Civ5 Official Steamworks FAQ

[Shadowdragoon]

Furthermore, on the topic of steam bashing, I think you Anti-Steam players should try it first. To be honest, I think Steam is one of the major elements keeping PC Gaming alive. Sure, you can call it DRM, but if a DRM allows you to install on any computer at any time, without a disc or requiring to input a code every time, I'd say it's pretty reasonable. Plus, what other DRM will allow you to buy quality games for a couple dollars? Seriously, stick around until Christmas, that's Steam's biyearly sale period.

Come on, Saying steam is something that keeps PC-gaming is just complete and utter LUNACY. PC-Gaming would be just as good or better than what it is now if steam did not exist.

Lets see, a NON-steam game that you can install from disc, and not need to have disk in the drive.
Tropico 3 (and expansion), Only needs the code on install and not after install.

Lets say this agin.
Forced steam use = BAD
Optional steam use = GOOD
Let those that want that steam crap buy it at steam.
Let the rest of us get a steam-FREE version.

[Closey]

Here's a Steam related question I haven't seen a clear answer for (there probably is one I've missed somewhere though )

If you buy the boxed copy and register it on Steam, will you then be able to download it from Steam instead of installing it from the disch in the future? I know some games allow this and some don't.

Oh and the manual, is there a printed copy in the boxed version? I sure hope so but I haven't actually seen it mentioned anywhere and on the pictures of the special edition for instance there's just the art book mentioned.

I'm just trying to decide where to buy it. The boxed version is cheaper (strange tbh) than getting it from Steam directly and hopefully has a printed manual instead of a pdf but being able to download it for later installs would be handy.

Basically I want a printed manual but if there isn't one in the boxed version I'll probably get it straight from Steam.

[slowtarget]

If you buy the boxed copy and register it on Steam, will you then be able to download it from Steam instead of installing it from the disch in the future? I know some games allow this and some don't.

I think Greg has already confirmed (and this should really be true with all games installed this way in the last couple years) that once you install the game, it associates with your account and you can then do as many installs as you want just by logging in from another computer (Note: you can only be logged in from one computer at a time), then asking Steam to download and install a copy on the local drive.

So... short story: Yes.

Oh and the manual, is there a printed copy in the boxed version?

I would hope so. That's one of the biggest reasons to get a boxed copy. If they say that it's not going to be there, then you're probably wasting your time and money with the boxed version and should just buy from D2D or Steam.

I'm really assuming its going to be there. Every retailer has their bonus. A paper manual is the best bonus the boxed version has.

[Shadowdragoon]

Here's a Steam related question I haven't seen a clear answer for (there probably is one I've missed somewhere though )

If you buy the boxed copy and register it on Steam, will you then be able to download it from Steam instead of installing it from the disch in the future? I know some games allow this and some don't.

Oh and the manual, is there a printed copy in the boxed version? I sure hope so but I haven't actually seen it mentioned anywhere and on the pictures of the special edition for instance there's just the art book mentioned.

I'm just trying to decide where to buy it. The boxed version is cheaper (strange tbh) than getting it from Steam directly and hopefully has a printed manual instead of a pdf but being able to download it for later installs would be handy.

Basically I want a printed manual but if there isn't one in the boxed version I'll probably get it straight from Steam.

Yes, you will be able do do installs fully of steam without using the DVD.

[slowtarget]

Come on, Saying steam is something that keeps PC-gaming is just complete and utter LUNACY. PC-Gaming would be just as good or better than what it is now if steam did not exist.

The reason people keep saying this is because Steam has supported a huge amount of growth in the indie PC gaming market. While indie games were selling themselves on the internet for years, they weren't nearly as popular as they are now. I remember seeing that Plants vs. Zombies was one of the most popular games on Steam. Games like Darwinia were around for a while, but their sales jumped significantly once they started getting distributed on Steam. They now have the cash to make updated versions and, if I saw correctly, make an XBox version.

This is even more important than it sounds. Indie developers and community contributors are the game designers of tomorrow and bring new methods and ideas to the industry. Encouraging and (more importantly) paying them to do new, interesting things ensures a vibrant future for PC gaming.

[Closey]

I think Greg has already confirmed (and this should really be true with all games installed this way in the last couple years) that once you install the game, it associates with your account and you can then do as many installs as you want just by logging in from another computer (Note: you can only be logged in from one computer at a time), then asking Steam to download and install a copy on the local drive.

So... short story: Yes.



I would hope so. That's one of the biggest reasons to get a boxed copy. If they say that it's not going to be there, then you're probably wasting your time and money with the boxed version and should just buy from D2D or Steam.

I'm really assuming its going to be there. Every retailer has their bonus. A paper manual is the best bonus the boxed version has.

Well since you'll be able to reinstall it from Steam instead of the discs there's really no reason for me to buy it straight from Steam any more. (well unless I want the Babylonians that is) since the boxed copy is about €8 cheaper and might/should contain a printed manual as well. Regular editions of course.

[silverdoe]

Why Steam? I want to show my achievements across the board. 360 u know. How? lol
And why Steam achievements have no pts? So there's no difference between open sth & maybe win a thousand match for example!

[slowtarget]

Well since you'll be able to reinstall it from Steam instead of the discs there's really no reason for me to buy it straight from Steam any more. (well unless I want the Babylonians that is) since the boxed copy is about €8 cheaper and might/should contain a printed manual as well. Regular editions of course.

Indeed. The only advantage that Steam purchases really have (ignoring the Babylonians) is the probable (but uncertain) ability to pre-install the game and be able to play the moment the game is unlocked. If you don't care about that, then Steam really shouldn't be a terribly enticing option. Even then, you can probably pick up your box from the store and get it installed within hours of the unlock time anyway.

The only ways purchasing (Civ5) from Steam becomes advantageous is if you can't get to a decent store, if it costs a lot to ship, or if you live in Australia and can get someone in the States (or Britain?) to gift you a copy.

[JayFirelance]

Lets see, a NON-steam game that you can install from disc, and not need to have disk in the drive.
Tropico 3 (and expansion), Only needs the code on install and not after install.

Lets say this agin.
Forced steam use = BAD
Optional steam use = GOOD
Let those that want that steam crap buy it at steam.
Let the rest of us get a steam-FREE version.

What if you lose the disc? How about the CD Key? What if it came with SecuROM? Steam fixes all of these problems and allow you to multitask in game. I mean, you can browse the internet while you wait for the map to load or for you to spawn. Steam allows people to game as long as they have a reasonable internet connection. Steam will never sell out of games, nor do you have to wait in line to get a game. Steam... just works. It's the future of PC Gaming and you cannot deny it.

[slowtarget]

[Steam is] the future of PC Gaming and you cannot deny it.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Digital Distribution is the future of PC Gaming. This has been getting clearer over the last couple years. DD solves lots of problems and reduces cost while doing it. If you're not convinced, see also: Music sales, DVD rentals. I can imagine a time in the near future when companies start selling set-top boxes with multi-terabyte storage and a Steam-like service selling you movies that you can download to your box.

[JayFirelance]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Digital Distribution is the future of PC Gaming. This has been getting clearer over the last couple years. DD solves lots of problems and reduces cost while doing it. If you're not convinced, see also: Music sales, DVD rentals. I can imagine a time in the near future when companies start selling set-top boxes with multi-terabyte storage and a Steam-like service selling you movies that you can download to your box.

Yes, but as of right now, and probably the last 5 years, Steam has been #1. I think I read somewhere that it held more than 90% of the PC DD market?

[slowtarget]

Yes, but as of right now, and probably the last 5 years, Steam has been #1. I think I read somewhere that it held more than 90% of the PC DD market?

I've seen the stat listed as anywhere between 70% to 90%. I suspect you're right and its closer to the latter. However, the point is that while Steam has a majority of the market, the revolution isn't because of something special that Valve is doing, but because of what digital distribution is doing. If Valve were to disappear tomorrow, digital distribution would still take over PC gaming.

[formmailer]

What if you lose the disc? How about the CD Key? What if it came with SecuROM? Steam fixes all of these problems and allow you to multitask in game.

Since Steam is even "servicing" the CD version with licencing, updates etc., will they also allow me to download the game if my CD is failing?
Or will I have to buy the game from Steam to get this option?


//Jasper

[Shadowdragoon]

Since Steam is even "servicing" the CD version with licencing, updates etc., will they also allow me to download the game if my CD is failing?
Or will I have to buy the game from Steam to get this option?


//Jasper

After registering on steam, your DVD is not needed to install.
Even if you install from the DVD that crap steam still needs to run for you to play your game.

[Shadowdragoon]

What if you lose the disc? How about the CD Key? What if it came with SecuROM? Steam fixes all of these problems and allow you to multitask in game. I mean, you can browse the internet while you wait for the map to load or for you to spawn. Steam allows people to game as long as they have a reasonable internet connection. Steam will never sell out of games, nor do you have to wait in line to get a game. Steam... just works. It's the future of PC Gaming and you cannot deny it.

And how often do you loose a disk? Are people normally that sloppy? I got some shelves where I store my disks, not lost one, Not lost a CD-Key either, as I keep those whit my CD, Just have a tiny semblance of organisation, and you wont loose your disks.
secuROM is depending on options choosen by developer, LESS intusive than steam, ofcourse, I would prefear if they choose the same protection as CIV4..

Hmm, from my experiences, the in-steam browser is really restricted, so no, you cant surf the web, you can surf whatever small parts that browser lets you at. And, do you really need do something all the time, why not use the short loading time to think, as for Civ, think of strategy.

And yes, I will deny that steam is the future of PC gaming, its a bad relic that the faster it dissapears the better, the DD is most likely the future of PC-Gaming. steam IS NOT.

[JayFirelance]

And how often do you loose a disk? Are people normally that sloppy? I got some shelves where I store my disks, not lost one, Not lost a CD-Key either, as I keep those whit my CD, Just have a tiny semblance of organisation, and you wont loose your disks.
secuROM is depending on options choosen by developer, LESS intusive than steam, ofcourse, I would prefear if they choose the same protection as CIV4..

Hmm, from my experiences, the in-steam browser is really restricted, so no, you cant surf the web, you can surf whatever small parts that browser lets you at. And, do you really need do something all the time, why not use the short loading time to think, as for Civ, think of strategy.

Wow, buddy, you really do not like steam. But what if you can't find it? It's better to digitally organize your collection. And saying SecuROM is less intrusive than Steam is a joke, but I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this. The Steam browser is barebone. There are no bookmarks and you can't change the homepage, but you can access most of the web, including flash contents. I'm also using it as an example for games where you have to wait to respawn, not games like Civ where there is barely any load time.

[Shadowdragoon]

Wow, buddy, you really do not like steam. But what if you can't find it? It's better to digitally organize your collection. And saying SecuROM is less intrusive than Steam is a joke, but I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this. The Steam browser is barebone. There are no bookmarks and you can't change the homepage, but you can access most of the web, including flash contents. I'm also using it as an example for games where you have to wait to respawn, not games like Civ where there is barely any load time.

You did note the part depending on developers choices right? that Developers can pick and choose what parts of the securom package they want to use? if they want it can do nothing more than a diskcheck.
OR
If they want, it can phone home, check CD-keys, limited activations, kill your pet, etc
(did you spot the joke in the last one)
steam on the other hand, ALWAYS sends usage information. (what game played, how long you have played it, when you played it). It also whit its subscription crap, give you horrid consumer rights.

[JayFirelance]

You did note the part depending on developers choices right? that Developers can pick and choose what parts of the securom package they want to use? if they want it can do nothing more than a diskcheck.
OR
If they want, it can phone home, check CD-keys, limited activations, kill your pet, etc
(did you spot the joke in the last one)
steam on the other hand, ALWAYS sends usage information. (what game played, how long you have played it, when you played it). It also whit its subscription crap, give you horrid consumer rights.

Most devs using SecuROM does WAY more than a disc check. Now, Steam does send usage information, but it's call stat tracking. Most people consider stat tracking a good thing. And stat tracking does not limit your game in anyway, unlike SecuROM.

What is this "subscription crap" that you speak of? I don't know what you're talking about.

[Andrassy]

What is this "subscription crap" that you speak of? I don't know what you're talking about.

Most of the time, I try really hard to understand some of the "facts" he shares with us. But I truly can't either.

[slowtarget]

Most of the time, I try really hard to understand some of the "facts" he shares with us. But I truly can't either.

He's not overly fond of supplying actual, objective facts, but I do know what he's talking about in this instance.

When you buy a computer, you buy a "good" (and sometimes a service contract). It's given to you and you own it forever. You can sell it or destroy it and no corporate entity can limit what you do with it. When you buy a (retail) computer game, you are buying a license. You own the license as long as you choose, and you can sell it if you want. However, the corporate entity you bought the license from still has some control over how you use it. Copyright restrictions are implicit, but there are extra restrictions, including the prohibition to use it for paid public entertainment and in some cases a prohibition against export for sale.

Steam cannot work with either of these models. In both cases, ownership is provided in perpetuity. Steam cannot guarantee this, not strong enough to protect it from lawsuits. Instead, it sells "subscriptions". You pay money and you get a non-expiring subscription to a game. It acts the same as a license for most purposes, but it gives no guarantee of perpetual access.

Additionally, and not that it is linked to the subscription issue, but Steam also doesn't allow resale of the subscriptions. I'm guessing this is more of a logistical issue. Allowing sales would basically allow people to share subscriptions across multiple people, incurring no cost among themselves but burdening Steam with all of the account maintenance and security checks.

[JayFirelance]

He's not overly fond of supplying actual, objective facts, but I do know what he's talking about in this instance.

When you buy a computer, you buy a "good" (and sometimes a service contract). It's given to you and you own it forever. You can sell it or destroy it and no corporate entity can limit what you do with it. When you buy a (retail) computer game, you are buying a license. You own the license as long as you choose, and you can sell it if you want. However, the corporate entity you bought the license from still has some control over how you use it. Copyright restrictions are implicit, but there are extra restrictions, including the prohibition to use it for paid public entertainment and in some cases a prohibition against export for sale.

Steam cannot work with either of these models. In both cases, ownership is provided in perpetuity. Steam cannot guarantee this, not strong enough to protect it from lawsuits. Instead, it sells "subscriptions". You pay money and you get a non-expiring subscription to a game. It acts the same as a license for most purposes, but it gives no guarantee of perpetual access.

Additionally, and not that it is linked to the subscription issue, but Steam also doesn't allow resale of the subscriptions. I'm guessing this is more of a logistical issue. Allowing sales would basically allow people to share subscriptions across multiple people, incurring no cost among themselves but burdening Steam with all of the account maintenance and security checks.

Ah. That argument: "Steam cannot resell games".
Well then, I just have one thing to say: Any reasonable person will not sell Civilization 5 because it WILL be awesome. Mark my words. IT WILL BE AWESOME. Therefore, you don't have to sell it. If you do, then you are not a true Civilization fan, and you should just be quiet now. On a more serious note, it's only fair. I mean, you can play a game for 600 hours within the first month, then sell it for 75% of the money back. Valve makes nothing out of the resale, but the new owner will still use Valve assets to download and install the game. Valve loses money. Bottom line, you do OWN the game and you're allowed to have infinite copies of it, but only you can use it. You cannot resell it. It's a perfectly fine system.

I still like the non-serious part better. If you resell Civ 5, you are not a loyal Civ fan.

[Ukerric]

I'm guessing this is more of a logistical issue.

It's not a logistical issue. Every single publisher wishes to annihilate (do they have access to Uranium?) the secondary market. For every buyer of a second-hand game (on which the publisher gets zero money) is a potential buyer of an original game (on which the publisher gets money). Each frustrated second-hand buyer who finally becomes a primary buyer is more money for the publisher.

Steam provides publishers with an attractive solution to that "problem". For Steam has two categories of customers: us (the "buyers"), but also the editors - he has to sell them their solution. Some of the features will please both, some of the features will only please one, and it's entirely their decision which to push.

In this particular case, Steam would be a lot less attractive to publishers if he facilitated the transfer of games. Most players don't bother reselling their "used" games. You need to go to a store that resells such, find the original box, negociate credit, and so on. If Steam included a platform for reselling games, the number of resold games would probably be a LOT more than for normal boxed games - and Steam would probably lose a lot of publishers.

[Shadowdragoon]

Ah. That argument: "Steam cannot resell games".
Well then, I just have one thing to say: Any reasonable person will not sell Civilization 5 because it WILL be awesome. Mark my words. IT WILL BE AWESOME. Therefore, you don't have to sell it. If you do, then you are not a true Civilization fan, and you should just be quiet now. On a more serious note, it's only fair. I mean, you can play a game for 600 hours within the first month, then sell it for 75% of the money back. Valve makes nothing out of the resale, but the new owner will still use Valve assets to download and install the game. Valve loses money. Bottom line, you do OWN the game and you're allowed to have infinite copies of it, but only you can use it. You cannot resell it. It's a perfectly fine system.

I still like the non-serious part better. If you resell Civ 5, you are not a loyal Civ fan.

Actually, The resell part is not directly important to me, as I do not sell or trade my old games. I do however at times BUY used games.
But it is still a customer right, and 2K or steam have NO right to take it away from us.
steam also have NO right to get our usage statistics, (playtime, what game played, when played, etc). They are sugar coating this whit fluff features, and stuff that you can get elsewhere (IM client, and VOIP)

[JayFirelance]

Actually, The resell part is not directly important to me, as I do not sell or trade my old games. I do however at times BUY used games.
But it is still a customer right, and 2K or steam have NO right to take it away from us.
steam also have NO right to get our usage statistics, (playtime, what game played, when played, etc). They are sugar coating this whit fluff features, and stuff that you can get elsewhere (IM client, and VOIP)

Steam is more than a content delivery client. It is also a Social Network. I don't know about you, but I'd like to show my friends that I'm playing Garry's Mod right now and I want them to join. By the way, don't start an argument with "rights". If you wanna talk about "rights", google "Japanese Americans 1942". Now, with that aside, you also sign an EULA, which allows Steam to do that. You can get those features else where, but Steam makes it easier for people already using Steam.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. You're the one missing out.

[Andrassy]

If you don't like it, don't buy it. You're the one missing out.

And it all boils down to this. I mean, it's not like there's anything else to discuss. I think all possible questions have already been answered, and the discussion just goes round in circles at this point.

Lots of respect for slowtarget, most resilient poster ever.

[tfordp]

Does the demo also need Steam to work, or can it be played as a 'stand-alone' trial? Does anyone know?

[slowtarget]

Does the demo also need Steam to work, or can it be played as a 'stand-alone' trial? Does anyone know?

I'd say its safe to assume that the demo will be run through Steam. This is one of the parts of Steam that developers like. It makes it easy to put out demos. Steam likes supporting demos because it gets people to install Steam, even if they decide not to buy the game.

So, its not an official answer, but until Greg comes by to say I'm wrong: Yeah, it'll run through Steam.

[tfordp]

I'd say its safe to assume that the demo will be run through Steam. This is one of the parts of Steam that developers like. It makes it easy to put out demos. Steam likes supporting demos because it gets people to install Steam, even if they decide not to buy the game.

So, its not an official answer, but until Greg comes by to say I'm wrong: Yeah, it'll run through Steam.

Thanks for the answer. That would be a bummer to be sure. So if my minimum requirements aren't enough after all, as I find out using the demo, I'm still registered with Steam. No like.

[slowtarget]

Thanks for the answer. That would be a bummer to be sure. So if my minimum requirements aren't enough after all, as I find out using the demo, I'm still registered with Steam. No like.

Is that really a big problem?

See, the great part about demos is that they're free. And one aspect of Steam that makes people not sling flaming bottles of alcohol at Valve's headquarters is the fact that they don't charge for accounts.

Also: It's easy to get new email addresses.

So, here's the solution to your problem: Go to someplace (GMail, Hotmail, your friendly hosting provider, whatever) and create a new email address. You don't even have to like the service. Then, install Steam and ask to set up a new account. Use a username that you don't like. When it asks for a name, give it whatever you want. Lie. It doesn't matter. When it asks for an email address, give it the new email address you signed up for. Then, have it download and install the demo. Demos are free, so Steam isn't going to ask you for your real name or your address or your credit card number.

Play the demo.

If you like it, then sign up for a real Steam account and give it an email address you like (or at least one you know you have for a while and not forget the password to) and pick a username that makes sense to you and so forth.

There's no requirement that you play the demo with the same account you use to play the full game (should you choose to buy it). Make a throwaway account to play the demo if you're unsure about anything.

Forget the other account ever existed.

[tfordp]

Is that really a big problem?

(snip...)

Forget the other account ever existed.

Haha, yeah, it's that easy, I know. It's just I'm of an age where doing something like that might be considered (by myself) unethical. But you're quite right, ethics don't enter into it in this big, bad world. Nuke 'em

[slowtarget]

Haha, yeah, it's that easy, I know. It's just I'm of an age where doing something like that might be considered (by myself) unethical. But you're quite right, ethics don't enter into it in this big, bad world. Nuke 'em

Ethics of creating throwaway accounts?

I can see why you might feel this is dishonest, but... well, even Valve tells people to do this if they want to try out a demo.

[tfordp]

Ethics of creating throwaway accounts?

I can see why you might feel this is dishonest, but... well, even Valve tells people to do this if they want to try out a demo.

I don't think unethical is the same as dishonest, ask any politician If Valve says do it, then do it I shall. Thanks.

[Shadowdragoon]

Ethics of creating throwaway accounts?

I can see why you might feel this is dishonest, but... well, even Valve tells people to do this if they want to try out a demo.

No wonder steam got 26.000.00 accounts. I do wonder how many of those accounts are trowavays, and should not really be counted.

[slowtarget]

No wonder steam got 26.000.00 accounts. I do wonder how many of those accounts are trowavays, and should not really be counted.

Quite a few, to be sure.

That's why the 26 million number is usually only quoted with a wink and a nudge. The more important numbers are the 2.5 million concurrent, active users and the fact that there is around a 1.5 million delta between the highest and lowest usage points. Statisticians have used this to infer that there are easily 5 million users who are actively playing Steam games at least once a week.

So what about the other 20 million? Some are throwaway. Some are customers who left. Some are people who just don't play games anymore. Some are people who just registered because they thought they needed to in order to comment on the Steam forums. Some might be active users who just play so infrequently they are difficult to track in daily usage trends. It doesn't really matter.

The "26 million" is only of interest in that it proves that Steam has a system robust enough that it hasn't been crushed by the weight of its own user authentication system.

[Ukerric]

Statisticians have used this to infer that there are easily 5 million users who are actively playing Steam games at least once a week.

In the world of MMOs, the rule appears to be 5-for-1 in most games. That is, there are 5 subscribers for 1 peak user. It appears to be so common that sites like MMOdata use it to infer player bases for games without a subscription (who often boasts ten million players, but have at most 10k simultaneous connections).

Steam might be different, but I think the number of regular steam players are probably closer to 12 million (2.5 x 5) than 5.

[slowtarget]

In the world of MMOs, the rule appears to be 5-for-1 in most games. That is, there are 5 subscribers for 1 peak user. It appears to be so common that sites like MMOdata use it to infer player bases for games without a subscription (who often boasts ten million players, but have at most 10k simultaneous connections).

Steam might be different, but I think the number of regular steam players are probably closer to 12 million (2.5 x 5) than 5.

The difference is that MMOs count players who are connected to the game world. Steam is counting the number of Steam clients connected. My client has been connected for the last three days, but I haven't used any Steam games at all during that time. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

So, if we say there 2.5 million peak users, but there are 1.5 million constant users, then we see a delta of 1 million users who jump on and off every day. Then, we assume that those users are jumping on and off because they're actually playing games, so 1 becomes our first estimate at "actually active" users. Apply the 5-for-1 rule and get 5 million users. Then realize that your "inactive" users that the 5-for-1 rule attempts to account for, are partially accounted for in the 1.5 million users we ignored earlier. So add them back with the assumption that the overlap is accounted for by those that are actually pretty active and should have been counted in with the 1 million "actually active" users.

Thus, we estimate: 1.5 + (1.0 * 5) = 6.5 million active users. Others still think the user numbers are inflated, so a conservative estimate is "at least 5 million".

[Rebel44]

Quite a few, to be sure.

That's why the 26 million number is usually only quoted with a wink and a nudge. The more important numbers are the 2.5 million concurrent, active users and the fact that there is around a 1.5 million delta between the highest and lowest usage points. Statisticians have used this to infer that there are easily 5 million users who are actively playing Steam games at least once a week.

So what about the other 20 million? Some are throwaway. Some are customers who left. Some are people who just don't play games anymore. Some are people who just registered because they thought they needed to in order to comment on the Steam forums. Some might be active users who just play so infrequently they are difficult to track in daily usage trends. It doesn't really matter.

The "26 million" is only of interest in that it proves that Steam has a system robust enough that it hasn't been crushed by the weight of its own user authentication system.

This info is incorrect - Steam have over 25 million ACTIVE accounts (to be counted as active account it has to be online at least once in last 30 days and have to have at least 1 non-free game).

Total number of accounts was somewhere between 35 and 40 millions last time I checked.

[Disappointed]

Sadly I will be cancelling my Civ5 pre-order after reading this FAQ. I can understand that millions of people use and like Steam. I find Steam annoying and intrusive. I support the concept of DRM but some implementations of it (SecuRom and Steam come to mind) are punitive to the very people buying the software in my opinion. Thank you Firaxis for the wonderful games you have created (and that I have bought) in the past. I wish the good people at Firaxis and 2K success but I will not be buying any software that requires Steam.

[JayFirelance]

Sadly I will be cancelling my Civ5 pre-order after reading this FAQ. I can understand that millions of people use and like Steam. I find Steam annoying and intrusive. I support the concept of DRM but some implementations of it (SecuRom and Steam come to mind) are punitive to the very people buying the software in my opinion. Thank you Firaxis for the wonderful games you have created (and that I have bought) in the past. I wish the good people at Firaxis and 2K success but I will not be buying any software that requires Steam.

Ha. What is a reasonable DRM then? Ubisoft Launcher? FADE?

[Disappointed]

Ha. What is a reasonable DRM then? Ubisoft Launcher? FADE?

Battle.net works quite well. I'm not here to debate or cast aspersions, simply state my position.