Sounds like it's pretty rare... I'll have to keep that in mind.
Sounds like it's pretty rare... I'll have to keep that in mind.
The AI will take empty cities or random settlers after a certain date I believe. I've never seen one take an early empty cap or initial settler.
It's unclear where the idea that the AI will never take empty cities unless you are already at war originated from. The Zulu in particular are total warmongers. If they see an empty city or settler, they will take it. I pretty much hate the Zulu AI for this reason. I'm not sure all the variables involved but it seems to be a mix of date, your own unit count, etc....
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
I have this idea that the +1 movement makes it easier for them to return the warrior to their cap so they're willing to stray further away, I don't see anything else that would affect the behavior except indirect consequences of their bonuses like extra gold/warriors.
Ive lost my cap very early without ever making contact with the Zulu. The guy who won started talking trash over the mic, but I hadn't even see a Zulu unit at that point.Originally Posted by Pedal2Metal
The Zulu will take you city randomly if you don't make contact. It seems the programming calls for total movement before diplomacy. So normally, a civ will walk next to you, then initiate diplomacy. If you're at peace, the AI won't walk into your cap.
Now the Zulu get to move too spaces. So if a Zulu warrior happens to move into your cap on accident, well, it takes it. Not sure if this is exactly right, but I've only had the Zulu take my cap before I've met them. You just remember the times they do take it because its so unlucky. Most of the time they just make contact and you don't even notice its the Zulu.
At least this is my experience.
I had this same thing happen long ago in single player with a Chinese horseman. Just galloped right in. If you have no diplomatic status, the AI will always take your empty city. If you are at peace, the AI will try to judge how much you'll hurt it. Not that it's really good at this, but if you're rolling tanks around in 500 BC, the AI will leave you alone completely, even if all your cities are empty and your settlers are unescorted.
The level may play a factor also. Not that long ago, I was playing as America on Deity. I had at least one horsearmy out attacking India to my west. I was exploring with my Great Person to the east and moved him next to a Roman warrior and the AI took him.
Rome, of course, fell maybe about 10 turns later.....
I recently tested a theory I had. If I declare war on the AI with my initial settler will it step its only warrior out of the city to take the settler. Yes, yes it will. However, if you do not declare war, I think it will ignore you.
im pretty sure they also get confused and if the encounter was their warrior vs your settler then they just seem 2 stand still and not rush back 2 their cap... pretty sure
if you mean using a settler to hold open a walk out of a cap
yes that works in gotw although in some scenarios (like where they wouldn't have rushed back to the cap) you'd just loose the settler.
BTW if you catch them next to a barb they will attack the barb instead of protecting their cap - so you get the barb down to 1 flag AND get their capI used that in the game 3 games ago - nice
and also fun in my game before last game i got the japanese to do a settler plus warrior complete walkout to leave an empty cap.. thats also nicealthough in the end i took both.
Another example of strange ai behavior - I galley dropped ai Rome the other night at 2400bc. Just a spy in the cap.
yeah... it's very strange how the AI isn't always predictable. You would think it would follow a set pattern.
That could follow predictable patterns. It's rare that an AI has a spy that early in the game, but presumably it got one from a hut. Perhaps it's unable to understand that the spy won't defend the city so it continues to explore with its warrior while the spy is set to garrison.
This blockade sometimes works as a early warning system but can also be used as a ruse to take advantage of decent players who are paying attention. I often feint an attack (and remain at war) with an AI nearby to OP to alert him to where I want him to think my offense is so he will shift his armies and scouts in that direction while my armies are actually approaching OP from the opposite side.
Played a H2H... my Arabs against a good greek player. Got HBR from a goodie while walking--sweet. Settled two tiles from Spain--awesome. I had a warrior by 3500 and figured I'd have to wait for the 3500-3000 window.
(In retrospect, I wonder if I should have just hammered a horse and taken Madrid when I saw it was open. What would you do?)
Anyway, their warrior comes to the hill next to my cap and I panicked. Is it 100% certain he won't take my empty cap? So I left my warrior in place rather than go for the nearby hut. Their warrior goes back in their cap. I'm hammering a horse and their warrior comes back to my hill. I've got two more turns for the horse and think about selling my warrior to rush the horse. If a horse costs 20 hammers and I have 10 gold, that's not enough to rush the remaining 8 hammers, right? I would have needed 16 gold, right?
Basically, I screwed up the walk in... argh. I got Madrid later with a HA, but fundi horsies on an early galleon would have been sweet.
I disagree. I would rather have 25 gold than horseback, unless I already had gold. The gold is better because it lets you rush a warrior as soon as you settle.
So with 25 gold in your pocket, you would have had the walk-in. As the Arabs, you should go out and meet the warrior, then attack 2-1. Spain won't get a 2nd warrior (unless they got an exploration tile) for five more turns so you can easily walk on in.
As above, I would have rushed a warrior upon settling and gotten the walk-in for nav immediately. It's quite possible you wouldn't even need horseback for this game. If you get a good barb you might have vet warrior army either to your enemy or another AI cap in plenty of time.
It won't take your empty cap unless you are already at war or unless the AI feels like it has a military advantage (which is dumb because your units vanish if it takes your only city). If you have zero units, you should worry. If you have one to their one, you're fine. The Zulu will sometimes if they can attack you without meeting you on a prior turn. That's it.
It's 2 to 1 in ancient. 10 gold buys you 5 hammers.
I like 25 gold too, but there was no way of knowing I'd find Spain that close. When you get 25 gold, do you just walk until you find an AI? If you don't, that could be a lot of wasted turns, right?
I think that was my biggest blunder... duh.
Well, I do often walk until I find an AI because usually they aren't that hard to find. That doesn't mean you shouldn't stop in a likely spot and then get exploring. 25 gold gets you exploring faster. You can research horseback if you need it and you don't always need it, at least not right away. Your vet warrior army has 9 attack. You should only very rarely fail to take a cap with warriors using the Arabs. Once you have that cap, you can get whatever tech you need very quickly. Depending on your opponent and his distance from you, horses aren't always the best answer. Arab archer armies can be really effective. If vet they have 9 attack and 9 defense. You don't want those all over your lawn no matter who you are.
Well, horses came in handy this time. My opponent was fairly close, and taking his HA out with my own really put him on the defensive.
If you find 25 gold, do you try for HBR on a second goodie, or are your settlers goldmongers?
I generally don't bother. Horseback Riding comes quickly enough. I can see the argument for trying, but I don't think it's necessary. I don't like being locked into a strategy. I don't like building horses every game.
Also the AI warrior will walk back in its cap when you meet it but the turn after it will walk back out if you aren't on an adjacent tile. I'm guessing the hill must of been between you so you couldn't of lost 3 Vs 1 anyway. With the army you'd of never lost 6 vs 2.5 anyway so you should of gotten Spain pretty quick regardless.
Thought I would add my two cents... Goodie huts usually never give techs to civs that start with a technology greater than 20 beakers... Very rare. Also civs that get some kind of food bonus will use it... Like the japanees will use the water to grow instead of building archers... If the egyptians have a couple of desert squares they will also grow...if russia has a plain or two they will use it... Its like their bonuses hurt them. China does not come out with the warrior it builds at 3400.
I note you said 'very rare', but the Arabs' seem to reliably get HBR if you try.
They (arab ai) also remain the most unpredictable... when I last played a few weeks ago, twice in a row I walked in on them. I met them by accident in 3500 but still got the walk in as no flag popped up.
I got a walk in at 2900 on Arabs in a tourney match...
I'm not sure exactly what causes it but sometimes the Arabs will go 20ish turns without building a unit. I think some people have the theory that it is related to them getting certain techs early. It doesn't happen too often.
I'm sure that the Arabs sometimes set production to a galley also.
Just walked in on 2 pop Tripoli in 2800 BC. Very weird.
That is weird as they usually get to 3 by 3000. It's sometimes worth the wait and do the 3 warrior attack trick to get a three pop than to walk in at two pop but then again it's hard to resist sometimes when you want fundi...
Arabs are weird when it comes to that. 2 pop, did not rush a unit after I made contact and had 1 worker on grass, the other on trade *confused*
Happened to me today. Met the Arabs two tiles away at 3500. Got the walk-in for religion at 3300—they never built a unit.
They get 3 pop at 2900, or at the end of the turn 3000, so you have to wait and end your turn.
Had a game today where I was struggling to get my 100g. So I start threatening the AI. Egypt gives me 25g. Then I threaten the Zulu and they absolutely freak out, giving me 112g! Unbelievable. I got a message about 7cog, but I just assumed it was my opponent. And I wasn't anywhere near the Zulu cap. lol.
Yeah, it's pretty good if an ai you have met takes 7C, especially if you have tech to sell.
Just a little and simple trick. If that happens at the end of the turn, it's always the AI.
Good to know. Thank you, sensei.
Is it my imagination, or does China have the baddest AAs in the game? They seem to give me more trouble than anyone else.
I would have to disagree. Aztecs are the baddest. No wearing them down. Of course, China usually has multiple AA more consistently than anyone else cause of extra pop.
like the button race when you get the notification that someone poped a GE for 50 or 100g...
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