No, not according to the census.Originally Posted by Avenger762
http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo26a-eng.htm
No, not according to the census.
http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo26a-eng.htm
Um, no... they are a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, in which all members are equal. They are an overseas realm of HM Queen Elizabeth II, as are Australia and New Zealand, but the British Government has no authority there. Indeed, they are constitutionally more like separate crowns in personal union with identical succession, somewhat akin to the Crowns of England and Scotland before the Act of Union.
To summarise simply: the Queen is Head of State of Canada, and of Britain, but the two are equal in sovereignty.
I would like to know why Korea isn't in the list.
Ok there will already be China and Japan, but historically Korea (and even Mongols) were here before Japan was even a united country.
In terms of discoveries, well Japan has none, while Korea invented prints some years before Guttenberg, not even talking about the Turtle-boat...
I would definitly would prefer to see Mongols or Korea than Japan, which only is here, imho, just because it's fashion but yet not logical compared to other civs.
If you really want to add African civs, let's just retrieve our friend Shaka, who became a "classical" in the Civ Family.
Even you can add the Black Pharaos that were leading regions below Egypt.
I agree with Fandaor. Korea has very nearly as much history as China, and even Confucius stated his desire to live in "old Joseon". While Korea lacks the colonial history of European nations, and is perhaps less flavorful militarily than Japan or China, it was a very important innovator, and even today has emerged as a powerhouse of industry (relative to its size). They currently build more ships than anyone else, and are growing as a regional military power (talking about the South, not the north).
The official "Why bother posting here, we've already chosen the 18 Civs" thread?
Exactly, I didn't have to go very far to see that most all Canadians are of European descent, not Native American! Its at least 80% European with half of the remaining percent coming from Asia, mainly China. I have to laugh at anyone claiming Canada to be mainly Native American. What do the Candians think of this???
I think that the game should aim to fill all areas of the map with at least one civilization.
Personally, I think the 'American' civilization should be removed. I know it has always been included, but it's an offshoot of Britain. I think if it is removed and another pre-Columbian civilization is included, it adds to the realism.
Vikings and Spain should be added, and I think Inca, Maya, Tupi, Ethiopians Mongols, Zulu, and Maori should be as well.
That way you've got pretty much all of Europe covered. Whether you like it or not, a good part of Europe at one point was Ottoman anyway. You've got a good battle for Africa and the Americas (north and south), you've got a good part of Asia covered with Russians, Arabs, Ottoman, Chinese, Mongolians, Siam and so on. You also have Australia at least occupied early on.
I don't think any civilization as a result of colonization, at least in the western meaning of the word should be included. I like realism, and having the Americans be a people since 4000bc is a bit ridiculous. You could argue that Germans only unified in the 19th century, but the commonalities between the Germanic peoples had existed for much longer than the Americans. It's just my opinion, I'm not anti-American or whatever, I just think that historically other civilizations would add more to the game, as well as the realism argument.
Half of the technology tree is either something the U.S. has invented or has implemented since its existence. Yes the game starts at 4000 B.C. but the second half of the whole technology tree spans 300 years. Why would you just put older civilizations in a game that has tanks, airplanes, riflemen, ICBM's. Makes no sense.
Uuh, I dont know if you know much science, but what about Okazaki Fragments, for one?
Yeah. For the people who have been saying America is too young and is only in for sales, look at the list of patents we have...
Last edited by madmike; 06-30-2010 at 12:43 AM.
Okazaki has been "discovered" in the 60s... As we already spoke about this, should a Civilization be implemented when its influence on earth has less than 150 years whiles others have been constantly influencing it for centuries ?
Many of the post-industrial discoveries have been made in different places of the world with a delay of less than a year, and this includes Edison's inventions.
As you have mentioned it, many of the patents are US because it wasn't obvious in Europe to do so.
Returning to our subject is more interesting, as for me, major discoveries have been made pre-industrial period, I have some doubts about the validity of countries as Japan while others (Mongols and even Korea) were much much more influencial as civilization.
And for Canada and US, well it's annoying but they weren't there 40k BC so I don't see why they should be in the game, unless 2K want to please casual customers.
Of course. Was Egypt a unique civilization when it was only a decade old? YES! It is still a civilization.
I think it is time to finally get Israel as a nation! King David or Abraham could be the leader and Jerusalem the capital. Tons of city names, just grab them from the Bible. I'd love to play as the Israelites! So much history there!
I think in civilization v there shall be a family of civs : english, french, german, lombard and spanish. I would kick out rome, because its presence generates a redundance with the other before mentioned civs that are the products of the latter and I would instead create common institutions for these five civs, such as the senate in the ancient age, the imperial court in the middle age and the EU in the modern times.
Finally, I would put Lombardy because of it's huge soft power (50% of cultural heritage of humanity, dressing style, food) and its actual financial strenght.
*chokes* pardon??? The cultural heritage coming from Lombardy roughly equals that of every other place and peoples in the world, ever?!??!?! I think not.
Lombard, you're saying you don't want to include Rome along with the civs that "were a product of" the Roman culture and civilization? Despite the fact that the former managed to distinguish themselves from the later? And despite the huge impact that both Rome and some of the countries that could be considered to have been "a product of" Rome had on the World?
In that case why include the Lombards and the Germans when the former could just as easily be labeled as being "a product of" the latter? Wouldn't this create the same redundancy that you are criticizing?
Also the Lombards contributing "50% of cultural heritage of humanity"? No.
Last edited by AMMK; 06-30-2010 at 03:31 AM.
What! You would include Lombardy but kick out Rome? WOW.
Rome was bigger, stronger, richer, and more influential than Lombardy. Many people dont even know what Lombardy is! No.
Ok, you are entitled to your opinion... but seriously?
Last edited by madmike; 06-30-2010 at 05:13 AM.
OK here is my list of civilizations that would be cool to see in the game. I tried to fill in the blanks that seem to be in the list of Civ V civilizations.
2 from North America, 1 Central American, 1 South American, 2 African, 2 Asian, 2 Mesopotamian, and 1 Asia Pacific.
1. Mississippian Civilization
2. Pueblo Civilization
3. Mayan Civilization
4. Inca Civilization
5. Nubian Civilization
6. Abyssinian / Ethiopian Civilization
7. Mongol Civilization
8. Hun Civilization
9. Sumerian Civilization
10. Babylonian Civilization
11. Maori / Polynesian Civilization
Nubians would be an interesting African civilization to see.
Really ?here some names just to make you remember: Alberti, Botticelli, Brunelleschi, Raffaello, Michelangelo, Donatello, Leonardo da Vinci, Bellini, Mantegna, Masaccio, Tiziano, these are only the best artists of the renaissance age...how can you post such things ??
Europe is full of Venices of the north, Florences of the south etc...but these cities are really only in Lombardy.
I agree! It would be sweet to conquer the world as the Israelis!
Haha, no, no there are not... In case you didn't realize, European's had guns... Gorilla tactics are no match for guns! And yes the queen of English is a part of our culture, however just a figure head, we are our own nation! Not a Province! Thanks to the statue of Westminster (1931) we are equal with Britain, as all commonwealth nations are.
To be honest, I find it funny, although my hopes for a Canadian civ have been completely destroyed it's nice to know that most people know quite a bit about Canadian culture, and that we aren't majorly aboriginal people...
__________________________________________________ _______________
And I'd like to make a final point too in regards of Canada, not to spark a debate or anything, so please, no one yell at me! Canada is a great nation who have brought much to the world technologically, culturally and militarily (haha is that even a word?). And I cannot program, so I would ask for a mod with Canada to exist in it! We're a young nation, and you just wait, we'll make history, let's hope we can make the cut for civ 6 (optimism!) And thank's to everyone that has at least been nice in replies, and to those that have been rude or snippy, no matter what you say, we have done plenty in 143 years of confederation, as of today, HAPPY CANADA DAY TO ALL!
PS: here is a link to a great song about our centennial in '67!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vE17...eature=related
Zulu, Ireland, Canada
Some I would like to see.
Zulu - I loved playing them. Historically interesting empire builders. Besides, having only one African civilization is so limiting for players interested in that continent or wanting to play Black civilizations.
Irish - so many millions proud of their Irish heritage, and also a very interesting civilization historically with good possibilities for graphics.
Canada - we Canadians are also proud of our country, and hey, we buy this game in large numbers, thank you very much. Every Civ game has had a mod for Canada.
Now compare to the cultural contributions of not only the rest of Europe (e.g. Shakespeare, Dickens, Austen, Bronte times 3, Constable, Turner, Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Euripides, Moliere, Picasso, Dali, Cezanne, Dumas times 2, Gurther(sp?), Wagner, Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Cervantes... the list could go on), not to mention ancient Romans, who can't really be called Lombards by any stretch (e.g. Virgil, Tacitus). There's also plenty of culture, especially ancient/classical, that can't be attached to a name. The Parthenon, the poetic and dramatic traditions of classical civilisations. Icelandic saga. There's an awful lot of stuff. Then you can go beyond Europe and consider the cultural contributions of American, African, Asian etc societies.Really ?
Lombardy may have been a cultural powerhouse in the Renaissance period, but that's one small period of history. There's a lot of world, and a lot of history, out there.
Of course there isn't, but you can name your civ as you want. Isn't this the same?
equilibrium
The Balkans are occupied by Greece, but you're right, we would all be glad to have a Central European civ.
Just Bulgaria is too South... (hm, we could get regional Slav civs. Jugoslav for the Balkan Peninsula, and Non-Jugo-Slav for East Central Europe (or Hungary with a very alien culture and language). Or simply say that there's Russia and a Panslav civ in Central Europe, representing the following nations:Are there any others? (Russia is independent)
- Bulgaria
- Serbia
- Albania
- Romania
- Croatia
- Slovenia
- Moldova
- Poland
- Lithunia
- Latvia
- Estonia
- Ukraine
- Slovakia with its 30 years of history
romania is not slavic,it is a latin civilization,we speak a latin language(at least more than 60% is latin)...yes its true we were influenced by the slavics too,especially in religion,but we are a daco-roman civilization with slavic influences...
what about the Illyrians??
They would fit perfectly above Greece as that is an empty spot on the map.. I personally want more ancient civilizations.
I haven't seen anyone mention the Assyrians who had one of the first and largest empires of the Ancient World. They brought together many of those ancient peoples from babylon and Mesopatamia all the way over to Egypt.
Well, the only I can say sure is that they've forgot Spain. Really, men, do you think it was a minor faction? Probably Spain has been hate during the last centuries, for its dark legend and other inventions...but there's no man what can say that Spain wasn't important for the History. During XV-XVIII centuries, Spain is in all the wars.
An Spanish civ is very easy:
Leader: Carlos I, Carlos III
Capital: Madrid
Special Unit: Tercio Viejo (remplacing Musketeers), Galeón de Indias
*About Canada, I'm sorry but Canada didn't do anything that change the world and it has never been an empire. Avro Arrow? That plane didn't enter in service. It was really good, but Canada never used it. CN tower, the tallest...Spain has the bigger palace in Europe, but it's not enough to be a special building.
USA are the best country in all aspects today. Canada don't. Germany was and is the most important country in Europe. They fought in the two WW as the leaders of his band. Canada fought really well, as the British, but if you only have two wars in your history, you've to do it well. Spain fought alone against all Europe during XVI century, and Spain is not a civ in Civilization V. Quo vadis?So really I think the Canadian Empire deserves to be a part of Civilization 5. Yes we were a colony of Great Britain until the mid 19th century, however we gained our indipendence, and worked hard to be the country we are today, the least we can have is to be our own empire. The Americans are, and they are not too much older than us, Germany is, they were not an actual country until around 1871 i believe, which is years after Canada became its own country. So I ask with the typical Canadian politeness, to please add our empire to your game!
An ancient Civilization and a Fun One
There are two civilizations I would like to see in CIV 5. One is a very ancient people who are still around today, the Israelite Nation. The Jews have been around since 6000 B.C. They have had great leaders like David and Solomon. They owned nearly all the land in the Ancient Near East for centuries. I would love to see them get in the expansion.
Another civilization are the Hawaiians. They have never received retribution like the native Americans have and they continue to be overlooked here in this game as well. I realize that the Hawaiians might be too small of a nation to put in, but it would be fun to maybe put in a Polynesian Empire or some other pacific islander nation. Kamehameha the Great was one of the greatest leaders of history. You could also include Queen Lili'uokalani as a female leader to mix things up a bit. It would be a change of pace and a fun civ to play with.
Last edited by captainzany; 07-01-2010 at 12:29 AM.
I think the trouble with including civilizations like Assyria and the Hittites is that they overlap other empires like the Babylonians, the Persians, Alexander's empire, the Islamic Empire and the Ottomans. Now it might work in a Rhye's and Fall mod, and for random maps it would work, yet they didn't want to many European civilizations, so they probably won't want to many Middle Eastern civilizations.
Israelites didn't do anything for human development -nothing revolutionary-. I think it would be problems about considere which caracteristics would have. They've been free for a small period.
Hawaiians are few. I've nothing more to say. Its culture was indonesian 90%.
I don't want Spain at your ****ty game, please remove our national flag from your website.
i dont really understand why everyone rips on canada
the game is called Civilization, not '10 Civilizations'.
any country that gained independance through any means and is a self-governing place has a right to be in this game
and its funny that people are so quick to say 'oh canada is just a part of britain' well thats such an ignorant thing to say. america, for example, isnt a race, after all. americans didnt just magically appear. americans are the descendants of the british/scandinavians/french/country-x just like we canadians are. we all started somewhere. even the british. even the spanish. yes, i dare say even the africans.
and if you dismiss our military achievements ill simply call you uneducated. if youre not interested in learning more then your better off keeping your mouth shut because clearly youre without a clue. which is too bad because being uneducated is only hurting you, not me.
lets talk economy. not a single bank in canada required a bail-out during this last 'recession' before the recession we were one of the only economies posting budget surpluses over multiple years. we sit on top of the g8/g20 and the world looks to canada as a shineing example of economic policy and governance.
lets talk invention. from the 56k modem to the java script language and blackberries (okay fine, bb suck but whatever). the electric streetcar, the snowmobile, the canadarm. the gas mask, the basketball (yep, it was canadian), IMAX, 5-pin bowling, ice hockey. i mean comeon even freakin peanut butter was a canadian invention.
so thats my case. every country has a perfectly valid reason to be in this game. how can we include a country like america and then not include sri lanka (formerly ceylon) for example when that country has close to 5000 years of history and culture?
try to be more open-minded. there are hundreds of reasons why canada should be in this game. whats the big deal with having more rather than less anyways?
first post lala.
Last edited by mastafish; 07-01-2010 at 09:35 AM.
That's true. But if from Firaxis only want to include some civs that they were the most important, you cannot say "Spain has no place there", for the simple reason that one day was the unique country which was present around the world. I say, if they include Shongay, why not Spain, a country which had much more power? Of course I want Babilonian and other civs, but the begining is Spain.
First of all, excuse me for my poor english.
I'll get away my nationalistic conscience; I'll try to give reasons about why Spain should be included.
Let's travel to the I Millenium B.C. The Iberian Peninsula was populated by three civilizations: Celtics, Iberians and Tartessos. During 500 years several greeks and fenicians come to Iberian land and founded some cities which served as small colonies. These primitive civilizations had a rich culture, not as greeks or other mediterranean civs, but richest than north-european cultures.
Iberians were the most advanced: they knew currency, a civ of traders and artisans, with a competent army. Iberians lived in the mediterranean coast of Iberia.
In the north were the Celtics, a warlike civ which hadn't currency but with trade in the coast and in the rivers. They were excelent blacksmiths, they knew how to use several metals. They were very religious, like other celtics of Britannia or norther.
The Tartessos people were like the Iberians, more advanced and urban, independent; they desapeared under the Cartago advance.
These civs were prospering, but then begun the Punic Wars (221 B.C.). The romans ocuppied the Peninsula (begin: 197 B.C. - completed in 19 B.C.). Iberians half-adopted Roman culture, using latin lenguage and modern technics of construction. During six centuries Iberia was the richest province of the Roman Empire.
As you can see, the roman invasion frustrated every cultural or territorial expansion of Iberians. So, this period cannot be considerated dominant culture or civ. Let's continue.
In the V century A.C. visighots invaded the Peninsula with Vandals and Alans. Visighots were the most powerful; they aspired to the territorial unit of Hispania. They succeed, but they have a poor culture and tech and they led Hispania to ruin. Finally, Muslims appeared (VIII Cent.). Muslims win easily, but they couldn't conquer the Atlantic coast in the north, for the environment and the costs of atack in the mountains. Then appeared the kingdoms which were the seed of Spain: Kingdom of Castilla, León, Galicia, Navarra and then Aragón.
These kingdoms begun the Reconquista; in the XIII century, the kingdom of Castilla (joined to Galicia and León) was near to defeat muslims in the south, while Aragón had under its control the Mediterranean coast and expanded for the sea to Italy. In 1469, Castilla and Aragón formed Spain (by marriage of Isabel and Fernando), and in 1492 conquered Granada, the last muslim place in the Peninsula. In that year Colón discovered America, and then begun the colonization by Pizarro, Cortés, Orellana...
During this centuries Spain placed as a major faction in Europe, an empire in the making which had under his hands south Italy, part of Greece, Baleares, Corsega and Sardinia; also had some places in North Africa (Tunisia), part of France (Franco Condado), Canary Islands, Central America, Peru, Chile...etc.
This is an EMPIRE. During XV-XVIII this empire expanded with Flandes, Lombardia, part of North America, Philippines, Luxemburg, Tirol, Innsbruck, Bohemia, Moravia -lost in XVI century-...this job is easy with a map:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...chronous_0.PNG
This is only a territorial expansion. Also, during XVI-XVII was the strongest culture in Europe. Is this not enough to be a major faction?
Lock this and keep it in the main thread already sticky-ed on the front page.
oh yeah almost forgot, who cares and they will probably make it into an expansion or DLC right after release.
Last edited by ShadowBadass; 07-01-2010 at 08:23 PM.
Apparantly not. We Scots have Braveheart and everyone has seen that! Even that isn't enough to get the Celts in the game though.
Last edited by Pyrofox; 07-01-2010 at 09:10 PM.
mastafish
and if you dismiss our military achievements ill simply call you uneducated. if youre not interested in learning more then your better off keeping your mouth shut because clearly youre without a clue. which is too bad because being uneducated is only hurting you, not me.
Just looked from the Wikipedia "Wars of Canada" and it just looked like you have allways been Vassals for someone else ... So lets just say: not a real empire or superpower just a puppet... and Canadas modernday inventions havent really amazed the world... Ask some European/Asian/Africaner which are the Greatest things you know Canada from? Answer is Icehockey and after that just silent"
The Celts were more than Scot's thoughBut since they already added a few of the civs that arose from the Celt family, it's ok, for now.
There are only limited cov spots for the release version, someone has to be left out.
Really, I've just mentioned only some authors of the Renaissance age ( only the very well known cause the total list is impressive)...then there's the humanistic age (Dante, Petrarca, Macchiavelli etc...), and later the classic style, (Palladio, Tiziano, Goldoni etc...) ...have you never heard of Puccini, Rossini, Donizetti and Verdi ...? it's true the lombard romanticism is nothing compared to the european one and even in the modern time Lombardy is not more the main centre of cultural development, where France is far more important. Said this Lombardy has still been home of great artists such as Canova, the best sculptor af all ages, and Modigliani, that will expire the work of famous european artists such as Magritte. My goal here is simply to affirm the true : without the historical Lombard experience Europe wouldn't be the same, because it's inherited from her decisive knowledges (scientific method !, business methods) logic schemes ("homo faber sui"), cultural methods and tastes (classicism, theatre, lyrics) and value social (the importance of the local communities and of the middle class, in Lombardy the exponents of the middle class will conquer privilegies and power within society from the XIII). For all these reasons I think Lombardy or Italy deserves a place in this game and I repeat Rome is a common ground for all Europe, Germany and England included and it doesnt stand for Lombardy (or Italy).
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