I think that Civ V needs to show accurate oil depletion, I think it could open up new opportunities and could prove as an interesting game point.
After your oil reserves run dry one could be forced to import foreign oil, boosting their GDP etc, also after all oil wells run dry, may be construction of oil using units could cease, unless an alternative is found?
What do you think?
Nah, although a "Natural fuels" tech would be cool. Alowing you to build oil based units without oil.
well the problem with depletion in a game like Civ is that the tech tree stops!Originally Posted by jamieperry
So you have a problem cause like in past Civ games it has been all about getting to the industrial era where oil dominates from then on. But the tech stops without a post oil solution.
if this is the case in Civ 5 then NO there should not be depletion. but since they are going into the future a little with Civ 5, maybe?! I still say no just because what is going to replace oil?
you want electric cars? well that electricity comes from somewhere. most of the power plants in the world are powered by coal. which.... causes more pollution than oil. so thats a fine solution replace one pollutant with one thats worse.
ok getting off topic.... just simply put NO!
Well 2k has said that in Civ 5, one resource can only build a few units, so one oil well could only build a certain number of fighters or tanks. But it would be interested if there is not enough oil there could be civil unrest, that would be interesting.
Nuclear Power
Solar Power
Wind Power
Hydro Power
Geothermal Power
All of these (minus the nuclear power) have been shown by a Stanford University study how these four resources could produce all of California's power on a typical July day. The hydroelectric capacity is already in place.
The above is taken (almost literally) from the Scientific American November 2009 issue article "A Path to Sustainable Energy by 2030." Also in this article it explains that if all the possible renewable power in easily accessable locations was used, we would be generating approximately 640 Terawatts of power. The power needed for the world (estimate) in 2020 is just under 17 Terawatts. Environmentally-Friendly power generation is easily possible, but expensive.
Back on the topic, I think the oil depletion idea is good, but make oil avaliable from whales as well (this is what they did before the discovery of oil underground).
Ok well I'm a big fan of nuclear and it is by far the most efficient on that list.
Another thing, those energy sources (besides hydro and nuclear) are, like you said, expensive and inefficient. Coal is cheap it is not going anywhere, cause the 3rd world countries are going to use it.
And oil was first found when it bubbled up to the surface. People thought it used to be a cure all, so they would drink it. Lol awesome.
Thats awsome
"Daddy, daddy! I found a cure for mom's horrible disease! here, drinki this mom!" The next day "Son, your mother is dead"
I'm not too sure that geothermal power could be implemented in Civ. It's not like the civilizations in the desert (Songhai, Arabia) are going to find massive geothermal vents any time soon. Solar power would be cool, although isn't wind power already in Civ? I saw some clips of video in Trailer 2 which had wind turbines in them. I'll edit this later and add the time it's found in the trailer.
Awesome. When we run out of oil from the ground, we hunt whales.Its the perfect solution.
Seriously though, I think it might already be implemented (they talked about the sounds of whales in their fourth podcast I believe). And if there's the sounds of whales then there's whales, right? It's just pure speculation on my part though.
Whales might just be food, rather than fuel
in the industrial era they might along with coal.
Does anybody know if there will be resource depletion? That's one of the things I wanted for the new game. In Civ IV it seamed kind of dumb that I could run my entire 40+ city civ with one oil resource.
These could possibly allow building in desert (solar panels). Definitely a proposition to be considered. Even if oil doesn't deplete, you could get heath points for a city with solar power rather than oil or coal. Others are already there for hydro power on a small scale, and nuclear plants and wind power on hills. They all produce power, maybe enough to 'refuel' units running on accumulators.
Last edited by tfordp; 07-27-2010 at 03:15 AM.
There is resource depletion in civ 5
@challenger81
Could you show us your sources?
I like the idea of solar panels in the desert. Personally I would like to see the option of oil running out in the late game and there possibly being a global war over the last resources. Heck that would eliminate the end of game boredom that everyone hates. Perhaps it could be an option to turn on and off. For example there could be an option that says "would you like in the late game for oil to deplete gradually"
I will be back later with a link... I think I saw it in an interview with the creators.
I think "resource depletion" should be an option.
The Earth is a finite place. The crust is only between three and seven miles thick. Arguably, no resources exist below that depth.
Finite means limited. Eventually, things will deplete.
Either we get better at drilling deeper, or we do without.
One thing that prior posts have not broached: If oil goes away, you lose a lot more than a mere fuel. You also lose the feedstock for just about anything else your civilization makes, including plastics, medicines, refrigerants, and even food production.
I know some of you would not like hyper-realism in this game, but it is a matter that must be discussed. To be realistic, any depletion model would have to include the imposition of population caps. Because without oil, we will simply not be able to feed, medicate, or care for large populations.
We'll also be limited in what other energy sources may be used. Think about it, without oil, we cannot mine for natural gas or Uranium. We cannot build nuclear plants because they require the investment of massive quantities of oil and oil-based products. Plastics manufacture, glass making, and metal working will be a lot more difficult, making wind farms and solar panels a lot more expensive and/or limited.
It's a slippery slope, to be sure. If we're going to have depletion, which I would like to see, then we need to have a balance between realism and a game-playable model.
However, we can use alternative fuels like fuel from sugar cane or corn to replace the oil. And oil is needed to make medicines? That's the only one I didn't know.
Cant find it where I thought I saw it... perhaps I am going crazy---
This is where I saw it, on Arioch IV.'s fantastic page at Well-of-Souls.com:Cant find it where I thought I saw it... perhaps I am going crazy---
General Notes
•It appears that roads are no longer required to connect resources to cities.
•Strategic resources are now finite: units that require them deplete a global pool as they are built.
Where Arioch got the information I don't know.
That's not saying the resources deplete. What it saying is that there is a fixed number of units that there can be off the resources that are available.
So basically 100 iron world wide, and everybody is building swordman, and other iron units, each of these units deplete the 100 resources. But as units die off you can replace it by building new units.
The 100 iron resources never changes, the only thing that does the what is comprised of the resources.
Hope this helped!
I reckon you've got the point. But resources depletion should apply to all naturally depletable resources (iron, bronze, etc.) This point has been raised here already: it is not really realistic to have an empire taking half of a continent and run on one singular mine of iron for ALL its iron needs.
It would be absolutely fantastic if the resources would permit only so many units to be produced. Small mine - several units, pathetic little force; big, industrail hub with lots of mines - an industry centre capable of sustaining a huge army. I thinks that's the way forward!
And, off course, new sources of natural resources should be actively sought (and occasionally found) much like in "Settlers".
Sorry, must have got confused with the bit where it says
I think that's pretty clear.units that require them deplete a global pool as they are built.
Edit: This may be the case after recycling has been discovered, I can't really see any other way to make this happen as you suggest, Mr Badass. What if your Swordsmen are in a boat that gets sunk? If they are destroyed in battle, maybe the enemy (or you, if you win a battle) could collect fallen iron from the battle field, but it's unlikely. And if e.g. oil is used, it's gone. There is no replenishment of oil, and it clearly says strategic resources are finite.
Last edited by tfordp; 07-29-2010 at 11:52 PM.
But this means that if you're peace-loving civ, and have a warmonger somewhere else on the planet, you'll be in danger of being left with no resources (and potentially defensless). In reality some nations have a given resource in aboundance, others have less of it and some have none at all. And those who have it use it up to their own advantage (those resource-less have to trade). If you have loads of iron ore, it's yours to have, so depletion should refer to particular mine individually, and your own usage of it (for units or trade) and not collectively for all. Just a thought...
el_lucasso, welcome to the real world.
oh i was just explaining how it will be in Civ V. i would like to see a more complex system of resource management, i have hit this topic so many times in other threads. in length and detail.
i am also all for the depletion of resources but it isnt in the game (that was my point). but i am at least glad that Civ finally has a limit to units that need resources. i was tired of having hundreds of warships at the end game. this will cut down how many units are on the field.
My main hope is that the resources are a bit more realistic than Civ IV. Generally, on randomly generated maps, if you didn't turn on "balanced resources" it usually meant you were going to get pooched for something. I never saw the logic in not having access to stone for every civ. It's stone, it's everywhere, I understand marble, but basic stone, is basic stone.
Iron ore is a fairly common ore as well, yet I almost always got stuck in a location that even after building 4 cities and expanding my cultural borders I still had no copper, and no iron,(with none close by I might add) and only rarely had horses. To say nothing of oil, if I managed to survive that late into the game.
So if they truly are making them more evenly spread, but having a world wide pool for counting. Then I for one welcome it.
what about a different size for each improvent?
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