The official "Why no Spain, Inca, Zulu, Tannu Tuva, Bhutan, etc" Thread

[Tertuliano]

The irony is that Britain isn't even in the game - although let's not start that debate again.

Look, I understand your grievance, but that's the decision Firaxis took. Since the phrase is mostly used in reference to the British Empire, Firaxis has (questionably) given the name to England's UA. That isn't going to change and two civs aren't going to have to same UA name. You might not be happy about it but that's the way things are.

Firaxis was wrong. Made a mistake by thinking only to the Anglo-American market.

If Firaxis wants to conquer other markets whose culture is not british, they must alert and learn about the culture, history and mentality about the markets they are going to sell their products.

If the fans in Spain Civ games are like me ... (I guess you have to like the story to like this kind of games) ... I assure you that these are people who know quite well the history of their country, the characteristics and extent of the empire who their grandfathers built and also are very proud of this history and empire (the Spaniards are well, you see)

And to such customers, to be robbed what was the motto of their empire, to give also the British,... (For the Spanish people that the opposite happens to you: We know our history, not the british and its colonies, so do not tell them that British also use the Spanish empire motto and in U.S. you associate with them, becouse it don't care. For we it's a robb.)... I assure you it will not going to make any grace to spaniards fans.

Firaxis has screwed to the bottom, So they take it out.

And if not, do not complain if they sold fewer units of Civ V in Spain, than icies in Antarctica.

[Black Gate of Mordor]

Firaxis was wrong. Made a mistake by thinking only to the Anglo-American market.

Considering the game has English as the primary language (Anglo) and America is their largest market of the English market (which also happens to be the largest market) I'm fairly sure they'll take an Anglo-American approach. Their capitalists, they're making this game for money, not for fun. Yes, developers do have loyalties but they're in the game for the money. It may not be their top priority but I'm fairly certain that everyone who was on that development team had 'money' somewhere on their list of reasons for joining Firaxis.

edit: I believe if we continue to follow these discussions of WW2, Spain and Portugal this thread will turn into a political waste of time, and it could get shut down. Let's not turn over 2000 posts into nothing. The WW2 thing is gone, as is the America-Canada scenario. Tert, you and Homero have been arguing Spain vs. Portugal for a couple of pages now. Both were huge empires, and I'm sure that both of them will probably be in civ5 at one point.

[craig123]

And if not, do not complain if they sold fewer units of Civ V in Spain, than icies in Antarctica.

Do you really think that the name of Spain's UA is going to have a noticeable effect on Civ5 sales in Spain? Remember, Spain isn't even in the game (yet); don't you think that will have a greater effect on Spanish sales than who gets to use a motto? Besides, if the Spanish market really was so vital to Firaxis's profits, Spain would have been in from the start. I think you may be getting things out of proportion a little bit.

[Wodan11]

I call Onandoga red skin, the same way that he can call me (and I hope he does because it is a name that I love) "pale face" ... and I would not mind anything to call me whitey, or little white, because it is I am.

There is nothing wrong with that. Is normal to call the people high high, low low, fat fat or bald bald. The abnormal is seeking euphemisms and circumlocutions, because our complex and bad conscience, don't let us calling the things and people by name. Do you understand, face pale?

I agree with Shiav. In the States, we just don't do that. The chances that you'll offend someone are too high.

It's like Hitler in Germany. Our culture has just had so much trouble on the topic that we're hypersensitive to it, and as a result we simply avoid it altogether.

It's not like there's any trouble avoiding it anyway. You may say it's "abnormal" but it's a simple thing to do, to respect the sensitivities of other cultures.

When a word is used as a derogatory reference at some point in time, that word is thereafter polluted. Anyone who uses that word without respect for this history runs the risk of being seen as insensitive. Actually, that would be literally true, it is insensitive.

[Tertuliano]

In North Africa,the reign of Charles V saw a decline in the presence of Spain. By 1598, Spain was essentially bankrupt and Philip III inherited a nation doomed to decline (already in economic decline)The mild improvement of the sixteenth century was more than offset by the sharp deterioration of the seventeenth century. Ironically, Spain would be the only country negatively affected by American silver

Ceuta, Melilla, Penon de Alhucemas, today (XXI century) remain Spanish. Oran, lost in 1708 (XVIII century) was recaptured in 1732.

But furthermore, you turn to throw balls out. For this your talking about the possessions Portuguese in Africa, bankruptcies and American silver, because you can not deny the greater: during the sixteenth and seventeenth part of the domain was Spanish North African coast, Porges not.

Well...then comes the epic of the winners, the Spanish conquistadores, heros, who, in fact "were nothing but bandits, corsairs of gold, in service of their king.
Yet-there is a huge difference between Brazilian explorers and Spanish conquistadores. In fact, the frontier was to play a far more important role in the development of Brazil than it would in the Spanish Indies.

Yes, the conquerors (not the missionaries) were entrepreneurs, with quite few siscrupulousness, moved to their profit motive. Capitulations gned with the Crown, allocated them areas of conquest and expansion. Financed at their expense (or that of those people who would invest in their aventure) because the Crown did not give them a penny and they committed to pay the Crown as fifth of the tax benefit obtained (the famous "royal fifth"), the rest was for them and their financiers. So what of the conquerors was a business, sometimes successful and sometimes wrong ... So?

As I do not think that bandeirantes were moved by motives far more altruistic than conquerors, the only difference I see is the diferent importance gave for Spain to that zone (sparsely settled by peaceful civilians without any military protection) and which gave the Portuguese who held parts of India, led by military or aggressive settlers, who eventually imposed its law in the territory.

"History of Latin America", Edwin Williamson:
"The Spaniards lost by and large, lost interest in their frontier zones, concetrating in developing the mining areas, their major areas of colonization. Brazil was different. The interior was always a beckon"

It's true, and?...

Probably because that beckon is what the Portuguese sent there aggressive settles who manipulated the indians in their favor, while Spain (tipped in mining areas) did not give importance and defended this territory.

A reality in Americas and Philipines. Alegory in Africa and Asia.

Assuming that in Portuguese empire (after the Spanish) the distance between the coast of Brazil (including the interior)) and the Portuguese colonies in Asia and the Pacific (Moluccas and Macau), is nearly half way round the world, in Portuguese empire, the sun YES set. And the proof is that Portugal, unlike Spain or Britain, never used that motto.

Not really.

Ask the Spanish sailors, during the 16th century. Ask Columbus. Ask Magalhães.

Ho, ho, ho... Colon is not known where he was born. In fact, the most widespread theory is that he was Genovese (Italian) not Portuguese. Even some people argue that he was Mallorcan Galician (Spanish).

Magalhães was Portuguese, that's true, but he was a mercenary in the service of Spain. So working for Spain, not Portugal, because he would served to Portugal, rather to Spain, he never could sailed the seas who sail, and never would have discovered the strait that bears his name.

And before Spain, ask Camões:
"Vós, poderoso Rei, cujo alto Império
O Sol, logo em nascendo, vê primeiro;
Vê-o também no meio do Hemisfério,
E quando desce o deixa derradeiro"

"Allende nuestros mares,
allende nuestras olas:
¡El mundo fue una selva
de lanzas españolas!"

Absolutely correct - the British Empire.

I do not see it so clear like you.

Hispano-Portuguese Empire (about 1620). Reached greater extent than British.

Yes, I know that you do not like to be remembered that two empires were united and for more than half a century was united, though each "Hispanic" kingdom (including Castile and Aragon) retained their own parliaments, jurisdictions and areas of influence. But it was the history, my friend

Philip III of Spain (and II of Portugal ), ruled over an empire larger than the British.

http://www.libertaddigital.com/multi...imperios-mapa/

Tertuliano/D Quixote lives in a world of denial and fantasy. In other words, the history of Spain:

"Spain’s and indeed Don Quixote’s major downfall was the continued battles to which they committed themselves, with thought only of glory rather than self-preservation and without taking into account the necessary social and economic advances needed to sustain a country"
Alexander Osborne

If you say so, that will be...

"With the church we met, friend Sancho"

[craig123]

Philip III of Spain (and II of Portugal ), ruled over an empire larger than the British.

I don't think so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_land_area

The combined land area of the Spanish and Portugese Empires at their greatest extent (22.0 + 10.4 = 32.4 million sq. km) is still less than the Britsh Empire (33.7 million sq. km).

[Tertuliano]

Do you really think that the name of Spain's UA is going to have a noticeable effect on Civ5 sales in Spain? Remember, Spain isn't even in the game (yet); don't you think that will have a greater effect on Spanish sales than who gets to use a motto? Besides, if the Spanish market really was so vital to Firaxis's profits, Spain would have been in from the start. I think you may be getting things out of proportion a little bit.

Spain and what they think the Spanish fans have cared a shhiit to developing this version, is evident.

As you have said, this is a business. And Spanish market is very small so clearly has been ignored.

I have no idea how are going the sales of Civ V in my country. So I can only say that I have not purchased. And the only sale I've seen of Civ V in my town, when I was in a shop which sold it, was a guy who spoke English, not Spanish (ho, ho, ho ...)

I guess when the expansion comes out, so that the motto of our empire was already awarded exclusively to British, not help the developers to make new friends in Spain. And I also suppose that it don't care much, because as you say, our market is a minority market.

But contempt for minorities, not build a business empire.

[Onandoga]

I honestly dont care. I just want to point out that im also GERMAN and SWEDISH. yes, and they arent red...(except for erik)

AHEM. i have already adressed that i dont care. Theres a football team called the redskins, why hasnt it been shut down? because no one cares. So lets drop that silly debate. thanks.

[Tertuliano]

I agree with Shiav. In the States, we just don't do that. The chances that you'll offend someone are too high.

It's like Hitler in Germany. Our culture has just had so much trouble on the topic that we're hypersensitive to it, and as a result we simply avoid it altogether.

It's not like there's any trouble avoiding it anyway. You may say it's "abnormal" but it's a simple thing to do, to respect the sensitivities of other cultures.

When a word is used as a derogatory reference at some point in time, that word is thereafter polluted. Anyone who uses that word without respect for this history runs the risk of being seen as insensitive. Actually, that would be literally true, it is insensitive.

Sorry, but I don live in U.S and I also don't so idiotic as americans.

For me, call me pale balco or is no insult. And for that reason, I consider insulting to call either red or black skin of a person who either of these races.

The connotations, interpretations and additions you want to do these words, do you. They are yours, not mine. I, nor use it as an insult (because this words are not insults) or to use them I think I am offending anyone.

And if I offended someone, that is the subject who must protest, and I'll seek another way to address to him. Not an inquisitor as Shiav or your, which in this case I have not addressed.

... (Buan, a Shiav, if you've named Jiminy Cricket, who does not think it's no insult )...

You will know why you consider negative this words.

Complex or "bad conscience, perhaps?

[Onandoga]

Sorry, but I don live in U.S and I also don't so idiotic as americans.

Yet your profile thing is a picture of Bart simpson of an american cartoon...?

[craig123]

I guess when the expansion comes out, so that the motto of our empire was already awarded exclusively to British, not help the developers to make new friends in Spain. And I also suppose that it don't care much, because as you say, our market is a minority market.

All I can say is that if sales in Spain fall just because of a motto, that's really sad (as in pathetic - not upsetting). However, I suspect that sales will fall by 1 (unless you change your mind, that is). I bet 99% of people who buy Civ5 don't even realise each civ has a "motto", let alone what it actually is, until they play the game. I think you're deluded.

[reynanuy]

Tertuliano I think you need to ease out with your nationalism and let this thread be. OK, yes Spain had a big empire and I agree that the English(we know it should be British) UA should be for the Spanish civilization. But your simple and brute thinking, of using adjectives loaded with a derogatory meaning to refer to people, who obviously are self conscious about these things; is simply despicable. I know for a fact that you are not alone, many Spaniards use derogatory terms to refer to immigrants for example; but that doesn't make it OK.

[Wodan11]

Sorry, but I don live in U.S and I also don't so idiotic as americans.

I find it ironic that you consider the developers are being insensitive to Spanish peoples, while at the same time you consider yourself as completely OK to be insensitive to other peoples.

[Tertuliano]

Yet your profile thing is a picture of Bart simpson of an american cartoon...?

My profile is "El Barto"

And the Simpson is also seen in Spanish TV.

We live in a global village, recalls.

[Shiav]

My profile is "El Barto"

And the Simpson is also seen in Spanish TV.

We live in a global village, recalls.

the simpsons is almost as american as the starspangled banner.

o, and "political correctness" is there for a reason. yes it can be taken to far, but honestly go to new york and call someone the "n" word and you will be shot. its as simple as that. use the easier words. and dont ignore my entire post, you just read what you wanted to because you cant refute the other points. simple as that.

[Tertuliano]

Tertuliano I think you need to ease out with your nationalism and let this thread be. OK, yes Spain had a big empire and I agree that the English(we know it should be British) UA should be for the Spanish civilization. But your simple and brute thinking, of using adjectives loaded with a derogatory meaning to refer to people, who obviously are self conscious about these things; is simply despicable. I know for a fact that you are not alone, many Spaniards use derogatory terms to refer to immigrants for example; but that doesn't make it OK.

It's funny that you consider derogative what we consider a natural and next treatment.... poorly educated some times, if you want. But in no way derogatory or insulting. And also is not false or euphemistic.

I can assure you that the relationship (in general) of the Spanish with immigrants and other peoples and cultures, is much more cordial than it historically has been the Anglo-Saxon or German Aryan with them. But, of course, we do not look over his shoulder, and consider ourselves superior, even emploing with them as natural and rudeness treatment that we use in ourselves.

Because even when there were slaves, their treatment in the Spanish colonies was infinitely better than what they gave in the Anglo-Saxon.

Florida, in the seventeenth century, was defended for black men ex-slaves escaped from british plantations, which Spain was released and gave lands on the border and guns to create their own vilages and organize their defense.

You can also ask the descendants of the Seminole and the Pueblo Indians, for example, How was the treatment and consideration given to them by British or Spanish.

... Maybe it the matter.

We do not have this historical complex you have, so you have to dress up the words to the language does not remind people who are not Anglo-Saxon, how tried them your great-grandparents.

I find it ironic that you consider the developers are being insensitive to Spanish peoples, while at the same time you consider yourself as completely OK to be insensitive to other peoples.

It is clear that I expressed myself bad, (which with my level of English is not difficult) .

Developers have been insensitive to the Spanish culture and feelings, that's true.

And I'm critical (insensitive if you want) with the Inquisitors who want to impose - through threats - their political correctness to others.

If call blacks to blacks, bald to bald or fat to fat, you think I'm showing insensitive, that's your problem, not me.

I do is treat them naturally, without ulterior motives. With the same ease and the same respect with which I hope they treat me, which I do not care to call me white skin, pale face, "four eyes" (wear glasses) or any trait that really defines to me... but I'm not american.

And if in U.S. the level of idiotic politically correct, has come to affect so many people like they allowed, like here, threaten to report the people who don't use their "correct" lenguage, (guessing in my words the intention that they and not I, want to give). I just remind that I am not American so I still have not reached that degree of moral nonsense majority, apparently, there.

[The Sovereign]

the simpsons is almost as american as the starspangled banner.

What do you mean by that?

o, and "political correctness" is there for a reason. yes it can be taken to far, but honestly go to new york and call someone the "n" word and you will be shot. its as simple as that.

Wow, really? It's that bad? How do you know this? Was a friend of yours shot, or have you shot somebody? It seems rather excessive to murder someone in broad daylight for a simple insult.

[The Sovereign]

I find it ironic that you consider the developers are being insensitive to Spanish peoples, while at the same time you consider yourself as completely OK to be insensitive to other peoples.

No, you find it hypocritical, not ironic.

[The Sovereign]

-Do not forget who holds the keys to planetary destruction, and what is stopping them from turning.

Who, and what?

[Wodan11]

It's funny that you consider derogative what we consider a natural and next treatment.... in no way derogatory or insulting. And also is not false or euphemistic.

Interesting. Well, it's funny that you consider derogative or insensitive what we consider a natural treatment (saving Spain to headline one of the expansions), but is in no way derogatory or insulting.

[Wodan11]

No, you find it hypocritical, not ironic.

Yes, you're absolutely correct.

[reynanuy]

[QUOTE=Tertuliano;1275394]It's funny that you consider derogative what we consider a natural and next treatment.... poorly educated some times, if you want. But in no way derogatory or insulting. And also is not false or euphemistic.

I can assure you that the relationship (in general) of the Spanish with immigrants and other peoples and cultures, is much more cordial than it historically has been the Anglo-Saxon or German Aryan with them. But, of course, we do not look over his shoulder, and consider ourselves superior, even emploing with them as natural and rudeness treatment that we use in ourselves.

Because even when there were slaves, their treatment in the Spanish colonies was infinitely better than what they gave in the Anglo-Saxon.

Florida, in the seventeenth century, was defended for black men ex-slaves escaped from british plantations, which Spain was released and gave lands on the border and guns to create their own vilages and organize their defense.

You can also ask the descendants of the Seminole and the Pueblo Indians, for example, How was the treatment and consideration given to them by British or Spanish.

... Maybe it the matter.

We do not have this historical complex you have, so you have to dress up the words to the language does not remind people who are not Anglo-Saxon, how tried them your great-grandparents.

I don't have the kind of complex you talk about, because simply I am not Anglo-Saxon; I am Latin American. And even though I don't have any kind of complex, at least I realize that some people do and as a mere show of respect; I take their feelings into consideration before writing/speaking. Besides we Spanish speaking peoples are not that free from derogatory adjectives, even amongst ourselves; plus there are many that go beyond any kind of language or cultural barrier. So just because you feel that people from the US are over sensitive about the language, doesn't mean that you should just ignore peoples' feelings; no mater where you are from or who you are.

[EnigmaCode]

If anything, that's been the only World War. WW1 was called the Great War at the time for good reasons - there were millions of casualties. But it wasn't worldwide.

Actually, that's a common misconception. World War I, although primarily fought in Europe, also had fighting in Africa, Asia and the Pacific. Therefore it is a world war. Many people overlook that. There was fighting in German colonies in Africa. In addition, Japan fought German colonies in Asia and the Pacific. Clearly it was a world war.

Europe isn't the centre of the world.

Agreed.

Just because countries from everywhere are participating in a war doesn't mean it's a world war. Is Afghanistan a world war? Was Vietnam? Korea? (yes, they were wars. Don't deny it, Americans).

I don't really know why you think Americans would deny that the Korean War wasnt a war. I mean, we technically did win (we completed the objective to protect South Korea from becoming Communist).

Anyways, a world war to me is a war in which major, substantial fighting happens in at least three continents. Under this definition, World War II was a world war (duh) as was World War I. The various crusades/jihads that went back and forth can be seen as part of one long religious world war between Christendom and the Islamic Empire.

There were many turning points in the war, but Midway destroyed the Japanese. I'm pretty sure taking out an ally of the enemy is a turning point, even if it's on the other side of the world.

I didnt mention the Pacific because 1) I was addressing only the European aspect of the war and 2) my explanation was so detailed and long that I was tired of typing so I just left it at the European theatre of war.

[EnigmaCode]

Tertuliano I think you need to ease out with your nationalism and let this thread be. OK, yes Spain had a big empire and I agree that the English(we know it should be British) UA should be for the Spanish civilization. But your simple and brute thinking, of using adjectives loaded with a derogatory meaning to refer to people, who obviously are self conscious about these things; is simply despicable. I know for a fact that you are not alone, many Spaniards use derogatory terms to refer to immigrants for example; but that doesn't make it OK.

I second the motion!

[Tertuliano]

I don't have the kind of complex you talk about, because simply I am not Anglo-Saxon; I am Latin American. And even though I don't have any kind of complex, at least I realize that some people do and as a mere show of respect; I take their feelings into consideration before writing/speaking. Besides we Spanish speaking peoples are not that free from derogatory adjectives, even amongst ourselves; plus there are many that go beyond any kind of language or cultural barrier. So just because you feel that people from the US are over sensitive about the language, doesn't mean that you should just ignore peoples' feelings; no mater where you are from or who you are.

Of course, people who speak Spanish have a lot of derogatory adjectives. Maybe even more than English speakers.

But what I'm seeing they, not give them the importance who gives the english speakers ... (Here often insulting between friends is made friendly no with intention of offending, and is a sign of closeness and trust) And nor insult believe the same things: in Spain to call a black man or black, or a white man, white (if is a black man how call), it is no insult.

If our friends Anglo-Americans have very thin skin and bothered as I speak to them, they should say so concerned. I'll apologize and will try refer to them with other words. But I do not admit, is other different people, which I have not refer in those terms, throw to me on face anything and unless he threaten to report me.

[Tertuliano]

I second the motion!

What is the problem that Britain and Spain will have the same motto.

Wonder.

There is more to explain things: The British and americans, that slogan was invented by Spanish, and used for them to define its empire before even than British used. And the Spanish, that although most do not know, the British also used it becouse in their empire also de sun never set.

Is it so hard to understand?

[Wavemanmav]

There has been an overwhelming amount of threads lately asking for a specific civilization to be added to the game. Please use this thread to make the case for your specific civilization, any other threads that are created will be merged with this one.

One word: Luxembourg.

[The Sovereign]

And if not, do not complain if they sold fewer units of Civ V in Spain, than icies in Antarctica.

What do you mean by "icies"? I'm not being facetious, I'm just curious.

[EnigmaCode]

What do you mean by "icies"? I'm not being facetious, I'm just curious.

Maybe he means that Firaxis will sell so many copies of Civ V, that the weight of all the copies will outweigh the ice found in Antartica.

[EnigmaCode]

What is the problem that Britain and Spain will have the same motto.

Wonder.

There is more to explain things: The British and americans, that slogan was invented by Spanish, and used for them to define its empire before even than British used. And the Spanish, that although most do not know, the British also used it becouse in their empire also de sun never set.

Is it so hard to understand?

First of all, my post had nothing to do with that motto thing so I don't know why you brought it up. I really don't know what the point of your post is either. Do you mind clarifying?

[Ash_F]

What do you mean by "icies"? I'm not being facetious, I'm just curious.

icie= delicious frozen treat. Probably not popular in Antarctica though.

[Shiav]

Who, and what?

a moment c'est obama et putin, and that chinese guys name who i always forget. whatever. Obama/Putin/Chinese leader hold the keys to planetary destruction, as the nuclear capabilities of any one of these three are enough to remove all life from this earth. Lord only knows what stops them (hopefully morality/kindness/not being suicidal?)

o and you cannot say the n word because A its obviously offensive, unless youre black, B black people will take offense to it, C gang violence in most cities means offending the gang is a bad decision.

Tert not using such words does not mean youre thin skinned, it means you show respect for other people. Sure, you can jokingly insult friends, but calling a complete internet stranger ☺☺☺☺ like that? really?

PS we have all accepted that Spain used sun never sets before britain, but the british empire was the largest in history thus they beat you thus they can rightfully steal it. technically the sun never sets on russia, as in the summer the sun always shines on their arctic holdings while in the winter the sun always shines on their antarctic research bases (though the same can be said of Canada, USA, Norway, etc.) thus somewhere russian always has sunlight. If you wanted to be incredibly specific you could say that all members who contributed to space efforts also can claim this, because as long as you have two sattelites on each side of the planet you can always see the sun from one.

PSS i believe the actual world war count is up to 7, as after 1814 all wars involving britain have been considered world wars, as britain had colonies on all continents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war

Spanish Succession=ww1
Seven Year's War=ww2
American War of Independence=ww3
French Revolutionary Wars=ww4
Napoleonic Wars=ww5
WWI=ww6
WWII=ww7

the second boer war has also been considered by some, has have many other warss.

[Tertuliano]

What do you mean by "icies"? I'm not being facetious, I'm just curious.

I mean, as if Firaxis don't change of mentality, will sell fewer copies of Civ in Spain that ice-cream are selling in Antarctica.

... How you say the ice-cream made only with ice?

http://www.pixfans.com/wp-content/up...8/11/polos.jpg

[Tertuliano]

First of all, my post had nothing to do with that motto thing so I don't know why you brought it up. I really don't know what the point of your post is either. Do you mind clarifying?

Yeah right. For that we are.

I don't know if it was in your post or another ... (I've already responded to many I get confused) ... someone said that two civilizations can not have the same motto.

And I wonder why not.

2K has given it to British, because they used it to define their empire and developers unaware that Spanish also used it (and before the British) to define our own empire.

For as it is no longer going to take it to the British (because that's impossible) that it's also to the Spanish when included in the expansion.

I'm talking about the motto, not the properties given. Even the same motto can have variations.

In the Spanish case, look like (translated) that Spain motto used:

"In Spanish Empire, sun never set" ... with the properties that they believe will best suit to this empire.

In the British case, maintaining actually that it is "the sun never sets"

That's it. If someone, through ignorance protest (very likely, given the knowledge that we both have to the other rule) it is explained that the other rule also used the same slogan, because even in their empire the sun never set.

What's the matter?

[Tertuliano]

a moment c'est obama et putin, and that chinese guys name who i always forget. whatever. Obama/Putin/Chinese leader hold the keys to planetary destruction, as the nuclear capabilities of any one of these three are enough to remove all life from this earth. Lord only knows what stops them (hopefully morality/kindness/not being suicidal?)

o and you cannot say the n word because A its obviously offensive, unless youre black, B black people will take offense to it, C gang violence in most cities means offending the gang is a bad decision.

Tert not using such words does not mean youre thin skinned, it means you show respect for other people. Sure, you can jokingly insult friends, but calling a complete internet stranger ☺☺☺☺ like that? really?

PS we have all accepted that Spain used sun never sets before britain, but the british empire was the largest in history thus they beat you thus they can rightfully steal it. technically the sun never sets on russia, as in the summer the sun always shines on their arctic holdings while in the winter the sun always shines on their antarctic research bases (though the same can be said of Canada, USA, Norway, etc.) thus somewhere russian always has sunlight. If you wanted to be incredibly specific you could say that all members who contributed to space efforts also can claim this, because as long as you have two sattelites on each side of the planet you can always see the sun from one.

PSS i believe the actual world war count is up to 7, as after 1814 all wars involving britain have been considered world wars, as britain had colonies on all continents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war

Spanish Succession=ww1
Seven Year's War=ww2
American War of Independence=ww3
French Revolutionary Wars=ww4
Napoleonic Wars=ww5
WWI=ww6
WWII=ww7

the second boer war has also been considered by some, has have many other warss.

I see you don't find, friend Shiav.

Repeat: for me, to call a person who is defined as Iroquois, "red skin", is NOT an insult. And for him - as he has written here - NEITHER.

So I do not know why you have to get in the middle, charged insulting and threatening me! to use an expression that is limited to defining race, without any further connotations that you, with your puritan and sick mind, want to give.

It's bad to be red skin? And being face pale? black? Why? ...why pigmentation of the skin has to be good or bad? ... Martin Luther King was bad because he was black? Hitler or Stalin were good becouse they were whites? ... You realize the so great folly you are defending?

And this other folly that becouse in two or three months (in summer) the sun does not set in northern Canada ... (During the winter while the same time, it does not dawn) is twisting the words to absurdity.

In EM-PI-RE Shiav. We are talking about empires. Not the Polos.

The Spanish (we used that slogan earler and more accurately than British) we made it clear, that it was in the Spanish EMPIRE, in which the sun never set:

"En el IMPERIO español, no se pone el sol"

And never set EVER. During all year there were a place under Spanish rule, when the sun was overland. Not only during two or three months per year in the far north, like in your country.

[craig123]

Interesting. Well, it's funny that you consider derogative or insensitive what we consider a natural treatment (saving Spain to headline one of the expansions), but is in no way derogatory or insulting.

Exactly!

I mean, as if Firaxis don't change of mentality, will sell fewer copies of Civ in Spain that ice-cream are selling in Antarctica.

... How you say the ice-cream made only with ice?

http://www.pixfans.com/wp-content/up...8/11/polos.jpg

They are called "ice lollies" in Britain; not sure if Americans have a different name?

The Spanish (we used that slogan earler and more accurately than British) we made it clear, that it was in the Spanish EMPIRE, in which the sun never set:

"En el IMPERIO español, no se pone el sol"

And never set EVER. During all year there were a place under Spanish rule, when the sun was overland. Not only during two or three months per year in the far north, like in your country.

Seriously, give it a rest. We know Spain used it before Britain and that it was true. (I'm not sure why Spain used it more accurately btw; Britain used the saying "the Empire on which the sun never sets".) GET OVER IT! Why does it matter to you so much? It's only a phrase. What's the Spanish for "get a sense of perspective"?

[Wodan11]

Repeat: for me, to call a person who is defined as Iroquois, "red skin", is NOT an insult. And for him - as he has written here - NEITHER.

Tert, an insult is in the eye of the beholder. It is the recipient that determines if something is an insult, not you.

I'm about done with this thread. I've pretty much determined that anything Tert says is exactly the opposite of what to do. Spain saved for an expansion? Totally OK. Two mottos? No problem! Calling people potentially derogatory names? Not cool.

[2$Billie]

a moment c'est obama et putin, and that chinese guys name who i always forget. whatever. Obama/Putin/Chinese leader hold the keys to planetary destruction, as the nuclear capabilities of any one of these three are enough to remove all life from this earth. Lord only knows what stops them (hopefully morality/kindness/not being suicidal?)

Taking this even more offtopic then it allready is but who cares anymore

*Pain in the ass mode on
Officially its Medvedev and not Putin although hes probably still pulling the strings
*Pain in the ass mode off

Also unfortunatly there are way way more countrys with enough nuclear warheads and delivery systems to destroy the world, Israel, Pakistan, India, France, etc etc etc. I somethings think it really is a miracle we are all still alive!

[Tertuliano]

They are called "ice lollies" in Britain; not sure if Americans have a different name?

Thanks Craig!

Seriously, give it a rest. We know Spain used it before Britain and that it was true. (I'm not sure why Spain used it more accurately btw; Britain used the saying "the Empire on which the sun never sets".) GET OVER IT! Why does it matter to you so much? It's only a phrase. What's the Spanish for "get a sense of perspective"?

Of course it's just a phrase! I know!

It is THE phrase which, from 1565 to 1898, defined the Spanish empire.

That is something who most of the Spanish know, because we have heard, and also have studied in school.

What most of the Spanish DO NOT know, is that this same phrase, was also used by british to define their empire.

And now, think a little, and tell me what do you think will feeling Spanish fans, when they buy the game and the extent of Civ V. .. (what damn grace needing to buy the expansion for to can play with yours) ... and they'll see also that the phrase who defines their empire, the British have been awarded.

... Really do you think it's only a phrase?

[craig123]

... Really do you think it's only a phrase?

In a word, yes.