Delta should NOT have taken his helmet off!

[Ga1Friday]

Yes it has been discussed before,
"How did Delta take his helmet off if he is grafted in to the suit?"

We know that he should have been grafted into the suit based on Suchong's diaries and the fact that Suchong died before other protector models were made.

But now I have proof that this whole helmet business is a narratological goof.

If Delta took his helmet off then, technically, all of the special ADAM that works as mind control should have come spilling out! The suit is filled with this ADAM to keep the Big Daddies somewhat drone like, and it probably also keeps them alive, gives them extra human strength, etc. Forget "How did Delta have his helmet on when he woke up" and start asking "Who refilled him with ADAM?"

The suits are filled with ADAM, that is what the yellow glow is. The Art Book confirms this.

So, off with the helmet=no ADAM = either
a)dead, and dead for good
b) alive and mind-control free but in a freaky suit

So any thoughts? I am open to being dis-proven.

[AK Downfall]

Yes it has been discussed before,
"How did Delta take his helmet off if he is grafted in to the suit?"

We know that he should have been grafted into the suit based on Suchong's diaries and the fact that Suchong died before other protector models were made.

But now I have proof that this whole helmet business is a narratological goof.

If Delta took his helmet off then, technically, all of the special ADAM that works as mind control should have come spilling out! The suit is filled with this ADAM to keep the Big Daddies somewhat drone like, and it probably also keeps them alive, gives them extra human strength, etc. Forget "How did Delta have his helmet on when he woke up" and start asking "Who refilled him with ADAM?"

The suits are filled with ADAM, that is what the yellow glow is. The Art Book confirms this.

So, off with the helmet=no ADAM = either
a)dead, and dead for good
b) alive and mind-control free but in a freaky suit

So any thoughts? I am open to being dis-proven.

I see a controdiction to your saying of Alpha Series and the special ADAM.

First off you say they are filled with the special ADAM and they are but one thing. If they are graphed then there would be no room to poor in the ADAM.

Because of the ADAM and no space it would mean that they couldnt be graphed because they would need the room for the ADAM to flow.

[Ga1Friday]

I see a controdiction to your saying of Alpha Series and the special ADAM.

First off you say they are filled with the special ADAM and they are but one thing. If they are graphed then there would be no room to poor in the ADAM.

Because of the ADAM and no space it would mean that they couldnt be graphed because they would need the room for the ADAM to flow.

It is both. Their bodies are grafted into the suit but the suit is also filled with ADAM, at least the helmet is. The helmet is bigger than a human skull, there is room.

[AK Downfall]

It is both. Their bodies are grafted into the suit but the suit is also filled with ADAM, at least the helmet is. The helmet is bigger than a human skull, there is room.

And how do you know that the head isn't graphed. You don't have any prooth to the matter

[Codex]

This is a very interesting point. I can only really counter the mind control goop issue.

So, Delta got hit with the Hypnotize plasmid right before he takes his helmet off. Therefore, he's under the hypno issues when the goop does glosh out. Thus why when he wakes up he has "free will" enough to complete tasks and find Eleanor. So, he's not got the goo any more, but the reason why he still does what Lamb says is because of the plasmid.

There is the issue with the grafting: it was never explained if they should be grafted or shouldn't be. I'll admit that here there is a small little plot hole where retconning in the Alpha series left a bit of an issue. I can't offer a plausible argument against it (maybe only the first ones were grafted, ie alpha through gamma, and in an attempt to reuse the suits they aren't grafted as much from Delta onwards?)

[mehe]

He's an Alpha series, they were a failed series but it just shows that they were less drastically mutilated than the new series.

[Ga1Friday]

And how do you know that the head isn't graphed. You don't have any prooth to the matter

You are right, I don't... but it does seem pretty straight forward in the art book. There must be some wiggle room in there, it isn't like they grafted both the front and back of his skull, no one's head is that big!

[Ga1Friday]

This is a very interesting point. I can only really counter the mind control goop issue.

So, Delta got hit with the Hypnotize plasmid right before he takes his helmet off. Therefore, he's under the hypno issues when the goop does glosh out. Thus why when he wakes up he has "free will" enough to complete tasks and find Eleanor. So, he's not got the goo any more, but the reason why he still does what Lamb says is because of the plasmid.

There is the issue with the grafting: it was never explained if they should be grafted or shouldn't be. I'll admit that here there is a small little plot hole where retconning in the Alpha series left a bit of an issue. I can't offer a plausible argument against it (maybe only the first ones were grafted, ie alpha through gamma, and in an attempt to reuse the suits they aren't grafted as much from Delta onwards?)

But the glowing yellow is the mind control goop. It is why big daddies glow. It is why the little sisters' eyes glow. Delta glows....

[O'Malley de Bough]

Where does anything say Big Daddy suits are filled with ADAM?

[Codex]

But the glowing yellow is the mind control goop. It is why big daddies glow. It is why the little sisters' eyes glow. Delta glows....

Does he glow? The only time I see him glowing is in the opening cut scene BEFORE he takes his helmet off. He's gray at the final cut scene. Where else is he glowing (other than promo pictures)?

Where does anything say Big Daddy suits are filled with ADAM?

The artbook.

[Ga1Friday]

Where does anything say Big Daddy suits are filled with ADAM?

It is in Deco Devolution that they are filled up with a yellow substance. I am making the assumption that this is ADAM because it is the same yellow glow seen in the Little Sisters' eyes

[SPINEBLOOD]

well delta was the furst big daddy right

[ManicSheep]

Who said the head was grafted to the suit? I always thought the main body of the person was grafted to the suit but how and why would you graft the head to the helmet?
Also I don't remember them saying the suit was filled with Adam. Maybe I just missed that?

[O'Malley de Bough]

It is in Deco Devolution that they are filled up with a yellow substance. I am making the assumption that this is ADAM because it is the same yellow glow seen in the Little Sisters' eyes

Well damn. That's just one of the many things that I will find out from other people who actually had the cash to buy the Special Edition. Rich bastards

Anywho Deco Devolution says that Big Daddies are filled with special ADAM, or is just one of the ideas?

[Codex]

Well damn. That's just one of the many things that I will find out from other people who actually had the cash to buy the Special Edition. Rich bastards

Anywho Deco Devolution says that Big Daddies are filled with special ADAM, or is just one of the ideas?

No, it says the glow from their helmets is a mind control goop that we are assuming to be made from ADAM. I see no reason for it not to be ADAM, personally.

[mehe]

Oh, I got this from the Bioshock wiki. Makes sense.

For easier interpretation, lights were added to the helmet to display what state of intention the Big Daddy is in

http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Daddy

[Ga1Friday]

Does he glow? The only time I see him glowing is in the opening cut scene BEFORE he takes his helmet off. He's gray at the final cut scene. Where else is he glowing (other than promo pictures)?.

Here you go. at about 4:10 we get proof that he is full of substance X.

Not to be confused with chemical X which would make him a Powerpuff girl.

EDIT:
In the same video you can see that nothing spills out of his helmet when he takes it off... though something should be spilling.....

[Codex]

Here you go. at about 4:10 we get proof that he is full of substance X.

Not to be confused with chemical X which would make him a Powerpuff girl.

EDIT:
In the same video you can see that nothing spills out of his helmet when he takes it off... though something should be spilling.....

Well damn. Now I think that's a gaff rather than a problem... Unless of course the mind control goop is just an idea they had? This is the first plot hole I subscribe to Kat. You're ruining Bioshock for me D:

[O'Malley de Bough]

No, it says the glow from their helmets is a mind control goop that we are assuming to be made from ADAM. I see no reason for it not to be ADAM, personally.

Oh, well everyone else was calling it "Special ADAM" so I just went along


Trololol....

[brendensavi]

Where does anything say Big Daddy suits are filled with ADAM?

Page 55 of Deco Devolution.

"Regular Big Daddies have this mind control goop, so when they're passive, it glows a yellowish-green and when they get angry, it glows red. The idea we had is that Player Daddy's mind control goop has been drained so the other Big Daddies are more drone-like, almost zombies but this guy is more spry - jumping around, thinking for himself - so he would be more upright and focused."

It's a good question. I really don't have much to say regarding it, to be honest. Other than that I agree entirely with Katmann's and Codex's theories.

[Ga1Friday]

Page 55 of Deco Devolution.

"Regular Big Daddies have this mind control goop, so when they're passive, it glows a yellowish-green and when they get angry, it glows red. The idea we had is that Player Daddy's mind control goop has been drained so the other Big Daddies are more drone-like, almost zombies but this guy is more spry - jumping around, thinking for himself - so he would be more upright and focused."

It's a good question. I really don't have much to say regarding it, to be honest. Other than that I agree entirely with Katmann's and Codex's theories.

Oh Codex don't let me ruin anything for you! Half the fun is coming up with off the wall theories to explain the plot holes!

I like the idea that the mind control goop had been drained, but we see that Delta is still glowing and we do not see it draining when he removes his helmet. Odd

[mehe]

Page 55 of Deco Devolution.

"Regular Big Daddies have this mind control goop, so when they're passive, it glows a yellowish-green and when they get angry, it glows red. The idea we had is that Player Daddy's mind control goop has been drained so the other Big Daddies are more drone-like, almost zombies but this guy is more spry - jumping around, thinking for himself - so he would be more upright and focused."

It's a good question. I really don't have much to say regarding it, to be honest. Other than that I agree entirely with Katmann's and Codex's theories.

So I guess this explains it?

[Codex]

Oh Codex don't let me ruin anything for you! Half the fun is coming up with off the wall theories to explain the plot holes!

I like the idea that the mind control goop had been drained, but we see that Delta is still glowing and we do not see it draining when he removes his helmet. Odd

Like I said, I really hope its just a continuity error. I was firmly behind the belief that he didn't have the goop (based on what it said in the art book specifically). Well... here, lets try this as an off the wall theory to explain it. What if the goop itself is colourless, and there are three lights inside the helmet to warn people when the Daddies are going to ker-stab them. So, Delta may have lost all the goop but he still has the coloured lights?

[Ga1Friday]

Like I said, I really hope its just a continuity error. I was firmly behind the belief that he didn't have the goop (based on what it said in the art book specifically). Well... here, lets try this as an off the wall theory to explain it. What if the goop itself is colourless, and there are three lights inside the helmet to warn people when the Daddies are going to ker-stab them. So, Delta may have lost all the goop but he still has the coloured lights?

But then the book would be wrong about the goop glowing...

[brendensavi]

I think the fact that Delta still has a yellowish glow is a bit of an oversight, as in all of the endings, Delta's helmet is colorless.

[Codex]

But then the book would be wrong about the goop glowing...

Well, why would the goop change colour that quickly? Heat activated stuff makes no sense. I'm down for believing in lightbulbs :S

[Ryan's number 1 fan]

Does he glow? The only time I see him glowing is in the opening cut scene BEFORE he takes his helmet off. He's gray at the final cut scene. Where else is he glowing (other than promo pictures)?



The artbook.

Yeah he glows I've got a poster of him and it's pretty glowey

[Crezth]

It is both. Their bodies are grafted into the suit but the suit is also filled with ADAM, at least the helmet is. The helmet is bigger than a human skull, there is room.

Since when is the helmet filled with ADAM? Source please.

[Evil Jeremy87]

Could the goop be drained once he starts to take off the helmet? Like if the people working on the Big Daddy's needed to take his helmet off for something and don't want the goop to spill out. So they made it that it will automatically drain once the helmet starts to come off.

Delta took his helmet off real fast so this may not be the case. So it's probably just a plot hole.

[Adam Addict L]

Since when is the helmet filled with ADAM? Source please.

Here you go:

Where does anything say Big Daddy suits are filled with ADAM?

The artbook.

It is in Deco Devolution that they are filled up with a yellow substance. I am making the assumption that this is ADAM because it is the same yellow glow seen in the Little Sisters' eyes

Page 55 of Deco Devolution.

"Regular Big Daddies have this mind control goop, so when they're passive, it glows a yellowish-green and when they get angry, it glows red. The idea we had is that Player Daddy's mind control goop has been drained so the other Big Daddies are more drone-like, almost zombies but this guy is more spry - jumping around, thinking for himself - so he would be more upright and focused."

[Virtues]

Ok so the title of the thread should be "Goop should be falling out of Delta's helmet."

Epic Fail on 2K's part.

[Z008MJ]

Hello! The Art Book is not canon!

[wodinoneeyex]

No, it says the glow from their helmets is a mind control goop that we are assuming to be made from ADAM. I see no reason for it not to be ADAM, personally.

Its actually that goop they put in Lava Lamps...

[Crezth]

Ahhh, I see.

Well even if the art book was canon, I don't think it's really a big fail. The hypnotize plasmid supercedes any goop and therefore Delta would still be under its effects, whether or not his helmet is on.

[MetroidJunkie2008]

Weren't the first Big Daddies given more free will since the bond with the little sister was meant to "encourage" them to protect them? I mean, if the Alpha Series had the goop and were constantly in a hypnotized state, I can't imagine it would be possible for them to go insane once their little sister died since the people controlling them can just get them to stop and then assign them new little sisters.

[temporaryplaceholder]

Contradicting evidence or not- the explanation I am going to stick with in my own head is as follows:

They're grafted into the suit and the suit only- not the helmet.
There is no goo. It was in the artbook as concepts, and brainstorming about how to go about designing a BD from the inside, but not included in any game- or trailer.
The lights were the "simple electronics" Gil mentioned installing for obvious reasons (to know when a BD had been enraged.)
And finally, hypnotise plasmid overrides any mental conditioning for the duration of the plasmid.

As for how he got "free will", well, his mental conditioning was:

Stay close to Eleanor or die. Half the plot revolves around that fact.
Protect Eleanor during combat. Again, some plot revolves around it (paediatric wards you fight off threats to Eleanor.)

None of that changes.

[mehe]

Is it really that big of a plot hole? Or seems to be...?

[Ga1Friday]

Hello! The Art Book is not canon!

Why wouldn't it be? It isn't cut content, it is the developers talking about how they made the game.

Also it just makes sense that the Big Daddies would be under some sort of mind control and also that they would have ADAM surging through them. The first game let us know that by telling us that the Bouncer has been so genetically modified that his head had been deformed, etc.

Oh, and for the record I don't think that this is an "epic fail" just an interesting plot hole.

[AK Downfall]

You are right, I don't... but it does seem pretty straight forward in the art book. There must be some wiggle room in there, it isn't like they grafted both the front and back of his skull, no one's head is that big!

First off. How do we know that in the those script scenes that was Delta. How do we not know if that was some of the first 3 Alpha Series

[Z008MJ]

Why wouldn't it be? It isn't cut content, it is the developers talking about how they made the game.

Also it just makes sense that the Big Daddies would be under some sort of mind control and also that they would have ADAM surging through them. The first game let us know that by telling us that the Bouncer has been so genetically modified that his head had been deformed, etc.

Oh, and for the record I don't think that this is an "epic fail" just an interesting plot hole.

1. Do you know how much pre-game stuff you can find? Do you consider the chipmunks acting as gatherers canon? Hell, i have heard BioShock originally took place on a Nazi Island focused on genetic science, before the Underwater City idea, is that canon to you too?

2. Big Daddieas are under mind control in the same way as Jack, genetically. Was Jack covered in ADAM goo?