If they did, they might actually learn how to release a half decent game, not a half of a game. GTA IV and Red Dead make this game look like the pits. They're better made, better acted, far better written and give the gamer double the amount of game time. If Rockstar only produce Arcade experiences, then i'd rather waste my money on that, then the ☺☺☺☺ that 2k put out.
Originally Posted by PuepleCity
Everything about both of Rockstars major open world games in the past 3 years are better then Mafia 2. The cities and open worlds are better, the graphical experience is better 'crap AA and screen tearing destroyed what ever hope they could claim on graphics', the weapons are massively better as are the cars. They actually include things like newspapers and the internet 'although for modern games'...
This game was almost destined to fail when melee weapons were not included. I mean ffs, its the bloody mafia.
Last edited by marchi; 09-28-2010 at 02:25 PM.
Yeah.. mafia 2 is going very well.. It's good for you, for 2k. but do you know WHY most people bought the game?
Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
Because it got the title MAFIA obviously. Truth is that most people are dissapointed about the game but they pre-ordered and bought it because of the name, not because of lousy 2k. so be happy. in my opinion 2k did a great job.. a great job when it comes to ruining a sequel.
Last edited by Cyper; 09-29-2010 at 09:49 PM.
Yeah but not everyone at 2k is responsible for that. Many of the makers didn't have a say in that and your generalizing them all in one lump with that statement. Mafia 2 itself is quite good, but the cuts are what made created this sh*tstorm.
LOL, they removed my coments...
They love me...
Oh, I love you too, 2k!
Don't talk about moderation on the forums - if you have a question, ask me.
Originally Posted by ftnmaster
No posts are ever removed for any reason other than flagrant disregard for forum rules. As you know, I completely advocate feedback of all kinds - but disrespect and inappropriate behavior isn't welcome here.
EDIT: I also do not see any of your posts removed.
i asked you many questions about who was charlie lopez, about monique, about jolanda to fill my mosaic about mafia 2 original story but u didnt answer me like u answer all the time to everyone with a retarded comment:"this is full game guys":
Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
I was ironicly thinking about this if 2k hadn't cut half of the game it would of been great I know sometimes like how they cut the three possible storylines to make because only one of them was golden but If they had of kept that for example It would of been a better game
We will talk about your moderation because it's terrible. My post in DLC section was deleted too just because it was full of disrespect to Mafia 2 final product! It wasn't contain any impolite language or something like that. Be sure you are very well famous throught www becuase of your "moderation of forums", you even got to gaming magazines known as a "Great example of relationship between 2K support and the gamers".
Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
First Mafia was sold more than 2 milion copies because people they love'em.
Myself I bought 3 orginal copies of this game.
U know why mafia 2 fail?
Because D.VAVRA left. HE should to be the main director ( to perform the main role of M2 - like in the first mafia ) Thats the big reason.
And another one:
They copy a lot of things from gta, like: police; get a car; hud, but they forgot a big one: side missions. Part two lost the orginal M1 style.
Why ? Who have responibility for that? Dont' know but lost Vavra = lost everything.
I would rather say it has sold not many copies, hence it was created in a bad way.
Last edited by metallicapurify; 10-13-2010 at 08:55 AM.
I don't think we'll honestly ever know what was cut from the final version of the game or ever get the CANDID feelings of everyone involved with it.
All I know is that it is a game that had a LOT of potential and that potential was sorely UNDER utilized. Hence, the mediocre reviews and mediocre sales. It speaks for itself.
It's imperative that 2K understands the feelings of its customers and really takes it seriously.
For a game that relies so heavily on the story, it was very UNWISE to release it in the state it was. It's a no-brainer that you have to put the story on a pedestal and exceed expectations when you consider....
1) There is no multi-player.
2) You've included no side missions.
3) It's a linear game.
4) The replay value comes from replaying the game (the same linear storyline).
5) There is no free-roam (free-ride/free-ride extreme)
5) You're asking $60 or more for this game.
(Personally, I didn't care about multi-player and side missions. Plus, I also love it's linearity. But, that naturally raises expectations for the story.)
So when you do this and release a short/chopped/unfulfilling storyline, THEN go on to ask for more money for DLCs, DLCs that are being released very promptly after the release of the main title, people WILL have some animosity and have obvious questions regarding 2K's intentions/motives. AGAIN, this is NO-BRAINER. It's NOT shocking and it shouldn't be to anyone.
Can we cut out the "putting on a happy face" routine? It only serves to antagonize those who bought it and have legitimate questions/concerns.
What has already been done hasn't gone unnoticed and neither will 2K's response.
Last edited by MafiaFan; 10-13-2010 at 10:00 AM.
I completely agree with MafiaFan here. I have always said that I am not upset about the cut content per say, what I am upset about is how 2K choose to inform their customers about how the game was changing radically. How did they let us know you aks? They released the game and let us pay $60 for it.
Originally Posted by MafiaFan
But if I have to raise some criticism towards the game itself then I think it has strayed too far away from the original and can almost be viewed as a standalone game in my eyes, not a sequel to a cult game like MAFIA.
Maybe we will get the more serious opinions when they start promoting Mafia III, if that ever happens.
@2K Elizabeth Why 2K Games wouldn't show Mafia 2 sales data? Please be more transparent to us. Thanks.
2K Games and our parent company Take Two have a specific way of sharing data like this - it's been that way for many years. We do talk about sales and shipped quantities, but according to a schedule. Since we're a publicly traded company, our quarterly updates might also be of interest to some of you if you do want to learn more about all things 2K.
Originally Posted by Everly
mafia 2 has such a short and very linear storyline (i just wish 2k would release the cut content as a free download).
Last edited by hugh750; 10-13-2010 at 01:00 PM.
answer is no. they like to release joes or jimmys missions instead because we should not notice that something was cut from the main game.
Originally Posted by hugh750
Last edited by 2K Elizabeth; 10-14-2010 at 11:50 AM.
Reason: making the font not huge!
Agreed. She closes threads as quickly as she got our money. Always ends with "there is already a thread about this, post in there!"
Originally Posted by Tommy_CZ
Where the hell is the link? Half the threads she closes there isn't another thread, that one was already closed as well
I will have to say that this forum has got to be difficult to mod, but the sheer number of closed threads is unprecedented in my experience. It is poor etiquette to over moderate.
The point about links has already been addressed and hopefully all closed threads (because of dupe topics) now have links in them - if not, shoot me or 2K David a message so we can fix that up. Mods are also volunteer fans, so give them a bit of slack - they're just like you guys and trying to make this place awesome, but we've changed around some rules based on feedback.
Originally Posted by chalkman
Again - keep this thread about copies sold - or, as it's breaking the aforementioned rules, it's going to close.
Anyway if anyone is still interested acording to VGChartz Mafia 2 is now with more then 1 million copies sold in all platforms.
Which is pretty bad. Mafia 2 has been out for nearly 3 months. To only be hitting the million mark NOW is not a good sign.
Originally Posted by pedroribeiro124
if you read that article a while ago posting how much trouble Mafia II went through you will realize that it seemed a lot of the trouble and time wasted was getting a graphics engine to stick with as they had a graphics engine from i believe it was 2004 that they where trying to lease but then the next gen consoles came along and that deal fell through so they started making one from scratch etc which burned alot of time and i am sure money etc.
Originally Posted by kvic
but basically the game we got sounds like it was pretty much in Development since roughly 2008 (don't quote me as i would have to re-read article but it was either 2007 or 2008 i believe)... so the game was not really in development for as long as it looks like in a way.
but what i think they should do is... basically use pretty much same graphics engine with maybe a few tweaks to it and make a Mafia III this way time can be spent on polishing the story/game and other areas more than building a graphics engine from ground up.
but to get more on topic... copies sold seems to be floating a little over 1 million now according to vgchartz.com (1.04million) ... the PC seems to be under 74,000 copies sold (but i guess it's not to much of a surprise since people typically play games on consoles in general)
Last edited by ThaCrip; 10-16-2010 at 02:39 PM.
I think you need to do the maths again on that one, M2 was released less than 2 months ago.
Originally Posted by Lee James
EDIT: For those of you who think that Mafia 2 sales are bad, have a read of this report...
Last edited by Jonny tight lips; 10-16-2010 at 03:42 PM.
It is not a surprise to see that only 4% of the games make a profit.
We all as consumers in the beggining of the year make our selection of games to buy for that year.
For this year i have selected like 6-8 games to buy however iam sure that during the whole year will come out a few hundreds of games.
back again from another 3 week ban by elizabeth if 2gay put haft the effort in mafia 2 that they put into banning ppl and lying about cut content it would be game of the year
Does those figures include sales via STEAM ?
Originally Posted by ThaCrip
I see that some makes comments every now and then that digital distribution is not always included in sales charts, but I do not know if it applies to vgchartz. If it does then it is very low, but at least Mafia II have after all probability secured some more sales of Mafia I as it is on Steam as well now.
Well Mafia 2 gets already sold for €33 (X360) on some wbesites. That;s a price RDR even has never reached yet. And also GTA4 took 2 years to get below €40..
Why is everyone hating on 2k? I mean seriously.. This is a game that took alot of time and money to make. As a programmer myself I don't believe you guys know what type of work and testing it takes to make a game like this. To develop the engine from scratch, to make the tool applications to make the models, the maps, the music.. To make the voice acting, to make the story line..
You then have to put this all together, you have to play test, you have to squash out the bugs.
This is tedious work, which requires patience and extreme intelligence. I personally enjoyed the game and it's not fair to compare it to Mafia I which was made years before. These developers are dealing with alot more in terms of the engine then the previous game so comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges.
DLCs are a good idea because it keeps the game going. You didn't have that option with Mafia I, so you got what they gave you at the time of development. You now have the option of playing more of a great game. 2k is not trying to 'steal' from you, the DLCs were not released into the game due to a number of issues, one which was apparently time constraints.
Just because they didn't have the time to finish the project the way you wanted it, doesn't mean it is a failure. What is a failure is your reaction to all of this and how it is scaring potential people away from the game. This just happened to APB and the community was responsible for it's downfall. Instead of helping the game grow, all they did was complain. Motor City Online had the same outcome.
Do you want this to happen to Mafia? It's upto you, however I would much rather see the game grow into even something more spectatular.
I totally agree with you...
Originally Posted by Silveron
Great thought, though...
That's why mafia 3 needs a financially stronger backing, big player like capcom, rockstar can make the developer dream come true rather than shrink and cut here and there due to limitation it had in making mafia 2. just look at how those big player deal with their multiplatform titles, they made them near identical and basically works well on all platforms too. I been to capcom support forum, they definitely does offer better after sale supports too and listen better.
What people dont realise is that 2K actually rescued the Mafia franchise, but the original Mafia game fanboys would rather bite the hand that feeds.Yes their is room for improvement in Mafia 2 maybe the DLC will do that.
Originally Posted by Silveron
Ehm.. what you people don't realise is that certain people might not be OK with paying an additional $10 for something that should have been included on the retail disc in the first place, which is what 2K was telling us.
Originally Posted by Jonny tight lips
People need to look up why people are upset in the first place. It is Not because 2K is 2K or that they are Not Illusion Softworks. It all has its roots in that they went out in interviews and developer diaries claiming they had all sorts of features, missions, cars, weapons and all that going on for about 3 years (since august 2007 when the game was announced). And quite right, we saw alot of that in gameplay videos that were released in 2009. But when the retail version finally is released a little more than a year later, most of the stuff (meaning over 50%) is, for some unknown and unclear reason, missing. Why? Let me spell it out for you: D-L-C.
Developers have stated on these forums that at some point during development they decided to start polishing the features that were already done and just drop the rest which weren't quite completed yet. However all of these cuts became so obvious (even to some just casual gamers, who felt stuff was missing) that die hard fans could hardly play through half the game before they knew that this was not the game they had been waited for over 8 years. Which leads me perfectly onto my final point: They had EIGHT YEARS to work on this game. So the question remains how did they not have time to work on it and finish it completely? Well most of the stuff they claimed they had stopped working on was infact sold as the Jimmy DLC's instead (those were the sidemissions, if you noticed in the Map legend there are icons called "Jobs", "Derek's Office" and "Bruski" which serve no real purpose) but there are other reasons:: The inquiring of Illusion Softworks by Take-Two raised some leadership problems (not just of the Mafia II project, but the entire company itself) that and the release of the Next-Gen consoles (360, PS3) which required them to basically start from scratch.
This game was in development for too long and should have been released in 2004/05 for PC and possibly for PS2/Xbox. Let's be clear on that Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven fans are PC players, not console players, as the PS2 and Xbox ports of the original were not anywhere near as good as the PC version.
Last edited by Gamba; 10-25-2010 at 06:04 AM.
Originally Posted by Silveron
I agree with you, but this also is a two way street. If this game is to survive we are going to need more than patches that kill save games, and level 14 fixes. How about listening to some very valid complaints and responding? Or even better - doing something positive about it. Say example wheel support. How much time would it take to have a programmer add that? People would even be willing to pay for it perhaps as an addon to DLC, say a racing pack. But almost every suggestion i've made or others, and what i have seen, has fallen on deaf ears. I think it is a game worth saving, (check the wheel support thread) but I (and others) can't be the only ones trying to improve the things users want in this game. We need to not only be heard, but we need to see some action.
Last edited by chalkman; 10-25-2010 at 07:34 AM.
and who is "we're all"? The investors? The 2K employees? the End Users?
Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
show proof - remember?
Wow Elizabeth - you really stepped in that one, didn't you?
I knew if I just sat back and watched you, you would hang yourself with a comment like that. Enjoy basking in the truth of it all... It might give you a well deserved tan.
Last edited by Giddeup; 10-25-2010 at 10:14 AM.
Originally Posted by Bastidge Child
Why on earth was that thread closed? I do not know of any similar thread talking about it in such a detail, its hard to know which thread Liz is refering to when there is no link in her post.
They didn't have 8 years to make the game, first it took time to acquire the rights from Digital Illusions, next they had to create a game engine from scratch which is THEE hardest thing to do in the gaming industry. That in itself probably took a good two years to complete and polish. They also had to make the mapping, modeling and sound effect tools. This is a project that hundreds of people worked on.
Yes it's understandable that some might be disappointed when feature 'a,b and c' that were promised but were not put in. However every game gets to a point that either you need to ship or risk putting the project in jeopardy. Alot of money is invested into a project like this and these investors want their ROI. I could never be in this field of game programming because of this. Dealing with this and the demand of expectation on these new games are enough to have a person in this field be torn in half. The stress level must be very high.
That being said, when I create a project for a client I often brainstorm and come across ideas and often think 'Wow, that would be so cool to implement'. When starting on the project I usually find that the base part of the project takes alot longer then expected, between the programming, testing and debugging. There is no way to predict how long a certain part of the project it will take to complete because each situation is different and you can't predict what might go wrong. So in 2k's case they had two options. First to give you what they made and walk away, you get what they give you and hope for the best. Second, take the love they have for the game, finish what they wanted to and push it out for distribution so that you can continue to enjoy the game. Distribution is not cheap, nether is paying a staff of very intelligent, sought after employees.
They are not in this as a 'quick rich' scheme. This is the main reasons why I am starting to dispise the technology industry that I am in. It's not about what you do right, it's about what went wrong. My clients could be up 364 days, 22 hours a day out of the year. However, those 2 hours they are down, it's what they remember.. It's what i'm called out on, it's my reputation on the line. It's what they tell other potential clients about how awful it was to experience this downtime. It's not about the hard work I put into developing and maintaining the systems.
Imagine working for 3-4 years doing awesome work, during this time you had a small slip-up. Now imagine after all these years you get called out on this mistake and get grilled every day while the whole world is watching.. This is what you guys are doing to 2k. It must be very heart breaking to them, and a good reason why Elizabeth doesn't reply back to your threads because it would just be picked apart and twisted to make the situation even worse.
You guys are hell-bent on making them look bad and it's going to ruin this game, just like MCO and APB.
Personally I love the game, it's a stress relief playing it. I appreciate what they have done because I can understand what it takes to make a game of such magnitude. It makes me wonder and want to live back in those years, where people are more appreciative and enjoy life more. It was simplier back then, and the expectation and 'what can you do for me today' attitude didn't exist like it does today.
Well, this isn't new. People have been complaining about it since the demo and before, while I have defended the game up until the point that freeride was cut. Still a great game in fact your last sentence really describes its greatest qualities.
Originally Posted by Silveron
Your insights seem well founded, and I love the game I have close to 90 hours into it, but the thing that i'd argue is that other gaming companies are getting it right, why in this particular case are we left with a game that can't honestly stand up even to its predecessors shadow?
The probable 5 or so years of real dev time was well spent, in fact Denby Grace said himself that they had enough content for 2 games. So IMO, it was a mistake to cut the last little bit of pieces out of this title at the very last minute, to meet release. In fact doing so took this game from it's rightful spot as game of the year, to a very short, albeit wonderful, but not a contender it should have been. And fans of Mafia, are really and truly saddened to see this happen. So much potential... But like seemingly everything else these days, rushed to completion before the project could reach it's full potential.
The DLC can resurrect this title, but only after disappointing your average gamer who may not be as willing as I am to let their dollars go to more on this game.
Well I don't agree with you on this for one simple reason. While I also find it reasonable (understandable) that some people are upset about missing content, you have to stop for a moment and think about why it is being called Missing content! Later in your post you took an example of personal experience where you brainstormed, that is of course fine. And if they never finish all the stuff they wanted that is fine aswell. You have to release the game at some point, right?
Originally Posted by Silveron
Here is the funny thing, I am one of the people who are upset about 2K and Mafia II. I waited 8 years and during those years we saw trailers, gameplay videos and developer diaries and we read interviews, previews and finally reviews. 2K were really good with keeping their fans up to speed on what was going on with Mafia II. So why am I upset now that the game has been released? Because it was all way too misleading! Must of the stuff they talked about 1-2 years ago did not make it into the final version of the game. This of course also fine, but what is not is that they did not inform the fans of the changes. Instead they began to feed us Less New information and less details concerning cars, weapons, characters and missions. Why? Because if they would have talked in too much detail then fans would have noticed the changes before release and hence: They would not have bought it.
Just take a look at the back cover of the game. If you look at the screenshot under the text to the left, you will see Vito punching a security guard. This is a screenshot from GDS 2009 (Game Developers Session in Czech Republic) where they showed roughly 20-30 minutes of gameplay from this mission. The only way Mafia II players will recognize this scene now is if they imagine Vito's head being replaced with a bald guy with shades and if they suddenly caught a strange case of amnesia and would call Vito "Jimmy", but of course you have to pay the extra $10 before you even begin to think about possibly consider doing it.
This is what ruined the game in the end and it is not 2K or cut content per say, it is: T-N-T!!
uhm.. I meant D-L... aw ☺☺☺☺ it!
Last edited by Gamba; 10-25-2010 at 10:54 PM.