2K is breaking their own license agreement

[BioshockClassAction]

The end user license agreement says I have a license to run BioShock on 1 PC of my choosing at a time.

They are violating their own EUL by not letting it run by not letting it install more than 2 times.

It doesn't matter if I install it one time or a hundred times, on one PC or 100 PC's that I own. I can only run one copy of BioShock at a time (which is fine and what the EUL says).

If you uninstall and reinstall more than 2 times ON THE SAME PC it also doesnt' work. Don't let them tell you otherwise. Either they are knowingly telling you a falsehood, or they didn't bother to try it themselves and see it doesn't work.

2K support is also not supporting the product, further violating the EUL. They said there is a 90 day warranty on the product. 2K support just fob you off to Securerom support. Securerom support is only slightly more helpful here is their stock answer:

"We're working with the software publisher, 2K Games, on a strategy to deal with this issue"

At least they are willing to admit there is an issue which is a whole lot more forthcoming than 2K Games.

[HykCraft]

You obviously don't read any posts around here. This issue was clarified a day ago and fixed. Once you install, you give a token to SecuRom. Once you uninstall properly, you get that token back and THEN you can reinstall on another system or the same system.

[Kursa]

You obviously don't read any posts around here. This issue was clarified a day ago and fixed. Once you install, you give a token to SecuRom. Once you uninstall properly, you get that token back and THEN you can reinstall on another system or the same system.

unfortunately that doesn't work

And what happens if you have a virus and have to uninstall through non conventional means? I.e, forced format, etc? What then?

[irrationallevine]

I've followed up on the circular email with securom and we are working on this issue. I agree, it sucks, and we need to get that sorted.

I've been told by 2k that we will.

-Ken

[toolio]

I've followed up on the circular email with securom and we are working on this issue. I agree, it sucks, and we need to get that sorted.

I've been told by 2k that we will.

-Ken

Amen! /cheer

[HykCraft]

Thank you Ken. I sent a FR to your GT over XBL, but you still haven't accepted. =(

[garath]

You obviously don't read any posts around here. This issue was clarified a day ago and fixed. Once you install, you give a token to SecuRom. Once you uninstall properly, you get that token back and THEN you can reinstall on another system or the same system.

Who doesn't read posts? Apparently that does not work. 2 installs and you're done - uninstall or not.

[Kursa]

I've followed up on the circular email with securom and we are working on this issue. I agree, it sucks, and we need to get that sorted.

I've been told by 2k that we will.

-Ken

Thanks for a response. Just remember, the best thing you can do is get rid of securom all together. I mean....the game was already cracked last night...so you are sorta paying a company money to protect your game from the legitimate players (us) now versus the pirates.

Kind of ironic if you ask me.

I do hope you didn't sign a contract with the securom goons. Because the services you are paying them to protect your game was rendered useless as of 11:30 CST last night. I mean, was it worth it? Worth upsetting thousands of people just to keep you game hack free for 42 hours?

[BioShockWins]

I've followed up on the circular email with securom and we are working on this issue. I agree, it sucks, and we need to get that sorted.

I've been told by 2k that we will.

-Ken

To all of those who've been calling me a ☺☺☺☺ head for the last few days, I believe a told you so is in order?

Geez kids, why wouldn't they try to fix this? Ken obviously has pasion for his 'baby'. I don't think he'll let it go down the crappy just like that.

[HykCraft]

Does not work? I've tried and tested this out because I was curious and it worked for me. Thank you very much.

[Obturator]

You obviously don't read any posts around here. This issue was clarified a day ago and fixed. Once you install, you give a token to SecuRom. Once you uninstall properly, you get that token back and THEN you can reinstall on another system or the same system.

Nothing has been fixed. Read some of the dozens of posts where peopel cant get credit for uninstalling. Or even better go on over to some of the video game review sites that are having the same problem.

[Kursa]

Does not work? I've tried and tested this out because I was curious and it worked for me. Thank you very much.

well, then you are an anomoly

[Dimensio]

You obviously don't read any posts around here. This issue was clarified a day ago and fixed. Once you install, you give a token to SecuRom. Once you uninstall properly, you get that token back and THEN you can reinstall on another system or the same system.

Pot, kettle, black.

Had YOU been reading any of the forum posts here, you would have seen that uninstalling the game does NOT allow for subsequent activations. 2k lied about this, and it's been rather clearly exposed.

[Dimensio]

well, then you are an anomoly

No, what is happening is that a few people are installing, activating and then uninstalling and reinstalling on the same system, with the same Windows installation. It's not that uninstalling actually does anything with respect to SecuROM, it's just that contacting the server causes the server to recognize the system as one that was activated previously, and it allows activation of the game.

[Obturator]

No, what is happening is that a few people are installing, activating and then uninstalling and reinstalling on the same system, with the same Windows installation. It's not that uninstalling actually does anything with respect to SecuROM, it's just that contacting the server causes the server to recognize the system as one that was activated previously, and it allows activation of the game.

So thats what PC gamer did huh?

//http://www.pcgamer.com/

[capnhowdy]

SO I had a forced format because Bioshock crashed my system (thanks to securom btw) the first time I installed it. So how do I get my token back then smart guys? Securom "call 2k" 2k "call securom". I have a good key for the moment so non issue NOW. But next month when I get my biyearly bonus at work? goodbye outdated PC hello overhauled pimp rig. Will it work then? 99% of people who have tried so far say no. Hopefully it gets fixed by then. Hopefully I can get past the splash screen without it crashing before then also. But on the upside..... The icon is pretty to look at while I twiddle my thumbs and cry.

[Pas De Charge]

To all of those who've been calling me a ☺☺☺☺ head for the last few days, I believe a told you so is in order?

Geez kids, why wouldn't they try to fix this? Ken obviously has pasion for his 'baby'. I don't think he'll let it go down the crappy just like that.

Youre still a ☺☺☺☺ head, this just means that the game will install at 2 machines at a time WITH securom. It doesnt solve ALL the issues it just lets people who could actually play the game but wanted to, not the people who refuse to use drm

[Dimensio]

So thats what PC gamer did huh?

//http://www.pcgamer.com/

No. Dan clearly stated that he installed, and subsequently uninstalled, the game from two computers in his workplace and then was unable to activate the game following installation on his computer at home.

[BioshockClassAction]

There is 2 separate issues here

1. Legal issue: Securom/2K Games mechanism for allowing the game to be installed on only 2 machines is a violation of the End User License with the customer. Plan and simple. You can't restrict it to 2 machines or 100 machines. The license says I can run 1 copy of the machine at 1 time. If I install on 100 PC's and register all 100 I am within my rights as longs as I play on just 1 PC at a time with the original DVD.


2. Technical issue: Securom/2K Games mechanism is also defective. If for the sake of argument we admit that 2K Games limits it to 2 machines, that mechanism is broken. 2K Games on this forum & elsewhere has been passing out disinformation that you can just uninstall the game to get one of your activation keys back -- you can't. You CANNOT move the game from one machine to another by uninstalling on the first machine and reinstalling on the 2nd machine.

If I format my disk, if I upgrade, if I restore from a backup, or just upgrade to a complete new system I cannot take the game with me.

[mjdalways]

I copied this from Steam's Bioshock manual:

LICENSE: Subject to this Agreement and its terms and conditions, LICENSOR hereby grants you the non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to use one copy of the Software for your personal use on a single console. The Software is being licensed to you and you hereby acknowledge that no title or ownership in the Software is being transferred or assigned and this Agreement should not be construed as a sale of any rights in the Software. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are reserved by LICENSOR and, as applicable, it licensors.

The way I read it is it could very well be interpreted as only being able to install one machine.

In my opinion if they provide the following fixes, they will be allowing the EULA but still not making most of the people happy:

1) Ensure that a true uninstall puts back any install tokens.
2) Allow people to call Securom (or 2K) and reactivate their tokens due to hardware/virus type issues - however how they handle this is ultimately up to them - they could ask for any amount of proof or blacklist people as they see fit.

It will stop more than two uses, but as long as I can reinstall and reactivate when its not my fault I will be somewhat happy.

[nattylife]

If you uninstall and reinstall more than 2 times ON THE SAME PC it also doesnt' work. Don't let them tell you otherwise. Either they are knowingly telling you a falsehood, or they didn't bother to try it themselves and see it doesn't work.

levine has posted that this is an issue and is being looked at. the way its supposed to work is the way they said. you get 2 total installs. when you install once, you get like a securom token, when you uninstall it, you get that token back totalling up to 2 tokens per-se.

the fact is, is that its currently bugged right now. it works for some people and it doesnt work for others. same with the game itself, its a launch title, it has bugs.

did they lie about this? no. its an issue that needs to be addressed.

i worked on an application for a customer that needs to process sales files from their customers and process them into a database. 1 day it didnt work the right way and sales files were not processed correctly. did i lie to my customer about the process and what should happen? no, it did what it was supposed to up to an unforeseeable point. it had a bug. it got fixed a few days later and everything is alright.

[wombat778]

The way I read it is it could very well be interpreted as only being able to install one machine.

I agree with your reading.

Also, and more importantly, EVEN IF you interpret the EULA to give you a right to reinstallations on unlimited machines, it says nothing about how 2K has to go about giving you that right. 2K has never argued that you cannot install it on unlimited machines, just that the automatic activation won't work with more than 2. If you exceed 2, you are supposed to contact 2K/securom (still unclear) to get more activations. IMHO this would certainly be enough to eliminate any merit in OPs argument.

[Obturator]

levine has posted that this is an issue and is being looked at. the way its supposed to work is the way they said. you get 2 total installs. when you install once, you get like a securom token, when you uninstall it, you get that token back totalling up to 2 tokens per-se.

the fact is, is that its currently bugged right now. it works for some people and it doesnt work for others. same with the game itself, its a launch title, it has bugs.

did they lie about this? no. its an issue that needs to be addressed.

i worked on an application for a customer that needs to process sales files from their customers and process them into a database. 1 day it didnt work the right way and sales files were not processed correctly. did i lie to my customer about the process and what should happen? no, it did what it was supposed to up to an unforeseeable point. it had a bug. it got fixed a few days later and everything is alright.

They flat our denied that these problems were ever existing yesterday and until pcgamer got hit they hadnt said a thing acknowledging it. Once someone reputable was hit I guess then it was time to acknowledge the problem.

[bart122580]

What happens if you uninstall offline? What if you just reformat your computer without uninstalling?

[Dimensio]

What happens if you uninstall offline? What if you just reformat your computer without uninstalling?

The same thing that happens if you uninstall while your computer has an Internet connection.

[BlackDove]

I've followed up on the circular email with securom and we are working on this issue. I agree, it sucks, and we need to get that sorted.

I've been told by 2k that we will.

-Ken

Ehh Ken, that's not the part that sucks about this whole arrangment. The whole arrangment is what sucks.

[BioshockClassAction]

"use one copy of the Software for your personal use on a single console."

That means I can install it as many times or different places as I wish but I can only use one copy at a time on one console. If I go upstairs I can run it on the PC upstairs. If I go downstairs I can run it on the PC downstairs. If I run my laptop, I can run BioShock on my laptop. If I want to use the PC in the basement I can run it there.

I have a single use license and that license moves with me wherever I take the BioShock DVD.

It has nothing to do with where the product was installed or how many times it was installed.

[Hiromoon]

Well, that'd be debatable in a court of law, since it's still vague enough to mean a "single" console.

[BioshockClassAction]

I agree with your reading.

Also, and more importantly, EVEN IF you interpret the EULA to give you a right to reinstallations on unlimited machines, it says nothing about how 2K has to go about giving you that right. 2K has never argued that you cannot install it on unlimited machines, just that the automatic activation won't work with more than 2. If you exceed 2, you are supposed to contact 2K/securom (still unclear) to get more activations. IMHO this would certainly be enough to eliminate any merit in OPs argument.

2K Games has not given me that right that is in the license -- therefore, they have violated the EULA. This is obvious on the face of it.

I did contact both 2K and Securom and NEITHER of them has a granted me my rights under the EULA.

Some of you seem to act like the $50 for BioShock is a long loan to 2K and they will pay us back with a working game whenever they get around to it. Well I've got news for you: this is not a demo, this is not a Beta program, it is production software for which I paid the full retail price at a retail store.

The automatic activation does not work on even 2 machines. You can use up all the keys just on 1 machine. And when you call up 2K Games support they do nothing to resolve the problem, except pass the buck to Securom their subcontractor.

[Obturator]

Ehh Ken, that's not the part that sucks about this whole arrangment. The whole arrangment is what sucks.

He is getting good at dodging actual concerns of customers.

[gotspoon]

There is 2 separate issues here

1. Legal issue: Securom/2K Games mechanism for allowing the game to be installed on only 2 machines is a violation of the End User License with the customer. Plan and simple. You can't restrict it to 2 machines or 100 machines. The license says I can run 1 copy of the machine at 1 time. If I install on 100 PC's and register all 100 I am within my rights as longs as I play on just 1 PC at a time with the original DVD.


2. Technical issue: Securom/2K Games mechanism is also defective. If for the sake of argument we admit that 2K Games limits it to 2 machines, that mechanism is broken. 2K Games on this forum & elsewhere has been passing out disinformation that you can just uninstall the game to get one of your activation keys back -- you can't. You CANNOT move the game from one machine to another by uninstalling on the first machine and reinstalling on the 2nd machine.

If I format my disk, if I upgrade, if I restore from a backup, or just upgrade to a complete new system I cannot take the game with me.

Ummm... yes you can move the install from one machine to the other after uninstalling from another. because of all of the sensless ranting I decided to test it out.

Installed Bioshock on my main machine, installed it on my second machine, uninstalled it from second machine, and installed on laptop. uninstalled it from laptop and installed it on my server, uninstalled it from my server and put it back on my second machine. In all cases the game was playable.

If you somehow get borked while DL'ing porn torrents and you need to do a restore to a point before bioshock was installed, or had to reinstall completely, then yes you lose a token. What you then have to do is send a nice little email containing the circumstances under which you lost your token along with proof of purchase and activation key. Then you get another token assinged to your key.

It's not all that difficult and 90% of what i've read is all speculation and bandwagon riders screaming foul. If people are formatting their machines because of a CTD, they need an education. If you are trying to overclock your machine after installing the game, then you had best better make a restore point, and learn how to recover it from DOS mode in case your cook your registry. Then you don't have to worry about losing tokens as much. If your house burns down and you lose your activation key, DVD, and machines it was installed on... then i'd say you have a lot more things to worry about than playing games, and should file the extra $50 loss along with everything else with your insurance company.

As for suing? read the EULA, and read it subjectively. They are not in violation of their own agreement.

"Subject to this Agreement and its terms and conditions, LICENSOR hereby grants you the non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to use one copy of the Software for your personal use on a single home or portable computer."

You agree not to:...
"(d) Except as otherwise specifically provided by the Software or this Agreement, use or install the Software (or permit others to do same) on a network, for on-line use, or on more than one computer, computer terminal, or workstation at the same time;"


I think that pretty much sums it up. Securom giving you 2 installs falls under the "Except as otherwise specifically provided by the Software" part of the EULA.

I understand the situation at the root is essentially people being pissed that they pay for something today that has to be patched in order to be played at some point in the future. I agree that it is wrong of developers to put us in situations where you pre-order or buy something early and run into tons of problems. But I am also sympathetic and know that there are so many thousands of different configurations and programs available that can interfere with the game, there is no way to account for all of that pre-release.

I do feel that some sort of return policy should be in place, especially when anti-piracy becomes so invasive as to change your machine. If it supposedly can't be installed and run without the disk then they should be confident in giving you a refund for a returned disk and key. But retailers still hold on to the no return policy because so many people would buy, copy, then return a fully working game in order to get a freebie.

Most of the time I resort to waiting a month or so to get the feedback from the community on a new release, then decide if it's worth it. Bioshock though was one I had to have now. It works fine for me, so I guess I am lucky. But I have had games not work, several in fact. I have successfully returned opened software as well, but you have to prepare, have proof that the software is defective and not the medium in which it's contained. Only then do you stand a chance. Most of the time a patch comes out fairly quick that fixes the problem.

Should game publishers be more accountable for pushing release dates and forcing unfinished products on the market so they can cut dev staff to “maintenance” numbers? Yes I think they should, but how? If you have an open return policy how many dishonest people will return the game after they beat it to get their money back? How many people will return a game after copying it? Sadly many people would and that is why things are the way they are. The honest people suffer with broken installs and games that are incompatible, while the thieves still make their copies, make their cracks, and continue making it hard for everyone else.

This sadly is why so many PC devs have sold out to console conformity. It allows them to build a game with set machine specs in mind, with little to no room for variance.

If you try to sue them, it is your right, but be prepared to deal with the consequences. It’s not a free ride to the refund line. Even if a number of people win, it won’t change things, except perhaps leave a foul taste in publishers/devs mouths regarding PC game development. The root of the problem is piracy, and that is why you can’t get a refund. If none of the media could be duplicated you’d be able to get a refund no problem.

Take this post however you like, I am stating obvious facts and flaws. I just don't see how picketing for a law suit is going to do you any good when the cost of the suit exceeds the monetary compensation you are entitled to.

[wombat778]

2K Games has not given me that right that is in the license -- therefore, they have violated the EULA. This is obvious on the face of it.

I did contact both 2K and Securom and NEITHER of them has a granted me my rights under the EULA.

How much time have you given them to sort out your activation issue? It can't be more than 2 days.

Unless the EULA specifies a time, a court would likely interpret that they have a "reasonable" amount of time in which fix your activation issue. While a "reasonable" time is not defined, it would usually be something like 10 days or 30 days, certainly not 2 days. Sorry, but you really have no leg to stand on here. If in 30 days you still cannot play the game, then you _might_ have a case (but still not much of one).

[Konrad]

Securom is nothing but trouble.
Honest to god, if they went out of business and everyone there was unemployed I would happy.
Aside from this issue, Empire at War has had serious issues because of Securom.
If you had a program such as Cyberdaemon INSTALLED on your machine, nevermind running, you can't run EaW. I had my disc in the drive, patched, ready to go. Legal copied purchased at the store. And I get a wonderful message from Securom telling me I'm a pirate and the copy installed was pirated. At least, that's what it appeared to say.

Securom can suck it... 2k.
If you want your customers, ditch them. Take as long as you need, but write that ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺tery "protection" out of your game that ONLY HURTS PEOPLE WHO BUY IT.
The ONLY time copy protection hurts the pirate is.. well. It doesn't.
Ever.

[greylantern]

To all of those who've been calling me a ☺☺☺☺ head for the last few days, I believe a told you so is in order?

Geez kids, why wouldn't they try to fix this? Ken obviously has pasion for his 'baby'. I don't think he'll let it go down the crappy just like that.

Exactly, as much as I feel sorry for myself right now with a copy of bioshock unwrapped waiting to be sent back, I feel far more sorry for Levine and co who just wanted to make an amazing game for PC users. It's the publishers and the non creatives who ☺☺☺☺ things up every time.

[Hiromoon]

Why are you sending it back?

[BioshockClassAction]

Gotspoon I sent securom a mail and they did not do anything they did not reactivate my keys. So, nice try.

[Hiromoon]

Thought about calling them?

+1-866-734-3232

[BioshockClassAction]

Thought about calling them?

+1-866-734-3232

I called them .. they do not answer the phone. It is a recorded message.

They responded to my email saying we are working with 2K the publisher for a way to fix it and we'll get back to you.

they did not reactive my game. So 2K support lied outright. They said send an email to support@securom.com and they will unlock it. They did not.

[Hiromoon]

Hmm.... Interesting. Lemme give them a call.

[Hiromoon]

Okay, yes, they have the answering machine answering that number... did you leave them a message and your email address as they requested?