I'm curious why people hate Steam

[Akusete]

For the last 10 years I've been too busy to play many games so I'm quite out of touch with the gaming world. I bought Civ5 and was introduced to Steam (I'm currently downloading atm).

I have read multiple threads about people who hate steam so ferociously. I would genuinely like to understand what the root cause of peoples view towards steam is.

From what I can gather so far Steam is:

* A DRM framework / appstore / multiplayer community hub created by valve.
* Is designed to replace GameSpy (community hub)
* Is designed to replace 'self rolled' DRM solutions by each game studio

People do not like steam primarily because
* They need to connect to the internet to run the game (I think)

People like steam primarily because
* You can install a game on any machine by downloading it from your steam account

From what I can gather, if someone does not like Steam it is because it is intrusive to their system (the DRM part of it).

My question is what about Steam do you hate and specifically why?

[yogibbear]

I prefer steam. So long as the steam version of the game includes only steam (and no additonal DRM.. i.e. no GFWL/Securom etc. etc. on top of the steam installation) then it is EXCELLENT.

[2K David]

People do not like steam primarily because
* They need to connect to the internet to run the game (I think)

This line of argument is particularly baffling to me, especially since it comes up so often. In most cases, the only time you're required to be online with a Steam game is when you activate it, or when the game is not fully downloaded (if it isn't marked "100% - Ready"). If you prefer, you can have Steam run in offline mode, and only switch it to online when you want to grab updates or re-download.

[Wojorides]

The REQUIREMENT to have Steam is what is ticking people off. Too many bad experiences with third party software.

Being offline and being prohibited from playing the game. Yes prohibited. If you didn't know you HAVE to tell Steam to go offline after game has downloaded, skip this step and go offline and you can NOT play the game. Steam has to phone home to tell them you are going offlline. If it can't phone home, you are screwed.

Then let us consider the 80% of the people in the US who don't have broadband access and bought a SINGLE player game, and have to go online.

Should we also mention that even if you bought the disk, if you don't find the instructions on the Steam forums, it will download the ENTIRE game.

Adware, if you have steam online it shows you an ad everytime you turn it on.
Why do I want to see an ad???

Steam is lousy DRM protection [then again has any DRM ever done anything exept #$#$ off legitimate customers.] The real purpose seems to be DLC. Ie. We expect are going to be sold stuff that in years past would have been part of the game. We know there are DLC's already available. Why isn't that in the game we bought? $$$$. I never cared about the fancy boxes or figures. But to have to pay for separate civilizations, I don't think so.

This line of argument is particularly baffling to me, especially since it comes up so often. In most cases, the only time you're required to be online with a Steam game is when you activate it, or when the game is not fully downloaded (if it isn't marked "100% - Ready"). If you prefer, you can have Steam run in offline mode, and only switch it to online when you want to grab updates or re-download.

[2K David]

Adware, if you have steam online it shows you an ad everytime you turn it on.
Why do I want to see an ad???

Ah, I turn those updates off. Open up the menu, Select Settings > Interface, and then uncheck the "Notify me..." box.

[mattlach]

I think a lot of people are complaining about the following:

• DRM (not realizing that most games without steam come with root kits that provide DRM, a much worse solution)
• The fact that they can not lend or resell their computer games. The purchased key remains permanently associated with the Steam account it was first paired.
• The fact that they have to be connected to the internet to use their game
• The fact that they are reliant on an external entity to play it. Their concern is what happens if Valve goes under tomorrow.

I agree with the second point. It would be nice to be able to let my stepson use my copy of Civ 5 when I am not using it, without having to give him my steam account credentials. Traditioinally software has been licenced by number of seats. I do not expect to be able to copy th egame to my friends, though when I am done with it or not using it it would be nice to be able to let them use it, thus maintaining the one seat license expectation.

Most of the resistace to Steam - however - seems highly irrational. Som people seem to have an irrational dislike for only owning a software license, rather than haing something physical to show for what they bought, not realizing that the license that came with the purchased box was more important than the box and disc itself all along.

Most people reluctantly confront change, and don't like it. It's human nature. As a species we are by our very nature irrational.

Personally I have been using steam since the early days. I got it to play the Counter-Strike Source beta (Agusut 2004) and Half Life 2 (November 2004) when they were first launched. I have to admit I had som discomfort with the concept at first, but when I realized how much easier it made my life, and how many more games become available due to the reduced costs to the developers, I left my discomfort behind.

I still wish I could resell my games, or lend them to friends, but this remains my only gripe.

Pretty soon the distiction between th elocal computer and the cloud is going to be so blurred anyway, that you won't be able to tell where your sftware resides. I have a little discomfort with this as well, but I'm sure I'll get over it.

[egie9]

i kinda like it, easy community and stuff

[Doomish]

Adware, if you have steam online it shows you an ad everytime you turn it on.
Why do I want to see an ad???

There are literally no ads if you turn them off, which is another great thing about Steam: Customization. If you want to see ads after you close a game because you're in the market for good buys, there you go, but if you don't, just turn it off and never hear from it again. Steam has BRILLIANT deals, all the time as a matter of fact.

[curtis1821]

It's not that I hate Steam, I hate the idea of connecting to the internet to install a game I purchased in a store. I buy games in a store because I do not have internet access at home (using the work computer now). The lack of internet access is not a choice, it is just not available in rural Kansas.

[mattlach]

It's not that I hate Steam, I hate the idea of connecting to the internet to install a game I purchased in a store. I buy games in a store because I do not have internet access at home (using the work computer now). The lack of internet access is not a choice, it is just not available in rural Kansas.

You can't get access at all? Wow that's messed up. I don't think I could ever live there.

When I went home shopping a while back I made certain that I didn't look in any neighborhoods that didn't have FIOS connectivity. That was actually my main criteria. Everything else was of less concern to me.

I think the internet has become so much of a part of most of our daily lives that most of us take for granted the fact that you can connect to it, not only while at home, but also wherever you go...

Maybe try to hack and tether your computer to your phone?

[Draco]

Being offline and being prohibited from playing the game. Yes prohibited. If you didn't know you HAVE to tell Steam to go offline after game has downloaded, skip this step and go offline and you can NOT play the game.

No, no, no, no, and for the last time no.

If you are "online," you can disconnect the internet and still play any game, that does not require an internet connection. Period.

When you go to start the game, it may tell you that you need to be online, all you have to do is exit steam, restart it. It will then ask you if you want to start in offline mode, and start in offline mode.

After you activate the game, you do not need to have steam be online at all. If you dont want to or dont have the ability to be online, you can simply put it into offline mode, with two clicks. No matter what you are currently doing.

Most people do not like steam, because they did not ask for it. Once you actually use steam, you really start to like it.

to curtis1821,

Most games created in the last 5 years require an internet connection. Most of them, if you do not have an internet connection, you need to buy a console.

[temporaryplaceholder]

I dunno, I don't have a big problem with it per-say, but at the same time it's not exactly something GOOD.

Doesn't take a genius to know DRM doesn't work. You can download just about any game online whether it's packaged with DRM or not. However it does interfere with my use as a legitimate buyer.

Requiring internet connections to login, requiring third party software and "accounts" to "register" my purchase with some database, etc... what for?

Sure, it sounds innocent enough, but I don't have to do any of that crap when I buy a book. I don't do that when I buy a CD of music. Heck, I don't have to do it when I buy a movie. I don't even have to do that for some software!

Yet somehow games are expected to be some exception. It's considered normal and anyone who requests otherwise is just being unreasonable. Right.

I think if a big game company like 2K would just actually try selling a DRM-free version, they might find the response would actually be worthwhile publicity-wise... but as it stands there has never really been market research on the idea besides from "indie" game developers and nobody seems prepared to take that leap. So instead they're all just digging their own graves and forking over commissions to steam when they could be reaping the profits themselves.

[Draco]

I think if a big game company like 2K would just actually try selling a DRM-free version,

Believe it or not, civ 4 had very little in drm, you could copy the disc with no problem. (Before I get an infraction, IT WAS TOLD TO ME BY CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!)

Oblivion was not drm in any way.

Both of them did very well in sales.

Because it has drm, is a reason to pirate the game, not a reason to buy the game. Some times I think they could charge more for a non drm game and actually sale them.

In saying that, it is why I like steam, it kind of takes care of the drm.

But 2kgames will always be on the front edge on installing rootkits, malware, and limit number of installs, for no reason but they think it works.

[_Pax_]

.... frelling Thread Necromancy ...

[headkase]

.... frelling Thread Necromancy ...

Yes, I stopped counting at three times this thread has been necrobumped since 2010.

If anyone would like to further discuss this topic please create a new thread, optionally link to this one, and summarize the important parts to yourself out of this thread. That way, in a new thread, people don't have to read through 78 comments just to be up to speed for yours.

Closing under Guideline #11.

[jxw207]

Those of you that love Steam; you need to do a little research as to just what Steam knows about you that you may not want them to know. They're in your PC & they're keeping track of you all of the time almost like google does. If you you're playing a game that wasn't purchased at Steam and you have an independent CD Key for but Steam now owns, supports, and you're on-line at Steam because you forgot to turn the Steam Internet connection off before playing the game; get ready, because Steam is going to automatically assume that it's one of their games and they're going to do everything that they can to take control of it including screw your game up.

Everyone of you should have a full version of this game on your hard drive whether you downloaded it or bought the CD. If you don't then you need to talk to whomever you got it from. The path for Civ 5 for Vista is Program File (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\sid meir's civilization 5 and in this file folder you will find the Civ 5 excutable file. To play Civ 5 in off-line SP mode go into your firewall & block all references to Steam. Blocking Steam in the firewall will force the game into SP off-line mode and after a few seconds, it should start in off-line mode.

[Peachy Wilkins]

Because people are stupid.

[kAMIAH]

I would like a person or reasonably facsimally of to inter act with to solve problem of operating a game

[ElitesamuraI26]

I really hate STEAM because they can't give you a disk to install your game at your harddrive and making you wait ☺☺☺☺ load of time to play the game.

[boxcarbully]

i have no problems with steam. it's easy & convenient. i'll never buy another 2k game if they don't fix bs2 on the pc though.

[RaptureWillBeReborn]

Because people are stupid.

This.

Peachy, you win.

[Gothwarrior]

I personally feel like having a Steam account is awesome because of the community. You create your own profile page and get to network with gamers from all around the world.
I'm sure that the games can be played "offline" after initial registration. The fact that you can download your own game on multiple platforms is also pretty sweet. I really can't complain at all.
I log into my Steam account every day and I get to see what's new in the genres that I like without having to website hop to find out what's out and what's good. It's all conveniently located right under my nose when I log on to my computer complete with ratings from popular review companies and trailers.
What more can I ask for?

[dchalfont]

Firstly: ALL PC GAMES ARE AVAILABLE ON STEAM.

So railing on about why you like steam better is irrelevant, if you like steam...buy the game on steam.

*BUT*

The problem with steam integration is everyone has to go through steam, whether you have bad unreliable internet/slow internet/low cap/no internet. Everyone is forced to use a retarded third party app that has updates that frequently break offline mode or entire games ( or make you lose all your save games ).

GFWL blows chunks, but steam is far worse in my experience, and I am not talking about GFWL that requires you to register online, I am talking about GFWL that you can choose to completely ignore having an auto-offline profile where you never-ever have to use the internet.

It also creates an unhealthy monopoly, whereby certain retailers don't carry the games or other DD services don't carry it, but regardless of that, all rival methods lose out because customers are funneled through a particular service.

ANY online requirement for a game is a deal breaker for me. I am a PC only gamer I buy a crazy amount of games, but smiling while getting kicked in the teeth and labelled a pirate, or screwed around because of piracy is just B.S. Don't treat you paying customers like scum.

The argument for steam as copy protection is also insane, EVERY steam integrated game has been pirated, every single one...NO copy protection works, so just make the game good and pack it full of value so games don't go the way of the CD industry, but game execs are slightly below music execs imo with the stupid DRM moves they have made.

-Single player gamer

[aeligos]

For the last 10 years I've been too busy to play many games so I'm quite out of touch with the gaming world. I bought Civ5 and was introduced to Steam (I'm currently downloading atm).

I actually like Steam.

By the way, how are you liking Civ V ?

-.-

[Sombrus]

Why do I hate Steam and think it's an absolute Abortion of a product? Easy.

Because it's exploitive. We all wanted to play Civ V. We were looking forward to it.

It was a pretty piece of candy dangled out of an unmarked Van.



That's why people hate it. Because it reeks of 'wrongness' to many of us. It's "not right".

It's a tricky contract that smells faintly of brimstone and requires a signature in a special red ink.



If you don't use it, you can't play. Can you think of ANY industry other than the gaming industry that behaves like that?

"If you don't allow us access to your household and your personal records you're not allowed to shop at walmart".

"Want to drive a Toyota? That requires a special one time hidden camera be set up in your living room."


People say this is hyperbole, but it's not.


If Steam didn't sell video games do you think they'd get away with this? Imagine if they sold cars... or food... or houses...


Oh, so you'd like to live in this house? Lovely, we'll need to stop in weekly to ensure everything is fine. Unfortunately, if you don't allow us to monitor your phone calls... to ensure you're a happy customer... we're not going to allow you to access your home. And we'll be sending work crews over periodically to make "changes" we feel you'll like. Nevermind that buzzing neon sign advertising "Live Nude Girls".

[2K David]

If Steam didn't sell video games do you think they'd get away with this? Imagine if they sold cars... or food... or houses...

Though, if my house burned down, I'd love to have the chance to download it again for free.

[Sombrus]

Though, if my house burned down, I'd love to have the chance to download it again for free.

So you'd let your insurance company spy on your family if they provided you a cash free deductible? Interesting.

[I-ChooseTheImpossible]

So you'd let your insurance company spy on your family if they provided you a cash free deductible? Interesting.

Explain how Steam spies on your family?

[Dekieon]

Lets not forget about hacking...hackers are hacking all the online accounts everywhere, and the user gets blamed for the lack of security on the server. Why would steam be any exception to hacking.

How about his senerio...

A steam account gets hacked.
The hacker logs in and cheats on that hacked account
The person who owns that account, now has a banned VAC status
The person has just lost all their games, they can no longer play unless they go buy new copies, put those new copies on a new steam account, which could be hacked again.

I hate steam and will not buy any more games which use steam or any game that forces me to go online to play or install. All the game companies know it doesn't hurt the pirates, it just hurts the paying customers. The pirates just hack out the copy protection, and it really isn't that hard to do if you understand computer code. A CD-Key is sufficient for online multiplayer, and as for the the single player component ... well if someone wanted to play it for free there are plenty of ways to do that without a hacked copy anyways (such as borrowing it from a friend).

[MichaelX]

I am new to these forums but I personally love steam, I have nothing against the fact that you have to be online in order to play your games because my internet is connected 24/7 (and I think it is available for most of the people. What's bad that Steam became a monopoly? I really like that Valve created this industry - they earn a lot of money and they create awesome services for that.

[Shades]

I've always liked Steam. Without it, I might have never played games like Team Fortress 2.

[FtRapture]

People say this is hyperbole, but it's not.

I think it is more of a slippery slope argument, but really they are some fairly far fetched comparisons.

I suppose it is not for everyone.

[aeligos]

Go with Impulse....much better.

-.-

[2K David]

Moving this over to the new Video Games forum.

[Vipulcoolrule]

hmm one more reason is that it takes much time to load.
People who have bad net connection get annoyed by it because it takes sometime more than 10 minutes
Since I have 512kbps net speed, It takes 2 minutes for me too.
When my speed was 100kbps, it was taking more time
All dont have good net connection, Requires good money for it

But

The steam software is very good for chating and playing games after chating
Its good to relax for sometime. Better than other softwares like xfire cuz it gives gaming +
We can surf homepage of steam and check out other exciting game to play as demo or to buy

PS: I dont hate it

[Neighbor Dave]

Here's why;
1. Support staff is excellent but WAY understaffed. It is sometimes DAYS to get a response.
2. To play the game requires the Steam software, which sometimes goofs and can't start the game or doesn't have the perms set correctly, or continuously installs a service pack when you start a game.
3. Valve's Steam forums are pretty bad - 60 seconds between searches? 24-72 hours to activate your account? Man that's frustrating.

That's about it. I like all the other providers better.

[Neighbor Dave]

Oh and the final caveat - if they decide they don't like you at Steam and ban your account, you lose ALL your video games purchased through them. Sounds like a future class-action lawsuit to me.

[Fugue]

if they decide they don't like you at Steam and ban your account, you lose ALL your video games purchased through them.

why would they just decide not to like you?

do the staff at Steam ban people becasue they are bored? or maybe some other reason.....

apart from the odd issue installing a game (which took about 30 secs to fix) I've never had a problem with Steam, and I don't buy all the stupid conspiracy theories.

there is no perfect solution, one persons "better provider" will also have people who don't like that, Steam is established and popular, I really dont know why consumers expect publishers to stop using it.

[ShinsFortress]

I don't like Steam. I prefer to buy something and own a physical medium (e.g. a disc) and thus actually possess something. Plus, having Steam on my computer is just yet another application using up resources I don't need or want used up.

[Hadocus Pocus]

Steam is spyware it spies on you and steals your credits cards.
Sometimes it works awesome though like on MW2, because MW2 disabled the spyware because EA paid Steam to tell VALVE to disable their spyware for MW2.