A Complete Ongoing Guide to Abusing the AI

[dukeblue1987]

I’m hoping that many forum members can contribute to this post. I want it to include every bit of information about how to abuse the AI, specifically in H2H. Most of this information is already on the forums, but I believe it is incomplete and obviously not organized. This should help everybody with walk-ins, taking defended caps, getting money from the AI, and generally playing better. Here are some ideas of what I want to include:

General information
Warrior production years for each civ.
Ease to threaten/what is needed to threaten each civ.
Tendencies of each civ.

General information

In H2H games there will be 3 AI civs, or 1.5 AI civs per human player. It can be assumed that at least 1 AI civ will be taken by a human player early, and it is not uncommon that all 3 AI civs have been taken by humans before 1500 BC. You may be at peace or at war with the AI.

In FFA games there will be 1 AI civ, or .25 AI civs per human player. It is likely that the AI civ will be taken by a human player early.

The standard warrior production for the AI is to build a warrior at the end of 3500 and the end of 3000. They will bring their first warrior back to their cap if they see you. Therefore, when attempting a walk-in, you should plan to take their cap at 3500, or wait until 3300 to officially make contact with the civ. Some civs follow different rules such as the Greeks, Chinese, Aztecs, etc.

An AI civ will be far less advanced if nobody makes contact with it. For example, if I meet Russia in 3400, it might have archers by 2500. If no other civ meets Russia until 2500, it will probably not have archers.

AI units will not take caravans or empty cities if you have not yet declared war upon them. Zulu warriors will take an empty city ONLY if you have not yet encountered them in the diplomacy screen.

You can threaten at AI civs for 25g and 10 turns of peace easily in the first 20 turns. Even if the AI has no gold, it will magically summon 25 gold if it feels threatened. If the AI has no units in its cap, you can threaten at any time. If they have a unit, it depends on the civ you are threatening. Usually a few warriors or horsemen units will suffice. To threaten, you simply declare war on the AI TWICE in a row. If it doesn’t work after two tries, you need more units. You can try and threaten an AI at any time in the game. It will often work every 10 turns.

You can sell the AI tech. You can also buy tech. If you are selling them technologies, they can’t rush as many units in their cap. Many times it is useful to pay the AI 25 or 30 gold to get bronze working in a pinch. Often times you can sell them back a different technology and get some of your gold back.

The AI will build units when it is at war with a human player. When attacking an AI, it is wise to ask the AI for peace between turns. This way they will not build as many units. When you know a human is attacking or might attack an AI, it is wise to declare war on the AI. This can slow down the other human because they will have to kill more units. This is especially useful for a civ that is often passive at the start such as the Romans or English. It also seems easier to threaten an AI that is under attack by another civ. However, you are trading 25g for your opponent to take the cap quicker.

You should always ask the AI about world events. They will introduce you to other AI civs, give you an idea of where the human player is (if they have met him yet), and tell you other useful information.

If you sell the AI republic, they will often build settlers and defend their new cities with only a warrior or archer. In other words, they will build cities for you.

An AI civ that starts on a small island will build a warrior and a galley I believe. Overall, they don’t do much and you can probably take it pretty late if you can get a horse army and galley to it.

You can easily steal settled GP from the AI. America, France, and the English get their GP quickly. The first English GP is often a GL. Other civs will get their first GP around 0.


Americans
Depends on GP. I think the use the GH, GE, and GA immediately. They can have archer units faster than most other civs.

Arabs
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000.

Aztecs

The Aztecs use their gold to rush a warrior early. They will get bronze working and an archer faster than any other civ.

China
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. They are the only civ that will consistently build archer armies without a player declaring war on them.

Egypt
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. If you sell them techs until they reach medieval you can block a human player from getting the irrigation bonus.

England
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. They are average to threaten until they get longbow archers. Longbows defend at 7.5 and have a good chance to beat a horsearmy at 9 vs 7.5. Be careful about accepting peace against when attacking. If there borders expand, your units will be sent back to your nearest city.

France
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. They are average to threaten. Be careful about accepting peace against when attacking. If there borders expand, your units will be sent back to your nearest city.

Germany
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. They are somewhat harder to threaten than average.

Greece
Pikeman at 3200. Pikemen units defend at 7.5 and have a good chance at beating a horsearmy at 9 vs 7.5. The Greeks don't explore and always have a lot of barb huts close by. They are hard to threaten once they get a pikemen unit in their city.

India
Usually the standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. However, if they get oak or rubber as their resource the warriors are at 3600 and 3300.

Japan
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. They are average to threaten.
The Japanese like to build legions and will counter attack your units later on. They are one of the easiest civs to take late in the game. You can often get Kyoto at pop 4 or 5. Kyoto always has 4 water tiles.

Mongols
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000.
The Mongols are arguably the easiest civ to take. It is unlikely they will have any gold to rush additional warriors in their cities. Also, any barbs they take will be defended by a defense 2 warrior. If the barb city has food, they will grow it. They are very easy to threaten.

Rome
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. They are easy to take and get archers slow. Often times they will build 2nd cities. They are average to threaten.

Russia
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. They are average to threaten.

Span
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. They can pick up extra gold if they name a tile. They are average to threaten.

Zulu
Standard warrior at the end of 3500 and 3000. They tend to get gold earlier than other AI civs due to Impi warriors. They are average to threaten.


Some stuff I missed

Warrior production for America based on GP.
A lot of other stuff

Please add anything you feel appropriate. I will try to update as responses come in.

[dukeblue1987]

Reserved for additional information.

[dukeblue1987]

Reserved for additional information 2.

[TyShine]

I thought about doing this, but Ill add information periodically.

China seems to be the only civ who consistently builds archer armies.

When going for walkins you can often have 10 turns before the AI has a warrior in their capitol. If they havent seen anyone they are likely exploring and if you settle on a hill or count how many turns they need to get back you can get into their cap. Adar is helpful here.

When I horserush, or look for a walk in, the Americans and Aztecs are my least favorite choices. They will have archers quickly, although not usually archer armies, and will offer no good tech bonuses. Ill often pass over these civs to attack another, especially since they will have a fortified archer(5) the fastest and that is a huge risk when using a non-vet horse army. Later France and England are huge pains to attack as well.

Rome is one of the easiest to take, along with Japan.

It may sound pointless, but when given extra time Ive asked one ai about another. Usually its nothing, but sometimes they will give important information like they are building settlers which equals two very easy cities(they will walk out).

If you are having a slow start, dont work on gold, work on units. Then you can threaten the AI much later, and sometimes get better prizes. When you are done sell the units.

Ive used Egypt and other civs to block bonuses. I get a few cheap techs to and sell them for 5 gold if Im not going for irrigation. I will also try and get India to religion to take it from them.

[TyShine]

I would say its much better than 50-50 for a single pikeman v ha(better for HA). I will take that chance all the time, and if it looks bad Ill retreat. England is pretty easy to take early, but once there culture is expanded its tough.

France and England(although you would rather just take them) make for great blockades, depends on map. If Im not taking these civs over I will get them BW and declare war until they get an archer army. Then their culture will expand all over the map, and if they are between my opponent and me I will know if he is coming my way.

[MorteEterna]

Some stuff I missed
Warrior production for China.
Warrior production for Egypt with HGB/Colossus
Warrior production for America based on GP.
Warrior production for India depending on resource (I know for oak/rubber it is faster)
Greeks 2nd pikeman or warrior year.
If the AI will take spy’s/GP early.
A lot of other stuff


China works on 2 grasslands and one tree, so they get the warrior normally

Same for Egypt, sometimes they work on deserts, but they'll have their units at 3500 and 3000

Americans, hard to say what they do

Indians get their warrior in 4 turns, as they work on balanced, then, they will get another in 3 turns (3600 and 3300 BC)

Greeks after their first pikemen, grow their capital or build another pikemen, depending on what they need. But they usually grow their capital, and if needed, build other pikemen.

AI takes spies and even declare war if they see you got some undefended units, like settlers or GP. If you can threaten them, they will probably not attack you. If you can't threaten them, they will probably attack.

Japan is the easiest civ to take. Normally they get two units, or three:

One warrior, then a legion. In about 20-30 turns you can take them with no problems, and you could get a 5 pop city with at least 4 water tiles (they always have 4 water tiles)

[TyShine]

Greeks are harder to threaten because they dont explore very much. However, there are always villages and tiles to name around around Greece. Plus they usually just grow.

[Gigiwoo]

Good post. I like where this is going and hope others can add to it. I knew much of it, but even still, it was helpful to see it all in one place. It gave me some new ideas for my play.

Gigiwoo.

[FF-GTR]

I seem to sometimes get 50 gold instead of 25 when threatening aztec or zulu early. Not sure why on zulu, on aztec is likely due to them having more gold early so they are willing to spend more on threaten. I could be wrong here in my assumption the amount offered is based on how much they have banked.

Also, I try to be careful selling valuable techs that I have well before others, such as religion as arab. There is the danger that if you sell a tech, and another other human takes the AI city, they will get for free.

However if you are about to try to take the last AI city, sell them any tech you can, to reduce their gold to rush defense (if you fail on first try). This might make you more money too (not sure if you would get it anyway by taking the city).

As greeks, it is useful to go to anarchy for one turn early in order to threaten. Preferably very early while athens is still at 2 pop, this way you gain 25 gold for losing 4 apples (assuming you are growing athens).

I have been in FFA where an AI (usually via late quit of 3rd or 4th human, so they are stronger than normal AI) is at war with me, and I want peace. (For instance, I am all out attacking another human, don't want to worry they will meanwhile attack my cities). Sometimes they will demand a good tech that I do not want to give them due to danger of another human getting it via city conquering. You can try to offer them the crappier alternative tech, and they might reject this. However, you can try over and over again, and sometimes it will use a different crappy 2nd tech, and the AI will accept. This is unlike threatening, where the 3rd and 4th tries are always the same outcome as the 2nd. Sorry if that is not explained well, I hope it makes sense.

Can anyone explain the optimal order to sell techs to get the most gold? For instance, should you sell more expensive techs, then cheaper techs, to squeeze out the most profit? I think this is the way to do it, since they offer less $ as you sell more techs.

[Salmeen10]

Early in the game ask the AI to introduce you to another AI so you can see their cap and maybe threaten them. This thing have saved from losses a few times.

[BigStank]

In FFA you can contact the AI that takes over for a quit player on the on that turn provided the person settled their cap before quitting. This often happens in the opening turns and one can threaten an ai with no units even when the threatening player has no units. Or just make contact with them and make them your puppet.

[MorteEterna]

I seem to sometimes get 50 gold instead of 25 when threatening aztec or zulu early. Not sure why on zulu, on aztec is likely due to them having more gold early so they are willing to spend more on threaten. I could be wrong here in my assumption the amount offered is based on how much they have banked.

Yes, that's because they got some gold early on

Also, I try to be careful selling valuable techs that I have well before others, such as religion as arab. There is the danger that if you sell a tech, and another other human takes the AI city, they will get for free.

However if you are about to try to take the last AI city, sell them any tech you can, to reduce their gold to rush defense (if you fail on first try). This might make you more money too (not sure if you would get it anyway by taking the city).

It's been told already, however, it's better to sell them tech before killing them, because you won't get all the gold they got.

As greeks, it is useful to go to anarchy for one turn early in order to threaten. Preferably very early while athens is still at 2 pop, this way you gain 25 gold for losing 4 apples (assuming you are growing athens).

I have been in FFA where an AI (usually via late quit of 3rd or 4th human, so they are stronger than normal AI) is at war with me, and I want peace. (For instance, I am all out attacking another human, don't want to worry they will meanwhile attack my cities). Sometimes they will demand a good tech that I do not want to give them due to danger of another human getting it via city conquering. You can try to offer them the crappier alternative tech, and they might reject this. However, you can try over and over again, and sometimes it will use a different crappy 2nd tech, and the AI will accept. This is unlike threatening, where the 3rd and 4th tries are always the same outcome as the 2nd. Sorry if that is not explained well, I hope it makes sense.

Can anyone explain the optimal order to sell techs to get the most gold? For instance, should you sell more expensive techs, then cheaper techs, to squeeze out the most profit? I think this is the way to do it, since they offer less $ as you sell more techs.

For the last question, yes, sell the expensive ones first. And if you got a message like "the AI got seven cities", and you are in a H2H or FFA, then it should be a "sell tech race", so it's even better to sell them the expensive techs first (if there are not too many. If that happens, choose the average ones)

[MadDjinn]

One of the more fun ones:

sell the AI Code of Laws and they will drop everything to start expanding.

if you declare war on an AI, they will spam warriors at you (not always forming armies) instead of teching. (do this before they hit legions) This effectively lets you upgrade constantly.

[Hellogoodbye123]

china doesnt even go out to explore, theres always like huts and barbs in its little radius, until they get legions.

no civ has a spy in there city, until you give them the tech, china always builds a spy, i usually give writing to ais i cant reach so easily, to prevent enemy from stealing that

and yes ai takes both spies and great ppl, never protect a spy with a great person, they do voodoo magic and make the great person dissapear and they take the spy.. !!!

almost all civs have a settle gp by 0ad

greeks are peaceful all game long

if an ai doesnt want peace ask the folloing turn, it will probably say yes

if the ai feels threaten with there empty captal and have money they "WILL" rush one.. even if its like 3200bc or something.. i trapped the roman warrior so he couldn go gack to his capital after it stole my barb, at 3300bc.. and he rushed warrior 3200bc..lol

[Think_Before_You_Speak]

never protect a spy with a great person, they do voodoo magic and make the great person dissapear and they take the spy.. !!!

Well in my experience of playing GOTW, I have found the gp is the only neutral unit that can effectively defend a spy from being captured. I have seen this in two case, in one cases the ai was moving a horse around the gp and spy but was not attacking/capturing my spy.

Unless I got very lucky in both cases and the ai just mysteriously decided not to bother attempting to capture my spy which I consider unlikely.

[TyShine]

if the ai feels threaten with there empty captal and have money they "WILL" rush one.. even if its like 3200bc or something.. i trapped the roman warrior so he couldn go gack to his capital after it stole my barb, at 3300bc.. and he rushed warrior 3200bc..lol

Only if they have money. Ive walked many warriors to empty capitols between 4000-3000 bc.

[Hellogoodbye123]

Well in my experience of playing GOTW, I have found the gp is the only neutral unit that can effectively defend a spy from being captured. I have seen this in two case, in one cases the ai was moving a horse around the gp and spy but was not attacking/capturing my spy.

Unless I got very lucky in both cases and the ai just mysteriously decided not to bother attempting to capture my spy which I consider unlikely.

yea you mentioned it in your "Return of Rawjos" thread.. so i decided to do it.. i saw american ai with settled builder, as france i build a long road, suddenly i see a greek ai horsemen.. and i go.. "OH NO!" that spy wasnt cheap btw it was modern era..

so i remeber what you told us, i had a spare great artist.. and i ok im safe.. next turn comes, and i have the cursor on it, and i see everything!!! it dissapears, and i get the message, "The greeks have taken your spy" ..then i get a little dissapointed..

this was an online game with 2 other players.. not gotw, which is sp, so maybe theres a difference, like when you gte march on mp, you get to attack again same turn, but if you get blitz you have to wait till next turn, and vice versa on sp..

[Hellogoodbye123]

Only if they have money. Ive walked many warriors to empty capitols between 4000-3000 bc.

yep, only if they have money, real money..lol, in this instance i thinki the barb must of gave them some gold, because i saw no galley, no caravan, no spy, no extra tech.. etc..

[Think_Before_You_Speak]

this was an online game with 2 other players.. not gotw, which is sp, so maybe theres a difference, like when you gte march on mp, you get to attack again same turn, but if you get blitz you have to wait till next turn, and vice versa on sp..

Hmm, perhaps you are right, as I haven't tested it in multiplayer, in which case that is real lousy, as that means there is seemingly no way of protecting the spy in multiplayer.

Anyhow the opportunity to use such a tactic is rare in multiplayer, still surprising that it doesn't work though.

[Hellogoodbye123]

Hmm, perhaps you are right, as I haven't tested it in multiplayer, in which case that is real lousy, as that means there is seemingly no way of protecting the spy in multiplayer.

Anyhow the opportunity to use such a tactic is rare in multiplayer, still surprising that it doesn't work though.

lost 2 great ppl that day.. shame shame..

jk i still went for the builder.. rush oxford and got bombers heheh, this time though, i had a pikemen there.. but my city was empty

[dukeblue1987]

Updated. Keep the info coming in guys.

[MadDjinn]

"An AI civ that starts on a small island will build a warrior and a galley I believe. Overall, they don’t do much and you can probably take it pretty late if you can get a horse army and galley to it."

This one isn't so true...

I've had plenty of games where I get to an AI on an island early and they've got an archer army up. Likely it was due to other AI's getting taken over already.

I've also seen an indian AI start on an island and have 2 cities there + 3-4 legion armies on the island + archer armies. nothing blows a 3 elite horse army attack like getting ripped by fundy legions when you land...

but yeah, they don't usually go anywhere or leave their island until very very late in the game. Even the stupid Spanish AI will continue building galleons and leave them parked rather than using them.

[dukeblue1987]

"An AI civ that starts on a small island will build a warrior and a galley I believe. Overall, they don’t do much and you can probably take it pretty late if you can get a horse army and galley to it."

This one isn't so true...

I've had plenty of games where I get to an AI on an island early and they've got an archer army up. Likely it was due to other AI's getting taken over already.

I've also seen an indian AI start on an island and have 2 cities there + 3-4 legion armies on the island + archer armies. nothing blows a 3 elite horse army attack like getting ripped by fundy legions when you land...

but yeah, they don't usually go anywhere or leave their island until very very late in the game. Even the stupid Spanish AI will continue building galleons and leave them parked rather than using them.

Hmm. I think we need more info on this one. It might depend on what civ it is.

[MadDjinn]

Hmm. I think we need more info on this one. It might depend on what civ it is.

I think it's more related to what happens to the other AIs. if you find the AI on the island before taking a mainland one, then you will likely find no archers.

It's the same for mainland AIs. If no one finds them before 2500BC, they'll just keep going to iron working without getting archers.

[TyShine]

I just played a game were the AI never built a warrior. It was the Arabs, and I saw their cap early. For one turn they were pop 1, but they didn't build a settler. However, I explored everywhere around them and around 2500 or even later I took their empty cap with a horse army. I am sure it was just one of these weird things like starting with CB as the Romans.

[Hellogoodbye123]

I just played a game were the AI never built a warrior. It was the Arabs, and I saw their cap early. For one turn they were pop 1, but they didn't build a settler. However, I explored everywhere around them and around 2500 or even later I took their empty cap with a horse army. I am sure it was just one of these weird things like starting with CB as the Romans.

no i experienced the same thing, except i was in single player, this week, i was russia, walked all over at 2500bc ish as well i found arab capital empty, i didnt want to go for it, because they would start building wariors.. then i noticed nothing was built, so i went close, and took it ...

i think we discovered the arab weakest, which would suck against zulu/aztec rushers

[dukeblue1987]

I also had an unusual experience yesterday... I attacked the AI Indians (Oak) 1.5 to 1 and lost which prevented me from walking in. I eventually threatened for 25g. I researched HBR while I took another AI cap with a vet warrior army from a hill. I sold the Indians HBR.

My map didn't have much gold and I got a horse army out pretty late. Here is where it got weird. The indians had built a settler and settled another city already. It was still way too early for them to be building settlers. Then when I attacked their cap, I killed a warrior. The Indians then woudn't accept peace and counter attacked with a single horsemen unit. When I attacked again, I killed another horsemen unit. I took the cap and a nice 2nd city which was nice.

I've never seen the AI build multiple horsemen units and a settler before building an archer. I guess it was a combination of Indians/oak/selling HBR/threatening.

Edit

I also forgot to mention that the Indians got SoC for a Artist and a Scientist which they settled.

[TyShine]

I also had an unusual experience yesterday... I attacked the AI Indians (Oak) 1.5 to 1 and lost which prevented me from walking in. I eventually threatened for 25g. I researched HBR while I took another AI cap with a vet warrior army from a hill. I sold the Indians HBR.

My map didn't have much gold and I got a horse army out pretty late. Here is where it got weird. The indians had built a settler and settled another city already. It was still way too early for them to be building settlers. Then when I attacked their cap, I killed a warrior. The Indians then woudn't accept peace and counter attacked with a single horsemen unit. When I attacked again, I killed another horsemen unit. I took the cap and a nice 2nd city which was nice.

I've never seen the AI build multiple horsemen units and a settler before building an archer. I guess it was a combination of Indians/oak/selling HBR/threatening.

Edit

I also forgot to mention that the Indians got SoC for a Artist and a Scientist which they settled.

Actually Ive seen this. The Indians with Oak(maybe rubber) will build settlers and walk out very early. I dont know if its every time, but Ive seen it more than once.

[ScottieX]

found somthign cool today. I met an AI (germans) settled on a hill they had just built an army(3500 warrior). i attacked and they beat my unit down to 1 warrior then next turn they walked out - and i walked in.
lovely...
they were on the coast and the warrior walked out NW and i was SW.
maybe they didnt take my little warrior seriously

if we figure this one out it could be quite a game changer.
I have a lot mroe tricks but most that the old pros would not know are not generally usable outside of gotw...

[dukeblue1987]

found somthign cool today. I met an AI (germans) settled on a hill they had just built an army(3500 warrior). i attacked and they beat my unit down to 1 warrior then next turn they walked out - and i walked in.
lovely...
they were on the coast and the warrior walked out NW and i was SW.
maybe they didnt take my little warrior seriously

if we figure this one out it could be quite a game changer.
I have a lot mroe tricks but most that the old pros would not know are not generally usable outside of gotw...

I wonder if this is repeatable with multiple civs.... would make waiting for 3300 to initiate contact irrelevant.

[ScottieX]

I wonder if this is repeatable with multiple civs.... would make waiting for 3300 to initiate contact irrelevant.

my guess is that maybe it is related to the .33 attack of the warrior and the 2 def of hte other warrior (ger + hill). since i ver the warrior it probably is same for other civs but i might need the hill because it doesnt seem to be true if there isnt a hill (unless the nature of hte terrain also effected it.

I also built a second warrior that turn that might also ahve effected it.

[FF-GTR]

my guess is that maybe it is related to the .33 attack of the warrior and the 2 def of hte other warrior (ger + hill). since i ver the warrior it probably is same for other civs but i might need the hill because it doesnt seem to be true if there isnt a hill (unless the nature of hte terrain also effected it.

I also built a second warrior that turn that might also ahve effected it.

I had the Russian AI walk away yesterday even though my warrior was adjacent. No wounds or previous battles.

I think I made contact in 3400 (it was a peninsula, he walked into me nowhere else to go), he walked back into cap, I moved adjacent to cap, he left cap, I took cap. Weird.

[ScottieX]

ok - then there may be somthign else going on - but knowing how the game works it is almost certainly predictable - just need to figure out what the formula is.

[FF-GTR]

ok - then there may be somthign else going on - but knowing how the game works it is almost certainly predictable - just need to figure out what the formula is.

Agreed, unless behavior is somehow related to seed in certain cases, or deterministic but in a way that humans can't really figure out on the fly. I doubt this though.

EDIT Similarly, I have also had AI ignore their own opportunity to walk in on me. It might have to do with if you've ever declared war on them.

[dukeblue1987]

Agreed, unless behavior is somehow related to seed in certain cases, or deterministic but in a way that humans can't really figure out on the fly. I doubt this though.

EDIT Similarly, I have also had AI ignore their own opportunity to walk in on me. It might have to do with if you've ever declared war on them.

The AI will never walk in or even steal your initial settlers in the early game as long as you're at peace.

The Zulu "can" but only in rare instances where they are two tiles away and get you before you make contact with them.

[FF-GTR]

The AI will never [...] even steal your initial settlers in the early game as long as you're at peace

Can you even be officially at peace with your initial settler? I know you can't contact a civ that hasn't founded it's first city yet. Would seem like a 2 move zulu on your cap, other AI could take your settler since they could hit it before hitting diplomacy.

I know that about city founding since if someone quits in 4000 bc without settling, you can't make contact for threatening or later round tech selling, but if they have settled before quitting you can (I think).

[dukeblue1987]

Can you even be officially at peace with your initial settler? I know you can't contact a civ that hasn't founded it's first city yet. Would seem like a 2 move zulu on your cap, other AI could take your settler since they could hit it before hitting diplomacy.

I know that about city founding since if someone quits in 4000 bc without settling, you can't make contact for threatening or later round tech selling, but if they have settled before quitting you can (I think).

I'll rephrase. As long as you are not at war, the AI won't walk into you city or take your settler. Probably until around 2000 is my guess.

[Hellogoodbye123]

ok - then there may be somthign else going on - but knowing how the game works it is almost certainly predictable - just need to figure out what the formula is.

to the testing chat!!!!!!!!

[FF-GTR]

Anyone know if the Greeks make pike armies pretty much the same way others make archer armies (when at war). Do does the higher hammer cost slow them down enough that you can attack and take your time and not have to worry too much about them armying up?

With other civs you have the option of warring, letting them send units and then you make your HAs vet or elite and kill their archer armies. However for Greeks I can see how that would backfire if they army up their pikes while you are trying to become elite.

[TyShine]

An easy way to see how the AI acts is to start a teams player match and watch them. I saw the Aztecs rush a warrior on turn one, explore for a bit, and walk back and forth a few times. It was pretty funny.