Improving bonus resources

[Saurus the Second]

I'm trying out the demo and right now I'm seriously confused.

A city of mine has access to a bonus resource - sheep!
Well, that's nice.

Both the PDF-manual and in-game help says it increases my food output by 1.
Well, fine then.

Then I'm suggested to build a pasture there.
Manual and in--game help says Tile yield after improvement: None.

I mean ... what??

Should it not be equally as effective to build a farm on that spot instead?
Additionally, farms get improved over time. A pasture does not.

Does this not mean, that a tile with a bonus resourse is a "downgrade" of the tile, not a bonus-tile?

Additionally, PDF-manual and in-game help both says that almost all strategic, luxury + bonus tiles all yields the same bonus output.
That´s very boring. In that case every bonus resource could actually be a Sheep. There would be less confusion.

But then of course, maybe still not... according to my understanding, Sheeps does not thrive in the middle of a large dessert so should not appear there like they do in my current game. (anyone heard of sand-eating Sheeps?)

I would also like to have a larger number of bonus resources, all with their own benefit - some of them more beneficial than others - as it has been all the way since Civ I.

A littel bit more attention and imagination here, programmers, please!!

Otherwise, the demo seems nice though.
Diplomacy does not make any sence to me yet - Bismarck ask me to work togheter against the Egyptians - but how to tell a thruth from a lie???

Well, maybe I will learn in time

[SheckyS]

This is very interesting. I had not noticed this, but I think you might have a point here.

If you don't build a pasture on the sheep, then you don't actually get access to the "sheep" resource. But since you cannot trade bonus resources with other civs, anyway, there's really no point that I can see in having sheep at all. Perhaps there's some other bonus that your civ gets for having a bonus resource. In Civ IV, having sheep made all your citizens healthier, but the entire concept of health seems to have been removed from Civ V.

But even if there is a benefit for having Sheep, the manual says you cannot trade Bonus resources to other civs, so there would still be no point in having more than one sheep.

We must be missing something here. Is it really possible that Bonus resources are completely pointless?

[Hythian]

We must be missing something here. Is it really possible that Bonus resources are completely pointless?

It is seeming that way with Sheep & Cattle at least because the bonus for them with a pasture doesn't seem any better then a farm on that same terrain, and farms get better later in the game with advancements in technology.

Wheat is still good, because you get it via a Farm so they actually stack.

Deer on Tundra or in Forests are still good because the Camp bonus makes those tiles a bit better, but Deer on Hills without forests may still be better off with a Farm if you really want the food from that tile.

Bananas I guess are good if you'd rather have the Food in that jungle square (and potentially Science later in the game from the Jungle) rather then clearing it and getting some production (since if I remember right clearing a Jungle turns it into a Plain).

But yeah... Seems like Sheep & Cattle need some sort of later game Pasture bonus that I don't seem to recall them getting to make them actually more useful then just ignoring them and farming the square.

[GrimDanfango]

Sheep/Cattle/etc/etc used to give a health bonus, but health is out now. Are they purely a food-only bonus now? Surely there must be some other application they're used for, something where having one-of-each and resource trading is a benefit?

[Hythian]

Sheep/Cattle/etc/etc used to give a health bonus, but health is out now. Are they purely a food-only bonus now? Surely there must be some other application they're used for, something where having one-of-each and resource trading is a benefit?

You can't trade the bonus resources either, they are just a tile improvement which in theory improves the output of working that tile.

If there was still a health mechanic in-game, or if they somehow improved with later game technologies, they would be worthwhile.

But right now the +1 Food for a square with Sheep+Pasture isn't any better than the +1 Food from a Farm (and ignoring the Sheep) and later in the game Farms improve to provide more food and Pastures don't seem to.

It's like there needs to be a Ranching tech or building that can improve Pastures to provide an additional food or an additional production or something to make using them more beneficial than just farming the tile.

( Which is something I might try to add in with a Mod if no one beats me to it first. )

[SheckyS]

It seems like this is a bug or at least a pretty big oversight by the developers, doesn't it? Bonus resources that you are better off NOT getting? That just can't be right.

[Saurus the Second]

Sheep/Cattle/etc/etc used to give a health bonus, but health is out now. Are they purely a food-only bonus now? Surely there must be some other application they're used for, something where having one-of-each and resource trading is a benefit?

It would be logical to think so. But I still have found no use for some of theese bonus resources

And the manual actually says that improving them gives... nothing.

Then again, the manual also says "status of liberty" instead of "statue of liberty" ...

[GrimDanfango]

It seems like this is a bug or at least a pretty big oversight by the developers, doesn't it? Bonus resources that you are better off NOT getting? That just can't be right.

Oversight is the word. I have to admit, I'm starting to see some fairly glaring holes in the game mechanics... did anyone actually playtest this game? Bugs may be hard to spot and slip out into release, but oversights in game logic? Surely these should have been ironed out at the design stage?

[Mythdracon]

I hate to say this, but I can't believe it took Firaxis several years to make Civ V. They removed more mechanics than they improved, and this tile improvement thing is just one glaring example (others: diplomacy, city management, info like city state quests etc being tracked)

[Waterhouse]

This is the same issue as posted at http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88492
I was already dissappointed when I saw that Sheep, Cattle, Deer and Wheat are identical except for their locations, but what you are discussing here simply seems too ridiculous to be true. As opposed to 95% of the other complaints out there, this actually concerns a mistake, a bug, and isn't just a matter of opinion. Howcome no one has made more noise about it?
And most importantly: does anyone know how to fix it (modding, changing the script; I have zero competence in that area myself)?

[Waterhouse]

BUMP!
Anybody...?

[SheckyS]

I tried this out last night with cattle (didn't have any sheep around) and actually, I was not even given the option to build a farm on the tile. I could only build a pasture.

Maybe there was some other reason for it in this case, but... are you not even allowed to build farms on bonus resources?

[Saurus the Second]

BUMP!
Anybody...?

I'm saying no more about this matter until I get the hand on the real game. I only have the demo, so my observation is based on the demo only.

But if it is a bug, then why do even the manual state, that puilding a pasture, is giving you - nothing?

Manual also says that bonus resourses are giving you extra food and gold.
But when you scroll though the minimal list of bonus resources, none of them actually are indicated to give you an increase in gold even when the apropriate improvement is be beeing constructed.

It's like the whole bonus resource feature, somehow never got implemented in the game? (Except for the graphics)

[nuh uh no way]

Resources are just wacky. The bonuses they provide to a tile just aren't very.. good.

[mburlone]

I have an idea that would make bonus resources (wheat, sheep, fish, etc,) worth collecting and bargaining for with other civs: Make each type of bonus resource increase growth rates in your cities by some amount, say, 10%. I'll try to make a mod for this, but I have no experience modding and have no doubt a more experienced modder would do a better job.

[Zulljeen]

I tried this out last night with cattle (didn't have any sheep around) and actually, I was not even given the option to build a farm on the tile. I could only build a pasture.

Same thing with horses…

It is sad but most game concepts (including lands improvement) seems to be veeeery simplified…

[sakusen]

I've seen this on a lot of forums now and this is really a huge oversight from the developers. Like, they give us all these resources to make the game seem diverse ad complex and they give you nothing special. No strategic advantage or as in Civ IV, health. Which played a big role on happiness. I don't think I've seen my people unhappy even once in this game.

[GrimDanfango]

Actually, dunno if anyone noticed - I was playing last night, and realised that where cows for example add +1 food to a tile's base output, building a pasture actually adds +1 production as well, contrary to the manual/civpedia's claim that it adds nothing at all.

So it's not *quiite* as broken and pointless as I thought, but still a bit lame.

[Saurus the Second]

Actually, dunno if anyone noticed - I was playing last night, and realised that where cows for example add +1 food to a tile's base output, building a pasture actually adds +1 production as well, contrary to the manual/civpedia's claim that it adds nothing at all.

So it's not *quiite* as broken and pointless as I thought, but still a bit lame.

That's good. Then the concept might be less broken then what we first believed.
Still there is many issues to solve here (like the sheep in the dessert thing, for instance)

I actually brought up this whole bonus-resource thing in the bug-thread and lprovided a link it to this Thread.

Ok. Now its actually time to play my first game. Just got it. Gonna play prince on a large pangea I think - wish me luck

With the DVD came a wonderful and expandable sheet containing the tech tree, social policy tree, all units & stats, all promotions, terrains, resources, improvements and hotkeys, which will be extreamly handy. This was a treat I did not exepct considering how hard both 2K and steam were trying to get us to buy the game electronically

[wurrble182]

sheep/deer and a pasture/camp provides just as much food as a fully upgraded farm without having to wait for civil service/fertilizer

cows provide 2 hammers instead.

there never even was a problem!