View Poll Results: Do you agree that Bioshock 2 levels were less interesting, compared to Bioshock 1??
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Why the lack of interesting locations in Bioshock 2?
The beauty with Bioshock was that many of it's levels were very unique keeping things constantly fresh. We experienced a creepy Medical Pavilion, that gave us many spooks.
Then Neptune Bounty was a bit different, in that it was less creepy, but was going for a more 50's San Francisco dock feel. Not to mention we got to see Raptures Postal System, and we got to see the lavish McDonough's Tavern, and explore the various apartments. As well as go through the various jails.
After, we were placed in a more corridor feel in Smugglers Bay, and again was a through back to everything we witnessed during the first 2 levels.
Though no doubt, Arcadia was a rose in a field of sand. The few levels we got to experience we're mutilated, and felt like a battlefield. But Arcadia had tree's, and fields of grass. It was beautiful, especially the tea garden. Streams flowing beneath your feet, then the waterfall with the mill. It was beatiful, even the farmers market was a nice touch. Giving us the taste of what shopping was like in Rapture.
Next the coveted Fort Frolic. Easily the best levels in the game. The whole area was like a 50's mall, but with style. The theater were we witnessed Kyle's death, and the various stores really gave the feeling of 50's, from the cigar shops, to the clothe shops. It really sold me the overall atmosphere that Bioshock was trying to achieve.
Surprisingly though, I thought very highly of Hephustus. I know some like it, some don't. But to me it really gave us another side of Rapture. Seeing the spewing streams of volcano lava was a nice visual treat. It was nice to reddish water, rather than blue. Also the whole area felt like a cool, steam punk feel.
I can go on, but these interesting locations were one of many things that made the original bioshock such a success.
With Bioshock 2 I never felt this uniqueness.
With Bioshock 1 each level attempted to give you a different feel each time, but with Bioshock 2 I felt like I kept going into these same run down area's.
Anyone agree? Would like to hear your thoughts!
I do completely agree! Bioshock 2 felt so linear in comparison, I think it had a lot to do with the way you started and ended in levels in the same place, on the weird train-line thing. The bathysphere and the swapping between already visited areas was a much better idea. Not to mention that Sinclair has no real personality, feels like he's been voice acted by and Englishman with a very bad Texan accent, Atlas was a much better compatriot, even when he turned into Frank Fontaine he still had a very significant feel to him.
For me, I got very irritated very quickly at how each level was just one big loop, or you had to go from one place to another and back again. Example: Dionysus Park; great idea for a level there guys, walk among this old haven/commune which you can tell used to look great, but by convientently havng it flooded and covered in crap, they saved themselves a lot of effort in the detail. If you look at the map (which I can't do right now, PS3 is broken pah ) then it's vaguely cross shaped, i.e. 3 bits with 3 seperate BD's radiate out from a central area, to a certain extent. Does that make sense?
There's also not a massive sense of progression... using bulkheads on BS1 actually felt like you were travelling into a new area. With the train system that they currently use, all it feels like is (and this is literally true) you've undergone a tiny little animation of the train moving forward, you've hit a loading screen, the train is replaced and a new map pops up. It's just not as slick as BS1 ever was.
Despite all this, when I really think about it, some levels do come to mind in which they actually felt like real places. Siren Alley (despite the Pink Pearl dilemma), especially when you're fighting your way through the rushing water after it's been flooded again. Fontain Futureistics, because you actually do progress into Gil Alexander's secret chamber. OH that is until you have to go BACK to the train. Maybe not so much then.
Also in other news: Doesn't anyone else get really pissed off with the way Sinclair says "Whoa son, you better apply the breaks before you dash yourself against that glacier" in Ryan Amusements, and you don't even have a choice it stops anyway. I do quite hate the whole PRESS X NOT TO DIEEEE cutscenes, but they could have done something so much better, like maybe just a cutscene, like you jump from the speeding train just before a massive ice crystal crushes the entire cockpit, but it's alright because there's another trainline next door with a train waiting at it so you could just travel on that when you unfreeze the door. Oh, and did I forget to mention that the frosting on the hunk of metal is like the worst looking "glacier" I've ever seen? I could lick it off and still not manage to get my tongue stuck to the metal.
Anyway, don't get me wrong, I genuinely do love BS2
Why is there a smiley face for yes and frown for no?
anyway I for one actually loved the levels in Bioshock 2,I thought they were just as interesting as the Bioshock 1 levels
Poll bias, obviously.
Originally Posted by Adam Addict L
Bioshock1 100% creative place names
Bioshock2 50% creative names
Personally I could have done with somewhat less laboratories after med pavilion, Ryan Industries...then we have Fontaine Futuristics, and Persephone. YAWN, more labs everywhere. However they're a Rapture staple, so I suppose I can look past that.
Also, there were a few non-nonsensical bits here and there... some of it was a bit hard to navigate (maze-like)... but other than that, c'mon, the maps were the most redeeming feature of the game, I think! Lack of interesting locations, sorry, not working for me.
A theme park, the legendary fontaine futuristics, a secret hidden prison, an entiiirely flooded and drained building, red-light district, hidden church, slum under the railroad, bathhouse, rah rah rah... IMO, if you thought the game "lacked" interesting locations, maybe you didn't open your eyes wide enough.
Which is odd for me to say because I'm usually criticizing this game so that says something. Haha.
Lutwidge's comment is also mostly confusing me since so much of it seems to apply to the first game as well as the second.. like levels designed as loops. Same as BS1 with certain doors unlocking as the plot un-winded giving you a shortcut right back to the start again... at the bathysphere. Loopdy loop.
Or the train animation abruptly ending at a loading screen... just like the bathysphere or bulkhead travel, really...
I agree that the levels are less interesting on the surface, but GamesRadar brought up a good point that I think puts the new level design into perspective:
"To be honest, none of the sequel’s levels are as brilliantly conceived and perfectly executed as the best in BioShock 1. The entertainment district of the first game, Fort Frolic, is still a seedier, more bizarrely sinful place than Siren Alley, the red-light district of BioShock 2. The beauty and wonder of Arcadia’s indoor forests can’t be matched by the follow-up’s similar resort style in Dionysus Park. And even when you visit autopsy rooms and pacification chambers this time around, they’re nowhere near as bloody or macabre as Dr. Steinman’s Medical Pavilion from the original.
On the other hand, this Rapture feels more real and more complete. Rather than jump from haunted house to haunted house, you’re taken on a tour of the whole society and shown aspects of the citizens’ lives that were, until now, glossed over. You’ll attend Ryan Amusements, a demented take on Disneyland in which monstrous animatronics – including some of Andrew himself – teach the city’s children about the dangers of the surface. You’ll be trapped in Pauper’s Drop, the impoverished slums that weren’t constructed on the wrong side of the tracks, but underneath them. You’ll enter Fontaine Futuristics and discover what happens to Little Sisters after they grow up. Before, you battled with the titans of Rapture. In the sequel, you also experience what life is like for all of their sad, desperate and downtrodden pawns.
Plus, you get to walk underwater and, through means we can’t spoil for you, view Rapture as it must have been before the downfall. Neither represent huge portions of the game… but both are surprisingly beautiful."
They're less interesting at a glance, but as you dig deeper into to the story you realize that these locations have a much deeper significance than any of the locations in the first game and they all really help to move the story along in ways that the levels of Bio 1 were not able to.
Last edited by IllusionOfLife; 07-12-2010 at 01:30 AM.
Yup. Spot on. They were good levels, BUT! They weren't polished enough to fell like Bioshock standards. There were lots of tall ceilings that all over that werent present in BS1. that removed the classic claustrophobia feel from the first game.
Next- some of the textures were out of place and you could tell its a game. some places didnt feel natural, like they existed. They were just slapped on.
The buildings that were seen outside of the windows looked like models that were sitting there not actual buildings. They seemed tiny, while in the first game they were huge. you knew you were part of something bigger.
There wasnt much variety considering each room of each level. in BS1 every room was a completely new sight. In BS2- lots of repetition of furniture and textures.
And again- the polish. I played both games on the PS3 and besides the character models BS1 looks better. And both have 5gig installs. That is almost unacceptable in 2010 for good PS3 games to have installs. just look at kz2, gow3 and U2.
I blame the multiplayer. this game doesnt need one, and it certainly took its toll on the game. money were spent on MP instead of polishing the game.
I second this.
Originally Posted by temporaryplaceholder
Anyone who knows me knows my opinion changes like the wind but when I actually bother to think before posting then it’s clear that bioshock 2 did actually have allot of interesting locations and each one was unique. Perhaps more so than in the first had. Even Sirens ally and paupers drop. Allot of people seem to think these levels had no character and where to similar but to me they character in the buckets loads and really aside from them both being 'poor' areas they aren’t all that similar.
I still think allot of the problem is that having played the first game you don't get the same 'wow' feeling from rapture because it’s no longer new to you. People come into it with very high expectations and are so busy comparing it to the first that they miss the unique things that are there. Had bioshock 2 been released first and wonder what people would think of bioshock 1.
Last edited by ManicSheep; 07-12-2010 at 03:34 AM.
I think B2 has some incredibly interesting locations! Fontaine Futeristics is one of my favorites levels from either game, and its been a while since i was creeped out (and intrigued) like i was in Dionysis Park.
The levels in the first game were extremely interesting (Arcadia probably being my favorite), but i wouldnt say the second games levels were less interesting, although it felt at times that they were missing something.
See, the problem I had with Bioshock 2 levels were that they never tried to mesmerize you. In Bioshock 1, each level seemed to try to outdo the previous level. An because of that, things constantly stayed fresh, and unique.
Originally Posted by Mlle_Blanche
But with B2 you constantly go to the same run down area, or the same labatory level. Why not a level that places you in a 50's esqe neighborhood, with tipped over trollies, and various stores. Then as you continue foward you can see a giant football stadium. At least if would change things up...
This has been discussed to death. BioShock 2 never tried to memorize you, or outdo (quite an impossible task) its predecessor. Instead it strove for something entirely different, whether it's the locations, the characters or the story. Don't play BioShock 2 when you really mean to play BioShock
Originally Posted by American McGee
That's probably what i was felt when i said they were missing something..
Originally Posted by American McGee
Although a few B2 levels mesmerized me
That's a very interesting observation...
Originally Posted by IllusionOfLife
But I think it's more important to see places in Rapture that the players want to see, places that are interesting, and places that keep the player engaged. Later down the line, those locations could be fitted so the story would make sense. That's what Bioshock 1 did and that's part of the reason Bioshock is so memorable. Locations in Bioshock 2 were not visually stimulating because they just weren't interesting places to begin with. Sure the locations make more sense in terms of story, but it makes the game quite dull. Choosing boring residential areas is not very creative. Adonis Resort, Pauper's Drop, and Siren Alley were all residential areas. 1/3 of the game was going through apartments and stores. They could've come up with something a little more...spectacular. I mean they have an entire city to play with.
Ok, youre right about bathyspheres, I just felt different in BS1, I can't quite explain why. There's no way near the same amount of looping in BS1 as there is in 2, in 2 almost every single level begins and ends in the same place. Take, for example, in BS1 near the beginning when you get trapped in the small room by the metal grilles and the projection of our beloved Andrew pops up, asking if you're from the KGB wolf etc... splicers start trying to smash through the glass and scream bloody murder at you whilst you sprint for the door and travel through to the next level. Feels like you've escaped, no? Give me an example of that in BS2.
Originally Posted by temporaryplaceholder
Reflecting upon my earlier post, I didn't say that I actually do love the levels and the ideas for them are awesome, every one feels authentic. I just don't think they were executed very well, it all feels a bit hurried. What they do have is really great, just feels like it could be better.
I think what I was expecting was (as has been discussed) less of a tour of the giants of raptures homes and workplaces etc (hepastus for example) and more of a feel for how the REST of rapture lives. Ok, there's been a civil war and everything's gone tits up, but I fail to believe that everywhere in rapture is a slum, a lab or an amusement centre.
Another thing which has also confused me in both games is this: Surely not EVERYONE in rapture is a splicer? Now please please don't start shouting TENENBAUM, FONTAINE, SINCLAIR etc., I know they're about, but you can't help but feel as if they're all the big players in the city, the greatest scientist, corporate tycoons and the like. Where are the average Joe's?
I have an example of what could have been great in BS1: Atlas was a mask for Fontaine but people didn't know that, they thought he was a revolutionary. Why didn't you ever find like maybe a safehouse with sympathisers who weren't spliced out of their minds who could help you? I know you find Atlas's headquaters in (I think) the home for the poor, but it's only inhabitants are Ryan's splicers who try and kill you. Not everyone would have been recruited to Ryan, and they're so messed up in the head that why do they even listen to him and take orders anyway?
The more I think about it, despite them being (IMO) 2 of the greatest games ever to grace the console/pc platform, there are some gaping holes, and for me, they're more obvious in BS2
Last edited by O. O. Lutwidge; 07-12-2010 at 06:59 AM.
The Atlantic Express, in the control booth. The lights go dark, and the doors lock. The monitors flicker to life, one by one. It is Sofia Lamb.
Originally Posted by O. O. Lutwidge
"I know you. That symbol on your hand marks you a dead man. Ten years, Subject Delta, since I watched you put a gun to your head — and pull the trigger. But take heart: Out of your pain, paradise is born. I don't know how you survived, but your suffering is over now. These men will ease your burden. Please understand that like all I have done, this… is an act of love."
Splicers rush into the room, shattering the windows with a hail of bullets, and begin to toss molotov's towards you. You're on the cusp of death, when suddenly, the floor beneath you collapses and you fall to your safety. For the time being you're safe, and a new path is open to you.
"Now you know of the enemy we share: Sofia Lamb. The camera in your helmet allows me to watch through your eyes — and help you to fight her."
Aye, but that's during a level, it's not a progression (or a better would be transition) between two different levels. And now I have the horrible feeling I'm wrong haha. Sorry, I haven't played SP in a while, I got all the trophies and while back and have been labouring through MP with a half dead PS3. Also, sorry for the shortness of reply, I'm using my phone atm.
I do believe the levels in Bioshock 1 were more interesting, because in my opinion they were all unique to themselves. We have an entertainment district for people arriving to the city, the hospital, a fishery, an underwater park/forest, a mall, the control area, one of the wealthy upper class districts, followed by a lower class neighbourhood as a way to show the extreme differences; a lab and a museum.
All were unique, all had special things about them. Now, that's not to say Bioshock 2 didn't have that - far from it, but I thought the levels in Bioshock 1 were just far more interesting. Adonis was alright, but short. The Atlantic Express was boring IMO, and I was disappointed by Ryan Amusements. I was expecting a larger park with a few rides. Not an educational roller coaster (though I did find it entertaining) , a small museum and a restaurant. Pauper's Drop is where it got interesting for me, as we saw the working class apartments as well as their shopping and entertainment area. Much better than Apollo Square. I also liked Siren's Alley though the area was quite small.
Dionysus Park I'm on the fence with. I kind of wish they kept their original idea, with going through a normal door to be met with a huge out of control forest with large trees. I also would have loved being able to walk through Fort Frolic again. Fontaine Futuristics never really interested me, but Persephone was a good level, especially the jail/gulag part.
Just my two cents.
I loved the Bioshock 2 levels.
yeah, i second that.
Originally Posted by Adam Addict L
each level had its own story, just like in the first game.
Yes yes yes, far far less interesting.
Yes. A million times yes.
i loved the gameplay but the storyline and setting of the levels were abit on the meh side
Originally Posted by AndreyRyan
in bio1 when you look out the window the city looks sooo believable. ads, lots of buildings, cables, and the most important thing- perspective.
even if you move a little a large part of the building gets covered by the wall and its realistic. they look massive!
in bio2 the outside world barely shows you're in a city and no matter how you move you still see the same amount of a building, making them look like hobby models that are in larger scale.
this was huge with me. the city in bio2 out the windows looks 5 times worse.
Look at Ryan Amusments alone! The outside view of the near-by skyscrapers is magnificant, like in the main area whne you enter the park...and in the Gift Shop area. They even covered details that you didnt see in Bio 1, like buildings with billboards on their roofs, something you do see in old cities like Cincinnati or Cleavland.
Not to mention the fabulous veiw in some of the "outside sequences". Like the first time outside, when you get the veiw of Rapture and the old 50's billboard to the right with the animations of people on it that says "Welcome - your beautiful city". I mean the Bio 2 team did a wonderful job covering the "outside look" I thought.
Last edited by Blue Lightning; 07-20-2010 at 07:52 PM.
i think the only moment in Bio2 when you really go "wow" is when you see rapture the first time u go outside. once the theme tune kicks inn...and you see the buildings. tht is the only part..
another mention about looking outside.. i think the colour of the water makes a difference also.. before it was dark green . and changed to blue, and all you seen was the same model skyscrapers.
also...the lack of connecting tubes this time around. i think there was only 2 times u had to go through them...once in paupers drop..and it sucked.
overall......Bioshock 1 is still king!
yes there are 1-2 places where theres still a nice view, but 80% of the time the buildings look like huge hobby models. just play bio1 again and notice how big portions of them get covered even when you move slightly away from the window meaning much more realisitc perspective. its like IRL- when i move like a foot to one side in my home the building next door gets a big chunk of it covered.
Originally Posted by Blue Lightning
I thought the outside sequences were too colorful, too...fabulous for a Bioshock game.
Originally Posted by Blue Lightning
I wanted the outdoor areas to be more open, and I wanted the indoor areas to be more linear.
Originally Posted by Mr.Plum
i can't believe that the got rid of the idea of going through Fort Frolic to get to Dionsus Park
After reading all this, I have to say I do quite agree :P
Bioshock 2 seemed to be very, well, linear, as was said. The levels were all the same, just a different layout.
Not to mention the only scare I can recall was in Siren Alley, and even then there were many ways you could all too easily avoid it and you wouldn't even know.
If they do make a Bioshock 3, they need to not look over what they did wrong in Bioshock 2, but what they did right in Bioshock 1 ~wisdomwhoo~
BioShock 2 is a different game from BioShock and that's why I hate it I'm gonna post on the 2K forums dear 2K forums why is BioShock 2 different from BioShock sincerely disgruntled fan
The maps in Bioshock 2 are designed EXACTLY the same as Bioshock 1. The maps are partially open ended...meaning "semi non linear"...meaning there are many parts of each map where a player can choose 1 of 2 ways to get somewhere and backtrack, w/ some "dead end routes" that the player can choose to explore or not. That is just like Bioshock 1. I first saw that kind of mapping in Duke Nukem 3D.
Originally Posted by Zest
Last edited by Blue Lightning; 07-23-2010 at 09:06 PM.
Here's one rationale:
Originally Posted by Blade_Runner
Sander Cohen would have HAD to be displaced in FF, since the devs cannot know if the player killed him or not. So, right there, the beating, crazy heart of Fort Frolic is removed.
I don't mind the levels in BS2, not at all, I liked 'em, but the inability to backtrack between levels bugged me.
Last edited by janissary12; 07-24-2010 at 02:45 AM.
Personally I think that the levels in Bioshock 2 were pretty interesting just as good as the first one if not a bit better. With the backtracking well they made the story really so you couldn't with Siren Alley you can't go back there because you flooded the area by killing Father Whales and Lamb going crazy and doing all of that stuff, and on the way to Pauper's Drop from Ryan Amusements your train got nailed with a RPG and you got shot from it so really you can't go back becasue the train was destroyed and Sinclair had to go hide out some where and help you from afar, and with Persephone you couldn't really go back to it since it was the last level and what happened there since it went bye bye. Then with Fontaine Futuristics nothing really happened there so I guess it could have been possible to go back there. But over all the way the story was you couldn't go back to the places you were at, at all because you destroeyd them or in the case of the first 2 levels the Big Sister just screwed up the area and you had to get out. But thats at least what I think over all some of the areas were really interesting like Dionasyus Park because since it was flooded everything was all rusty and not really looking like it should have and it was pretty creative and cool looking like Fort Frolic honestly I loved that place .
Not to mention that Delta is slowly dying the longer he's apart from Eleanor, taking his time wandering around locations he's already been to wouldn't be the most intelligent move for that character.
Originally Posted by Reborn in the Ocean
Last edited by IllusionOfLife; 07-24-2010 at 08:16 AM.
Yeah it wouldn't really be the smart idea to let him back track since he is dying completely forgot about that part of the story thanks Illusion , but yeah if you dying do you really want to go back and look around old places or do you want to keep on trucking and get to where you need to go so you can live! I would chose the second one but that's just me.
Originally Posted by IllusionOfLife
Oh THAT'S what was missing! A classic Crezth snark.
Originally Posted by Crezth
I like that article quote Illusion posted. This game has time and time again been proven itself to be more of a game for analysis, discussion, etc (not to say that the first game was NOT, of course!).
That same mindset reflects with the level designs and locations. They are not as grand, or spooky, or exotic - but there's more color on the page than there is white now, if you will.