How's about giving units the ability to give you a tech after a victorious battle with something more advanced than your most advanced unit. Also when you conquer a city you gain a tech that the enemy civ had that you didn't. Now if you don't want your enemy gaining a tech off your back and you don't think that you can defend your city you can select remove records. This option would pack up the records in the city's town hall/library.
As realistic as this actually really is... getting a tech outright isn't feasble, yeh they could have a random chance at taking some tech points but thats it, heck it could be alot of points towards a tech that empire has over you, assuming it has a library or educational center (helps to disencourage people from just building libraries everywhere, makes you double think it)...
but you can't get the kinds of techs they have in civ WAY to epic to steal, the techs represent much more than just research, still it would be funny to have a classical era civ sack a modern era city somehow and your spearmen find a book on how to destroy tanks!
Not a tech but just a bonus in research toward a tech. That would be best.
thats exactly what i was sayingOriginally Posted by VainApocalypse
Well in original civ you got a tech when you took enemy city.
Yeah original civ had this feature when you took a city. You could make it prgressive though. Like if you take a city with no science buildings then you get a little boost in research toasted tech they have and you don't. If it has a library then a little more, university even more, etc...
Like the random idea of tech discovering. But this should make a come back some way.
I agree with twhat you guys are saying. A lot of military advances were madde by examining the equipment and tactics of enemies, in order to better defeat them. So it stands to reason if someone has a more powerful technology then you you will try to emulate it. When you conquer a city, there should be a chance of discovering or aiding a technology under research. This could be increased depending on whether or not that city has a research building or not, (University, Library, Laboratory, Observatory, plus various wonders.) Because the secrets of the technology would likely be kept in one of those places.
Sounds like a possible unique ability to me...
As a UU, I think that this could make the civ overpowered; no need to research or build research related buildings when you can just focus on building an army and stealing it all.
Well that means you always have to be at war. If it is a Uability then it will probably just give you a few extra research toward a tech. But the ability would not replace science production.
Cause how would you be able to get someones tech if there units are superior to yours.
I agree with this. Scavaging the battlefield for advanced tech will not replace researching. Look at history as an example. The Soviets stole a B-29 that crash landed in Soviet territory, reversed engineered it and basically made a clone. This was the basis for future Soviet bombers; however, they didn't stop researching. They kept on researching for ways to improve the design.
I see scavaging the battlefield for tech not a very good long-term strategy, but as a way to effectively set a civ up well in the short-term so that civ has time to think of a better long term strategy.
Like you find a unit on the field that you dont know, then you discover technologie, but it happens at random.And for cities you take tech as long as it has a tech building.
Actually, I believe that this was implemented in civ 3... but I'm not sure
Right, imagine ethopia stealing (or i guess acquring...) european muskets... but in the end they couldn't advance on their own, and got stuck using muskets when europe was using rifles...
That's a very good analogy. Finding tech on the battlefield is good in the short term, but you can't get far in long term without researching. However, this short-term advantage could allow you to conquer a civ and use their cities for research.
yeah, this could work, provided it's not OP in the ways suggested already (not just giving a tech and not setup so that all you do is make armies and let others tech for you).
the more advanced the city is (uni's etc) the more knowledge you should gain from it. Possibly another option when you take over a city (pillage for knowledge) which may hurt the improvements but gains you broadbase tech gains in areas you don't have (or instant knowledge if you are working on that particular tech already).
Other options could include spreading this to culture policies. The locals are going to get very upset if their super 'free' lifestyle gets tossed if you are still a despot. You can learn from the locals and soak in the culture.
This could also, I suppose, take the place of the spy unit seeing as I have heard some threads say there will be no espionage. I liked spys
Civ 1 had a lot of things and was a great game for it's time, but you also could get battleships attacking phalanxes on the highest difficulty level with relative ease, so referencing civ 1 is probably going to work against an idea, not for it. Especially the data protection, "What is the third word in the first paragraph of page 60 in the instruction manual?" Bah!
I do like the idea of research towards an advancement though, a nice little boost. I do think the total amount you can get from foreign parts/documents should be limited somehow.
Another idea that may work would be a research multiplier. You invade a city with a higher tech defender or an educational institution and find evidence of a more advanced technology (not necessarily 100% of the time, frequency would need to be tested and balanced of course) and it can add a multiplier to your research rate for that technology, say an extra 10-30% while researching this technology. This would only be possible if you had the prerequisite technologies though.
This is an excellent point too, perhaps you would get the option to pay to upgrade your a unit if the technology provided a new military unit and no bonus towards the research? This may be an option even without prerequisite technologies (though I would increase the gold cost).
Last edited by DissonantOpulence; 07-20-2010 at 05:01 AM.
especially considering its hard to research heavily and maintain a large empire, the maintaince costs of it are immense often, so its hard to pay for extensive research... BUT civ 5 doesn't work that way anyways, research comes from wealth not paid by it, which actually does make senes realistically. this is more relevant too on higher difficulty when the AI gets research boosts, so it helps to prevent from being technologically dwarfed.
PS: Also like the idea of culture paying for social development
I personally do think this could work in two ways:
If you defeat an advanced unit on a battlefield, you might get a one-time bonus against this unit. This could work for specifik unit types - thus, if you defeat an Archery unit without having Archery discovered, you'd get a bonus for Archery (maybe something like 10-20 % tech worth), if you defeat a Cavalry unit you'll get a bonus for Horseback Riding, if you defeat a Muscetman you'll get a bonus for Gunpowder, etc. After all, like mentioned, it's well established that you get inspiration from your enemies.
Also, like people have suggested, when you conquer a library, you might get some bonus to some technologies known by other civilization but not you. After all, knowledge travels. Look at how the greek knowledge got taken over by the Arabs who then brought it to their great library in Cordoba, and then when the Spains conquered Cordoba, there was a huge influx (or re-influx) of knowledge to Europe that had been lost under the Roman empire.
Maybe there could be an option for a defender to destroy knowledge if he knows he'll loose town - to prevent enemy from gaining it? It would not be the first time in history books were burned to prevent information from going into the enemies hands, would it?
Also someone mentioned the problem with taking over something from enemy (say, Riffles) and then not being able to develop further. Maybe one could make it so that instead of gaining the technology, you gain the ability to build the unit (or maybe even just a limited number of that units - as in you capture a certain amount of riffles or whatever) - but you don't get the required technology!? Just a thought.
Also, even if you do get an advanced technology, won't you still need all prerequisite technologies to develop further along that branch?
well if you actually kill a unit that is farther down the tech branch than your units; then you should definitely get more research for the tech you are close to and get gradually less as it gets to the more modern unit tech. cause if you have inferior units then you should get rewarded big time; like an archer taking out a rifleman. you get lots of research help for all the techs leading up to Rifling.
but i am also reminded that if they are too inferior they cant win, do to the spearman beating tanks in the past; 2k coded it in that superior tech units will always win. now im not talking about musketmen vs riflemen but tanks vs any non gunpowder, or earlier. which all i have to say its about time. i used to get really pissssed why my destroyer would get beaten by a frigate. bull5hit!!! or some other navel unit combat frigate vs. carvel was also crap sometimes.
its not that earlier tech units loose agansit higher tech ones... its because the higher tech ones are almost always 3 times more powerful, the chances of are very slim that an archer can stop a rifleman, its there but not good (remeber that archers have first strike and riflemen may not, that gives a slight edge)
oh i thought they said they had basically fixed the whole tank vs spearman thing. a couple of months ago they had addressed it, or do you think i just miss understood what they said?
I'm pretty sure I heard the same thing. I'm pretty sure they didn't elaborate on exactly how it worked, just that it wasn't going to be an issue. My memory seems to think that it was implied that they found a new way (more than just strength disparity) to ensure this.
(Side note: Feels good to agree with and support you again)
When did we ever agree?!
I wonder if they just gave military units a number depending on the era they are from and if they are too different then the newer one is victorious.
No because your units will still be less advanced when they attack a more advanced civ so it would be extremely difficult to do that. This is so if your one or two techs down you'll be able to catch up. you might even be able to advance a bit if your research is that low but you definitely wont take all of they're tech. Let's say your invading a civ that has say 10 cities well you wouldn't gain but maybe 2, 3 tops.
no. that was goody huts.
(as a side note im basing this off of civ3 dunno if its the same for civ4)When did we ever agree?!
I wonder if they just gave military units a number depending on the era they are from and if they are too different then the newer one is victorious.
Maybe the strength ratio between offense:defense might get higher the more advanced a unit is. Like a unit from the ancient age might have a unit ratio of 2:1. the corresponding unit in the middle ages(the one the old unit upgrades to) would be 4:2. and industrial age 6:3. and modern age 12:6. This is only the base numbers they would be tweaked with terrain bonuses and the like.
Yeah I know what your talking about but the problem in the past has been when tanks attack a spearman fortified on a hill with many unit deffensive upgrades.
Sometimes the spearman wins which is BS. It don't matter what the upgrade or bonuses are a tank should never loss to a spearman.
That's why is you give each unit a number relevant to the era they are from and the numbers have a difference of 3 or more, the more advanced unit wins hands down.
Assuming that tanks were around in the time of alexander the great
Spearmen Probably could ambush tanks and hijack and destroy them...
So its possible, remotely but its possible...
Same thing with infantry, they can destroy tanks but tanks could run em over anyways...
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