Proof from majority of voters that Civ 5 has been dumbed down...

[KingYosef]

A poll with over 1,500 votes from Civ fans that proves the majority agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down... http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=381961

View Poll Results: Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumb down?
Yes - 783, 50.03%
No - 642, 41.02%
Undecided - 140, 8.95%
Voters: 1,565.

UPDATE ON POLL (9/25): As you can see, more than 1 in every 4 players think that Civ 5 has been dumb down. Numbers don't lie, this release is below Civ par.
UPDATE ON POLL (9/27): Now the numbers continue to rise as 33 percent - 1 in every 3 players agree that Civ 5 has been dumb down, while 11 percent are uncertain.
UPDATE ON POLL (9/28): The numbers continues to rise for those who believe that Civ 5 has been dumb down to a now 37 percent. Undecided still sits at 11 percent, while 52 percent are opposed.
UPDATE ON POLL (9/30): With the numbers still rising, now 40 percent of users think that Civ 5 has been dumb down with roughly ten percent undecided! That means only 1 in 2 users actually think there is no dumbing down of the Civ 5 game! Have us skeptics been wrong? Or is it only a matter of time before one realizes that the game is dumb down?
UPDATE ON POLL (10/1): Yes, you guessed it! The numbers continue to even out for those who think the game has been dumb down, which now sits at 41.19 percent. The number of undecided is at 10.18%, while those who don't think it has been dumb down now drops below the 50 percent mark to 48.63%. At this rate the majority will think the game has been dumb down will even with the opposite view in less than a week. Stay tuned...
UPDATE ON POLL (10/3): The trend continues as it has been over a week now since Civ 5 has been released and the poll numbers are showing that users continue to agree that Civ 5 has been dumbed down. Out of a 1,045 voters, 44.31% now agree that Civ 5 has been dumbed down, while the declining 45.36% disagree. The number undecided holds steady at 10.33%.
UPDATE ON POLL (10/5): Well, we saw this coming. Now the majority of voters at 45.23% agree that Civ 5 has in fact been dumbed down. Those that disagree sit at 44.90%, while undecided declines also to 9.88%.
UPDATE ON POLL (10/7): Here is the most recent poll results; Yes - 47.19%, No - 43.35%, Undecided - 9.45%
That is less than 3% needed to take the majority, more than 50%, who agree that Civ 5 has been dumbed down.
UPDATE ON POLL (10/9): The trend continues in favor of Civ 5 being dumbed down... Yes - 48.78%, No - 41.96%, Undecided - 9.26%, Out of 1,480 Voters
UPDATE ON POLL (10/11): The results now showing a Majority of 50.03% agree that Civ 5 has been dumbed down, while those who disagree at 41.02%. Undecided now sits at 8.95%. Out of 1,565 voters.

1. I have always felt like I have been in control while playing the Civ game. Civ 5 has me feeling like someone is holding my hand throughout the whole game as I'm being fed a choose your own adventure bedtime story. I just found myself hitting the next turn button without much to focus on or manage. Very disappointing.

2. Don't like the city states, or atleast how they are implemented too much into the game. They are just annoying and uninteresting.

3. Bring back religion. They should have just improved on this feature instead of omitting it. Omitting religion from Civ is like omitting the egg in an omelet.

4. They took away almost all the great features. I'm talking about: vassal states, tech trading, map trading, diplomacy, espionage, religion, health/sickness, random events, scenarios, wonder animations, end-game cinematics, and culture, research, and commerce sliders. This is just the ones that I can recall off the top of my head.

5. Also, civics. Now civics has merely become a ladder of perks that you upgrade. Has absolutely no flexibility. These are features that kept your mind buzzing as your culture advances into each era. If I want a barbaric Civ I should be able to choose so... at any time I wish, and any point in the game.

In conclusion, I'll be setting this game on the shelf and hoping for a big change. As for now, I can just go and play my PS3 and get the same feeling from a console game. Before anyone decides to flame me and call me names for posting this fact, just keep in mind that I have been a Civ player since I bought my first copy of Civ 1 in the early 90's.

[wayninja]

Last I checked, over 50% is majority...

[KingYosef]

Last I checked, over 50% is majority...

EDIT: UPDATE ON POLL (10/11): The results now showing a Majority of 50.03% agree that Civ 5 has been dumbed down, while those who disagree at 41.02%. Undecided now sits at 8.95%. Out of 1,565 voters.

[wayninja]

Check again, there are 3 categories with the majority percentage agreeing that Civ 5 has been dumbed down.

Largest faction<>majority... I don't need to check again...

A 'majority' is well defined. If you want to claim the majority feel it's dumbed down or are undecided, that would be accurate. But the same is true for not dumbed down or undecided.

[Jerieth]

I find it funny how so many posts here end up in grammatical or definition of the word discussions...hah.

[KingYosef]

Largest faction<>majority... I don't need to check again...

A 'majority' is well defined. If you want to claim the majority feel it's dumbed down or are undecided, that would be accurate. But the same is true for not dumbed down or undecided.

I don't blame you for ignoring the elephant in the forum. The fact is, the number of voters that agree Civ 5 has been dumbed down, EXCEEDS that of those who disagree. Period.

UPDATE ON POLL (10/11): The results now showing a Majority of 50.03% agree that Civ 5 has been dumbed down, while those who disagree at 41.02%. Undecided now sits at 8.95%. Out of 1,565 voters.

[Rindill]

Civ V hasn't been dumbed down. The game is less fun, and you have less to do, and the AI sure has been made dumb but the game itself hasn't been dumbed down.

[johnjacob]

I find it funny how so many posts here end up in grammatical or definition of the word discussions...hah.

Grammatical accuracy is very important to communicating thoughts and ideas.

It's the difference between

"I helped my uncle Jack, off a horse"

and

"I helped my uncle jack off a horse"

[KingYosef]

I find it funny how so many posts here end up in grammatical or definition of the word discussions...hah.

lol, I know. It's done to argue away from the original position with another argument in semantics.

[FlyByNight]

A poll, especially a poll of only 1000 people, does not equal 'proof' that the game itself has been dumbed down.

It only 'proves' that there are people that 'think' the game has been dumbed down. It's their opinion.

[wayninja]

lol, I know. It's done to argue away from the original position with another argument in semantics.

No, it's done to clarify the argument so that you don't go around making incorrect statements and passing them off as fact.

What is the point of this thread other than to self-promote your other threads? If you want to make a poll here, make a poll.

[johnjacob]

I don't blame you for ignoring the elephant in the forum. The fact is, the number of voters that agree Civ 5 has been dumbed down, EXCEEDS that of those who disagree. Period.

You're correct. But then we must ascertain if the voting pool is an accurate reflection of reality. Then we have to make sure the poll isn't biased: whats the point in manufacturing numbers just to point out what you already think?

1) Poll is on an internet forum. Forums get more traffic from upset people than they do positive people.
2) Poll is biased. Poll says "Who else agrees Civ5 is dumbed down". The poller is already priming the polled.
3) There have been numerous other polls on these very forums which show different data.

I don't blame you for seeing an elephant when you want to. The fact is, the number of people enjoying the game EXCEEDS that of those who spend their time fussing on forums. Period.

[Draco]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."- Mark Twain.

[Jerieth]

I don't blame you for seeing an elephant when you want to. The fact is, the number of people enjoying the game EXCEEDS that of those who spend their time fussing on forums. Period.

I only say this because you mentioned the importance of accuracy and findings backed with data.

This may be true, but you cannot say with 100% certainty it is a fact. I have seen three groups on this forum: people that like the game, people that dislike the game, and people that are undecided. What I don't understand is why people who like the game post often on this forum, because if your logic is correct that shouldn't be true.

[KingYosef]

You're correct. But then we must ascertain if the voting pool is an accurate reflection of reality. Then we have to make sure the poll isn't biased: whats the point in manufacturing numbers just to point out what you already think?

1) Poll is on an internet forum. Forums get more traffic from upset people than they do positive people.
2) Poll is biased. Poll says "Who else agrees Civ5 is dumbed down". The poller is already priming the polled.
3) There have been numerous other polls on these very forums which show different data.

I don't blame you for seeing an elephant when you want to. The fact is, the number of people enjoying the game EXCEEDS that of those who spend their time fussing on forums. Period.

Until you can provide your own poll then what makes your statement anymore valid than mine? It's just your opinion. I have over a thousand votes to back up mine.

[KingYosef]

I only say this because you mentioned the importance of accuracy and findings backed with data.

This may be true, but you cannot say with 100% certainty it is a fact. I have seen three groups on this forum: people that like the game, people that dislike the game, and people that are undecided. What I don't understand is why people who like the game post often on this forum, because if your logic is correct that shouldn't be true.

Because they are using their right as a consumer to express their frustration on a product that falls below the mark.

[wayninja]

Until you can provide your own poll then what makes your statement anymore valid than mine? It's just your opinion. I have over a thousand votes to back up mine.

See? Here's another simple grammatical mistake that makes it sound so much more grandiose. You don't have a thousand votes to back up your statement... you have a little over 500.

[Schiltrom]

You're correct. But then we must ascertain if the voting pool is an accurate reflection of reality. Then we have to make sure the poll isn't biased: whats the point in manufacturing numbers just to point out what you already think?

1) Poll is on an internet forum. Forums get more traffic from upset people than they do positive people.
2) Poll is biased. Poll says "Who else agrees Civ5 is dumbed down". The poller is already priming the polled.
3) There have been numerous other polls on these very forums which show different data.

I don't blame you for seeing an elephant when you want to. The fact is, the number of people enjoying the game EXCEEDS that of those who spend their time fussing on forums. Period.

Hey everyone, I have been Lurking this forum for a long time now, but johnjacobs post was SO brilliant, I had to post. I just love how he goes twenty different kinds of freudian on you all, while still maintaining the subject. Bravo to you good sir. Carry on gents.

[Jerieth]

See? Here's another simple grammatical mistake that makes it sound so much more grandiose. You don't have a thousand votes to back up your statement... you have a little over 500.

To be more accurate, Over 1000 people voted in the poll, but only around 500 agreed it was dumbed down.

To your defense wayninja, I do believe that this poll proves more that opinions are split than people thinking the game is dumbed down.

[KingYosef]

See? Here's another simple grammatical mistake that makes it sound so much more grandiose. You don't have a thousand votes to back up your statement... you have a little over 500.

No, I have over a thousand total voters, which says a lot to the position in the lead.

[johnjacob]

/bow

[KingYosef]

To be more accurate, Over 1000 people voted in the poll, but only around 500 agreed it was dumbed down.

To your defense wayninja, I do believe that this poll proves more that opinions are split than people thinking the game is dumbed down.

The main point is, I have been hearing from many proponents that those who think that the game is dumbed down are just whiners.

Well, here is the numbers to back up that we are not just whiners, we are a leading force of dissatisfied customers of a product that we believe has been dumbed down in respect to the overall series.

[inseeisyou]

OP you are referring to a "plurality" not a "majority".

[Roadreaction]

Having played CIV III and CIV IV, The political and cultural side of this game seems dumbed down/ gone. However the combat is much better in civ V than the previous games. CIV III and CIV IV had terrible combat, massive unit stacking and retarded wars won by RNG.

I'd like to see the AI overhauled and some of the political and culutral elements of the game tweaked.

[wayninja]

No, I have over a thousand total voters, which says a lot to the position in the lead.

Yes, a thousand total voters, most of whom do not support your original statement. You are playing word games again.

[Jerieth]

Having played CIV III and CIV IV, The political and cultural side of this game seems dumbed down/ gone. However the combat is much better in civ V than the previous games. CIV III and CIV IV had terrible combat, massive unit stacking and retarded wars won by RNG.

I'd like to see the AI overhauled and some of the political and culutral elements of the game tweaked.

I agree. I think the socioeconomic factors have been simplified to a point where some may consider it dumbed down, while combat has been re-worked.

[wayninja]

The main point is, I have been hearing from many proponents that those who think that the game is dumbed down are just whiners.

Well, here is the numbers to back up that we are not just whiners, we are a leading force of dissatisfied customers of a product that we believe has been dumbed down in respect to the overall series.

You can make all the polls you want. Some people are still just whiners. Especially people who pimp their own posts.

Also, your poll doesn't say anything about being a dissatisfied customer. There you go playing word wizard again.

[johnjacob]

No, I have over a thousand total voters, which says a lot to the position in the lead.

Quantity of tallied beliefs has no bearing on reality. When the measuring tool is inaccurate you can't accuratlely measure reality.

For many years, due to inaccurate measuring tools, mankind thought the universe revolved around the earth. We know this to be false now.

So you'd be correct to say "More people believe what I believe than what you believe based on this inadequate measure". But there is no correlation between that and "What I believe is correct" and its foolish to argue "What I believe is correct because more people believe it".

[KingYosef]

Yes, a thousand total voters, most of whom do not support your original statement. You are playing word games again.

No I'm not, quit putting words into my statements.

I said out of a thousand voters it says a lot to the group in the LEAD.

No word games, just plain numbers.

UPDATE ON POLL (10/11): The results now showing a Majority of 50.03% agree that Civ 5 has been dumbed down, while those who disagree at 41.02%. Undecided now sits at 8.95%. Out of 1,565 voters.

[KingYosef]

Quantity of tallied beliefs has no bearing on reality. When the measuring tool is inaccurate you can't accuratlely measure reality.

For many years, due to inaccurate measuring tools, mankind thought the universe revolved around the earth. We know this to be false now.

So you'd be correct to say "More people believe what I believe than what you believe based on this inadequate measure". But there is no correlation between that and "What I believe is correct" and its foolish to argue "What I believe is correct because more people believe it".

Talks cheap, make a poll and prove me wrong.

[FlyByNight]

we are not just whiners, we are a leading force of dissatisfied customers of a product that we believe has been dumbed down in respect to the overall series.

There you go making claims where you have no basis in fact. You and 500 others are NOT a 'leading force'. You and 500 others are a small drop in the great big pool of Civ 5 players. Today alone there were almost 41,000 people that played Civ 5.

So please stop with the 'leading force' and 'majority of players' type of phrases.

[wayninja]

No I'm not, quit putting words into my statements.

I said out of a thousand voters it says a lot to the group in the LEAD.

No word games, just plain numbers.

Until you can provide your own poll then what makes your statement anymore valid than mine? It's just your opinion. I have over a thousand votes to back up mine.

Looks to me like you said you have a thousand votes to backup your opinion. You do not. I did not put these words into your digital mouth. More word games.

[Jerieth]

You can make all the polls you want. Some people are still just whiners. Especially people who pimp their own posts.

Also, your poll doesn't say anything about being a dissatisfied customer. There you go playing word wizard again.

Is there anything you DON'T like about Civ 5?

[KingYosef]

There you go making claims where you have no basis in fact. You and 500 others are NOT a 'leading force'. You and 500 others are a small drop in the great big pool of Civ 5 players. Today alone there were almost 41,000 people that played Civ 5.

So please stop with the 'leading force' and 'majority of players' type of phrases.

Again, this poll was not faked. If you want to prove something other than your own opinion, then start another poll.

[johnjacob]

Talks cheap, make a poll and prove me wrong.

Your response just made my brain hurt and made my heart sad for people.

You suggest me make a poll to validate my post when my post concerns polls don't validate anything.

But at this point I could just have fun with you.


--------POLL--------

Who thinks my post is correct

Out of 384,392,239.3 voters

111%: The post is valid

-250%: The post is valid

--------END POLL---------


There we go my friend. My poll had many more voters than yours did, since "voter" doesn't have any definition when it comes to an internet forum poll.

And the voters in my poll show an unnaturally extreme favor that my post is valid. Infact the poll shows that there is a vacuum of people who did no choose the first response, yet it shows that even in that vacuum they still agree with the post.

Hey, its an internet poll: The only thing that matters is the numbers right? And mine has more than you, making me the victor

[Jerieth]

Your response just made my brain hurt and made my heart sad for people.

You suggest me make a poll to validate my post when my post concerns polls don't validate anything.

But at this point I could just have fun with you.


--------POLL--------

Who thinks my post is correct

Out of 384,392,239.3 voters

111%: The post is valid

-250%: The post is valid

--------END POLL---------


There we go my friend. My poll had many more voters than yours did, since "voter" doesn't have any definition when it comes to an internet forum poll.

And the voters in my poll show an unnaturally extreme favor that my post is valid. Infact the poll shows that there is a vacuum of people who did no choose the first response, yet it shows that even in that vacuum they still agree with the post.

Hey, its an internet poll: The only thing that matters is the numbers right? And mine has more than you, making me the victor

I think this would be more humorous if right after your post you had this:

JohnJacob1 - yes I totally Agree
JohnJacob2 - this Post is valid!
JohnJacob3 - VALID
JohnJacob4 - meh...
JohnJacob - See a majority of people agree with me

[KingYosef]

Looks to me like you said you have a thousand votes to backup your opinion. You do not. I did not put these words into your digital mouth. More word games.

Again, all thousand voters have more bearing on the leading group. If the poll was only people that agree with me then it would be highly suspect. The fact that the poll is almost split show more validity toward the victor. That is why I said I have over a thousand voters as each voter contributes to whom is the the leader whether they vote yay or nay. Get it?

[wayninja]

Is there anything you DON'T like about Civ 5?

Sure, there's lot of stuff I don't like. Not sure what that has to do with stupid polls that prove nothing other than who can scream loudest.

[Jerieth]

Sure, there's lot of stuff I don't like. Not sure what that has to do with stupid polls that prove nothing other than who can scream loudest.

I was just curious, because its good to hear that you are not 100% on the extreme, it would discount your opinion for me.

[johnjacob]

I think this would be more humorous if right after your post you had this:

JohnJacob1 - yes I totally Agree
JohnJacob2 - this Post is valid!
JohnJacob3 - VALID
JohnJacob4 - meh...
JohnJacob - See a majority of people agree with me

oh man I should have thought of that