Things that almost work and could be fixed

[xyzzy2]

First of all, I'm coming from the perspective of a PC player. I understand that some of these might work better on the consoles.

There are a number of ways of killing people in this game which just don't work, but perhaps they might if they were improved or tweaked a little. I'll list some of them now.

1. Houdini plasmid as a way of attacking.

Doesn't work worth a damn. Only lasts for 5 seconds (with eve saver), and what with people darting around changing directions all the time, half the time you end up turning visible in front of the enemy, instead of behind him.

It seems to me that if you simply removed the 1 second pause between when you let go of the plasmid button and when you are able to fire, it could suddenly be a decent workable killing technique. That 1 second is really what ruins it, since by the time you are able to fire, you are no longer behind your opponent frequently. I don't think removing the pause would make it overpowered.

2. Aerodash as a way of attacking.

Doesn't work worth a damn, for reasons covered in a recent thread. Basically, you usually miss and don't get the stun, and once you come out of the aerodash you're just as disoriented as your opponent is.

I think you could fix it, just as with houdini, by removing the pause at the end of the aerodash. If you could smoothly dash forward, while still being able to turn properly in the air and instantly attack, it might be decent. Although I'm not sure how the "enemy teleports due to lag at the end of the aerodash" could be fixed, this happens much of the time.

3. Slugger.

Doesn't work worth a damn, because it doesn't work with any plasmids, every plasmid cancels the slugger chargeup.

I'm not sure if this is fixable, because this seems like a situation where slugger either is not workable, or too overpowered. Slugger + houdini could be awesome, or slugger plus aerodash. On the other hand, since aerodash is such a hassle to get to function properly, perhaps slugger plus aerodash, if allowed, might be workable without being overpowered.

The difficulty in all of this is that there are many combos which, depending on minor differences in the way you set them up, either work too well or not at all. It comes down to reliability, as something which works very well half of the time and fails the other half is just useless. You might as well be using telekinesis + shotgun or electrobolt + headshot, which almost always work.

4. Geyser trap as an attack, firing it at the enemy

I don't know if this is fixable. In a map with low ceilings, it does 40 points of damage. You could hit someone with this, and then electrobolt for a kill. The problem is that, due to lag, you see an explosion of water, and then the opponent teleports to some random spot, having already shot you with a grenade or electrobolt or something. At least, that's what happened when I tested it out.

[xyzzy2]

Having tested houdini further, I don't think even removing the 1 second lag would be enough to save it.

An even worse problem is that people can still see when their weapon is pointing at you, so they just fire away at the red marker.

I played a recent match and had players kill me twice who should have had no idea I was there. They didn't see me turn invisible, I had fast feet, and it was on Home for the poor where everything is so noisy that they couldn't have heard me.

They just saw the targetting reticule turn red and fired at me, one got a head shot!, the other blasted me with something else while I was trying to get behind him.

In the attempt to not make houdini overpowered, they made it mostly useless. Would it be overpowered if both the 1 second pause and the targetting reticule turning red were removed?

[AK Downfall]

1. Houdini isnt useless. You have to know how to use it. The question is why are you using it in front of enemies and near them. Its meant for stealth and quick escapes not for offense. Its a support plasmid.

2. The reason why some people keep moving around when you geyser trapped them is because they still have their finger on the anolog stick pointing in a certain direction. As the name states its a trap not an offensive plasmid.

3. Slugger takes some skill to use. I know a player by the name of cloudakinz and he has no trouble for OSK melee.

4. Aero Dash only use for offenice is with the combo of winter blast. Aero dash basically used for easier captures for the little sister and quick escapes. I dont think DE has ever stated it was going to be an offensive plasmid.

[xyzzy2]

1. Houdini isnt useless. You have to know how to use it. The question is why are you using it in front of enemies and near them. Its meant for stealth and quick escapes not for offense. Its a support plasmid.

2. The reason why some people keep moving around when you geyser trapped them is because they still have their finger on the anolog stick pointing in a certain direction. As the name states its a trap not an offensive plasmid.

3. Slugger takes some skill to use. I know a player by the name of cloudakinz and he has no trouble for OSK melee.

4. Aero Dash only use for offenice is with the combo of winter blast. Aero dash basically used for easier captures for the little sister and quick escapes. I dont think DE has ever stated it was going to be an offensive plasmid.

In other words, you're saying that all of the above are not useful as attacks. That was my point.

Aerodash IS supposed to be used as an offensive plasmid, otherwise it wouldn't stun people and do damage. If geyser trap wasn't meant to be used as an offensive plasmid, why would it be possible to throw it at someone and do 40 point of damage to them? I also find it doubtful that houdini was only meant to be used as an escape, either.

I know that some players do manage to get some amount of kills with slugger, by camping up in the ceiling somewhere and jumping down on people. Not possible on many maps, and you'll spend most of your time waiting around on others. Got a youtube video link of anyone ever doing well with slugger? Not against levels 1-5, either, that hardly counts.

[AK Downfall]

In other words, you're saying that all of the above are not useful as attacks. That was my point.

Aerodash IS supposed to be used as an offensive plasmid, otherwise it wouldn't stun people and do damage. If geyser trap wasn't meant to be used as an offensive plasmid, why would it be possible to throw it at someone and do 40 point of damage to them? I also find it doubtful that houdini was only meant to be used as an escape, either.

I know that some players do manage to get some amount of kills with slugger, by camping up in the ceiling somewhere and jumping down on people. Not possible on many maps, and you'll spend most of your time waiting around on others. Got a youtube video link of anyone ever doing well with slugger? Not against levels 1-5, either, that hardly counts.

Its a simple answers. Varity. In the campain even though Cyclone Trap isnt meant for offence i use it to blast splicer around

[CrackingWize]

First of all, I'm coming from the perspective of a PC player. I understand that some of these might work better on the consoles.

There are a number of ways of killing people in this game which just don't work, but perhaps they might if they were improved or tweaked a little. I'll list some of them now.

1. Houdini plasmid as a way of attacking.

Doesn't work worth a damn. Only lasts for 5 seconds (with eve saver), and what with people darting around changing directions all the time, half the time you end up turning visible in front of the enemy, instead of behind him.

It seems to me that if you simply removed the 1 second pause between when you let go of the plasmid button and when you are able to fire, it could suddenly be a decent workable killing technique. That 1 second is really what ruins it, since by the time you are able to fire, you are no longer behind your opponent frequently. I don't think removing the pause would make it overpowered.

2. Aerodash as a way of attacking.

Doesn't work worth a damn, for reasons covered in a recent thread. Basically, you usually miss and don't get the stun, and once you come out of the aerodash you're just as disoriented as your opponent is.

I think you could fix it, just as with houdini, by removing the pause at the end of the aerodash. If you could smoothly dash forward, while still being able to turn properly in the air and instantly attack, it might be decent. Although I'm not sure how the "enemy teleports due to lag at the end of the aerodash" could be fixed, this happens much of the time.

3. Slugger.

Doesn't work worth a damn, because it doesn't work with any plasmids, every plasmid cancels the slugger chargeup.

I'm not sure if this is fixable, because this seems like a situation where slugger either is not workable, or too overpowered. Slugger + houdini could be awesome, or slugger plus aerodash. On the other hand, since aerodash is such a hassle to get to function properly, perhaps slugger plus aerodash, if allowed, might be workable without being overpowered.

The difficulty in all of this is that there are many combos which, depending on minor differences in the way you set them up, either work too well or not at all. It comes down to reliability, as something which works very well half of the time and fails the other half is just useless. You might as well be using telekinesis + shotgun or electrobolt + headshot, which almost always work.

4. Geyser trap as an attack, firing it at the enemy

I don't know if this is fixable. In a map with low ceilings, it does 40 points of damage. You could hit someone with this, and then electrobolt for a kill. The problem is that, due to lag, you see an explosion of water, and then the opponent teleports to some random spot, having already shot you with a grenade or electrobolt or something. At least, that's what happened when I tested it out.

I used to use Houdini alot and, you are right it does not last long enough, I would use it to escape, especially after resurrecting. If you know a splicer is in a small enclosed area, like the bathrooms in Kashmir, you can use it to sneak in, or if you know where a camper is. With Houdini if someone had hit you with Winterblast, set you on fire or shot you with a crossbow, you can turn invisible but the plasmids or arrows don't turn invisbile. So, they can still shoot at you. The problem with Houdini is there is a feint ringing sound when someone is coming out of it so the splicer can be warned.

Aerodash, as was said, takes practice. It is useful for escaping the effects of other plasmids like Electro bolt for example.

Slugger is great, give it a chance, in meleeing someone it takes 2 instead of three blows to kill someone. And, if you are caught in a scrum like what happens in Medical Pavillion alot start swinging. Also, if you plan on playing any 'Kill 'em Kindly' don't go in without it.

I am using Geyser trap alot nowdays, and it can be frustrating with lag...also I think you PC users get more hackers then us. But, it is fun to kill someone that way or at least put them off their game. Leave some traps around! Use a combo of geyser and electro bolt to send a splicer to limbo for 10 seconds. But, if the same person keeps running into them and they are the host be prepared to find yourself sitting in the lobby.

[AK Downfall]

I used to use Houdini alot and, you are right it does not last long enough, I would use it to escape, especially after resurrecting. If you know a splicer is in a small enclosed area, like the bathrooms in Kashmir, you can use it to sneak in, or if you know where a camper is. With Houdini if someone had hit you with Winterblast, set you on fire or shot you with a crossbow, you can turn invisible but the plasmids or arrows don't turn invisbile. So, they can still shoot at you. The problem with Houdini is there is a feint ringing sound when someone is coming out of it so the splicer can be warned.

Aerodash, as was said, takes practice. It is useful for escaping the effects of other plasmids like Electro bolt for example.

Slugger is great, give it a chance, in meleeing someone it takes 2 instead of three blows to kill someone. And, if you are caught in a scrum like what happens in Medical Pavillion alot start swinging. Also, if you plan on playing any 'Kill 'em Kindly' don't go in without it.

I am using Geyser trap alot nowdays, and it can be frustrating with lag...also I think you PC users get more hackers then us. But, it is fun to kill someone that way or at least put them off their game. Leave some traps around! Use a combo of geyser and electro bolt to send a splicer to limbo for 10 seconds. But, if the same person keeps running into them and they are the host be prepared to find yourself sitting in the lobby.

Haha ibeeboy you should know from a fact that houdini is my specialty.

[CrackingWize]

Haha ibeeboy you should know from a fact that houdini is my specialty.

Yes indeed...Bees, being mine, I hate when I see someone not using Bees correctly. It gives true beekeepers like me a bad name!

[xyzzy2]

I am using Geyser trap alot nowdays, and it can be frustrating with lag...also I think you PC users get more hackers then us. But, it is fun to kill someone that way or at least put them off their game. Leave some traps around! Use a combo of geyser and electro bolt to send a splicer to limbo for 10 seconds. But, if the same person keeps running into them and they are the host be prepared to find yourself sitting in the lobby.

Oh, absolutely, electrified geyser traps can get you multiple kills per match, and they're also useful for serving as a warning system that someone is coming from a certain direction.

In this thread I'm generally thinking of things that can be used as a main method of attack. We have electrobolt + headshots, telekinesis + various weapons, insect swarm (though everyone hates it) plus most any weapon. But it seems that there are a bunch of other combinations which were intended to work, but which basically don't and so go unused.

[AK Downfall]

Yes indeed...Bees, being mine, I hate when I see someone not using Bees correctly. It gives true beekeepers like me a bad name!

that is true. And since you know how i work i can use houdini offensive and stealthful as well. Basically all plasmids you need to master and use correctly to use it for other purposes.

Xxx if you still feel like you are being cheated out of these plasmids then just go spam grenades at the hackers on the PC.

[AK Downfall]

Oh, absolutely, electrified geyser traps can get you multiple kills per match, and they're also useful for serving as a warning system that someone is coming from a certain direction.

In this thread I'm generally thinking of things that can be used as a main method of attack. We have electrobolt + headshots, telekinesis + various weapons, insect swarm (though everyone hates it) plus most any weapon. But it seems that there are a bunch of other combinations which were intended to work, but which basically don't and so go unused.

I started using winterblast with shotgun and pistol. Long range and close range. as well as making it so rez players cant suicide themselves.

[xyzzy2]

that is true. And since you know how i work i can use houdini offensive and stealthful as well. Basically all plasmids you need to master and use correctly to use it for other purposes.

Xxx if you still feel like you are being cheated out of these plasmids then just go spam grenades at the hackers on the PC.

There aren't any hackers on the PC, that I ever see.

If you're the mighty houdini user, then how are you able to make it work? Is it really your main method of attack, using it to get behind people, or is it actually your secondary plasmid that you only use situationally?

What I've heard is that Houdini works a lot better on the consoles, due to the fact that console players can't turn around very quickly, and so don't tend to change directions all that often, while PC players are constantly darting back and forth changing direction all the time, making sneaking up on people much less likely. What I've found is that when I'm behind someone, they'll probably change direction putting me in front of them by the time I'm able to turn visible, and if I'm in front of them and invisible, the good players will actually fire at me.

So, how do you go about making it work?

[AK Downfall]

There aren't any hackers on the PC, that I ever see.

If you're the mighty houdini user, then how are you able to make it work? Is it really your main method of attack, using it to get behind people, or is it actually your secondary plasmid that you only use situationally?

What I've heard is that Houdini works a lot better on the consoles, due to the fact that console players can't turn around very quickly, and so don't tend to change directions all that often, while PC players are constantly darting back and forth changing direction all the time, making sneaking up on people much less likely. What I've found is that when I'm behind someone, they'll probably change direction putting me in front of them by the time I'm able to turn visible, and if I'm in front of them and invisible, the good players will actually fire at me.

So, how do you go about making it work?

thats the thing. I dont use it to get behind people. I use it to get close or far away from them.

When i am trying to get close to someone i try not to go to corners cause thats what most players expect when fighting players who use houdini.. Then when i am close enough i shoot my RoF Crossbow at them and walk away. If they have rez then i simply stay away and just try to shoot my crossbow at him.

When im trying to escape someone if im on a layered map i tend to jump off the ledge to escape cause many players would just shoot on the floor they on on.

[xyzzy2]

thats the thing. I dont use it to get behind people. I use it to get close or far away from them.

When i am trying to get close to someone i try not to go to corners cause thats what most players expect when fighting players who use houdini.. Then when i am close enough i shoot my RoF Crossbow at them and walk away. If they have rez then i simply stay away and just try to shoot my crossbow at him.

When im trying to escape someone if im on a layered map i tend to jump off the ledge to escape cause many players would just shoot on the floor they on on.

With all the eve you're burning using Houdini, do you switch to a secondary plasmid like winterblast or telekinesis and hit them with that before you crossbow them? Or just use the crossbow? I've used the rate of fire crossbow a lot, I know that it's one of the few weapons you can really get kills with without having to hit someone with a plasmid first.

[AK Downfall]

With all the eve you're burning using Houdini, do you switch to a secondary plasmid like winterblast or telekinesis and hit them with that before you crossbow them? Or just use the crossbow? I've used the rate of fire crossbow a lot, I know that it's one of the few weapons you can really get kills with without having to hit someone with a plasmid first.

If i run out of EVE i just plain use my RoF crossbow and if they dont die i would switch to my Rapid Fire MG.

If im not using my houdini i will use TK and then my crossbow.

[sac_boi]

I don't know if any one else has mentioned these problems or even experienced them, but problems I would like to see fixed are:

Spawning with no weapons or spawning with only one weapon.

Spawning with a combination of two loadouts.

Not spawning until several minutes later, or not at all.


These glitches happen to me all the time, and are very irritating.

[AK Downfall]

I don't know if any one else has mentioned these problems or even experienced them, but problems I would like to see fixed are:

Spawning with no weapons or spawning with only one weapon.

Spawning with a combination of two loadouts.

Not spawning until several minutes later, or not at all.


These glitches happen to me all the time, and are very irritating.

i know how you feel. All of those have happen to me before.

[sac_boi]

I just read all of the other posts.
I use both aerodash and houdini. and I like them both.
I like the small lag after using aerodash. that's what keeps it from being as cheap as can be. and the small amount of time Houdini lasts.

Do you use TK?

[AK Downfall]

I just read all of the other posts.
I use both aerodash and houdini. and I like them both.
I like the small lag after using aerodash. that's what keeps it from being as cheap as can be. and the small amount of time Houdini lasts.

Do you use TK?

yeah i use TK why?

[sac_boi]

yeah i use TK why?

I think TK is probably one of the easiest plasmids to adjust to. There's not really much time wasted between throwing an object and getting your weapon out like with aerodash, also you don't have too worry to much about it wasting eve because you can just throw anything that's around you at the time to stun your enemy.

I think that's why you guys have such a problem with the other plasmids: you're not quite as used to the behavior of them as you are with TK.

[AK Downfall]

I think TK is probably one of the easiest plasmids to adjust to. There's not really much time wasted between throwing an object and getting your weapon out like with aerodash, also you don't have too worry to much about it wasting eve because you can just throw anything that's around you at the time to stun your enemy.

I think that's why you guys have such a problem with the other plasmids: you're not quite as used to the behavior of them as you are with TK.

im well rounded betwwen all the plasmid. Its Xx who is complaing.

[sac_boi]

im well rounded betwwen all the plasmid. Its Xx who is complaing.

yes. true.

[AK Downfall]

yes. true.

i maybe a TK user but i can easily switch to the combo of EB/Eg or CB then to the other plasmids.

[Criminal]

The geyser trap ebolt combo works wonders actually. You just gotta camp short rooms.

[ROWAN1551]

I have houdini in EVERY single one of my loadouts. It can be a usefull plasmid, In both Offensive and Defensive ways. It is incredibly usefull for running away when you are caught with very little health, But also is usefull for getting the jump on unsuspecting Victims. IMO You do need Eve Saver (which is in Every one of my loadouts aswell) For it to be REALLY effective. Also Fast Feet and Metabolic Eve are good complimentary Tonics but arent as needed as Eve saver. If your just using Houdini to run away I suggest makeing it your secondary Plasmid as it has no purpose as the primary. But if you are infact useing Houdini as an offensive plasmid you will need to keep practicing the loadouts as It is tricky at first but once your used to Houdini it can really come in handy. For a Houdini + Weapon loadout to be successful you need to be comfortable with the weapon your useing. I'd suggest Shotgun (If you have Sawed-Off and get reasearch its a OSK and is VERY usefull), ROF Crossbow Or Machine Gun (I'm Sure Nessa would recommend this), But most weapons will do the job.

I apoligize for all spelling and gramatical errors, I'm posting from my Ipod Touch and it is just so Tedious to type.

[sac_boi]

I apoligize for all spelling and gramatical errors, I'm posting from my Ipod Touch and it is just so Tedious to type.

You did very well for using a mobile device.

[ROWAN1551]

You did very well for using a mobile device.

Haha, Thank you.

[James4125]

Anybody whos played me recently can tell you I have very little trouble with Using geyser traps as a primary form of attack.
The trick is to throw the trap at an angle then when they move into it switch to EB and aim slightly futher in the direction they were moving.
If you miss the 1st geyser trap then you cant avoid to miss the second because unless your target doesnt notice you put yourself at a huge disadvantage.

[ROWAN1551]

Anybody whos played me recently can tell you I have very little trouble with Using geyser traps as a primary form of attack.
The trick is to throw the trap at an angle then when they move into it switch to EB and aim slightly futher in the direction they were moving.
If you miss the 1st geyser trap then you cant avoid to miss the second because unless your target doesnt notice you put yourself at a huge disadvantage.

Yes, James you are amazing with your geyser traps, And it works so well for you.

[James4125]

Yes, James you are amazing with your geyser traps, And it works so well for you.

Well thanks but I wouldent say I'm amazing I just know which spots have low ceilings and which Corners people run blindly round.

[STOP@RED]

Houdini works extremely well with extremely powerful weapons. For example the Grenade Launcher or Nail Gun burst fire or a shotgun. ALSO you really have to get behind them for it to be effective.

[ROWAN1551]

Houdini works extremely well with extremely powerful weapons. For example the Grenade Launcher or Nail Gun burst fire or a shotgun. ALSO you really have to get behind them for it to be effective.

I Agree that it is most usefull with a powerfull weapon, And Getting behind them is helpfull but not necessary as just popping out infront of them you get the jump on them. Which is really all you need in BS2MP

[xyzzy2]

Houdini plus nailgun is terrible, as not only do you have the 1 second pause it takes you to turn visible and be able to fire, you would then have another 1 second pause for your nailgun to rev up, which would make noise and alert the person to your presence.

Turning visible in front of someone is terrible, because during the 1 second pause as you're turning visible, they are seeing you appear, so you don't have the jump on them at all.

[ROWAN1551]

Houdini plus nailgun is terrible, as not only do you have the 1 second pause it takes you to turn visible and be able to fire, you would then have another 1 second pause for your nailgun to rev up, which would make noise and alert the person to your presence.

Turning visible in front of someone is terrible, because during the 1 second pause as you're turning visible, they are seeing you appear, so you don't have the jump on them at all.

I Agree with your first point as the Rev gives away that your behind them.

But appearing Infront of somebody works. I Appear infront of people all the time with my shotgun Put 1-2 Blasts into them and there dead. It does work...

[AK Downfall]

I Agree with your first point as the Rev gives away that your behind them.

But appearing Infront of somebody works. I Appear infront of people all the time with my shotgun Put 1-2 Blasts into them and there dead. It does work...

that or my lovely crossbow. You know how is feels dont you Rowan

[ROWAN1551]

that or my lovely crossbow. You know how is feels dont you Rowan

Yes AK I know .

The Plus side of Houdini is you can already have your crosshairs on them when you re-appear and if you are behind them or slightly to the side they need to re adjust theres giveing you an advantage.

[AK Downfall]

Yes AK I know .

The Plus side of Houdini is you can already have your crosshairs on them when you re-appear and if you are behind them or slightly to the side they need to re adjust theres giveing you an advantage.

I know. All i do is wait till i got there head then shoot 2 arrows and i walk away.

[STOP@RED]

Houdini plus nailgun is terrible, as not only do you have the 1 second pause it takes you to turn visible and be able to fire, you would then have another 1 second pause for your nailgun to rev up, which would make noise and alert the person to your presence.

Turning visible in front of someone is terrible, because during the 1 second pause as you're turning visible, they are seeing you appear, so you don't have the jump on them at all.

Try Nail Gun Burst Fire and Houdini. Its beast.
If you have decent aim then you should be able to get the 2 hit kill with nail gun burst fire before the opponent can react.

[AK Downfall]

Try Nail Gun Burst Fire and Houdini. Its beast.
If you have decent aim then you should be able to get the 2 hit kill with nail gun burst fire before the opponent can react.

but thats what you use and i find you easy to find. But i cant remember if you use fast feet with it cause i have a good hearing for feet in the game.

[xyzzy2]

Try Nail Gun Burst Fire and Houdini. Its beast.
If you have decent aim then you should be able to get the 2 hit kill with nail gun burst fire before the opponent can react.

Explain how this works.

You turn visible, which takes one second, then you wait another second for the rev up to finish, which is making noise the whole time, and then you finally begin firing. How clueless are your opponents that they aren't noticing any of this?

Well, I can see it working if you really were behind them and they didn't know it, and since I have been sneaking up behind people regularly to kill them with slugger, I guess it could happen. But this only works for me consistently against players that aren't very good.