Are you kidding me? Changing hardware uses up an activation?

[drtechno]

I just stumbled upon this gem, should have seen it earlier on their FAQ

"The only data collected is the serial being used for activation, the IP address used for activation, an identifier for the software being activated, and the hash of the machine ID...

You won't have to reactivate unless you change several pieces of hardware and this will count as one of your 5 allowed computers, if reactivation is required."

Are you kidding me ? So it actually isnt only installations, but changes in hardware that affect your total activations ?

This just gets worse and worse. So do I have to uninstall the game prior to upgrading my sound card or video card? How about my CPU ? How about if I add memory??

Where does this ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ end?

[Maniac]

It did say several pieces of hardware.

There are certain components that if you change your computer is essentially a different pc, the motherboard being the big kicker.

I know this because I had a fried processor back in May and ended up having to build a whole new gaming pc. I had to replace every single component in my system. 600 dollars later, I built a top of the line gaming system which ran the bioshock demo flawlessly.

[drtechno]

Thanks for the info.

So is some gem from 2k going to come forward now and tell us exactly what we can and cannot install on our system to not trigger an activation?

Wow, and to think that I actually thought 5 by 5 was more reasonable.. until this came about. Hardware changes plus system corruptions will EASILY exceed 5 activations in a year or less.

[teh_shocker]

It did say several pieces of hardware.

There are certain components that if you change your computer is essentially a different pc, the motherboard being the big kicker.

I know this because I had a fried processor back in May and ended up having to build a whole new gaming pc. I had to replace every single component in my system. 600 dollars later, I built a top of the line gaming system which ran the bioshock demo flawlessly.

600 dollars later and you had a top of the line pc?

[Undying Zombie]

600 dollars later and you had a top of the line pc?

lol.. that would not get you jack really.. he must have had other high end hardware.. otherwise that 600 would not have gotten him/her much.

[dllfile]

Where does this ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ end?

It ends when you use up your 5 activations (unless you go buy it again and restart the whole process.)

[dallows]

Where does this ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ end?

The ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ ends when you stfu and stop ☺☺☺☺☺ing. I do not post in response to you people ☺☺☺☺☺ing but there are a few out there that I can't resist.

You should be grateful. Grateful that in this world of continually degrading game quality these guys come along and make something absolutely awesome and you can't stfu because of some activation ☺☺☺☺. Yes hardware fails... awesome. But if you somehow use up your 5 activations, just call the ☺☺☺☺ing number, say "my machine got fried and I cannot activate my game." and they'll help you out. How many times have you had to call microsoft because you had to reformat and could activate windows xp online?

[drtechno]

It ends when you use up your 5 activations (unless you go buy it again and restart the whole process.)

LOL

Its also unclear to me what happens when you use them all up.. do you then have to go activation by activation or do they (graciously) decide to give you 5 more ?? What happens if they say no?

[drtechno]

The ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ ends when you stfu and stop ☺☺☺☺☺ing. I do not post in response to you people ☺☺☺☺☺ing but there are a few out there that I can't resist.

Boy.. I wish we could all learn to roll over and take it as it comes. Maybe then we would live in a better world.

Until then, stfu and wiggle your invertebrate ass back to enjoying your system being violated.

Point is this: They didnt need to do all this, it doesnt stop or deter piracy, and instead the consumers who decided to pay for this get screwed and have to jump through hoops to use a product they purchased. YES, I have a big problem with that.
That plus invasion of privacy (see hardware fingerprinting), installation of software that cannot be (normally) removed, installation of software that conceals itself from the OS and grants itself admin privelages (hints of a rootkit) etc.

Yes I have problems with those things when games such as Oblivion did just fine without any copy protectionl.

[drtechno]

The ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ ends when you stfu and stop ☺☺☺☺☺ing. I do not post in response to you people ☺☺☺☺☺ing but there are a few out there that I can't resist.

Sorry.. final question, since I kind of forgot it.

You don't think that its excessive to have to call 2k every time you change your hardware after you use up your activations? Thats okay with you?
So when other companies do this too, you have time to sit on the phone all day calling every company with installed software on your computer every time you upgrade? Or did you not think of the big picture?

[Undying Zombie]

Boy.. I wish we could all learn to roll over and take it as it comes. Maybe then we would live in a better world.

That kind of mentality kills civilizations. Read your history and you will know what I mean.

[dallows]

Boy.. I wish we could all learn to roll over and take it as it comes. Maybe then we would live in a better world.

Yeah, maybe if you did understand that you can't control everything and you can't always have your way, that the world isn't always fair and you have to take things as they come, yeah, you might be better off.

Until then, stfu and wiggle your invertebrate ass back to enjoying your system being violated.

How is my system violated again?

[/QUOTE]Point is this: They didnt need to do all this, it doesnt stop or deter piracy, and instead the consumers who decided to pay for this get screwed and have to jump through hoops to use a product they purchased. YES, I have a big problem with that.
That plus invasion of privacy (see hardware fingerprinting), installation of software that cannot be (normally) removed, installation of software that conceals itself from the OS and grants itself admin privelages (hints of a rootkit) etc.[/QUOTE]

Listen I'm not going to go ahead and say I read the EULA or any of the posts talking about it in detail, because I just don't care enough. But the basic understanding of that agreement - between the software and you, is that you are allowing it to install on your computer. If securom is part of that software, tough ☺☺☺☺.

Yes I have problems with those things when games such as Oblivion did just fine without any copy protectionl.

No one cares about oblivion or how much it sold, stop trying to use that as an example.

Sorry.. final question, since I kind of forgot it.

You don't think that its excessive to have to call 2k every time you change your hardware after you use up your activations? Thats okay with you?
So when other companies do this too, you have time to sit on the phone all day calling every company with installed software on your computer every time you upgrade? Or did you not think of the big picture?

I have so far upgraded my pc maybe 3-4 times total and called Microsoft for activation maybe 5 times between a few different systems at my home. Do I think it's excessive? No. Do I care to spend 10 minutes on the phone? No. Would it bother me to call 2K to activate my game 2 years down the line when I actually use up 5 activations? Not at all.

It doesn't bother me at all this securom issue. It's really nothing at all, but you people are making it out to be this big thing. The developer of whatever software has it in their right to do whatever they want with and to that software, it's theirs, they own it. No one is forcing you to buy the amazing product because of a simple issue overblown by morons.

Now what I do I think is excessive? The fact that people like you constantly thing they are entitled to things that they simply are not, and refuse to comphrend that on any level. Please turn off your computer, disconnect it and bring it to your local charity because you simple do not deserve it.

[drtechno]

Sigh.. I guess with people like you, we all would be subject to Sony Music's DRM scheme right now, because it is no different. (except that I can listen to the music an unlimited number of times whereas I have to reactivate the game) I just love how you think securerom's implementation, while no different than the multimillion lawsuit sony lost, is nothing.

If you only upgrade your PC 3-4 times, then you obviously aren't affect by this and therefore shouldn't be telling the rest of us that nothing is wrong.

And yes it is excessive if I have to reactivate every piece of software on my home PC by phone.

How does it violate your system? Just go back to your Xbox... sigh..

"SecuROM installs a hidden driver at the lowest possible level. This means that it has full access to everything on your system.

It hides itself to avoid detection, and protects the parts of it that are visible (files and registry entries) from deletion.

In other words: It takes complete control of your PC, it hides itself, and it can access anything it wants no matter what you do.

That is the very definition of a rootkit."

Maybe not a malicious one, but neither was the Sony Music DRM rootkit.

[Maniac]

85 dollars for an nvidia nforce 4 ultra am2 mobo
60 dollars for a stick of 1gb ddr2 667 ram
35 dollars for the other stick later on
135 for an amd athlon 64 x2
35 dollars for a 550 w 24 pin power supply
220 for an nvidia geforce 8600gts 256mb pci 16x
80 dollars for a 320gb seagate sata 3.0gb/s drive

I don't think I forgot anything. Do the math out.

Gotta love newegg.com!

Obviously OS carried over. And perphials as well. Those not included in price.

Case was the only thing I could keep, and I saved the 16x dvd-rom. Everything else in the system had to be replaced.

[scarcus]

I just stumbled upon this gem, should have seen it earlier on their FAQ

"The only data collected is the serial being used for activation, the IP address used for activation, an identifier for the software being activated, and the hash of the machine ID...

You won't have to reactivate unless you change several pieces of hardware and this will count as one of your 5 allowed computers, if reactivation is required."

Are you kidding me ? So it actually isnt only installations, but changes in hardware that affect your total activations ?

This just gets worse and worse. So do I have to uninstall the game prior to upgrading my sound card or video card? How about my CPU ? How about if I add memory??

Where does this ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ end?

Uhh, yeah. Surely someone testing the limits of the activation thing would have told you this earlier. You don't own it so just deal with the limitations. I gather you won't be changing you hardware all the time, eh?

[drtechno]

No I just wont be purchasing the product. Not the end of the world, somehow I will live.

My problem is that this is a securerom issue, and may get into other games.

[drtechno]

No I just wont be purchasing the product. Not the end of the world, somehow I will live.

My problem is that this is a securerom issue, and may get into other games.

Sorry about that.. stupid lack of an edit feature.. hehe..
We are talking about activation.

Yea I guess I will have to ask 2k permission to change my hardware.. hope I get it *crossing fingers* !

[dallows]

If you only upgrade your PC 3-4 times, then you obviously aren't affect by this and therefore shouldn't be telling the rest of us that nothing is wrong.

So what's your upgrade scheme? Lay it on me. I upgrade when necessary to what I need to do, which is mostly gaming.

And yes it is excessive if I have to reactivate every piece of software on my home PC by phone.

What circumstance would cause this to happen?

How does it violate your system? Just go back to your Xbox... sigh..

Xbox sucks.

"SecuROM installs a hidden driver at the lowest possible level. This means that it has full access to everything on your system.

It hides itself to avoid detection, and protects the parts of it that are visible (files and registry entries) from deletion.

In other words: It takes complete control of your PC, it hides itself, and it can access anything it wants no matter what you do.

That is the very definition of a rootkit."

I'm going to have to request citation on such a quote. While certain parts may be correct, it certainly does not take control of your system. As mine is fully functional and has not been compromised in any way.

I was looking for the thread/post where the guy disected the whole securom thing. From his findings it seemed like absolutely nothing at all.

But I'm tired and at work, so whatever dude. Keep thinking you're right.

[Nirkon]

is this jsut an old thread or something? they upped it to 5 installations at once,
and when you uninstall the game you get an installation back, so unless you are planning on installing it on more then 5 different computers at once you shouldn't even care.

[drtechno]

Nope.. It isn't just installations. If you change your hardware configuration, (like install a new component) it will use up an activation.

Dallows, I'm going to stop arguing with you because its pointless on both sides.

I just want to say that it is not the business of a software company (Microsoft included) to determine how often I upgrade my system or penalize me for doing so. If you believe that is okay, that is fine by me. But I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this point.

[dllfile]

If companies are going to start reguating what I can and cannot install on my system, then I will be MORE than happy to let them buy my next PC and they can charge me a license fee to use it and then they can feel free to license software to me that is limited to 2-5 installs.

But If I were to buy a hard copy of a software on CD/DVD or other permanent media, then I will be damned if I will allow them to tell me how to use my PC and the software I purchased with my money I worked for.

I would not expect Nintendo to bust down my door and take my Mario Kart from me claiming I have used it to much. (Mario Kart rocks).

DRM is nothing more than an attempt to milk people of more money, instead of having to push out a new game more often, they can simply limit the installs until eventualy the customer will have to buy the same title again. People think the MP3 deal back with Napster was about losing money, no, it wasn't. They claim it to be, but in reality they saw a good way to make more money. Thus, they beat it down, smashed it to pieces, then revamped it into a money making market. Anytime corporations see something they didn't think of first, all they have are dollar signs lit in their eyes. They cannot handle the thought of not having it.

Just like movie stars, rich, sure, but most have how many houses? And how often are they actually at any of them? It is all about money/power and having the biggest and best of everything. It is greed.

[dllfile]

Regulating* ^^ I am too lame to check for typos. But not as lame as no edit!

[Never]

I currently have over 20 applications installed on this computer, and many more games, if I had to spend even just 10 minutes on the phone for every one of them to have them activated after installing the opperating system it would take over 8 hours and that still wouldn't be everything (imaging also having to uninstall it all before reinstalling the OS). I would sooner not use any of those applications/games than go through that let alone pay the phonebill for it afterwards.

Some might say, but you'll only have to do it for XP (maybe, depending on the version) and Bioshock, but there are other games that require it and many applications, I will no longer purchse any that require it. Count all the applications and games on your system and imagine each one treated you like Bioshock does.

drtechno:...it is excessive if I have to reactivate every piece of software...by phone.
dallows:What circumstance would cause this to happen?

There are many reasons you might have to reinstall the OS, which obviously (at least some would think it's obvious) means you would have to reinstall all the sofware, if you don't know any reasons for this to happen and have to ask, then you clearly aren't in a position to make snide remarks about it, a bad firmware update can bugger something up requiring it to be replaced , faulty harware, user error, power surge, the list just doesn't stop. The fact that there's a market for repairing PC's (Tech support and so on) show that these things happen every day everywhere. The fact that Microsoft released a tool to help unattended installation of Windows XP further hammers this home. If you work as a PC technician even in a relatively small town you will be doing numerous windows installations on a daily basis for whatever reason, and each will require reinstalling all the sofware wanted (but that's obvious even to people with only a modicum of computer aptitude).

[Artmic]

They should keep the protection in place, and make sure legit users get to install it 20 times even on the same PC. Also, after 12-18 months they should remove this protection from the game, as probably 90 percent of the sales will come in that time period anyway.

[Obturator]

There are those of us who wont buy another game from them ever until they remove this junk. What gives 2K the right to tell me what applications I can run on my PC if I want to run their game?

[dllfile]

I currently have over 20 applications installed on this computer, and many more games, if I had to spend even just 10 minutes on the phone for every one of them to have them activated after installing the opperating system

Very good point. And sadly, a lot of software is heading that direction. I could not imagine having to sit there activating each and every piece of software I own. XP and Vista already have me annoyed, but they are not "as bad" as it seems. Still yet, eventually, we could be sitting here for many hours to do a simple reinstall of our OS just for the sheer fact that each software we would install would have to be activated.

I develop small applications and develop many different web applications in PHP/ASP/Java, but nothing compared to a large scale game. I can understand not wanting your hard work pirated but at the same time I also understand what is best from a customers perspective. Making things harder on a customer to attempt protection of your software does not make anything better nor is it going to stop piracy. Piracy happens not just on a PC, Black Market goods as we speak are being smuggled somewhere and even with the risk of death people still do it. Does anyone really honestly think that protection on software is going to do anything but just make it take a little longer? Most goals I know are not to stop piracy, but to make it much more difficult, but when that difficulty makes paying customers have to jump through hoops to get their software working then that presents a serious problem.

Anyone can blame piracy on the way things are, but fact is, many companies have already taken a chance and released a title without any major protection at all and proven that their sales where not hurt by it. Bethesda'-Oblivion and Stardock-Civilizations II (Just to name a couple) There are many others, but the point is made. Stardock of course used a serial to reward customer with content only available to them. Not a bad way to do it and did not cripple their use of the game at all.

I think companies will have to look at what is more important to them in the end, the customer or try to stop piracy. The only one winning here is piracy as once they figure out how to remove/cripple the protection, then there is no longer a problem for them and the customer is still stuck with playing musical chairs.

[dallows]

Yawn...........................

[Calranthe]

*yawns* I don't know many people who install on 5 pc's at a time or can't uninstall properly to get a credit back..

Oh I do, people who start this kind of thread:
THEY are the kind of people who stick a screwdriver into there pc and blow it up <waaaa one credit gone>
THEY are the kind of people who delete the folder of there program files and not uninstall properly <waaa one credit gone>
THEY are the kind of people who install it on a friends pc who is too cheap to buy it <waaaa one credit gone>

These are the kind of people who can't figure out you don't loose the game if you use up 5 installs YOU JUST CONTACT THEM TO HAVE IT RESET but nooo thats not easy enough for our precious little whiners

These are the people who are blinkered to it not being a root kit, these are the kind of people who can do nothing but complain like little girls.

In short these are the kind of people the pc comunity can well do without.

[conantheking]

It ends when you use up your 5 activations (unless you go buy it again and restart the whole process.)

Kinda sucks. With the size of HDDs on PCs these days I dout someone will use that up for a very long time. But when those 5 are up your right to play a game you bought is taken away.

Oh well, look at what piracy has done to PC gaming, it really is dying when companies are taking such risks to try and reduce it.

[dllfile]

It is happening to people who even uninstalled it to attempt a reinstall.

http://www.tomshardware.com/site/fla...m_problem.html

Granted these 2 guys are not very good at their presentation, but they are not paid to lie.

[Obturator]

Kinda sucks. With the size of HDDs on PCs these days I dout someone will use that up for a very long time. But when those 5 are up your right to play a game you bought is taken away.

Oh well, look at what piracy has done to PC gaming, it really is dying when companies are taking such risks to try and reduce it.

Piracy didnt do this to PC gaming. Idiot execs who somehow equate piracy with lost sales are the reason. Lots of games have done great without DRM its just much harder to make your money if you cant double dip your paying customers.

[ZanBizar]

Hmmmm I have a thing called dinamyc IP, how many times can it reset? Because a dynamic IP resets almost everynight.
5 night's no more Bioshock for me then?

[kcohsiob]

*yawns* I don't know many people who install on 5 pc's at a time or can't uninstall properly to get a credit back..

Oh I do, people who start this kind of thread:
THEY are the kind of people who stick a screwdriver into there pc and blow it up <waaaa one credit gone>
THEY are the kind of people who delete the folder of there program files and not uninstall properly <waaa one credit gone>
THEY are the kind of people who install it on a friends pc who is too cheap to buy it <waaaa one credit gone>

These are the kind of people who can't figure out you don't loose the game if you use up 5 installs YOU JUST CONTACT THEM TO HAVE IT RESET but nooo thats not easy enough for our precious little whiners

These are the people who are blinkered to it not being a root kit, these are the kind of people who can do nothing but complain like little girls.

In short these are the kind of people the pc comunity can well do without.

In reply to Calranthe:

I couldn't have said it better. Although I think you meant to say "complain like little kids" not "little girls". Cause I think girls, little or large, rock!

There is no diplomatic solution here.
Clearly this is perceived as something close to the end of privacy, and free behavior. That line of thinking is crazy. Although I do not subscribe to bending over and taking it either.

With all this complaining going on, no one has stated an ACTUAL problem, only a perceived one.

Will I or will I not be able to install and play this game in the future?

I admit I am concerned, but in no way am I angry.
But perhaps a year from now when the activation is likely no longer an issue, I hope we all remember the big stink that was made over nothing, and Bioshock has its place as one of THE coolest games around.

Now go play the ☺☺☺☺ing thing!

[drtechno]

In reply to Calranthe:

With all this complaining going on, no one has stated an ACTUAL problem, only a perceived one.

WRONG. The actual problem is that it wasn't clearly stated on the box or anywhere else that you effectively have limited installations, a massive departure from standard copy protection schemes. They essentially hid the fact until people ran into the problem. And it wasn't even clear until recently that changing hardware uses activations, because they kept lying to their customers insisting there was no hardware fingerprinting when a unique hash of your hardware was taken and sent to them.

And some of the problem IS perceived. If this sets a precedent for copy protection, then once your activation limit hits on ALL your software, you will have to spend all day making phone calls trying to get stuff unlocked EVERY time you reinstall your OS, change hardware, or have your OS become corrupt. Add to that the fact that it won't stop piracy, its an unneeded hassle that only paying customers are subject to. THAT is the problem. And personally, I don't have the time for that garbage.

[Kyorisu]

Hmmmm I have a thing called dinamyc IP, how many times can it reset? Because a dynamic IP resets almost everynight.
5 night's no more Bioshock for me then?

No, just no. Millions of people use dynamic ips and the activation simply does not rely on your IP.

[kcohsiob]

I must admit, I have slowed WAY down on my old upgrade habits.
Were I as I used to be, I may hit that five limit in six months maybe less.
Nowadays, I will never hit that limit.
Perhaps making an image of a new HD with just the OS, and an install of Bioshock could circumvent the limit?
I have had some starforce games on my system, and I certainly have securom games on there now. I notice no problems, though were I as I was, I would be scouring my system for locations, and methods of removal.

Really, I think I am sticking my nose in a discussion I can't be very constructive about, and will likely contradict myself.
I don't like forums much, but I like the game, so I thought i would get involved, but I really think I chose the wrong topic.
My interest in what gets installed on my system has diminished, scary actually, and my attitude here is along those lines. I'am an old ☺☺☺☺er anyway
So we are on different pages.
I hope I didn't aggravate anyone further.
I will stick to topics about game, and gameplay.

peace

[kcohsiob]

Plus I feel like an ASS because I misspelled my username.
Take me seriously now!!!

no edit, rrrr

[dallows]

lol toms hardware.

[marius26]

Having the game locked to hardware ID makes the game OEM version which means that instead the game costing £30 it should cost no more than £10 hell i wouldnt even pay £10 for a 5 installation game.

I have just played the demo, the game is really good i would buy it, but i wont buy it untill they remove that activation from it, to be honest locking the game to a Unique hardware id is a nightmare for legit users, for example myself since i upgrade my hardware every month or so, i would have to reinstall the game, and 5 month used all 5 activations stopping me from playing the game.

Now that is what i call a stupid move by 2K, not even a begginer programmer would make such childish stupid move. No offence meant but from that moe i would assume that the programmer that came up with the idea is a 60 year old person.

[drtechno]

Hell .. They probably think we all just buy a Dell and keep it for 2 years, afraid to break that 'voids warranty' seal to open up the case.