that one.
Originally Posted by Draco
I think DRM hit the sweet-spot with Fallout 3. Disc required in the drive to alter most settings and no DRM on the main executable for anyone intelligent enough to create a shortcut. It is simply a fact that if you are tech-savvy enough to create a shortcut you are savvy enough to bypass DRM.
In the end, what will work to ensure the investment made by publishers on a title is returned? I think Stardock does it pretty well: you need to register your product and get all patches through their distribution system. Patches I think are the key. It is a fact that patches are a necessary "evil." No product makes it out the door without needing them. So, DRM the patches and go through a proprietary distribution system for them and don't require discs in the drive all the time.
Discussions on DRM won't get very far here. DRM is entrenched simply because of the wholesale theft that for a fact takes place right now. DRM won't stop anyone who is determined but it will stop people who don't know much about computers. Those people are enough of a segment that DRM is worthwhile. Where I live, Canada, there are no anti-circumvention laws - circumventing DRM is illegal in the USA.
So, on thin ice here for the discussion. Don't post instructions for circumventing DRM as that is illegal in the USA where this forum is hosted.
This is actually not correct at all.
Originally Posted by Draco
Civ 4 - at least the version I had - would not run without the disk, and a copied disk would not work.
it frustrated me a great deal back when I first tried to run it in Linux under Wine, as I had to mount an image of the disk to get it to install, but when I made an image of the original disk it did not have the copy protection on it, and refused to run.
Because Valve Killed bill
Reasons I like Steam:
- For physical copies, no disc required in my drive after installation
- Mac & PC for some games, I can just login to Steam on my Mac at work
- Cloud (and cross-platform Cloud) saved games etc for some games
- Games are owned on my account, no worry about losing, scratching disc etc.
- DRM is my account, not crap like installation limits etc
Reasons I don't like Steam:
- Downloaded games I have no physical copy to own on disc
- Future playability is not guaranteed, unlike old games I have, because:
- Games still require internet activation
- Games tied to a third party program that I have no control over
So given the alternatives, such as GFWL (horrible) or independent DRM schemes, the positives outweigh the negatives for me.
One of the reasons for me NOT liking Steam, apart from the great responses already given, is that I can't give the games away to someone else, I regularly donate my old, unwanted PC games to a charity shop (hoping others get to enjoy them like I did) but so far they are all not Steam-based games, I have several Steam games that I no longer want or like yet since I can't get rid of them they're still in my boxes.
It would be great if Steam gave you the choice to remove games from being tied to your account forever.
Last edited by Metroplex; 10-10-2010 at 04:20 PM.
Because it's a useless piece of crap bloatware that tries to destroy PC gaming by monopolizing it and taking away all control from the end user and putting it into the hands of corporate bastards.
- need for internet connections every single time you want to install the games. While that is understandable if you bought the game online, it's completely UNACCEPTABLE for the games you buy in a normal store
- games tied to an account. Loose it or get banned and 'all your games are belong to them'
- the constant insecurity of relying on their servers to play your game. If they go bankrupt who do you tink will care about the fact that you can no longer play your games?
- the only program I know that downloads crap whenever it feels like it, with no way to disable updating. Not even Windows, with giant security holes has the balls to force updates on people.
- crap offline mode that is unreliable at best and doesn't work when you actually need it
- retarded update: if your connection is lost during an update you can say bye bye to playing the game until the damn thing finishes its download.
- constant crashes and games becoming unplayable until you delete crap from the program's folder
- unplayable games: some games were broken until an article came up on kotaku and they finally repaired them after MONTHS of being broken.
- retarded anti cheat that bans honest players: over 10.000 honest players banned from modern warfare 2 because of valve and their incompetence. What if it was your account?
The list goes on but I am too disgusted by this atrocious program to continue. I hope 2k will realize the giant mistake and abandon this abomination of a bloatware in future titles.
I can see why people hate Steam
Those of you that love Steam; you need to do a little research as to just what Steam knows about you that you may not want them to know. They're in your PC & they're keeping track of you all of the time almost like google does. If you you're playing a game that wasn't purchased at Steam and you have an independent CD Key for but Steam now owns, supports, and you're on-line at Steam because you forgot to turn the Steam Internet connection off before playing the game; get ready, because Steam is going to automatically assume that it's one of their games and they're going to do everything that they can to take control of it including screw your game up.
Everyone of you should have a full version of this game on your hard drive whether you downloaded it or bought the CD. If you don't then you need to talk to whomever you got it from. The path for Civ 5 for Vista is Program File (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\sid meir's civilization 5 and in this file folder you will find the Civ 5 excutable file. To play Civ 5 in off-line SP mode go into your firewall & block all references to Steam. Blocking Steam in the firewall will force the game into SP off-line mode and after a few seconds, it should start in off-line mode.
Because people are stupid.
Last edited by mattlach; 10-11-2010 at 11:22 PM.
Actually it is. If I try to tell you how to do it, 2kforums will slap me with an infraction for repeating what customer service told me to do, and I did it.
Originally Posted by mattlach
You need the files on the disc, but you do not need the disc after you have the files on the disc.
That reason is up for interpretation. Can you please specify why you are logging into Steam at work?!
Originally Posted by Relight
Are you in a cubicle?
Confusing To Solve A Problem With Game
I would like a person or reasonably facsimally of to inter act with to solve problem of operating a game
I really hate STEAM because they can't give you a disk to install your game at your harddrive and making you wait ☺☺☺☺ load of time to play the game.
i have no problems with steam. it's easy & convenient. i'll never buy another 2k game if they don't fix bs2 on the pc though.
Originally Posted by Peachy Wilkins
Peachy, you win.
I personally feel like having a Steam account is awesome because of the community. You create your own profile page and get to network with gamers from all around the world.
I'm sure that the games can be played "offline" after initial registration. The fact that you can download your own game on multiple platforms is also pretty sweet. I really can't complain at all.
I log into my Steam account every day and I get to see what's new in the genres that I like without having to website hop to find out what's out and what's good. It's all conveniently located right under my nose when I log on to my computer complete with ratings from popular review companies and trailers.
What more can I ask for?
Nearly all can. I had a period of several months where my wireless network card died and was kept sane by checking the internet on friends' computers and playing games on Steam offline before I replaced it.
Originally Posted by Gothwarrior
reasons to love it
there is a reason I absolutely love steam, and that is: I can buy and play english versions wherever I am. Right now I am in Japan, and getting a game here is a) f**ing expensive and b) f***ing useless because it will be localized, and while I do command the language OK, I by no means would enjoy playing games in nihongo. I know expats are a minority, but probably still more than ppl without any internet connection. Also, I can easily buy and play games in english back home (austria), instead of the often badly localized and censored german versions. Much can be said about steam, but this is an advantage.
Firstly: ALL PC GAMES ARE AVAILABLE ON STEAM.
So railing on about why you like steam better is irrelevant, if you like steam...buy the game on steam.
The problem with steam integration is everyone has to go through steam, whether you have bad unreliable internet/slow internet/low cap/no internet. Everyone is forced to use a retarded third party app that has updates that frequently break offline mode or entire games ( or make you lose all your save games ).
GFWL blows chunks, but steam is far worse in my experience, and I am not talking about GFWL that requires you to register online, I am talking about GFWL that you can choose to completely ignore having an auto-offline profile where you never-ever have to use the internet.
It also creates an unhealthy monopoly, whereby certain retailers don't carry the games or other DD services don't carry it, but regardless of that, all rival methods lose out because customers are funneled through a particular service.
ANY online requirement for a game is a deal breaker for me. I am a PC only gamer I buy a crazy amount of games, but smiling while getting kicked in the teeth and labelled a pirate, or screwed around because of piracy is just B.S. Don't treat you paying customers like scum.
The argument for steam as copy protection is also insane, EVERY steam integrated game has been pirated, every single one...NO copy protection works, so just make the game good and pack it full of value so games don't go the way of the CD industry, but game execs are slightly below music execs imo with the stupid DRM moves they have made.
-Single player gamer
I actually like Steam.
Originally Posted by Akusete
By the way, how are you liking Civ V ?
Why do I hate Steam and think it's an absolute Abortion of a product? Easy.
Because it's exploitive. We all wanted to play Civ V. We were looking forward to it.
It was a pretty piece of candy dangled out of an unmarked Van.
That's why people hate it. Because it reeks of 'wrongness' to many of us. It's "not right".
It's a tricky contract that smells faintly of brimstone and requires a signature in a special red ink.
If you don't use it, you can't play. Can you think of ANY industry other than the gaming industry that behaves like that?
"If you don't allow us access to your household and your personal records you're not allowed to shop at walmart".
"Want to drive a Toyota? That requires a special one time hidden camera be set up in your living room."
People say this is hyperbole, but it's not.
If Steam didn't sell video games do you think they'd get away with this? Imagine if they sold cars... or food... or houses...
Oh, so you'd like to live in this house? Lovely, we'll need to stop in weekly to ensure everything is fine. Unfortunately, if you don't allow us to monitor your phone calls... to ensure you're a happy customer... we're not going to allow you to access your home. And we'll be sending work crews over periodically to make "changes" we feel you'll like. Nevermind that buzzing neon sign advertising "Live Nude Girls".
Though, if my house burned down, I'd love to have the chance to download it again for free.
Originally Posted by Sombrus
Originally Posted by Sombrus
I think it is more of a slippery slope argument, but really they are some fairly far fetched comparisons.
I suppose it is not for everyone.
So you'd let your insurance company spy on your family if they provided you a cash free deductible? Interesting.
Originally Posted by 2K David