English Strategy by GhOsT

[GhOsTSidRev]

English Strategy by GhOsT

Ok first let’s go over the bonuses.

Starting – Begin the game with Monarchy.
Why is this good?
a. You have access to +5 beakers Dye.
b. No one can get the Free Great Person from the first to bonus.
c. You also produce more culture from the Government.
d. It’s a free 120 beaker tech.

Ancient - +1 Long Bow archer defense.
Why is this good?
a. Your archers have 3 Defense.
b. Great defense.
c. Early cheap alternative to pikemen.

Medieval - +1 Naval Combat
Why is this good?
a. Offensive Naval Power

Industrial - +1 Hammer for Hills
Why is this good?
a. Cities that are settled or are settled near hills can produce.
b. Gain more hammers to produce units, buildings, wonders or to bank hammers.

Modern – Double Naval Support
Why is this good?
a. Gives units a substantial boost in attack and defense.
b. Obsolete such as warriors can be effective.


Objective – Is to get to Modern to use the Double Naval Support Bonus. You want Cruisers or Battle Ships. It depends on your situation.

Start:
H2H – You can go for a horse rush to take advantage of the AI. Work on 2 trees for 5 turns to get 2 warriors. Than work on 2 Sea tiles and get horse back. With the gold gathered from the warriors get your Horses out ASAP and start taking AI and pressure the human player.
Or
Work on 2 trees and get 2 warriors in 5 turns. Than work on 2 grasslands and grow London to pop 3. Then work on 2 tress and 1 grassland to get a settler.

FFA – Work on 2 trees and get 2 warriors in 5 turns. Than work on 2 grasslands and grow London to pop 3. Then work on 2 tress and 1 grassland to get a settler.



Tech Tree
Bronze
Pottery
Masonry
Irrigation – You should have 4 cities before getting this.
Alphabet (if not back filled)
Writing
Code of Laws – Bank hammers to pop settlers when you hit COL.
Literacy
Democracy – You can get Deomcracy after you get navi and keep expanding.
Construction/Currency (construction needed for tech path, currency can skip)
Mathematics
Navigation (Find the Atlantis important)
Invention
Banking (you should get it for free with 250g)
Use Atlantis for Feudalism, University, and Religion or save it for later
Steam Power
GS (if you have) either for Industrialization or Steel or both

Vet Cruiser Fleet – Vet Legion army attack = 36
Vet Archer army Defense = 30
Vet Pike army Defense = 31.5
Vet Legion Attack = 29

Vet Battle Ship Fleet – Vet Legion army Attack = 63
Vet Archer army Defense = 48
Vet Pike army Defense = 49.5
Vet Legion Attack = 57

The English seem to have a hill near the starting cap. Only move if you think you should. Look at who you are facing. I usually don’t. Why? Because you want the hill bonus after 14 techs. Work on 2 trees and make 2 warriors in 5 turns. Explore, get barbs, and take choke points over. If you get a spy or caravan try exploring the coast before cashing them in. You want to know where the dye is located. After the first 2 warriors grow London to 3 pop and make a settler. I usually get my free settler at turn 10-15. Turn ten is perfect. Means you can buy the settler from London after 7 turns of growing. First 2 cities should be settled by DYE with a tree, grassland and fish. The world is never perfect but 2 dye cities if not 1 dye city and 1 fish city. If no dye at all you could try the seas. I wouldn’t. Try to find fish, oxen, wheat, whale with coast and a tree. Now after you get your settler out of London grow it again and get another one while teching with the other 2. Once you get bronze if you have plenty of gold waste some to buy or buy/build one archer in every city. If you feel safe than leave them open honestly. Now go for irrigation. You want this one badly. If you know there’s no way in getting it than go straight for Col and don’t waste time. If you waste time it could cost you especially to civs like America or China. Before irrigation you usually have 3-5 cities before hitting it. 5 are perfect, 4 are practical, 3 are eh and anything lower means you already lost. Once you get irrigation keep making settlers out of London and have all the coastal cities work on one tree and rest tech. Why? Because now you’re going for Col and you want all your cities to pop settlers when Col hits. Also make legions if you need by working hammers and gold. You’re first GP you usually save. Humanitarian, Artist, Explorer you can use if it makes sense. Scientist, Great builder and Great leader save. When in Col either buy those banked settlers or work on some gold for some turns to get them out quick. You want to settle these cities at the coasts near special resources that either gives extra hammers, food or tech. Get one city settled on a nice production spot. Late bcs – 0ad you should have 6-10 cities. 6 being bad and 10 being great. Get your production city defense, barracks and that free workshop. Getting the free workshop isn’t important. Get a production city for the long run. Go to democracy right away after settlers are made. Use cities that can produce for archers. Use other cities for settlers or to bank hammers for the future. Your production city should make single vet legions and catapult armies. Use the legions and catapults for counter attacks. Now this is where you should think about what to do with the accumulated GP. If you have 2 GS pop Steam and than Steel. You can get Industrialization. Doing it like this can get you Steel 200ad-600ad. Battleships defense is so high it requires Bombers to counter effectively. Switch everything to gold and hammers. Get a battle ship fleet packed with Single vet non vet legions and catapult armies with archer armies as defense. Really all you need is 2 Vet Legion armies and a bunch of single units of any kind.

Cruiser Fleet = 31.5 added to attack and defense
Battle Ship Fleet = 58.5 added to attack and defense

When you attack switch to republic and start making cities in gaps. Start making markets and banks for an economic victory if you have too while banking hammers for WORLD BANK.

Wonders to build :

Oxford : Build it for bombers or build it so no one else can.

East India Company : If you got a great builder rush this wonder.

Samurai Castle : Get that boost in attack to hold your borders and to make attacking easier.

How to use Great people :

GS : Rush either or all Invention, Steam, Steel and Industrialization.

GB : Rush Oxford, East India Company, Samurai Castle.

GE : Get Gold when needed.

GA : Use to flip a city. Either early or later to counter an attack.

GL : You can use for a English Knight Rush, or for your production city for units you pump out.

GH : Use usually when you got 6-10 cities settled.

Units to use

Legions - Use them for counter attacks and later for modern naval attack.

Catapults - same as legions.

Archers - Use them for Defense.

Attack -
When attacking use 2 Vet legion armies the rest single units of any kind because your double naval support is so substantial that single units can rock cities.

Knight Rush
I know the English can knight rush fast. If that what you choose it’s easy to do. You need at least 4 cities. Hoping 3 for Dye while one city banks hammers. Use your gold to buy a barracks or use a Great Leader or both in a city that can work on 3 trees. Tech straight to Feud and one city to bank hammers for knights. Go for Bronze working, Horse Back, and than Feud. After getting feud switch those tech cities to build/gold and start making those knights. If you get a Great scientist use it to rush Religion after you tech Feud. This will give you extra attack when switching to Fund. Than continue with the strategy.

My strategy is to go straight for the Double Naval Support while defending your self. Hope you like this strategy.

[GhOsTSidRev]

For future use.

[dukeblue1987]

You hit a lot of key points for the English.

I like that you skip knights. English knights are no better than anyone else in my opinion. If you get a GS early.... MAYBE if you have a lot of gold/production. Other than that, you save 2-3 turns by not having to tech Monarchy. You're likely 2-3 turns behind anyways, because you have no real tech bonus unless the map is filled with dye.

I like how getting to Modern with Steam Power is the key part of the strategy.


Now for some of my personal tastes...

I like to move my settler often in H2H. Walk ins are common. Map knowledge is valuable. Getting closer to barbs saves turns.

Never rule out horses in H2H. Yes, English archers are strong. However, they can't kill anything, so you have to build them everywhere. They add up quickly, even at 10 hammers.

I would rarely go for irrigation before CoL. In my opinion, the irrigation bonus is very overrated. I like getting COL, making cities, and teching irrigation in 2 turns if it is still available.

Make sure you still build Oxford. If they oxford bombers, your battleships can die.

Also, think about putting cats on the ships. They can't get injured, so the naval support works better. However, you might have leftover legions from defending... so load them up too!

[BigStank]

In following your tech order there's a good chance your going to tech straight from CoLs to Democracy(assuming you wont beat the oh so common chinese player to the bonus, or someone who really targets it). Do you gold for while between the two techs to crank out enough setters to really plow through the medieval? I always try to hold off as long as possible from teching democracy with the english as it obsoletes their archers, upping the cost of defensive units with no gain in defense. Expansion can easily lead to +50% in your tech rate, plus those forrests and hills need to grabbed up to crank out units for the modern onslaught. Not saying that democracy isn't necessary at some point but I personally work gold for a while to expand or work on some other techs as I hammer more settlers.

When It comes to the GS I would rather use it on Industrialization before Steam power or steel if the bonus is there. The gold flow just opens up your options soooo much. If someone might contest you for with the oxford then rush it first, and you win. Battleships are completely unecessary if you're the one holding AF. If its a clean tech tree ahead of you then just save the gold on your way to steam power a few turns later and rush a couple cruiser fleets asap. If you can't roll through them with cruiser support then battleships aren't going to be a huge game changer(assuming you're not playing the aztecs).

Other than these two points I really like your appproach. You laid out a solid gameplan for surviving to the modern and going for the kill. Definitely the most consistent way to win in mp with the English. Nice Strat.

[elthrasher]

Cruiser Fleet – Vet Legion army attack = 36
Vet Archer army Defense = 30
Vet Pike army Defense = 31.5
Vet Legion Attack = 29

Battle Ship Fleet – Vet Legion army Attack = 63
Vet Archer army Defense = 48
Vet Pike army Defense = 49.5
Vet Legion Attack = 57

I'm not sure what these numbers are. An English vet cruiser fleet has (6+1) * 3 * 1.5 = 31.5 on both attack and defense. This is the naval support you get both attacking and defending. So your vet legion army should have 40.5, your vet archer army should have 45, etc. For battleships it's (12+1) * 3 * 1.5 = 58.5. This is again the naval support for both attack and defense.

In any case, legions aren't my favorite unit to use with English naval support. They will win a lot, but they will get wounded and when they get wounded, their naval support drops by 1/3 and 2/3. Catapults are better because they will always have the full naval support. That's not to say you shouldn't use any units at your disposal. Typically if I have a slight tech edge as the English, I will load up my first cruiser fleet by emptying out all nearby cities. Give me your warriors, archers, pikemen, legions, etc. They are all now strong enough to take down a pike army or defend against knights.

[Aemon Al Caar]

I have found that the English are driven heavily by the first GP they get.

If it is a GL, then early Knights is the only rational choice, with Cats a close second I like Knights for the better defense than Cats, but Cats Army with March and a archer army with March to defend it is scary powerful.

GS, early Knights is reasonable, but if you are close in tech, consider Invention or Gun Powder. English riflemen with full cruiser naval support works pretty good.

GB- wait it out for Oxford, consider Oxford fighters if you are behind in tech, alternatively, Leos if you have a lot of upgradeable units.

GA- just adds another city, so will not change strategy unleass it is a really good city

GE- does nothing to change my strat

All in all, if you get anyhting other than a GS or GE, the English are a great mid game rushing civ. I rarely let the game et to modern with them unless my first GP is one of those.

Aemon

[dukeblue1987]

When It comes to the GS I would rather use it on Industrialization before Steam power or steel if the bonus is there. The gold flow just opens up your options soooo much. If someone might contest you for with the oxford then rush it first, and you win. Battleships are completely unecessary if you're the one holding AF. If its a clean tech tree ahead of you then just save the gold on your way to steam power a few turns later and rush a couple cruiser fleets asap. If you can't roll through them with cruiser support then battleships aren't going to be a huge game changer(assuming you're not playing the aztecs).

I agree, a GS should be used for Industrialization (or corporation) if the bonus is there. Before steam/steel.

I would prefer to build oxford for networking, and then use your double naval support. If you oxford bombers there is a chance the opponent can get it from taking one of your cities. There is no way he can get double naval support from you. Although if you're careful, bombers are fine too

[GhOsTSidRev]

In following your tech order there's a good chance your going to tech straight from CoLs to Democracy(assuming you wont beat the oh so common chinese player to the bonus, or someone who really targets it). Do you gold for while between the two techs to crank out enough setters to really plow through the medieval? I always try to hold off as long as possible from teching democracy with the english as it obsoletes their archers, upping the cost of defensive units with no gain in defense. Expansion can easily lead to +50% in your tech rate, plus those forrests and hills need to grabbed up to crank out units for the modern onslaught. Not saying that democracy isn't necessary at some point but I personally work gold for a while to expand or work on some other techs as I hammer more settlers.

When It comes to the GS I would rather use it on Industrialization before Steam power or steel if the bonus is there. The gold flow just opens up your options soooo much. If someone might contest you for with the oxford then rush it first, and you win. Battleships are completely unecessary if you're the one holding AF. If its a clean tech tree ahead of you then just save the gold on your way to steam power a few turns later and rush a couple cruiser fleets asap. If you can't roll through them with cruiser support then battleships aren't going to be a huge game changer(assuming you're not playing the aztecs).

Other than these two points I really like your appproach. You laid out a solid gameplan for surviving to the modern and going for the kill. Definitely the most consistent way to win in mp with the English. Nice Strat.

Yes use as many turns as you see fit to get those settlers out before Democ. You wanna get into Democracy fast though because your beakers pick up than you can go straight for cruiser fleets or battle ships.

[FF-GTR]

In any case, legions aren't my favorite unit to use with English naval support. They will win a lot, but they will get wounded and when they get wounded, their naval support drops by 1/3 and 2/3. Catapults are better because they will always have the full naval support.

Are you talking about armies or single units?

If single units won't single cats die more often due to hit points? I would think two legions for the price of a cat is the way to go. Or even two archers.

Or am I misunderstanding?

[GhOsTSidRev]

I agree, a GS should be used for Industrialization (or corporation) if the bonus is there. Before steam/steel.

I would prefer to build oxford for networking, and then use your double naval support. If you oxford bombers there is a chance the opponent can get it from taking one of your cities. There is no way he can get double naval support from you. Although if you're careful, bombers are fine too

You can use it for Industrial. It matters where your opponent is and who it is. American with steam power will kill your cruisers. This is why Battle Ships are great because you cant effectivly attack them without bombers.

[Sid done dis]

I'd most def want to use a Scientist on Industrialization than Steam Power. Steam is only 340, and shouldn't take that long to get. Then you can use an extra Scientist on Steel if you have one, if you don't, then you can use the gold from Industrialization to afford Cruisers and Battleships, because you'll have a lot of gold saved up while you are teching your way up to steam power.

I don't really go for Irrigation that much with the English. In the same amount of time, you could be getting to Code of Laws, and have settler out of your 2 population cities and have them grow back to 2 pop, that you can going to Irrigation, and then to Code of Laws. It can make sense to keep Irrigation from other players, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get it, unless you've got a lot of dye early in the game.

Seems like an ok strategy, though Religion isn't really needed IMO, unless you just really want it. Maybe the culture bonus and the +1 attack to help you defend your cities will make it worth it. But, the +1 attack isn't all that necessary if you are waiting for the double naval support anyway. It's just another few hit points that will be overshadowed by the naval support.

I don't love the knight rush for them either, unless I get a Great Builder or a Great Leader. Then you can get a barracks and get elite knight armies, or you can build a barracks, rush Samurai Castle, and then attack well. Otherwise, english knights suck, unless you are playing a lot of newbs.

[MadDjinn]

I'm more of a fan of the knight rush, then get to modern as fast as possible. but, I also want to have a barracks in a city so that it's vet knights. If you go this route, you can get them in ancient. so they aren't 'the same as everyone else' since they're much cheaper to make. And you'll get fundy before anyone else as well (aside from arabs and indians), adding to your culture and getting the fundy attack. add a GL and they should end the game for you.

after teching feud/make 3 knight armies (store prod in the 3 forest city to speed it up) and finishing religion, then it's off to the races expanding/teching all the way to modern. Any units you have left will go nicely with the naval support.

My main concerns with the tech plan are:
- not teching legions. So you're backfilling it some time after/during your expansion phase. meaning, no counter units til then. This can fail if a spanish player drops a vet galleon fleet off with archers/legions of their own. or an Indian player wanders by with multiple fundy legions/horses. Or an Arab player drops off fundy cat's.

- you have to tech Lit no matter what if going to Dem. unless you go over 60 beakers/turn (likely a good target for expansion), in which case tech something else before Dem. to backfil.

- other than that, Sure, head to steel if you find a GS. you can always go back to Industrial later, though more than likely you'll need the cash from industrial to build/rush the battleships. it'll be a nice surprise. It'll be even better if you can GS Steel without going into modern to make them slightly cheaper.

[elthrasher]

Are you talking about armies or single units?

If single units won't single cats die more often due to hit points? I would think two legions for the price of a cat is the way to go. Or even two archers.

Or am I misunderstanding?

The cats will usually win if you're attacking at 35.5 - 18 or so. Legions or archers work fine too, but you might be slowed down a little having to heal them. I don't find the cost of 20 hammers by industrial/modern to be very expensive for a catapult. It's better than a 15 hammer pikeman, which is the other unit you could probably produce quickly. The 3 hp units will often take at least one wound, even when they have a huge advantage.

I'm talking single units. There's not any reason to make armies with double naval support unless you're up against some seriously high defense totals (like modern infantry armies).

[GhOsTSidRev]

Are you talking about armies or single units?

If single units won't single cats die more often due to hit points? I would think two legions for the price of a cat is the way to go. Or even two archers.

Or am I misunderstanding?

Your not missing anything. Legions will be better in this case. Youll have 2 for every 1 cat. Healing wont be a problem because youll easily have 15 Single Vet and non vet legions no problem. Catapults are for other civs.

[Sid done dis]

You can use it for Industrial. It matters where your opponent is and who it is. American with steam power will kill your cruisers. This is why Battle Ships are great because you cant effectivly attack them without bombers.

The American player will probably kill you before you get to steam power anyway, unless you are getting there by 0AD. It's hard for the English to get to the modern against the Americans.

[GhOsTSidRev]

I'm more of a fan of the knight rush, then get to modern as fast as possible. but, I also want to have a barracks in a city so that it's vet knights. If you go this route, you can get them in ancient. so they aren't 'the same as everyone else' since they're much cheaper to make. And you'll get fundy before anyone else as well (aside from arabs and indians), adding to your culture and getting the fundy attack. add a GL and they should end the game for you.

after teching feud/make 3 knight armies (store prod in the 3 forest city to speed it up) and finishing religion, then it's off to the races expanding/teching all the way to modern. Any units you have left will go nicely with the naval support.

My main concerns with the tech plan are:
- not teching legions. So you're backfilling it some time after/during your expansion phase. meaning, no counter units til then. This can fail if a spanish player drops a vet galleon fleet off with archers/legions of their own. or an Indian player wanders by with multiple fundy legions/horses. Or an Arab player drops off fundy cat's.

- you have to tech Lit no matter what if going to Dem. unless you go over 60 beakers/turn (likely a good target for expansion), in which case tech something else before Dem. to backfil.

- other than that, Sure, head to steel if you find a GS. you can always go back to Industrial later, though more than likely you'll need the cash from industrial to build/rush the battleships. it'll be a nice surprise. It'll be even better if you can GS Steel without going into modern to make them slightly cheaper.

I thought Iron Working is self explanatory. Get them if you need them. Its a 30 beaker tech. PLus my tech tree says go for construction IW is a Pre req. Come on Mad.

[GhOsTSidRev]

I'd most def want to use a Scientist on Industrialization than Steam Power. Steam is only 340, and shouldn't take that long to get. Then you can use an extra Scientist on Steel if you have one, if you don't, then you can use the gold from Industrialization to afford Cruisers and Battleships, because you'll have a lot of gold saved up while you are teching your way up to steam power.

I don't really go for Irrigation that much with the English. In the same amount of time, you could be getting to Code of Laws, and have settler out of your 2 population cities and have them grow back to 2 pop, that you can going to Irrigation, and then to Code of Laws. It can make sense to keep Irrigation from other players, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get it, unless you've got a lot of dye early in the game.

Seems like an ok strategy, though Religion isn't really needed IMO, unless you just really want it. Maybe the culture bonus and the +1 attack to help you defend your cities will make it worth it. But, the +1 attack isn't all that necessary if you are waiting for the double naval support anyway. It's just another few hit points that will be overshadowed by the naval support.

I don't love the knight rush for them either, unless I get a Great Builder or a Great Leader. Then you can get a barracks and get elite knight armies, or you can build a barracks, rush Samurai Castle, and then attack well. Otherwise, english knights suck, unless you are playing a lot of newbs.

You can tech Steam and Gs Indus and Steel or which ever. ITs game dependent. Also Col with dye cities early is no good. Dye cities usually arent good at growing and production.

[elthrasher]

Your not missing anything. Legions will be better in this case. Youll have 2 for every 1 cat. Healing wont be a problem because youll easily have 15 Single Vet and non vet legions no problem. Catapults are for other civs.

I don't really see the point in building legions just for the modern naval support rush. If you need them earlier, fine, but 2 attack just isn't very important when your naval support gives 31.5. I'm just as happy to use archers or warriors.

[GhOsTSidRev]

Stupid comment I erased it.

[GhOsTSidRev]

I don't really see the point in building legions just for the modern naval support rush. If you need them earlier, fine, but 2 attack just isn't very important when your naval support gives 31.5. I'm just as happy to use archers or warriors.

The reason why for legions is your using them as early counters. You want vet for 3 attack. Form them if a rush comes. Than use them for your offensive. 34.5 attack with a single legion is MURDER. Having ten of them attack is game.

[GhOsTSidRev]

The American player will probably kill you before you get to steam power anyway, unless you are getting there by 0AD. It's hard for the English to get to the modern against the Americans.

English archers hold their own for a while. English Choke points are the hardest to get around too.

[FF-GTR]

The cats will usually win if you're attacking at 35.5 - 18 or so. Legions or archers work fine too, but you might be slowed down a little having to heal them. I don't find the cost of 20 hammers by industrial/modern to be very expensive for a catapult.

But doesn't the catapult require (W, W, W) to win against a 3 HP defender, and anything else it dies? So in those cases where you would have had a wounded legion, wouldn't you instead have a dead cat?

[JackHall2003]

Good job mate. I like it.

[dukeblue1987]

Are you talking about armies or single units?

If single units won't single cats die more often due to hit points? I would think two legions for the price of a cat is the way to go. Or even two archers.

Or am I misunderstanding?

The good thing about cats is they auto heal. Single units are OK, armies are good but expensive. Yes, single units do have a decent chance of losing.

Here is the problem with legions/archers/warriors. They get wounded. If a warrior is double wounded, he only gets 1/3 of the naval support. Cats can attack a full strength every time.

I would load up a bunch of left over archers, warriors, etc, and then start building cats from there.

[GhOsTSidRev]

Im gonna re edit my strat.

[FF-GTR]

The good thing about cats is they auto heal. Single units are OK, armies are good but expensive. Yes, single units do have a decent chance of losing.

Here is the problem with legions/archers/warriors. They get wounded. If a warrior is double wounded, he only gets 1/3 of the naval support. Cats can attack a full strength every time.

I would load up a bunch of left over archers, warriors, etc, and then start building cats from there.

But that's not my point. If I understand the battle system (or at least the most popular theory for it around here) correctly, isn't the chance of a wounded warrior/legion/archer exactly the same as a dead cat?

Now if I don't understand the system, cats make more sense, and I would like to learn!

[elthrasher]

The reason why for legions is your using them as early counters. You want vet for 3 attack. Form them if a rush comes. Than use them for your offensive. 34.5 attack with a single legion is MURDER. Having ten of them attack is game.

I haven't really found the need to have many counters when playing England, but most people aren't very good at pressing. If you need legions to fight off an attack, then they're great to have. But in modern with double naval support, 10 legions, 10 archers, 10 warriors, 5 archers, 3 pikemen and a catapult...it's all pretty much the same. You will have that city. I wouldn't build legions just to use them in modern.

I think England is a great catapult civ though. The main problem with cats is if they are in the city and you have a fortified archer (4 defense), an attacker will kill your stupid cats (4.5 defense if vet) due to stupid defender rules. No problem with England as their fortified archer will have 6 defense and will always be chosen for the defender. Just a matter of taste, really, IMO.

But doesn't the catapult require (W, W, W) to win against a 3 HP defender, and anything else it dies? So in those cases where you would have had a wounded legion, wouldn't you instead have a dead cat?

Hmm...you might think so, but it hasn't been my experience. Cats have worked really well for me. Of course I don't build a lot of them. I'm mostly just all about having the cruiser fleet and then about ~10 different units (mostly old warriors and archers) that can attack. It doesn't really matter what they are. It's just that if I need to supplement my forces, I'll probably rush a couple of catapults.

[GhOsTSidRev]

But that's not my point. If I understand the battle system (or at least the most popular theory for it around here) correctly, isn't the chance of a wounded warrior/legion/archer exactly the same as a dead cat?

Now if I don't understand the system, cats make more sense, and I would like to learn!

Your right catapults have to be used in armies to make the auto heal work. Single ones will just die.

[MadDjinn]

I thought Iron Working is self explanatory. Get them if you need them. Its a 30 beaker tech. PLus my tech tree says go for construction IW is a Pre req. Come on Mad.

nothing is self explanatory in a strategy where you lay out paths.
yeah, IW is a pre-req for construction and you'll likely backfill IW somewhere.

but you don't specify when to get IW (except after COL expansion you say build them). Before going to irrigation? before going to COL? hope no one every comes near you and then build them after a backfill?

just a bit to help you refine the strategy so that others can use it better. Gotta be obvious when you say you need to do x for y.

As per your other comment, no one will say 'great job' until you refine this a bit more. It needs a bit of work to be a viable strategy. Yes, it works in your head and in gameplay, but for explaining it to someone else you need refinement to get those ideas into other peoples heads. Oh, and please put in some paragraph breaks in that middle block of text (mainly due to the white text on black background issues of readability)

besides, this reads like 'get archers and choke, expand, hope no one every comes near you, attack with legions/fleets in modern'. which is not a sound strategy. you even mention starting to produce legions AFTER COL expansion (build prod city at that point) so you've got just the archers to hope keep you alive at 0 AD? not feasible against a good player.

I like the overall thought line of what you're trying to say, but you should refine it to be usable against more than noobs.

[GhOsTSidRev]

nothing is self explanatory in a strategy where you lay out paths.
yeah, IW is a pre-req for construction and you'll likely backfill IW somewhere.

but you don't specify when to get IW (except after COL expansion you say build them). Before going to irrigation? before going to COL? hope no one every comes near you and then build them after a backfill?

just a bit to help you refine the strategy so that others can use it better. Gotta be obvious when you say you need to do x for y.

As per your other comment, no one will say 'great job' until you refine this a bit more. It needs a bit of work to be a viable strategy. Yes, it works in your head and in gameplay, but for explaining it to someone else you need refinement to get those ideas into other peoples heads. Oh, and please put in some paragraph breaks in that middle block of text (mainly due to the white text on black background issues of readability)

besides, this reads like 'get archers and choke, expand, hope no one every comes near you, attack with legions/fleets in modern'. which is not a sound strategy. you even mention starting to produce legions AFTER COL expansion (build prod city at that point) so you've got just the archers to hope keep you alive at 0 AD? not feasible against a good player.

I like the overall thought line of what you're trying to say, but you should refine it to be usable against more than noobs.

There is no reason to say when to get IW. Your always banking hammers there fore teching it in one turn then switching production will work through out the game.

I take back my a hole statement

[GhOsTSidRev]

There I edited the strategy if you need to make counters against good players.

[JackHall2003]

EDIT: Never mind, all good.

[Grayson]

Im pretty suprised at all you. No one said good job or anything. Its more like you all think your the best and this strategy is newbie. The Strat gets me at my enemies door step by 200ad with fleets and legions.

welcome to the world of strategy writing

If people just say good job, the rest of the posts are pretty meaningless anyway. At least people are posting on topic here, and actually questioning the content in your strategy. Yeah, people will give their own spin on a civ, and people will question why you do things, and offer opinions that they think are improvements and/or better ways to play, but that's nothing to get upset about. No one said this strat is newbie. It's pretty good. It has some things that are different from the other English strategies. Mainly because it doesn't focus on knights, which is a plus in my books. I hate the English Knight Rush. It's pretty crappy most of the time, and you wisely advise to sidestep it, but still provide a way to use if the ppl want to go that route.

Keep writing strategies. They are my favorite part of this forum. Yeah, it's not easy to write up things that haven't been said before, but I think you've done a really good job at adding a new spin to a lot of things.

In particular:

• Working 1 hammer 1 trade while teching to Code of Laws. I don't think that's been discussed here before. If you get irrigation first, this can be extremely effective. It's a nice little boost to expansion for a civ that's not that great at expanding. It takes a few turns to set up, but I like it.
• I like the one production city + rest of the cities on trade, spamming legions for early counters, and later on having attacking units if you need them. Plus, getting Iron Working will increase your chances of getting a GL. I'd even take the elite legions over knights sometimes. Or you can spam a few legion armies, and then work on knights.
• Which synchs in very nicely with the tech path. There's always going to be a few tweaks on tech path depending on the game, and if you list a tech path, then people will assume you mean to stick to it no matter what, but no good player will just use a reference and not pay attention to what's going on in the game. It's a general blueprint, and it's a nice one to get to the modern efficently.

Now, go write your Roman strategy

[GhOsTSidRev]

welcome to the world of strategy writing

If people just say good job, the rest of the posts are pretty meaningless anyway. At least people are posting on topic here, and actually questioning the content in your strategy. Yeah, people will give their own spin on a civ, and people will question why you do things, and offer opinions that they think are improvements and/or better ways to play, but that's nothing to get upset about. No one said this strat is newbie. It's pretty good. It has some things that are different from the other English strategies. Mainly because it doesn't focus on knights, which is a plus in my books. I hate the English Knight Rush. It's pretty crappy most of the time, and you wisely advise to sidestep it, but still provide a way to use if the ppl want to go that route.

Keep writing strategies. They are my favorite part of this forum. Yeah, it's not easy to write up things that haven't been said before, but I think you've done a really good job at adding a new spin to a lot of things.

In particular:

• Working 1 hammer 1 trade while teching to Code of Laws. I don't think that's been discussed here before. If you get irrigation first, this can be extremely effective. It's a nice little boost to expansion for a civ that's not that great at expanding. It takes a few turns to set up, but I like it.
• I like the one production city + rest of the cities on trade, spamming legions for early counters, and later on having attacking units if you need them. Plus, getting Iron Working will increase your chances of getting a GL. I'd even take the elite legions over knights sometimes. Or you can spam a few legion armies, and then work on knights.
• Which synchs in very nicely with the tech path. There's always going to be a few tweaks on tech path depending on the game, and if you list a tech path, then people will assume you mean to stick to it no matter what, but no good player will just use a reference and not pay attention to what's going on in the game. It's a general blueprint, and it's a nice one to get to the modern efficently.

Now, go write your Roman strategy

Thanks Grayson. You uped my spirit. Im gonna edit this a bit more to make it more sound.

[elthrasher]

But that's not my point. If I understand the battle system (or at least the most popular theory for it around here) correctly, isn't the chance of a wounded warrior/legion/archer exactly the same as a dead cat?

Now if I don't understand the system, cats make more sense, and I would like to learn!

I've used non-vet catapults (singles, not armies) with English cruiser fleets to take archer and pikemen armies on multiple occasions. I've also done the same with warriors and archers. The cats almost always win. The warriors/archers/legions/whatever almost always win too, but they also almost always get wounded.

I'd put forth that my theory about combat odds is not 100% solid, but that's already known as Sid himself stated that you have better odds to win 20v10 than you do to win 2v1. The cat attack is usually something like 35v18 and I can't recall having lost.

Your right catapults have to be used in armies to make the auto heal work. Single ones will just die.

Have you had this experience or are you just flinging poo?

[FF-GTR]

I'd put forth that my theory about combat odds is not 100% solid, but that's already known as Sid himself stated that you have better odds to win 20v10 than you do to win 2v1. The cat attack is usually something like 35v18 and I can't recall having lost.

OK that makes sense. I didn't know that re Sid's comments.

I can't make up my mind whether I like or don't like the fact the battle mechanics have a bit of black magic in them that we can't piece together.

[elthrasher]

OK that makes sense. I didn't know that re Sid's comments.

There's a video of him discussing it in the video archive.

[GhOsTSidRev]

England is the BOMB!

[GhOsTSidRev]

In following your tech order there's a good chance your going to tech straight from CoLs to Democracy(assuming you wont beat the oh so common chinese player to the bonus, or someone who really targets it). Do you gold for while between the two techs to crank out enough setters to really plow through the medieval? I always try to hold off as long as possible from teching democracy with the english as it obsoletes their archers, upping the cost of defensive units with no gain in defense. Expansion can easily lead to +50% in your tech rate, plus those forrests and hills need to grabbed up to crank out units for the modern onslaught. Not saying that democracy isn't necessary at some point but I personally work gold for a while to expand or work on some other techs as I hammer more settlers.

When It comes to the GS I would rather use it on Industrialization before Steam power or steel if the bonus is there. The gold flow just opens up your options soooo much. If someone might contest you for with the oxford then rush it first, and you win. Battleships are completely unecessary if you're the one holding AF. If its a clean tech tree ahead of you then just save the gold on your way to steam power a few turns later and rush a couple cruiser fleets asap. If you can't roll through them with cruiser support then battleships aren't going to be a huge game changer(assuming you're not playing the aztecs).

Other than these two points I really like your appproach. You laid out a solid gameplan for surviving to the modern and going for the kill. Definitely the most consistent way to win in mp with the English. Nice Strat.

Thanks for your post and I have taken your thoughts and implemented it in the strat.

[GhOsTSidRev]

Thank you all for posting your comments. I think I added your points in my strat to make it more flexible. Post more comments if you think it needs to be more explanatory.