Why didn't you put limited installations information on the box?

[drtechno]

Thats what I would like to know.

Other issues about DRM and piracy aside, why the hell isn't that information on box?

When I buy a box of pens, it says "20 inside".
When I buy a box of cereal, it says "12 oz"
When I buy anything of a limited quantity, it states it on the packaging

So whats the deal here? It is a limited quantity because after I use up whatever was 'in the package' I have to jump through hoops to try to convince secureROM or 2k (still not sure who) to graciously allow me to reinstall the game.

[BioShockWins]

I think you could figure out all by yourself that there are only one game DVDs in the packaging. No matter how stupid these forums have prooved people are in general.

[drtechno]

I think you could figure out all by yourself that there are only one game DVDs in the packaging. No matter how stupid these forums have prooved people are in general.

Wow.. You really don't understand what you are purchasing, do you? You aren't buying the DVD, you are buying license to use the software... and by limiting the installations, you are limiting the number of uses in this case.

Why is that not on the box? The number of installations of the software is limited to 2 (or possibly 5 by 5 now). Why isn't that on the box?

[BioShockWins]

I love to argue with you people, I really do.

So, anyway. I grabbed a perfectly good product in a box. Ya follow me? This specific box contains [i]MiniLights[i]. These are, as the name suggests, very small lights. Intended to be used for Christmas decorations. I've never used these, so they still have sense of being 'new' or 'unused'.

On it, it reads:
35 steady Burning or Single Flashing
Lighted Length: 9.5 ft. (2.8m)
Total Length: 12 ft (3.6m)

I assume by law, they are required to put the ammount of 'product' the box contains. But no where, does it state how many times you can use it!

When you bought the game, you aren't paying for activations. You are paying for the code on the disk. Which is indeed the product. As far as I know, they had no reason to put it on there. Especially when 1) It was completley subject to change, seeing how it just did. 2) Isn't their product. They can't directley influence how it runs. 3) I doubt they had anyway of knowing that BioShock's audience included so many 'whiners' who would complain over this. I'm sure they had little reason at the time to put such a thing on there.

Especially since it's been known for several months before release.

[Guloluseus]

Actually, to be technical, you are NOT paying for the code on the disk. You are paying for a licence to use said code, and for the disk itself, plus packaging etc. You own the disk, you own the licence to use, you do not own the code.
However, while it may have been known that only a certain number of instals are allowed, I for one did not know it. Where was it put? Does that mean I have to scour the net to find out if a game is limited? That info could easily be put on the box, that a limited number of installs are allowed. I have no problem at all with that, after all it is an anti piracy step, and with the amount going on I feel they are well withn their rights to do it.
SO... who am I agreeing with? LOL! Both, I guess. Really, if something has a limited usage/ lifespan above the norm, the used should be informed- case in point, Microsoft clearly state number of licences on the box, for win, and if you need to reinstall, there isa procedure for it. It would be useful to know beforehand, as it can affect a users choice.
Myself, I want to install on 2 OS's on 1 computer, for a number of reasons. If I can do that, fine, but I dont weant to be ina position where I want to change, and can't.

[bojo]

I love to argue with you people, I really do.

So, anyway. I grabbed a perfectly good product in a box. Ya follow me? This specific box contains [i]MiniLights[i]. These are, as the name suggests, very small lights. Intended to be used for Christmas decorations. I've never used these, so they still have sense of being 'new' or 'unused'.



I assume by law, they are required to put the ammount of 'product' the box contains. But no where, does it state how many times you can use it!

When you bought the game, you aren't paying for activations. You are paying for the code on the disk. Which is indeed the product. As far as I know, they had no reason to put it on there. Especially when 1) It was completley subject to change, seeing how it just did. 2) Isn't their product. They can't directley influence how it runs. 3) I doubt they had anyway of knowing that BioShock's audience included so many 'whiners' who would complain over this. I'm sure they had little reason at the time to put such a thing on there.

Especially since it's been known for several months before release.

No, my friend. You still do not understand. As the original poster stated, you are not paying for the "code on the disc." Because you don't own the code in any way. You only own a license to use the code and that's it. It's the same with any software product, DVD, or music CD you buy. And since virtually 100% of games that have ever been released allow you to use that license an unlimited number of times, that is why Take Two needed to state on the box that you do not have that luxury with this game.

[drtechno]

I love to argue with you people, I really do.

I assume by law, they are required to put the ammount of 'product' the box contains. But no where, does it state how many times you can use it!

Thats because you can use it as much as you want until the product BREAKS, not until the manufacturer decides you've used it enough.

[Melodic]

This is such pointless arguing...

What you are paying for is the license to use that code, ONCE. It is intended for a single PC, a single user. THAT is what you are paying for.

[Isotoxin25]

Dr Mambo, Have you actually reinstalled it again and seen with your own eyes that it doesnt work? It wont reinstall at all?

[drtechno]

This is such pointless arguing...

What you are paying for is the license to use that code, ONCE. It is intended for a single PC, a single user. THAT is what you are paying for.

Agreed completely.

So this BS of limiting the number of reinstalls that you can do goes against that license, and it should be stated on the box.

Its a LIMITED license, and its not stated anywhere.

[eatdamuffin]

Actually a better question is why they didn't put a SecuROM logo on the box or tell us it was being installed along with the game.

[drtechno]

Good point

[Soloux]

I love to argue with you people, I really do.

So, anyway. I grabbed a perfectly good product in a box. Ya follow me? This specific box contains [i]MiniLights[i]. These are, as the name suggests, very small lights. Intended to be used for Christmas decorations. I've never used these, so they still have sense of being 'new' or 'unused'.



I assume by law, they are required to put the ammount of 'product' the box contains. But no where, does it state how many times you can use it!

When you bought the game, you aren't paying for activations. You are paying for the code on the disk. Which is indeed the product. As far as I know, they had no reason to put it on there. Especially when 1) It was completley subject to change, seeing how it just did. 2) Isn't their product. They can't directley influence how it runs. 3) I doubt they had anyway of knowing that BioShock's audience included so many 'whiners' who would complain over this. I'm sure they had little reason at the time to put such a thing on there.

Especially since it's been known for several months before release.

Wrong and mismatched! Take the Steam boxes in the shop and You'll understand maybe.

[BioShockWins]

Wrong and mismatched! Take the Steam boxes in the shop and You'll understand maybe.

"wrong wrong wrong"

you guys make these forums worth my while.

[capnhowdy]

"wrong wrong wrong"

you guys make these forums worth my while.

How come every post you make just defends 2K against all takers and never really answers or offers a counterpoint to an argument? You sound like an intelligent dude, theres no way you can possibly think that Securom prevents piracy or does anything other than alienate their paying customers by preventing them from reinstalling without having to spend 6 hours arguing with the Securom douchebags on the phone. It's a major inconvenience and I haven't honestly heard 1 positive thing about it being included on any game ever produced. Every game that has it you get a large chunk of people with activation issues. Plain and simple, should've done their homework instead of going with Securom. It literally took me 12-14 hours of sitting at my computer tweeking everything i could possibly think of to get it to even run. I would bet my yearly salary all these issues are being caused by Securom and Securom alone. That crap should've been on the box. I for one would'nt have bought the game if I had been warned beforehand about that junk being included.

[Forest Fuckery]

You sound like an intelligent dude,

Appearances aren't everything

[GRYPHON_THEDOG]

There was clearly no effort spent informing the customer of exactly what they were getting DRM wise. Much the same lack of effort went into informing fans of the real LE-CE contents..

Irrational always seemed like a stand up company to me, but they've fallen in with hucksters.

I'm certainly happy for those who have played and love it, I'm sure it's a work of art.

If the DRM stays the LE box I bought is going on ebay and I'll wait til I can play it without nanny state restrictions.

please don't comment on my comment laughing eggplant creature, you are a tool...

[Glottis]

There was clearly no effort spent informing the customer of exactly what they were getting DRM wise. Much the same lack of effort went into informing fans of the real LE-CE contents..

Irrational always seemed like a stand up company to me, but they've fallen in with hucksters.

I'm certainly happy for those who have played and love it, I'm sure it's a work of art.

If the DRM stays the LE box I bought is going on ebay and I'll wait til I can play it without nanny state restrictions.

please don't comment on my comment laughing eggplant creature, you are a tool...

Sears,nor Walmart,or any other business,have a legal obligation to tell the shopper what 'locks' they use on thier store front,or what anti shop lifting tech they employ to protect thier products.

There is zero precedent for it,and likely never will be.

[Glottis]

you are a tool...

A shining example to all,of maturity and proper forum bahaviour !



Another example why I will always support a womans right to chose.

[Guloluseus]

There seem to be number of issues here.
Firstly, to continue the example Glottis posted, any store will tell you when they are wanted, how much they expect you to pay for aa product. They often have signs about shoplifitinh, or security guards. In short, they make you aware of the situation you are entering.

To continue, Bioshock has a number of constraints upon it, as to when and where it can be used. Whether these are fair or not is personal opinion. The arguement is that conditions above and beyond those generally imposed for any similar product ( i.e. pc game) have been levied, and that these were NOT advertised. I think the issue getting under peoples skin is that there is no mention of these conditions. How hard would it be to put these on th ebox, so you can see what you are entering into before you buy? Its not difficult. Personally I would STILL have bought the game, because it is a damn fine shooter. Other peope may not, but it is a question of information. This is not about the right and wrongs of 2K, but about people feeling they should know the situation prior to entering into it. If I tell buy something 50 pounds for a job, then pay in rubels, have I fulfilled my end of the bargain legitimately? I am paying, as I said, but not as would normally be expected.

There is the problem- lack of information. Keep up the debate, I love a good flame tee hee!

[Corwin]

Sears,nor Walmart,or any other business,have a legal obligation to tell the shopper what 'locks' they use on thier store front,or what anti shop lifting tech they employ to protect thier products.

There is zero precedent for it,and likely never will be.

They are, however, required to tell you if you're under survelliance, video or otherwise, or any other relevant information.

[ne0shell]

AFAIK there was no real effort made to educate potential buysers about the limitations thanks to DRM. When I buy a product I assume ownership and the right to use that product within "legal fair use". I don't know of any product "sold" which limits the number of times it can be used. Only "rented" products carry that type of limitation. DRM is abuse of customer rights plain and simple. I'm all for developers getting paid for work but in this case the limitation imposed on customers to do so goes too far.

[ed260z]

Unless I'm completely lost, you are not limited to how many times you can install the game. Only to the amount of computers that can run your license at the same time. You can uninstall and reinstall this came forever, as long as it's not on more than 2 computers at once.
I really don't see how the arguments posted, so far, against 2K protecting their product have any validity.

The real problem is how Securecom works. There is a pretty good thread about how malicious this thing is on this forum

[Guloluseus]

T~hats not quite correct. You can install on 5 separate systems at one time, bearing in mind that you can only play with a disk present, so you can only use one at a time.
On each computer, you can install 5 times, and thats it.

[uglor808]

that's totally wrong. you can install on 5 different computers, and ONLY 5 times on the SAME computer (5x5). Note that changes to hardware (new HDD, motherboard) or a windows reinstall/format will require reactivation, and take up one of the 5 "different PC" installs.

Unless I'm completely lost, you are not limited to how many times you can install the game. Only to the amount of computers that can run your license at the same time. You can uninstall and reinstall this came forever, as long as it's not on more than 2 computers at once.
I really don't see how the arguments posted, so far, against 2K protecting their product have any validity.

The real problem is how Securecom works. There is a pretty good thread about how malicious this thing is on this forum