My Thoughts on our knowledge

[Hellogoodbye123]

i think "we" have reached nearly completely knowledge of this game, that when you see a guy trying to learn, you almost feel bad they wont learn in one day, not even one week, nor a couple months...

ofcourse we dont know complete knowledge of the game, just like we dont know much of the pacific ocean,.. for example that weird glitch that happened to bum.. but i think we know enough, to obsolete this "greatness" portrayed of MorteEterna.. i think he is now a common among us, but he is still like a "great person" of civ rev world.. we have seen grayson play, could anyone better his moves when he is playing? i think they are the best of the perfomance of the game, other than human error, those are the best moves.

who agrees with this?

we know from "a-dar", "american builder, glitch", "toggle and settle", we know "backfill" we know "oxford bombers" we know about era rush cost, we know about making an army, and using the third unit to get full movement again, we have all the tools for a perfect game, that the only thing that could bring our fall is the effect of luck on either side..

either losing a 3 v1, or the enemy getting 7 cities of gold..

is there anything more to learn? even though as time has proven there is, i think this is where it ends.....

"discuss"

[ShowtekGER]

it would be a typical human error to suggest that we have come to an end. i was 100% sure determinism is the answer. then i was 100% sure relativism is the answer. 1000 years ago our ancestors were 100% sure that you go to hell if you have sex before marriage. i'm done with that. as you correctly say time has proven that we find out more and more. anyway, i don't think there's much more game changing to discover. unless it's a huge bug.

[Zefelius]

Hi HGB!


Well said. We've learned a lot about the game in the last 2 years, haven't we? Yes indeed...

Although, to be honest, I think some players have even more knowledge of the game than what we find on these boards. That's why when I play against some players, they beat me silly. They know more than I do, and they know more than 99% of the players out there. Maybe 50% of the players know about A-dar, but ElThrasher and P2M2 know some things that hardly anyone else have any inkling about. Either that, or they're just hard-working in crunching the numbers and the rest of us are comparatively lazy!

[Zefelius]

anyway, i don't think there's much more game changing to discover. unless it's a huge bug.

I think you're right... But it sure would be mind-blowing if somebody learned a new Russian trick and suddenly they became the new America!!

[bumbumalot]

I think you're right... But it sure would be mind-blowing if somebody learned a new Russian trick and suddenly they became the new America!!

im still waiting for some one to work out a way to make the mongols the new america lol, imagine 30+ mogol cities , then tactically letting some get taken so you can take them back with double trade mwahhahahahaha.

i really hoped from day 1 there was some hidden thing that would make the mongols great.

[FIENDwithSTEEZ]

care to explain all those terms??? I guess im a noob for not knowing what kinds of strategies or tactics those are...

[Cymru]

Even with perfect knowledge of the game (as in chess) there will always be those who excel and those who suck. Like most things in life, excelling probably requires a combination of traits: an ability to use the game's structure better than others, a willingness to spend time on honing those skills and a drive to be the best. I fail on all three but can still admire the accomplishments of those who demonstrate these skills, in the same way I can watch Olympic athletes while sitting on the couch and drinking my single-malt scotch

[MorteEterna]

If you were right HGB, I wouldn't understand why me and other people keep beating the same people with all this knowledge

[Hellogoodbye123]

i think we are that slope, that is suposely reaching the value of zero, but it never gets there, like the asymptote, you guys know what i mean right? it always come up in math.. but instead of zero.. its the 100% mark... we might be like 99.99999999999% there...

and even though you guys are waiting for the russian, mongol super power strategy, its clear that with our knowledge that, that is not possible..

[Hellogoodbye123]

If you were right HGB, I wouldn't understand why me and other people keep beating the same people with all this knowledge

well yea, you keep beating most of the players out there, but the people in the forum have enough knowledge, that with a 51%/49% luck, the 51% on theres, that they could possibly beat you... the good players on the forums that is..

[elthrasher]

There's more to learn. I just learned how best to approach an AI cap early to maximize the chance of a walk-in. I'm sure others knew that before now, but I didn't.

In addition to tricks like that, there are number-crunching exercises and other things like that. I usually try to expand to all available land. Is that a good idea when maybe I could have a quick kill with 10 cities? Expanding to 25 cities not only gives my opponent more time to set up an attack, it also simply allows for more time for the game to freeze up or other bugs to ruin the game. Having the math really down for how many cities one needs to accomplish specific goals would be very valuable in a competitive game. I don't think many (any?) of us have that.

[Hellogoodbye123]

care to explain all those terms??? I guess im a noob for not knowing what kinds of strategies or tactics those are...

a-dar, lets u see where you enemy is, by clicking random spots on the map, you will know the're there because the diplomacy will come up..

american glitch, instead of being 1/2, its actully 1/3, this measn trippple expansion

american builder, rush a galley, then switch to warriors, and you have 3 warriors on 4000bc

toggle and settle, when you move both spaces on a settler you cant settle, but if you have another unit on same space, you can toggle and settle.. lol

backfill, when you science is higher than some techs and the enemy has it, for example, if you have 21 trade and havent researched anything, the following turns you will probably get all 4 techs that are 20 beakers, alpha, bronze, pottery and horseback riding.. (if the enemy has it)

Oxford bombers, if you highest tech is industrialization, and you build oxford university you will receive advanced flight, which is bombers!

rush cost eras, everything gets more expensive as the game proceeds...

3 unit for full movement, get a unit out for example a horsemen two spaces away.. next turn when you finlly get your turn horse out.. move the other 2 horses up to the first one you had to spaces away.. when you create army.. you will have 2 more spaces.. in a sense you moved 4 spaces... helps for the "perfect rush"

[Hellogoodbye123]

There's more to learn. I just learned how best to approach an AI cap early to maximize the chance of a walk-in. I'm sure others knew that before now, but I didn't.

theres more, but i dont think a lot more..some o those things arent are technical as some of the "tools" we can use..

[MorteEterna]

well yea, you keep beating most of the players out there, but the people in the forum have enough knowledge, that with a 51%/49% luck, the 51% on theres, that they could possibly beat you... the good players on the forums that is..

If you really think so, then I should play against them again and try it. But no, I don't lose 1/2 times, not with ease.

[Hellogoodbye123]

If you really think so, then I should play against them again and try it. But no, I don't lose 1/2 times, not with ease.

im not really saying you lose half the time.. but when theres no balance, and both players know most of the same things, things like this could depend the outcome of the game.. also dont forget the civs.. he could be aztec, and you france, meaning you will rpobably lose.. and im not talking about noobs as aztec, but actually players here in the forums that know how to use the aztec, to where they have like 3 horse armies by 2500bc..

[GrizzleyTigers4]

If you really think so, then I should play against them again and try it. But no, I don't lose 1/2 times, not with ease.

I played 3 games with Morte the other day, I have Most of the forum knowledge you are speaking of but there is one thing you leave out. Morte has all maps memorized. Of all the games I have ever played with him he always takes an AI cap by 3500 BC which I say tips the luck in his favor at that point. Despite all of my forum knowledge I cant guarantee that I will find a cap by 3500 every game like him. Generally if I beat morte, its because he walked up to my cap and settled 2 tiles from me with no gold so I get an early victory. Never beat him in a game that went past 2500 BC.

So I think the original post makes sense that we have found "most" of the tricks to this game, but as you said there will always be people like Morte who possess civ knowledge that you cant learn on the forums, like memorizing all maps.

[dukeblue1987]

There are definitely glitches that the majority of us do not know.

I think we may be near the finish when it comes to learning different strategies. However we are definitely not close to absolute perfection of those strategies.

[MadDjinn]

im still waiting for some one to work out a way to make the mongols the new america lol, imagine 30+ mogol cities , then tactically letting some get taken so you can take them back with double trade mwahhahahahaha.

i really hoped from day 1 there was some hidden thing that would make the mongols great.

that's not too hard. but it's not by settling your own cities. you don't get the extra trade if you settled the city.


I had ~12-15 cities when I Oxford bombers with them just after 0 AD in a tourney game against duke. It could have been sooner, but I went to Feud/religion first. no artifacts used.

It really depends on the map for them. 8-9 decent/semi-decent barbs makes them very much like the americans/chinese.

You can toss settlers at your opponents, but if they're 'good' they won't settle them in place for you. If it's the AI, they sometimes do, sometimes don't. but it's still not a great tactic since you need to wait for them to be there, meaning you could have used the extra trade/production during that time to win the game.

that, and there's a crappy network bug that causes a slowdown in framerate/playspeed until you kill the unit that stole the settler due to it always being shown where the settler was stolen, and invisible where it actually is.

edit:
As per the OP:

no, I don't support the statement. You can have all the knowledge you want, but until you actually put it in practise enough times, it won't help you much.

There are still minor things to learn that aren't in the general knowledge base, and they may prove to be the extra thing that helps drive more wins. (such as refining the expansion strat per civ as per thrasher's post).

[MorteEterna]

I played 3 games with Morte the other day, I have Most of the forum knowledge you are speaking of but there is one thing you leave out. Morte has all maps memorized. Of all the games I have ever played with him he always takes an AI cap by 3500 BC which I say tips the luck in his favor at that point. Despite all of my forum knowledge I cant guarantee that I will find a cap by 3500 every game like him. Generally if I beat morte, its because he walked up to my cap and settled 2 tiles from me with no gold so I get an early victory. Never beat him in a game that went past 2500 BC.

So I think the original post makes sense that we have found "most" of the tricks to this game, but as you said there will always be people like Morte who possess civ knowledge that you cant learn on the forums, like memorizing all maps.

Please, stop saying my best advantage is that I have memorized all the maps, it's like insulting me. I could play even in a map that I don't remember (and that happens), and I still do everything I would do, like taking capitals. The starting place also moves time to time, there should be like 8 place.

And if you don't trust me, we can play which scenario you want and see if something is different. I say it's not so important to know most of the maps, because I sometimes can't remember (at the start for example), and when I know it's one map and it is like 0 AD, it wouldn't help me so much. It's just "ok, I know this map, nothing else".

Skill is much more important. And also how to use these things, is important.

If you know 2+2= 4 but when some people ask you " 2 + 2 = ? " and you answer 3 or don't even answer, it means you don't know how to apply it. Maybe it is too hard to apply (it was a silly example), maybe you don't remember.

Maybe it sounds too arrogant, but I bet if there would be new maps every time, I would do the same things I do now, maybe a just a bit slower sometimes. All this because, as I said, I don't know every tile of the map, from the first turn. And some maps are even similar to others

[GrizzleyTigers4]

Please, stop saying my best advantage is that I have memorized all the maps, it's like insulting me. I could play even in a map that I don't remember (and that happens), and I still do everything I would do, like taking capitals. The starting place also moves time to time, there should be like 8 place.

And if you don't trust me, we can play which scenario you want and see if something is different. I say it's not so important to know most of the maps, because I sometimes can't remember (at the start for example), and when I know it's one map and it is like 0 AD, it wouldn't help me so much. It's just "ok, I know this map, nothing else".

Skill is much more important. And also how to use these things, is important.

If you know 2+2= 4 but when some people ask you " 2 + 2 = ? " and you answer 3 or don't even answer, it means you don't know how to apply it. Maybe it is too hard to apply (it was a silly example), maybe you don't remember.

Maybe it sounds too arrogant, but I bet if there would be new maps every time, I would do the same things I do now, maybe a just a bit slower sometimes. All this because, as I said, I don't know every tile of the map, from the first turn. And some maps are even similar to others

You misunderstood what I was saying. I was just saying that there is intangible knowledge and talent that you have that people cant get from the forums. I didnt mean thats all you do right; I was simply giving one example....... but Ill just keep my compliments to myself from now on if you are going to give analogies like "2+2=4" like Im some kind of moron, thats insulting.

[MorteEterna]

You misunderstood what I was saying. I was just saying that there is intangible knowledge and talent that you have that people cant get from the forums. I didnt mean thats all you do right; I was simply giving one example....... but Ill just keep my compliments to myself from now on if you are going to give analogies like "2+2=4" like Im some kind of moron, thats insulting.

That was an example, and it wasn't to you. I was just saying that if a person (not you), knows how to do one thing, but doesn't know how to apply it or doesn't remember.. Well, who cares? he doesn't know how to do it

And if you think I misunderstood you, then it's ok, but you could stop it, so I could understand with no more insults etc.. However, I'm sorry if you took it like an insult, you misunderstood, too. It seemed like you wanted to say that my only advantage is that I know the maps

[Hellogoodbye123]

when i meant knowledge, i also kind of meant "skill" because we know how to play pretty good..

if theres two players the one with more skills will win..

but lets not forget the different civs, the different human errors.. etc...

[Aheadatime]

I dont think weve learned everything at all, not even morte or p2m2. Theres much to learn, this games a giant math puzzle with a million outcomes. True, weve distinguished which routes are safer and obviously better than others, but we havent gone down every road yet. Thrasher said something earlier about mathimatically figuring out how many cities you would need in a given situation to go for a specific win etc, and i agree. Theres lots we havent figured out or managed to calculate yet, and if we had, you would see some guy go 700-0 without cheating due to just having the most perfect mind in the world for this game, figuring every outcome and deciding perfectly what to do/go for etc.

[synchrofan]

That was an example, and it wasn't to you. I was just saying that if a person (not you), knows how to do one thing, but doesn't know how to apply it or doesn't remember.. Well, who cares? he doesn't know how to do it

And if you think I misunderstood you, then it's ok, but you could stop it, so I could understand with no more insults etc.. However, I'm sorry if you took it like an insult, you misunderstood, too. It seemed like you wanted to say that my only advantage is that I know the maps

I guess I understand now why you didn't reply when I sent you a message asking you a question. If I can't apply what I read in your strat or remember it, then who cares? Right? I'm glad other people on here don't feel that way and take the time to explain something to me even if they think it is simple and they might be screaming inside their heads (how can this person not understand this). Thank you to all those people who help those of us trying to learn to play this game better.

[Hellogoodbye123]

I dont think weve learned everything at all, not even morte or p2m2. Theres much to learn, this games a giant math puzzle with a million outcomes. True, weve distinguished which routes are safer and obviously better than others, but we havent gone down every road yet. Thrasher said something earlier about mathimatically figuring out how many cities you would need in a given situation to go for a specific win etc, and i agree. Theres lots we havent figured out or managed to calculate yet, and if we had, you would see some guy go 700-0 without cheating due to just having the most perfect mind in the world for this game, figuring every outcome and deciding perfectly what to do/go for etc.

thats more math, than actually knowing how to play..

for example a calculus major who doesnt know how to play poker/texas could do much better than a guy who isnt in calculus and just knows all rules.. of the game

this means that ur individual knowledege will win you games.. AND thats what your talking about, im talking about knowing little secrets like a-dar, or toggle and settle.. or oxford bombers.. this can also win you your game..

for example you might have one turn to build a tank army to survive.. but bad news you only have 2 cities.. making a third one using the toggle and setttle would come in handy here.. and its different from knowing when you should of settled that city back in the past.. theres a difference

[Aheadatime]

thats more math, than actually knowing how to play..

for example a calculus major who doesnt know how to play poker/texas could do much better than a guy who isnt in calculus and just knows all rules.. of the game

this means that ur individual knowledege will win you games.. AND thats what your talking about, im talking about knowing little secrets like a-dar, or toggle and settle.. or oxford bombers.. this can also win you your game..

for example you might have one turn to build a tank army to survive.. but bad news you only have 2 cities.. making a third one using the toggle and setttle would come in handy here.. and its different from knowing when you should of settled that city back in the past.. theres a difference

Still.. math is very much a part of this game, and you cant have 'skill' without it. Take a player with great reflexes and battle tactics with NO math skills at all against a player with bad reflexes and great math skills and prediction abilities based on the math. The latter guy would win. Reminds me of Pedal, great at the math/calculations but a bit slow to the reflexes. Still wins most of his games and is currently top 5... so i fail to see how math isnt a part of skill.

[Hellogoodbye123]

Still.. math is very much a part of this game, and you cant have 'skill' without it. Take a player with great reflexes and battle tactics with NO math skills at all against a player with bad reflexes and great math skills and prediction abilities based on the math. The latter guy would win. Reminds me of Pedal, great at the math/calculations but a bit slow to the reflexes. Still wins most of his games and is currently top 5... so i fail to see how math isnt a part of skill.

yes i know, but math is not something you learn in this game.. we know how to add hammers.. multiply era cost rush.. but we apply to those things we already know.. like knowing things get expensive and "saving hammers" which is another technique used by many players.. i use every technique possible to win my games..

someone told me .. "you seem to always have tricks up your sleeve" which is true.. because i have from galley drop, to horse rush, cat/knight rush.. tanks.. bombers, battleships.. i have a lot.. and you can predict those by saving hammers everywhere, and rushing armies on one turn..

or doing tactics by attacking on 2 separate sides.. most players here comment on how he will defend a side he thinks the enemy is coming from.. this means they wont expect a player going around.. i was like them.. and suddenly my enemy that game galley drop 2 cities, flipped one, and took over delphi with cannon from knight templar. all in one turn he took over my whole empire.. i then learn new ways of attacking the enemy...learning dissabilities.. like the spanish inflation, the greek low culture, and other factors..

the tools that we use are all there, basically what im saying, is that there is not many more "tools" and "extra tactics" the intelligence of people maths will grow, but the "tools" im talking about are pretty much there..

[elthrasher]

I guess I understand now why you didn't reply when I sent you a message asking you a question. If I can't apply what I read in your strat or remember it, then who cares? Right? I'm glad other people on here don't feel that way and take the time to explain something to me even if they think it is simple and they might be screaming inside their heads (how can this person not understand this). Thank you to all those people who help those of us trying to learn to play this game better.

I don't know the nature of your communication with Morte, but if you aren't already aware, you should know that English isn't his first language. He does fairly well, but misunderstandings happen. He certainly has done quite a lot to help quite a few of us and is probably the earliest member of this board who was posting really good strats (not "build an archer army first, then a library") and is still around helping people.

A lot of the time if you have a question about a strat, it's best to just post it in that thread because then others can chime in.

[Hellogoodbye123]

A lot of the time if you have a question about a strat, it's best to just post it in that thread because then others can chime in.

no need.. i've been teaching her exclusive tactics.. im her personal teacher, teaching her 2 years worth in a couple of days

[MadDjinn]

no need.. i've been teaching her exclusive tactics.. im her personal teacher, teaching her 2 years worth in a couple of days

uhm...

[Aheadatime]

yes i know, but math is not something you learn in this game.. we know how to add hammers.. multiply era cost rush.. but we apply to those things we already know.. like knowing things get expensive and "saving hammers" which is another technique used by many players.. i use every technique possible to win my games..

someone told me .. "you seem to always have tricks up your sleeve" which is true.. because i have from galley drop, to horse rush, cat/knight rush.. tanks.. bombers, battleships.. i have a lot.. and you can predict those by saving hammers everywhere, and rushing armies on one turn..

or doing tactics by attacking on 2 separate sides.. most players here comment on how he will defend a side he thinks the enemy is coming from.. this means they wont expect a player going around.. i was like them.. and suddenly my enemy that game galley drop 2 cities, flipped one, and took over delphi with cannon from knight templar. all in one turn he took over my whole empire.. i then learn new ways of attacking the enemy...learning dissabilities.. like the spanish inflation, the greek low culture, and other factors..

the tools that we use are all there, basically what im saying, is that there is not many more "tools" and "extra tactics" the intelligence of people maths will grow, but the "tools" im talking about are pretty much there..

Well the greek culture and spanish inflation are both math, as are saving hammers. See, if you have a city with 3 pop on 2 sea tiles and 1 forest for x amount of turns, vs having it on 3 sea tiles until you get desired tech and then all hammers, these are math-based decisions that improve your overall game. Knowing when to switch to 1 food, 2 forest for expansion, knowing when to switch over to science, knowing the overflow and how to use it, knowing when to reach 105 science for oxford, knowing how to calculate possible GP based on latest techs researched, knowing battle odds, its all math.

I understand what youre saying and i agree to an extent, however i believe a players 'skill' is a combination of math skills and battle tactics, the latter is what youre basically referring to. Using 'The Art of War' as a guide, and mathematics as the fundamentals, a player can get really good at this game. However, just one or the other wont make you 'good'.

[Hellogoodbye123]

ok, i agree with you know.. and since you never said anything about learning.. there is little "new tactics" to be developed.. but math is well used like you said

[MorteEterna]

I guess I understand now why you didn't reply when I sent you a message asking you a question. If I can't apply what I read in your strat or remember it, then who cares? Right? I'm glad other people on here don't feel that way and take the time to explain something to me even if they think it is simple and they might be screaming inside their heads (how can this person not understand this). Thank you to all those people who help those of us trying to learn to play this game better.

This is a very arrogant post. I get a lot of messages every day in XBL and I have to answer them because in other way people would insult me probably. If I have read your question, I didn't remember to answer you, I usually answer every PM I get.

And maybe you don't know, but if you want to get something, your way, you aren't going to get anything. By being offensive against me, how would you expect me to answer you now? You could simply ask me again instead.

By the way, I see no PM from you.. And just to explain better, if one person doesn't understand something in my strategy, I would explain it, like I always do. What I meant by that post was different. I meant in one game

[synchrofan]

This is a very arrogant post. I get a lot of messages every day in XBL and I have to answer them because in other way people would insult me probably. If I have read your question, I didn't remember to answer you, I usually answer every PM I get.

And maybe you don't know, but if you want to get something, your way, you aren't going to get anything. By being offensive against me, how would you expect me to answer you now? You could simply ask me again instead.

By the way, I see no PM from you.. And just to explain better, if one person doesn't understand something in my strategy, I would explain it, like I always do. What I meant by that post was different. I meant in one game

I'm not sure what you took as me being arrogant. If I took what you said in that post differently then how you meant then it is a misunderstanding. I sent you a message you didn't reply (for whatever reason) I thought it was odd because someone who posts as many strats as you must want to share his knowledge. Then I see that post where you say well who cares.... That's when I thought ok that's why he didn't reply. I'm glad to hear you do help people and reply back. This isn't about me getting my way or trying to offend you at all. Only the person writing something knows exactly what they are trying to say. As with me reading your post and as with you reading mine, sometimes people take what is said a different way.

[MorteEterna]

I'm not sure what you took as me being arrogant. If I took what you said in that post differently then how you meant then it is a misunderstanding. I sent you a message you didn't reply (for whatever reason) I thought it was odd because someone who posts as much strats as you must want to share his knowledge. Then I see that post where you say well how cares.... That's when I thought ok that's why he didn't reply. I'm glad to hear you do help people and reply back.

You should know how bad it is to tell something to people, when you are not sure about it. Like telling a person "you are so bad!". In the moment that he knows he is not, he is going to become bad, or if he feels bad at the moment, he could just react bad to that person.

[HydroDragon]

You should know how bad it is to tell something to people, when you are not sure about it. Like telling a person "you are so bad!". In the moment that he knows he is not, he is going to become bad, or if he feels bad at the moment, he could just react bad to that person.

Says the guy who started his post with 'This is an arrogant post'.....

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Hellogoodbye123]

i dont think morte should have attacked her like that, she was only asking and assuming why he didnt reply to her messages.. no where was she being arrogant...

everytime we talk about morte, or he talks about himself, this word is always thrown into the field.. which i dont know if we or him know the meaning of that word anymore..

[Pedal2Metal]

is there anything more to learn? even though as time has proven there is, i think this is where it ends.....

"discuss"

I can say w/100% certainty that not every trick is public knowledge. Some are simply not suitable for public or private consumption. Some are just experience. It just can't all be written down. So no we are not at an end IMO. While I do agree the learning curve is leveling out & discoveries are slower, harder, more subtle, & less frequent, there are still some out there. For example, we still do not understand how GP are influenced/awarded yet we have anecdotal evidence there is something there. Lots of things fall into this category but the effort to distill the knowledge is very high & given we aren't going to gain immortality by doing so, few of us are willing to invest the effort in what in some cases may be a multi-month study worthy of a PhD dissertation.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[synchrofan]

I can say w/100% certainty that not every trick is public knowledge. Some are simply not suitable for public or private consumption. Some are just experience. It just can't all be written down. So no we are not at an end IMO. While I do agree the learning curve is leveling out & discoveries are slower, harder, more subtle, & less frequent, there are still some out there. For example, we still do not understand how GP are influenced/awarded yet we have anecdotal evidence there is something there. Lots of things fall into this category but the effort to distill the knowledge is very high & given we aren't going to gain immortality by doing so, few of us are willing to invest the effort in what in some cases may be a multi-month study worthy of a PhD dissertation.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

I hope you are right because that adds to the joy of playing the game, learning something new or discovering something new.

[MorteEterna]

i dont think morte should have attacked her like that, she was only asking and assuming why he didnt reply to her messages.. no where was she being arrogant...

everytime we talk about morte, or he talks about himself, this word is always thrown into the field.. which i dont know if we or him know the meaning of that word anymore..

It could be my fault, but I don't like when people talk bad about me. I can't see that PM and I don't remember any questions I didn't answer to, so if some people after that talk bad about me, maybe you understand, it is more than annoying.