New Adar Poll

[sdu754]

I decided to start a new Adar poll since I thought the old one was out of date. It will have 3 questions, and I'll compile the data.

1) How did you find out about Adar
A) Discovered it on my own by accidently clicking light fog and realizing what I discovered 6
B) Through online forums or told by someone else 17

2) How do you feel about using Adar
A) Nothing wrong with it, I'll use it even if asked not to. 1
B) Think it's ok, and will use it unless someone asks me not to. 7
C) I always use it unless asked not to, because I assume the other player is using it and I want a level playing field. 2
D) I only use it in retailiation to otheres using it first or other forms of annoying / bad behavior. 7
E) Never use it no matter what. 8

3) How did you feel about Adar, before I brought up the question of wether or not it's a glitch
A) Totally fine 10
B) Questionable 6
C) totall wrong 9

I would like everyone to answer all three questions, and post reasoning behind there answers if they want to. But remember this is a poll, for debate please go to the other Adar thread.

My answers are 1)B 2)E 3)C

Will continue to update

[TyShine]

Again with ADAR. Really? Its not a big deal, and yes I use it. If you dont want to fine I dont care, but its available when you play me.

[sdu754]

Again with ADAR. Really? Its not a big deal, and yes I use it. If you dont want to fine I dont care, but its available when you play me.

So can I assume you fall into I'll use it even if asked not Too?

Also how did you find out about it?

[TyShine]

So can I assume you fall into I'll use it even if asked not Too?

Also how did you find out about it?

You can assume that I think the debate of ADAR is a waste of time. Use if you want to, and dont if feel its unfair. Ive been playing this game for over a year, and I cant remember how I figured it out.

[sdu754]

You can assume that I think the debate of ADAR is a waste of time. Use if you want to, and dont if feel its unfair. Ive been playing this game for over a year, and I cant remember how I figured it out.

So if someone asked you not to use it would you?

[TyShine]

So if someone asked you not to use it would you?

If its a player match sure. If its a friend or a newb then sure. Anyone else I would ignore.

[sdu754]

If its a player match sure. If its a friend or a newb then sure. Anyone else I would ignore.

I'll split your vote to .5 for A & .5 for B on question #2 & no answer on the others

[HydroDragon]

1) B
2) E
3) C

I think the reason people don't want to debate A-Dar is because they're either

A) Totally sure that's there's nothing wrong with it.
B) Scared that they'll actually realize that their rationalizations don't make sense and A-Dar is wrong, so they'll have to either abandon their little crutch or play on knowing that they're cheating.

[Tripp]

A
B
A

I didn't know people had a problem with this. The only reason I don't abuse it is because it constantly asks my opponent to speak which gets annoying.

Picking the Americans or Chinese creates a much greater advantage than finding out a unit is on a hill you can't see.

[Pedal2Metal]

Here is the raw data in table format. You can see for yourself if sdu's totals are correct and validate any specific vote by scrolling through the thread for each specific player's posting. Some player's are more of a pain in the ass than others (Tyshine!). Raw data is good.

Player             Q1   Q2   Q3
------             --   --   --
sdu754              B    E    C
HydroDragon         B    E    C
Tripp               A    B    A
Pedal2Metal         A    B    A
Gigiwoo             B    E    B
dukeblue1987        A    B    A
Hellogoodbye123     B    D    B
ScottieX            B    D    B
Jackoneill          B    D    A
carjm               B    E    C
REM018              B    D    C
Matrix49G           *    E    A  [*C for Q1 is not an offered option]
ShowtekGER          B    B    A
TyShine             ?    B    A

Totals
------
Q1
--
A:  3
B:  9
Q2
--
A:  0
B:  5
C:  0
D:  4
E:  5
Q3
--
A:  7
B:  3
C:  4

I decided to start a new Adar poll since I thought the old one was out of date. It will have 3 questions, and I'll compile the data.

1) How did you find out about Adar
A) Discovered it on my own by accidently clicking light fog and realizing what I discovered
B) Through online forums or told by someone else

2) How do you feel about using Adar
A) Nothing wrong with it, I'll use it even if asked not to.
B) Think it's ok, and will use it unless someone asks me not to.
C) I always use it unless asked to, because I assume the other player is using it and I want a level playing field.
D) I only use it in retailiation to otheres using it first or other forms of annoying / bad behavior.
E) Never use it no matter what.

3) How did you feel about Adar, before I brought up the question of wether or not it's a glitch
A) Totally fine
B) Questionable
C) totall wrong

I would like everyone to answer all three questions, and post reasoning behind there answers if they want to. But remember this is a poll, for debate please go to the other Adar thread.

My answers are 1)B 2)E 3)C

1. A
2. B
3. A

I say no reasoning, otherwise guaranteed it will go to debate. Post reasoning in debate thread.

You are missing an option (as was the old ADAR poll):
F. Totally ok, will not use it if asked not to, & will NEVER ask my opponent to not use it (so they can ALWAYS use it even when they've asked me not to).

Probably blows your mind someone would even be willing to vote for F. Well, that's me. If you add F, I'll change my vote.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[HydroDragon]

"Totally ok, will not use it if asked not to, & will NEVER ask my opponent to not use it (so they can ALWAYS use it even when they've asked me not to)."

That's exactly the same as option B, just a little narrower.

[Pedal2Metal]

"Totally ok, will not use it if asked not to, & will NEVER ask my opponent to not use it (so they can ALWAYS use it even when they've asked me not to)."

That's exactly the same as option B, just a little narrower.

I think it's neither broader nor narrower. Both forms allow for the requestor to use ADAR or not. It's just more clear as you've explicitly removed any implication that because you've been asked not to use ADAR that the requestor must also not use ADAR. This way it's 100% clear there are no requirements on the requestor for asking you not to use ADAR.


best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[Gigiwoo]

1) B
2) E
3) B

I don't use it and I prefer others not use it. I develop games, I have watched Sid Meier's speak about his games, and I'm 99% sure that it is simply a bug that was missed in the dev process. Part of the mystery and fun of online play is the element of the 'unknown'. Using this feature annoys other players and attempts to use obvious bugs to bypass the fun element of mystery about what your opponent is doing.

That said, there are lots of bugs in the game, some of which we actively use (like settling a city by placing another unit with the Settler). So, I don't hate it or feel no-one should ever use it, but I personally don't like it. And, I prefer others don't use it in my games.

For the record, my wife definitely feels this is cheating and makes records of players that use it alot so she can avoid them in the future.

Gigiwoo (and Lucky_Snorkel)
PS3.

[HydroDragon]

I think it's neither broader nor narrower. Both forms allow for the requestor to use ADAR or not. It's just more clear as you've explicitly removed any implication that because you've been asked not to use ADAR that the requestor must also not use ADAR. This way it's 100% clear there are no requirements on the requestor for asking you not to use ADAR.


best regards,
Pedal2Metal

I see.

[dukeblue1987]

A
B
A

There are far worse glitches in the game to worry about this one. I have never seen a top player not use ADAR at some point.

[Hellogoodbye123]

B-found out in forums
D-use it in retaliation
B-questionable

[ScottieX]

same as HGB

1) B
2) D
3) B

[Jackoneill]

I decided to start a new Adar poll since I thought the old one was out of date. It will have 3 questions, and I'll compile the data.

1) How did you find out about Adar
A) Discovered it on my own by accidently clicking light fog and realizing what I discovered
B) Through online forums or told by someone else

2) How do you feel about using Adar
A) Nothing wrong with it, I'll use it even if asked not to.
B) Think it's ok, and will use it unless someone asks me not to.
C) I always use it unless asked to, because I assume the other player is using it and I want a level playing field.
D) I only use it in retailiation to otheres using it first or other forms of annoying / bad behavior.
E) Never use it no matter what.

3) How did you feel about Adar, before I brought up the question of wether or not it's a glitch
A) Totally fine
B) Questionable
C) totall wrong

I would like everyone to answer all three questions, and post reasoning behind there answers if they want to. But remember this is a poll, for debate please go to the other Adar thread.

My answers are 1)B 2)E 3)C

1.B
2.D
3.A

If a-dar is used on me, i will use a-dar on my op.Im okay with it though.

[carjm]

1.B
2.E
3.C

There is just no way that using Adar is not an exploit - I won't use it at all. That being said if it is used on me I probably won't get upset, though I may be disappointed if I thought my opponent was skilled.

[holdurtongue]

HAHAHA

It's funny that ya'll are literally advertising a cheat, and then asking cheaters to be honest about using the cheat, hahaha, what a waste of time.

Lol you use it if your opponent says you can!??

realistically all these players that know about it use it all the time, every turn, no matter what circumstances.

Based on the "polls", it seems like no-one just wants to admit that they're a dirty cheater.

[Hellogoodbye123]

HAHAHA

It's funny that ya'll are literally advertising a cheat, and then asking cheaters to be honest about using the cheat, hahaha, what a waste of time.

Lol you use it if your opponent says you can!??

realistically all these players that know about it use it all the time, every turn, no matter what circumstances.

Based on the "polls", it seems like no-one just wants to admit that they're a dirty cheater.

wait wait... i dont use it... i like being more tactiful using militia, scouts on hills, galleys.. its more funner to do it that way, that to push a button a think they have a horse army coming..

if your playing a "cheater" that uses a-dar on you, wouldnt you want to give him some of his own medicine? or would you be ok with it, and be happy he won because of that..?? what would you do? just message him cuss words, and leave it like that? that doesnt seem to balace .. he won,.. and you just sended messages?

[Jackoneill]

wait wait... i dont use it... i like being more tactiful using militia, scouts on hills, galleys.. its more funner to do it that way, that to push a button a think they have a horse army coming..

if your playing a "cheater" that uses a-dar on you, wouldnt you want to give him some of his own medicine? or would you be ok with it, and be happy he won because of that..?? what would you do? just message him cuss words, and leave it like that? that doesnt seem to balace .. he won,.. and you just sended messages?

The kid thinks everyone is a chaet, ya dig kid

[Hellogoodbye123]

The kid thinks everyone is a chaet, ya dig kid

lol, yea, he probably does it too... and doesnt admit it..

[sdu754]

HAHAHA

It's funny that ya'll are literally advertising a cheat, and then asking cheaters to be honest about using the cheat, hahaha, what a waste of time.

Lol you use it if your opponent says you can!??

realistically all these players that know about it use it all the time, every turn, no matter what circumstances.

Based on the "polls", it seems like no-one just wants to admit that they're a dirty cheater.

If you have nothing to actually add to the argument, maybe you should be quiet. There is also no reason to be disrespectful, most people here are helpful & very respectful of one another.

[Pedal2Metal]

Sdu, how did 0.5 come up? I think you should just put the raw number of votes by each option, not use a divisor. Both duke & I voted identically so it's bizarre how a 0.5 occurred.

EDIT: Ok, I see TyShine got the 0.5. TyShine, you get my respect for your boldness.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[REM018]

B
D
C

This is text I had to enter so that the message won't be too short ...

[TyShine]

ill help you out

?
B
A

[Matrix49G]

I don't know if it's a cheat. But in many single player games, I have always encountered this where the AI would make contact with me, even if I can't see them on the map. I thought well maybe another civ i've met introduced the conversation, but when I ask about said civ, they reply I have yet to meet so and so.

So my conclusion is that the computer/AI does this technique every once in a while as well. Given the term A-Dar is new to me, the glitch/cheat/technique is not.

[HydroDragon]

There's an explanation for that.

You can be in a situation where you can see an unit but the unit can't see you. This happens when you're two tiles away from it but you're on a hill or you have the scout upgrade.

In this case you can engage in legitimate diplomacy.

[Matrix49G]

There's an explanation for that.

You can be in a situation where you can see an unit but the unit can't see you. This happens when you're two tiles away from it but you're on a hill or you have the scout upgrade.

In this case you can engage in legitimate diplomacy.

I would agree, but this happens early in game. I know of no units/civ that starts with scout perk. Even if they managed to kill 3 barb huts that early, or waste time/money building a galley for the milita unit.

I think it was an unintentional game move on the programmers part, but it there for anyone to use, and the AI will sometimes use it. It could be possible for a hill, but it's dependent on the game itself. So who really knows for sure.

[HydroDragon]

They could have gained a galley from a barbarian hut, or they could have been on a hill. Neither of which are particularly rare.

I don't see why the developers would program the A.I to use A-Dar when they could easily have programmed the A.I to automatically 'know' if anything's on the square, far less effort required.

[Pedal2Metal]

Can we take the discussion to the debate thread & keep only votes here per sdu's original request?

thanks & best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[Matrix49G]

I decided to start a new Adar poll since I thought the old one was out of date. It will have 3 questions, and I'll compile the data.

1) How did you find out about Adar
A) Discovered it on my own by accidently clicking light fog and realizing what I discovered 3
B) Through online forums or told by someone else 8

2) How do you feel about using Adar
A) Nothing wrong with it, I'll use it even if asked not to. .5
B) Think it's ok, and will use it unless someone asks me not to. 3.5
C) I always use it unless asked to, because I assume the other player is using it and I want a level playing field. 0
D) I only use it in retailiation to otheres using it first or other forms of annoying / bad behavior. 4
E) Never use it no matter what. 4

3) How did you feel about Adar, before I brought up the question of wether or not it's a glitch
A) Totally fine 4
B) Questionable 3
C) totall wrong 4

I would like everyone to answer all three questions, and post reasoning behind there answers if they want to. But remember this is a poll, for debate please go to the other Adar thread.

My answers are 1)B 2)E 3)C

Will continue to update

1) C* ( Discoverd by AI doing it, just did not know what it did at the time. Futher investigation reveal the term ADAR, and people doing for an advatage. I don't belive the AI does it for an advantage of knowing were a unit is, but for possible engaging in war sooner, and/or trading tech.
2) E ( no need for it, I explore anyways, and make sure I have units protecting my cities, as I rarely ever attack first)
3) A ( don't matter to me any, if you feel the need to use it, to gain an advantage then do, people always look for the loop holes in everything, why should it be any different in the digital realm)

* - I know there is no option 'C' but I think the AI does it from time to time.

[ShowtekGER]

I decided to start a new Adar poll since I thought the old one was out of date. It will have 3 questions, and I'll compile the data.

1) How did you find out about Adar
A) Discovered it on my own by accidently clicking light fog and realizing what I discovered 3
B) Through online forums or told by someone else 8

2) How do you feel about using Adar
A) Nothing wrong with it, I'll use it even if asked not to. .5
B) Think it's ok, and will use it unless someone asks me not to. 3.5
C) I always use it unless asked to, because I assume the other player is using it and I want a level playing field. 0
D) I only use it in retailiation to otheres using it first or other forms of annoying / bad behavior. 4
E) Never use it no matter what. 4

3) How did you feel about Adar, before I brought up the question of wether or not it's a glitch
A) Totally fine 4
B) Questionable 3
C) totall wrong 4

I would like everyone to answer all three questions, and post reasoning behind there answers if they want to. But remember this is a poll, for debate please go to the other Adar thread.

My answers are 1)B 2)E 3)C

Will continue to update

B; B; A. easy decision.

it's still a glitch so, in my opinion, whether it's wrong or right to use it is ultimately arguable, just like the american medieval bonus, democracy glitching, and the like.

[Zefelius]

No freakin' clue anymore. I never drank so much until I started following all of these online debates. You're all making me old. I just want to play this stupid game, have a fun time, and won't likely use a-dar but if you use it I'm not going to crap myself or cuss you out or anything remotely like that. Are we good?!

[Pedal2Metal]

No freakin' clue anymore. I never drank so much until I started following all of these online debates. You're all making me old. I just want to play this stupid game, have a fun time, and won't likely use a-dar but if you use it I'm not going to crap myself or cuss you out or anything remotely like that. Are we good?!

No we are most certainly NOT good!
You MUST use ADAR when you play me or else I'll be deeply offended!

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[sdu754]

ill help you out

?
B
A

Changed numbers to signify your change in vote. Thanks

[sdu754]

I would agree, but this happens early in game. I know of no units/civ that starts with scout perk. Even if they managed to kill 3 barb huts that early, or waste time/money building a galley for the milita unit.

I think it was an unintentional game move on the programmers part, but it there for anyone to use, and the AI will sometimes use it. It could be possible for a hill, but it's dependent on the game itself. So who really knows for sure.

If your on top of a hill you can see two tiles away without the scout upgrade. Also if you can see or are next to a civs culture border, they migt be able to see you.

1) C* ( Discoverd by AI doing it, just did not know what it did at the time. Futher investigation reveal the term ADAR, and people doing for an advatage. I don't belive the AI does it for an advantage of knowing were a unit is, but for possible engaging in war sooner, and/or trading tech.
2) E ( no need for it, I explore anyways, and make sure I have units protecting my cities, as I rarely ever attack first)
3) A ( don't matter to me any, if you feel the need to use it, to gain an advantage then do, people always look for the loop holes in everything, why should it be any different in the digital realm)

* - I know there is no option 'C' but I think the AI does it from time to time.

Don't really know how to compile answer 1 for you. It sounds like you did it accidently, didn't realize what you did, and then figured it out later on these forums. If that's the case, it seems to me you fit more into "online forums", because you didn't know what was happening. But for now I won't count it either way unless you want to clarify.

[Pedal2Metal]

Sdu,
Your accounting is off. I went ahead & put the tabulated raw data in my page 1 posting.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[sdu754]

Sdu,
Your accounting is off. I went ahead & put the tabulated raw data in my page 1 posting.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Updated, somehow i Missed one on Question 3. I'm was going to make a better written table to keep track, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Thanks for the help.