Am i missing something here? Did i get a rootkit on my vista x64 innstallation when i installed bioshock? You gotta be kidding right? No warnings nada...
I thought we where done with rootkits after the sony scandale. If I got a rootkit do AVG rootkit remover remove it?
Microsoft Certified System Engineer.
There isn't any reference to securom in the EULA.Originally Posted by shodanjr_gr
The EULA:
YOUR USE OF THIS SOFTWARE IS SUBJECT TO THIS LIMITED SOFTWARE WARRANTY AND LICENSE AGREEMENT (THE “AGREEMENT”) AND THE TERMS SET FORTH BELOW. THE “SOFTWARE” INCLUDES ALL SOFTWARE INCLUDED WITH THIS AGREEMENT, THE ACCOMPANYING MANUAL (S), PACKAGING AND OTHER WRITTEN, SOFTWARE, FILES, ELECTRONIC OR ON-LINE MATERIALS OR DOCUMENTATION, AND ANY AND ALL COPIES OF SUCH SOFTWARE AND ITS MATERIALS. BY OPENING THE SOFTWARE, INSTALLING,AND/OR USING THE SOFTWARE AND ANY OTHER MATERIALS INCLUDED WITH THE SOFTWARE, YOU HEREBY ACCEPT THE
TERMS OF THIS LICENSE WITH TAKE-TWO INTERACTIVE SOFTWARE, INC.
LICENSE.
Subject to this Agreement and its terms and conditions, LICENSOR hereby grants you the nonexclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to use one copy of the Software for your personal use on a single console. The Software is being licensed to you and you hereby acknowledge that no title or ownership in the Software is being transferred or assigned and this Agreement should not be construed as a sale of any rights in the Software. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are reserved by LICENSOR and, as applicable, its licensors. OWNERSHIP. LICENSOR retains all right, title and interest to this Software, including, but not limited to, all
copyrights, trademarks, trade secrets, trade names, proprietary rights, patents, titles, computer codes, audiovisual effects, themes, characters, character names, stories, dialog, settings, artwork, sounds effects, musical
works, and moral rights. The Software is protected by United States copyright law and applicable copyright laws and treaties throughout the world.
The Software may not be copied, reproduced or distributed in
any manner or medium, in whole or in part, without prior written consent from LICENSOR. Any persons copying, reproducing or distributing all or any portion of the Software in any manner or medium, will be willfully
violating the copyright laws and may be subject to civil and criminal penalties. Be advised that Copyright violations are subject to penalties of up to $100,000 per violation. The Software contains certain licensed materials
and LICENSOR’s licensors may protect their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement.
LICENSE CONDITIONS
You agree not to:
(a) Commercially exploit the Software;
(b) Distribute, lease, license, sell, rent or otherwise transfer or assign this Software, or any copies of this
Software, without the express prior written consent of LICENSOR;
(c) Make copies of the Software or any part thereof;
(d) Except as otherwise specifically provided by the Software or this Agreement, use or install the Software
(or permit others to do same) on a network, for on-line use, or on more than one console at the same
time;
(e) Copy the Software onto a hard drive or other storage device and must run the Software from the included
CD-ROM or DVD-ROM (although the Software may automatically copy a portion of itself onto your
console during installation in order to run more efficiently);
(f) use or copy the Software at a computer gaming center or any other location-based site; provided, that
LICENSOR may offer you a separate site license agreement to make the Software available for commercial
use;.
(g) Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;
(h) Remove or modify any proprietary notices or labels contained on or within the Software; and
(i) transport, export or re-export (directly or indirectly) into any country forbidden to receive such Software 34 by any U.S. export laws or accompanying regulations or otherwise violate such laws or regulations, that
may be amended from time to time.
LIMITED WARRANTY: LICENSOR warrants to you (if you are the initial and original purchaser of the Software)
that the original storage medium holding the Software is free from defects in material and workmanship under normal use and service for 90 days from the date of purchase. If for any reason you find a defect in the storage medium during the warranty period, LICENSOR agrees to replace, free of charge, any Software discovered to be defective within the warranty period as long as the Software is currently being manufactured by LICENSOR.
If the Software is no longer available, LICENSOR retains the right to substitute a similar program of equal or greater value. This warranty is limited to the storage medium containing the Software as originally provided by LICENSOR and is not applicable to normal wear and tear. This warranty shall not be applicable and shall be void if the defect has arisen through abuse, mistreatment, or neglect. Any implied warranties prescribed by statute are expressly limited to the 90-day period described above.
One could argue that part E could be concidered a vague reference... Not that it'd be a very good arguement...
This is the first time I have ever purchased a game and did not get the product I paid for.
Paid for the game...
Installed it...
Typed in the pin number...
nothing happened...there was no contact out at all on hitting submit...
Where do we send the boxed version to get a cash refund?
Umm... how did you type it in? Did you make sure it looked the same as it was written on the manual? You know, with all the ###R-###W-W#TR-###D?
I would like to know as well.
With the securom BS and only 2 instalations i think they came close t fraud. i would like my money back.
H, i dont think demo installs that rootkit on vista x64. According to SecuROM site there should be a service called User Access Service. I cannot find it under services.
A search through the registry for SecuROM gives nothing. So I think vista x64 users is in the clear, atleast regarding the demo.
I got other bugs with the demo though, but thats for another page. I wonder if I buy the game in the shop if that would install the rootkit? I really dont want that on my computer.
Hi. Thanks for the reply.
I did read through the rest of the posts, and I can't seem to find one by GregW or anyone else from Steam that confirms what you are saying. I couldn't even find a post by someone claiming that they bought the game through Steam and tried multiple installs and had it fail.
Can you please reply with the forum post number, like I did, that contradicts what the Steam official said? Otherwise, all of the posts since then have been Chicken Little speculations as far as I'm concerned.
I entered the code exactly as it was shown with the capital letters and hyphens in place.
Huh...that's mighty perplexing. Are you connected to the internet?
I wouldnt recomend it as the game failed right out of the box for me...
Do you have a source code analysed that this rootkit will not do anything and that this rootkit could not be used to breach your systems security? If not you should not put your hand on the fire for a rootkit which was not analysed at all.
I'm sorry, I know this is off topic, but I couldn't just let this pass. The poster of this thread is mostly right about the questionable legality of 2Ks actions with this game, and while I agree with him on this, I can't let the lie about Regent University just slip by. I know someone already made the point about it on this thread, and some ass flamed him, but I feel the need to back him up.
Regent University is a Christian supremacist school, which is a far cry from previously religiously founded schools like Yale or Harvard as the original poster claims. Regents mission is not education, or faith in Christ, but on putting far right wing evangelicals in positions of power and influence (they actually brag about this). They are not so much focused on religion, or education, as they are on politics. I think the fact that it was founded by Pat Robertson should say enough, but if you're still inclined to believe that they are a legitimate law school, simply because they are accredited, here are just a couple links for those who would rather know the truth. (These were just the first two I found, I know there's far more damning write ups around if you want to google it)
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2033067.ece
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=10114
As I said before, this has nothing to do with the posters arguments, or the poster himself. Nor does it mean he is not a real lawyer, or that you should mistrust his assessments. But it's important to out these organizations that promote fanaticism and bigotry, and not allow them to attain legitimacy in society (unless we want to end up like the Taliban, Saudi Arabia, or Iran).
Okay, rant over. Sorry again for going off topic. Back to video games.
Well said!
Please guys keep in mind the "Software" the terms of agreement state includes everything on that CD, including SecuROM.
Don't hurt me, I'm just a mod
One question, after the Gamestop employees stop staring at you because they have no idea what you're talking about and then inform you that they do not accept returns of any opened product what would you suggest as a followup?
Got it. So you could bundle in any kind of trojan or malware you want and do whatever you see fit to users machines because of your EULA. Long as its on the CD its "fair game" right?Well said!
Please guys keep in mind the "Software" the terms of agreement state includes everything on that CD, including SecuROM.
Don't hurt me, I'm just a mod
Way to throw away any responsibility to inform the users. 2K customer service at its finest. This is why people are angry.
Go home and play the game?
LordKanchi nobody is interested in your narrow minded BS about Christianity, politics or what-have-you. I don't care if you are an atheist/anarchist/Satanist or whatever -- a law degree is a law degree and a license to practice law is a license to practice law.
They don't?
That's weird.
Some time ago I bought Hammer & Sickle - it turned out that it's infected with Starforce malware - I returned it to a store and despite that they have a no-return policy for software, they accepted it.
I just had to tell them that they installed it without my knowledge and consent and what it does - they were so terrified that they didn't object.
See, in particular, post 107, in which GregW posts again to clarify that, no, SecuROM has not been removed, they just updated things so that it would "play nice with Steam". Then see post 128, or 147. Or post 3 in the "was securom removed" thread.
Where's the edit button on this thing? Argh.
Anyways, see also post 104 ("sucks to be you, securom is here to stay"), and the thread titled simply "SecuROM".
Doing some jiggery-pokery online about the rootkit thing
http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/help...ng-t18370.html
also a registry key isnt executable, and this one isnt malware, its just drm, messing with it could invalidate any licenses you have for other securom games too... so make a backup before doing anything
That quote is horribly wrong. Look up the definition of a rootkit and that is securom.
Heres a quick question. Why do the makers of securom feel the need to hide it from the OS so you cant remove it even if you uninstall the game? And exactly why do they feel it needs the ability to break the windows security rights model to do its job? How is this a value to the end user at all?
hi.
first sorry for my english im not perfect because im learn from games and subbed dvd movies...
i hate all copy protections because many problem with (securom/Starforce)
infect my machine....
now i go back to beginng and i buy only old games without this ☺☺☺☺ protections.... my friend already buy the game and dont have internet connection --- this is a little sux...
i dont have problem with 2k i have problem with all game customer.....
sell beta and later need 1million patch for work good the game...
******* ******** copy protection to ********** ****************
i dont wait more for this great games.... many good old wait for me.
No its not.
Securom does not CONCEAL itself. There is a process running when it gets installed, and you get OBVIOUS registry entries so you can identify that is has been installed.
So please...quit the "end of the world" talk and learn your facts...
Rootkit:
A hacker security tool that captures passwords and message traffic to and from a computer. A collection of tools that allows a hacker to provide a backdoor into a system, collect information on other systems on the network, mask the fact that the system is compromised, and much more. Rootkit is a classic example of Trojan Horse software. Rootkit is available for a wide range of operating systems.
SecuRom:
SecuROM is a CD/DVD copy protection solution, most often used for Computer games, by Sony DADC.SecuROM aims to resist home media duplication devices, professional duplicators and reverse engineering attempts. The newest versions prevent 1:1 CD-R copies from being made, and only making ISOs with programs like Alcohol 120%, CloneCD, Daemon Tools can defeat its protection.
Hmm...odd, typing Define Rootkit into Google.com and it doesn't come anywhere near what you said.
As for the rest of that, beats me. Why not give them a call and ask them yourself?
North America & South American:
1(866)734-3232
Well congratulations 2k.
If you still think you are some how winning with this whole piracy thing and what not, no no...When people go and return a copy of the game just because of the anti-piracy protection, I am 100% that in no way is that any good news for a company.
Basically, ☺☺☺☺ YOU! You screwed the PC users over the PC demo delay, you screwed over delaying the demo until 7pm, you screwed over the PC user with the 2 install crap, you screwed over the PC users with the lack of widescreen and AA, and oh what is this?! Now you are screwing us over with retarded copy protection software...
HOLY CRAP!
How much more ☺☺☺☺ can you freakin' throw at us?! 360 owners, got the demo on time, pre-release, pirated copy, widescreen support, AA, no retarded copy protection...
Wow, you ☺☺☺☺ing ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺s. You know what, might as well should have went console-exclusive if that is what appears you new targeted market to be...
Definition of a rootkit from Wikipedia :
A rootkit is a set of software tools intended to conceal running processes, files or system data from the operating system.
All of the Sony and 2K shills need to go home.
i've been on 2k's support line on hold for about 10 minutes now
Well, you're having to wait because of the irate gamers who can't be bothered to send their complaint via email. Expect a grumpy tech support person when they pick up.
Are you in any way retarted?
In what way does SecuRom intend to conceal process, files, or data from the operating system?
The installation is COMPLETELY transparent, you can FIND the files in your hard drive and the registry entries in your registry, you can SEE the process being run.
If you get a rootkit on your computer, you WONT be able to discover its existence without resorting to specialized software and even then it can be pretty hard to detect (and even harder to remove).
So please shut your yapper and stop terrorising people...
T bag on your face
In the sense that you can't see it all, yes - it installs silently and without your consent.
Well, let's see. It creates a service, a binary in system32, a bunch of files buried in the depths of Documents and Settings and a registry key in an unusual place, none of which the average user is likely to find. Of those, the registry keys have embedded nulls which means that you do, in fact, require specialized software to remove them - neither regedit nor regedt32 are capable of manipulating them - and the files use both special attributes and filenames that explorer.exe can't handle to make them hard to detect and even harder to remove - although these, at least, you can take care of without special tools, if you know how to use attrib and rmdir.
So, let's see...installs silently and without user consent; remains installed even after the software it was associated with is gone, and indeed can be uninstalled only by hand; uses system and network resources to the user's detriment; doesn't hide itself as well as the BMG rootkit, but does make a half-assed attempt, and cannot be removed without special tools; and is designed around an escalation of privilege to ring 0 that, while not exploited by other blackhats yet, is probably exploitable.
If it's not a rootkit, it's doing a really impressive job of disguising itself as one.
Apparently you have 0 knowledge of how a rootkit works or how it settles onto your system.
Come back to discuss this after actually LOOKING into rootkits and how they function.
Apperently youre missing the point, ok, lets not call it a rootkit! youre a GENIUS! Oh wait, were still pissed off.
Wow, this is a very informative post. If I had bought the game I would definatlely be taking it back..
Seems that licence condition "c" violates my fair use rights. Sorry, but a licence agreement does not invalidate law. Doesnt this make the EULA null and void ?
Anyways, I wont be buying this game until the activation limit removed.
Thank you for saying that.
It's amazing how much people will attack you by what college you attended or by what religious affliation that college belongs too.
I graduated law school with the same requirements as every other law school as is required by State and Federal law and I took the same exact bar exam that the Athiest and Wiccan who sat next to me did.
Absolutely amazing that someone can challenge your idea or ability to practice law just because of the guy who founded the college. LordKanchi, did you know that Regent is held up as a prestigious law school? To very many law firms they regard Regent right up their with Harvard Law School.
It is kinda interesting. In the real world when I mention Regent to other lawyers and judges they talk about that school or someone else they knew who went there. We don't break out Bibles and have a prayer session. Yet, if I ever dare to mention my school on a forum, I get bomblasted by all this rhetoric about how evil Christianity or Pat Robertson is. Pat Robertson is an ass, Ive never met the man but he irks me on his TV show. Regent does not reflect that man. But I guess LordKanchi knows all the answers.
Thank you.
The point is that calling SecuRom a rootkit and implying that it has the same negative side effects as a rootkit is misinformation directed towards the less technically adept and aiming to shape false impressions towards the piece of software.
Call it DRM software, call it anti-piracy software, call it crappy and restrictive at what its supposed to be doing. But to call it a rootkit is wrong.
2K screwed up, simple as that. I could repost what I said in another thread about the activation BS but I'll just link to it. (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=44)
As far as the use of securom goes, I don't see where it is disclosed on the box that it (the game) uses a third party program that can (and has) ultimately harm a users system.
As PC users, we have the right to know what exactly is being installed on our systems, as well as the right of having FULL control over it., meaning the ability to completely un-install it at any given time.
If installed "anti-piracy" software needs special tools to be un-installed, and those tools are not offered on the same media the "protected" software install is located, then that alone violates the EULA. Sure the "slight" mention of "some components may be copied to console" may cover a basic liability, but it doesn't cover the fact that the "anti-piracy" protection being installed is a SEPARATE PRODUCT from the GAME itself. It is NOT needed to run the game, It is NOT needed to install the game, It is NOT a part of the game.
Therefore, a separate agreement MUST be disclosed for the end user to agree upon that pertains to the install of the security software and it's "features". Since this is not the case, combined with the activation issues, 2k is liable, and will undoubtedly be responsible in the long run. Will they fix it? Doubt it...
Class action all the way, that's all I have to say... in the least 2k will HAVE to take back any copy and refund the purchase price, seeing that most who opened the game, can't return it since it's open, and there was no advanced notice before purchase about all of these issues... Nothing...
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