Drop the LS/BD for Bioshock III

[Blue Lightning]

They were my least favorite part of Bioshock 1 and 2 really. I know I know, the "choice" of fighting them or not...by acceident or by design. Ok I admit that could be kinda cool. However, too many times they accendently were hit and came after me, and when I had no ammo! Plus the Big Daddys were loud and made the floor unrealistically shake real hard when they walked. They distracted the atmosphere. They were cool in the first one, but even by the "new one" in the second one, it was getting old.

I'm hoping in the 3rd, 2k concentrates on a carnival atmosphere plus splicers that can befriend you or at least choose not ot attack you, if you dont attack them. Splicers the smile and ask "what you looking at"? but dont always attack. Splicers can be the key if done right. And good level design trumps everything.

By leaving the BD and LS out of it, that would make the BD/LS thing in the first two Bioshocks more legendary.

Oh, and the big sisters that attacked you, leave them out too. They annoyed me in a big way. B3 can be a chance for 2k to go in a new direction!

[FernandoV]

I guess they'll just implement a mini-game where we beg the Little Sisters to let us take the slug out of her body.

You're basically asking them to take an iconic act out of the game. And the game is easy enough without these "friendly splicers".

[Crezth]

This might be the least popular view re: BioShock ever expressed in the history of forever.

[Adam Addict L]

[QUOTE=FernandoV;792045You're basically asking them to take an iconic act out of the game.[/QUOTE]

I think this says everything right here. ...I don't know how Little Sisters would be in B3...but Big Daddies are a Bioshock ICON...removing them would hurt the game more than help it...they are part of what MAKES Bioshock

[W164]

You're joking, right?

[Blue Lightning]

The whole bd/ls thing wasnt scary at all, not one bit. It only distracted. Look again at Kens original 9 minute walkthrough for the 2006 E3. After the beggining of the level, they didnt show anymore of the BD/LS. It was the level design and the splicers and the carnival atmosphere that made that walkthrough. To me the BD/LS thing is kinda childish (no offense), and it doesnt add much to the game in my opinion.

[Adam Addict L]

The whole bd/ls thing wasnt scary at all, not one bit. It only distracted. Look again at Kens original 9 minute walkthrough for the 2006 E3. After the beggining of the level, they didnt show anymore of the BD/LS. It was the level design and the splicers and the carnival atmosphere that made that walkthrough. To me the BD/LS thing is kinda childish (no offense), and it doesnt add much to the game in my opinion.

maybe it didn't show anymore...but the fact is Big Daddies have BECOME an ICON to the franchise...and for them to remove said icon would deal a heavy blow to Bioshock,and obviously they even WANTED BDs to be iconic,because they put on the Bioshock 1 COVER for crying out loud...they didn't put just a Little Sister..they didn't put Andrew Ryan..they didn't put Jack...they put what on the cover,folks? A BIG DADDY. Them being scary or not is just your(and anyone's else for that matter) opinion. No matter how many people may also think they aren't scary,it's still just an opinion,not a fact..and reguardless of them actually being scary or not,to take them out now is just a bad idea

[Codex]

I read: "Take one of the most iconic dynamics from the game and one of the most agressive enemies in it and trash them."

I respond: "Hah, next please."

I'm sorry, blue, but this... This is just... Wow. I actually don't know how to put into words how much I am laughing right now. Then again, a part of me goes "what if the next game is about Eleanor on the surface, how would they do the LS/BD thing then?"

I don't see it working if the story stays in Rapture, I don't see it "going in a new direction" if you trash one of the most iconic images in the game. Sorry.

[treyk93]

Two words: NO WAY.

[Adam Addict L]

"Take one of the most iconic dynamics from the game and one of the most agressive enemies in it and trash them."

I don't see it working, I don't see it "going in a new direction" if you trash one of the most iconic images in the game. Sorry.

my thoughts exactly

also:

Let's say Bioshock is a baby(and it is,it is the 2K team's baby)...now let's say that baby got hurt and needed to go the doctor. Is removing the Big Daddy fixing the baby/making the baby better? In my opinion NO,it is not. Rather,to do such a thing would be the doctor BUTCHERING the baby..and I SERIOUSLY doubt 2K would want to take such measures.

[cxa117]

I can get down with there being no more little sisters because they get like a thousand rescued every game (exaggeration of course), but Big Daddys need to stay in

[zombielace]

I can't imagine Bioshock without the bd/ls. They're just as important as the atmosphere and splicers. Also- how else would you get adam?

[Systemaddict]

And you'd get Adam from what...praying?

I think I understand part of where you're coming from, and I kinda like your emphasis on the Splicers. You're correct - done right and they can really be a creepy, intriguing and integral part to an excellent game, more so than they've been utilized to date.

But lets not kid here...there has been two true stars from the opening hour of the series; Rapture and Big Daddy.

To lose these would be insane. Both of them.

I think there needs or could be a change in approach though in how it's all done, and I'd even concede that you could change the harvest or rescue element and make it more engaging. But they all need to be there in some form.

[Z008MJ]

Why even discuss, it is obvious they should never ever be removed, changed or redesigned?

[Adam Addict L]

Why even discuss, it is obvious they should never ever be removed, changed or redesigned?

changed/redesigned maybe(and for me that's a BIG maybe because they are fine as is to me)...but NOT removed

[CMRankine]

Word. You know what else is cheesy? Plasmids. They don't even make sense! And all the politics, who cares. What Bioshock 3 should be is about Andrew Ryan's summer job at a carnival in the 30s, where you can go on the rides and some splicers will be there, and you can play the carnie games but if you miss you get bioshocked. That would be way cooler.

[IllusionOfLife]

I think this is more of a problem of you not 'getting' them then a problem with the actual game.

You say that Big Daddies and Little Sisters take away from the world of Rapture, I, and many others, say that they are at the very core of that world. In fact, if it weren't for Big Daddies and Little Sisters there wouldn't be BioShock. You addressed the fact that Ken kind of glossed over the Big Daddy in the first gameplay video, but really, he glossed over everything, that was the point, a brief overview of a piece of Rapture.

What many people don't seem to know is that when Ken was developing the idea for BioShock he didn't start with concepts of grand underwater cities or dystopian objectivist ideals. No, Ken started with a gameplay concept of creating a game with three unique types of AI that would react dynamically with the world and the player. Those three AI classes were the Drones (Splicers), the gatherers (Little Sisters), and the Protectors (Big Daddies). For as long as this has even been a concept Big Daddies and Little Sisters were at the core.

Yes, there can be some frustrations when a Big Daddy happens to walk into the middle of your fight and starts attacking you, but that just means you have to change your approach a little bit when that happens. In a way it helps with the feeling of unpredictability, where you have to keep an extra eye on your surroundings so you don't accidentally hose yourself.

Big Daddies and Little Sisters are not only the icons of the series, but they represent the very core of what BioShock is. Even the element of fear isn't as important as they are (BioShock 2 proved that). Just like Rapture itself, if you take out Big Daddies and Little Sisters the game ceases to be BioShock.

[DeliciousCake]

I refuse to ever buy a Bioshock game if it does not have Big Daddies and Little Sisters. It makes Bioshock.

[Daddy Is Strong!]

Response to this topic:

Lolwut?

This is like ripping out the HEART of BioShock....

Lets kick Plasmids next!

[Blue Lightning]

I'm just saying this: Im playing, soaking up the atmosphere and sound effects, and suddenly its ruined by the big dumb footsteps of the "big daddy". Moreover, its old now. Ok, its been played well in the first two, but now its time to drop it for part III. Makes it more legendary.

Part III could be about visiting Rapture 5 years later, and someone else took over. With no little sisters, they get theri adam soley from sea slugs, and then have to have it processed at a certain "lab" run by a crazy splicer. You have ot collect many sea slugs (giving us much outdoor time), and take it to the lab as well. You have to negotiate a deal with the splicer running the lab on the adam. In fact, some splicers in the game will attack, and some will ignore you. Some of those you can make "deals with"...and some will keep the bargin, and some will turn on you. Interesting gameplay.

Mabey they could use my idea about Leprchaun splicers or something similar to that.

Get rid of the Bd/LS thing, and you have a whole new game Introduce a whole new charachter. Stop using the same old stuff!

[Adam Addict L]

I'm just saying this: Im playing, soaking up the atmosphere and sound effects, and suddenly its ruined by the big dumb footsteps of the "big daddy". Moreover, its old now. Ok, its been played well in the first two, but now its time to drop it for part III. Makes it more legendary.

Part III could be about visiting Rapture 5 years later, and someone else took over. With no little sisters, they get theri adam soley from sea slugs, and
Get rid of the Bd/LS thing, and you have a whole new game Introduce a whole new charachter. Stop using the same old stuff!

it's NOT old and it's not dumb..,we've only had 2 Bioshocks so far when supposedly there are going to be 5 or 6(not sure) Bioshock games...if you really think that,then that's just your opinion,and NOT an opinion of the ENTIRE Bioshock fan-base...as already said by me as well as others here,to take out Bioshock ICON would not only be mess up the series,but the series wouldn't even BE Bioshock anymore! Why,they would have to call it "(something else/name OTHER THAN 'bio')shock''! Big Daddies are part of Rapture,and part of what makes Bioshock..well..Bioshock,and to remove those would ruin the game. As I said before...they probably WANTED Big Daddies to become an icon. Why do I say this? Because again. Who is on the cover of Bioshock 1,folks? NOT Andrew Ryan...NOT Jack...but rather...THE BIG DADDY. Bottom line = Bioshock + No Big Daddies = NOT
Bioshock!

And personally? I feel you should wait and see if the series makes it past a 3rd game,or if they even make a 3rd game and see whether not it works and if they stop there or not,whichever comes first...THEN start judging whether or not Big Daddies are quote ''old'' unquote. But right now? It's too early in the series for them to be ''old''.

[Zoobi]

Those "big dumb footsteps" are a PART of the atmosphere. I'm just going to go ahead and say that you don't understand what makes Bioshock, Bioshock. If you take out the Big Daddies and Little Sisters you myswell just create a whole new game with similar gameplay mechanics.

Also, your idea to go outside and collect seaslugs is utterly ridiculous. Yeah that sounds like a whole lot of fun "laugh". Even if Big Daddies and Little Sisters won't play a huge role in the 3rd installment, removing them completely is a horrible idea.

Going to have to agree with:

This might be the least popular view re: BioShock ever expressed in the history of forever.

and add to it that it's possibly the worst idea for a video game franchise ever conceived.

It would be like removing the G-man from the Half Life series or Master Chief out of the Halo series.

[Z008MJ]

It would be like removing the G-man from the Half Life series or Master Chief out of the Halo series.

Master Chief has already been removed, first in ODST and now Reach.

[I-ChooseTheImpossible]

Master Chief has already been removed, first in ODST and now Reach.

Better analagy, it would be like removing Grunts from Halo.

But serioulsy, no BD or LS in BioShock 3? WTF are you smoking? Can I have some? That is just, well it's the worst idea ever.

[Dr.BridgetteTenenbaum]

Response to this topic:

Lolwut?

This is like ripping out the HEART of BioShock....

Lets kick Plasmids next!

Then we will kick out Splicers and replace them with talking blades of grass

Guys seriously get a grip theres no way 2k would ever get rid of Ls/Bd because they are totally awesome

I would never play Bioshock or Borderlands ever ever again Hmm

[Dr.BridgetteTenenbaum]

I'm just saying this: Im playing, soaking up the atmosphere and sound effects, and suddenly its ruined by the big dumb footsteps of the "big daddy". Moreover, its old now. Ok, its been played well in the first two, but now its time to drop it for part III. Makes it more legendary.

Part III could be about visiting Rapture 5 years later, and someone else took over. With no little sisters, they get theri adam soley from sea slugs, and then have to have it processed at a certain "lab" run by a crazy splicer. You have ot collect many sea slugs (giving us much outdoor time), and take it to the lab as well. You have to negotiate a deal with the splicer running the lab on the adam. In fact, some splicers in the game will attack, and some will ignore you. Some of those you can make "deals with"...and some will keep the bargin, and some will turn on you. Interesting gameplay.

Mabey they could use my idea about Leprchaun splicers or something similar to that.

Get rid of the Bd/LS thing, and you have a whole new game Introduce a whole new charachter. Stop using the same old stuff!

Sorry for double posting but, SERIOUSLY WTF !!!!! I dont think you should even been on 2k forums, You are the Weakest Link GOODBYE

[JTaylor]

I can see it now, the cover for Bioshock 3. Just a black background with the words "Bioshock 3".

[Dr.BridgetteTenenbaum]

I can see it now, the cover for Bioshock 3. Just a black background with the words "Bioshock 3".

I can imagine that lol, on the last 2 covers for bioshock have had Bd/ls on them lol

[Zoobi]

Master Chief has already been removed, first in ODST and now Reach.

K well, I don't play xbox so I wouldn't know that but the point still stands, removing iconic characters is a BAD idea.

[Z008MJ]

K well, I don't play xbox so I wouldn't know that but the point still stands, removing iconic characters is a BAD idea.

Should be true, ODST was disliked, so every main character in Reach looks like MC.

[BioSD]

but without BD's no LS but without LS no ADAM without ADAM no rapture without Rapture no BIOSHOCK why why oh why

[temporaryplaceholder]

I'm hoping in the 3rd, 2k concentrates on a carnival atmosphere plus splicers that can befriend you or at least choose not ot attack you, if you dont attack them. Splicers the smile and ask "what you looking at"? but dont always attack. Splicers can be the key if done right. And good level design trumps everything.

This is the only part of your idea I like.

It did seem a bit unrealistic to me of both games to have SO few splicers who were nice. Sure, they're crazed, insane, desperate and given reason to hate you... but just a few here and there that were less violent, un-phased by your presence, or possibly still crazy but in a less violent way would have made for much interesting events.

But Big Daddy/Little Sister are what sets Rapture apart. They're pretty much essential cornerstones of what makes Bioshock... Bioshock. They have to stay.

[PoeticMadnesss]

I've seen many horrible ideas regarding the third Bioshock in the past few months, but I have to say, this is the worst.

You're removing an iconic figure from the BioShock universe, along with an iconic gameplay feature. Tell me, what the hell would we fight as a replacement? Are you suggesting that in the next game we be a Sea Slug, and have Splicers be boss battles? Great idea. Big Daddies are there for a reason; because they're stronger than normal splicers.

Yes, Brutes are a stronger version of splicers that can easily replace Big Daddies, but honestly, it wouldn't make any sense. That would drop the current splicer levels down to unimaginably low levels, and there would be even fewer Brutes around. Are you suggesting, if we kept the game in the sense of reality, that we walk around in the third game, and maybe run into seven splicers per level with one Brute? Come on.

Keeping them in the game not only for gameplay purposes, but for storlyine and realistic purposes makes sense. It's completely possible for them to exist and keep the flow of Rapture alive, especially since they're the ones that REPAIR Rapture. One of the removed audio diaries, which I believe really should have been kept:

Julianne Corona - Too Dumb To Die
"Little Sisters are all gone, I ain't seen one since ____ knows when. Big Daddys still wandering around, keeping busy. I see a leak spring in a window, then one of the big oafs wanders on by and seals it up, like clockwork. If it weren't for them, Rapture would be completely flooded for years, I figure. Big, dumb animals...why can't you just let it end."

It makes no sense for them to be gone. It says right there: No Big Daddies, no Rapture. End of story.

[BioSD]

I've seen many horrible ideas regarding the third Bioshock in the past few months, but I have to say, this is the worst.

You're removing an iconic figure from the BioShock universe, along with an iconic gameplay feature. Tell me, what the hell would we fight as a replacement? Are you suggesting that in the next game we be a Sea Slug, and have Splicers be boss battles? Great idea. Big Daddies are there for a reason; because they're stronger than normal splicers.

Yes, Brutes are a stronger version of splicers that can easily replace Big Daddies, but honestly, it wouldn't make any sense. That would drop the current splicer levels down to unimaginably low levels, and there would be even fewer Brutes around. Are you suggesting, if we kept the game in the sense of reality, that we walk around in the third game, and maybe run into seven splicers per level with one Brute? Come on.

Keeping them in the game not only for gameplay purposes, but for storlyine and realistic purposes makes sense. It's completely possible for them to exist and keep the flow of Rapture alive, especially since they're the ones that REPAIR Rapture. One of the removed audio diaries, which I believe really should have been kept:


It makes no sense for them to be gone. It says right there: No Big Daddies, no Rapture. End of story.

thank you

[Supercharge]

bioshock 1 and 2 are the best examples of games based on morality and emotional bonds ever

scarey? possibly, but that's not what the BD+LS are about, they are complete opposites together in a dead city. the big daddy isn't aggressive and it's more about the challenge. the awesome might of the big daddies. it gives them personality, they dont care about killing and destruction, all they care about is the little girl at their side. it's a great concept that works.

and little sisters, you will never find a more difficult moral choice in any game. some people dont mind, but i know plenty of people who feel actual guilt at harvesting or just cant. they know it's just a game, and that's what makes it apsolutley incredible. teenage boys who would blow up cities, maim thousands..brought to their knees by a little girl

they are bioshock, any game can have some huge scarey creature, but what big daddies and little sisters have is a story, they are part of rapture, they are part of bioshock. you cant have one without the other

[BioSD]

bioshock 1 and 2 are the best examples of games based on morality and emotional bonds ever

scarey? possibly, but that's not what the BD+LS are about, they are complete opposites together in a dead city. the big daddy isn't aggressive and it's more about the challenge. the awesome might of the big daddies. it gives them personality, they dont care about killing and destruction, all they care about is the little girl at their side. it's a great concept that works.

and little sisters, you will never find a more difficult moral choice in any game. some people dont mind, but i know plenty of people who feel actual guilt at harvesting or just cant. they know it's just a game, and that's what makes it apsolutley incredible. teenage boys who would blow up cities, maim thousands..brought to their knees by a little girl

they are bioshock, any game can have some huge scarey creature, but what big daddies and little sisters have is a story, they are part of rapture, they are part of bioshock. you cant have one without the other

So buatyful *CRYING&*

[IllusionOfLife]

Sorry for double posting but, SERIOUSLY WTF !!!!! I dont think you should even been on 2k forums, You are the Weakest Link GOODBYE

Ok, I'm sorry for backseat modding, but can we please discuss why we think this is or isn't a good proposal without totally flaming BlueLightning. You may disagree with what he has to say but his opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

Can we all please take the time to explain why you think the idea is a bad one rather than just being a jerk?

[Dr.BridgetteTenenbaum]

Ok, I'm sorry for backseat modding, but can we please discuss why we think this is or isn't a good proposal without totally flaming BlueLightning. You may disagree with what he has to say but his opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

Can we all please take the time to explain why you think the idea is a bad one rather than just being a jerk?

Sorry i've had a ruff day today, i apoligize to BlueLightning and totally agree that it is his opinion, as i said i've had a ruff day today ( i got dumped ) and i hope he accepts my apoligy

[rchris48]

*whiny voice* "But I like the BD and LS you CAN"T take them away!!!".... not so hot on the Big Sisters but hey, I'll take um.

I am very interested in seeing what the storyline will be for BS3. It' seemed pretty wrapped up for me at the end of BS2. I am hoping the writers don't continue beyond the BS2 timeline. I would like to see, if possible, prior to 1959 or a side story within the period between BS1 and BS2.

[mehe]

You're the first one I ever seen to say this thing. But NO.
The little sisters and big daddies are extremely important when going into the story, leaving them out is a setup for disaster. Plus for me, they neevr got old and their concept is GENIUS. Plus LS' are cute.