If you need to have your game refunded, here's how.

[Gemberkoekje]

These guys never learn.

I bought The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, because it's a wonderful game. This has nothing to do with if it's crackable or not.

Everything is crackable. The only thing protections do is to bother genuine customers, making sure more people actually start looking for cracks and ways to make sure they at least can play the game for their money. After that, why wouldn't they download some other game from the same site? It's free, and you won't get any silly copy-protections, annoying hidden or semi hidden protection programs (I'm keeping in the middle if Securom is 'malware' or a 'rootkit', it's a program i don't want on my PC), or other protection.

I promise hereby that i'll buy the first next game without any form of copy protection, no matter what it is. Get some sense in your heads, piracy is here to stay. Make sure your customers don't have a reason to resort to it.

So, i congratulate 2K with giving more people reasons to resort to piracy.

Go ahead, flame me. I won't be back here anyway.

[Bun-Bun]

I was able to return my copy of Bioshock to Gamestop today. Sorry, I just couldnt deal with the crap associated with it right now. Maybe a few months down the road, I'll rebuy a copy.

Anyways, if you are one of those who wishes to return it for actual money of how you paid for it for whatever reasons (securom/2k screwed you with the crappy no valid installation, unbearable crashes, .exe wouldn't start up, etc), you can tell them the following:

By law and according to 2K EULA agreement you agree to the terms and conditions regarding the installation of the product.

Under these set of rules, it is perfectly legal to uninstall the said product and reinstall it on another machine that is owned by the buyer of the product. Typically, one needs multiple products to install on multiple systems but one only needs one product and if he or she wished to uninstall the product, the consumer has every right to reinstall it onto another machine that is owned by him or her.....indefinetely.

Securom, hinges on your rights as the buyer. Securom, in general, does not; however, the practice of allowing only two installs do hinge on the right. It is the same as buying a Ford Mustang. True, you cannot advertise your Ford Mustang on TV to make profit as you would violate their buyers contract. HOWEVER, if you fully bought that Ford Mustang, it is yours until you deem fit to get rid of it. Ford cannot limit your driving or years of ownership if fully paid by you.

With your rights as a consumer both by US Consumer standards and by the very EULA contract on page 34 of Bioshock manual, 2K are in violation of their own contractual agreement with the buyer.

I'm not talking about the game being crappy for you to give the game back. Im talking about the violations that has occured under securom. Now, if 2K were to altar Securom so that you still need the DVD to play but allows you to receive unlimited installs, then their contract to you will be fulfilled.

But, right now, 2K is in violation of their User End Agreement.

Trust me when I say this. I graduated from Regent Law School in Virginia Beach, Va in 2006 and I received my license in Oklahoma after passing my Bar Exam in Feb. of 2007.

Explaining those violations will give you your refund back by the store you bought it from (with a receipt) or by 2K actual company.

Good luck.

**this post was locked by Elizabeth2K yesterday but I felt that every consumer had the right to know this; whether you love the company or was indifferent about it.

Thank you. I knew they were in violation but did not have the knowlege to discuss explain it in the manner you have. I will definitly be taking this information to future shop and/or 2K and demanding a refund of my product.

[Little-Miss]

gemberkoekje is right, this securom and other programs like it just harm the paying consumer. where as anyone getting a craked version will have no problems at all!

[Bun-Bun]

My question is... is anyone going to start a class action law suit against 2K games and Sony? Lets teach Sony a lesson like they were supposed to learn with there music DRM that cost them millions...

[conantheking]

Wow, the topic creator really does know his stuff.

[p4c_m4n]

Got refund today, tops.

2K...go ☺☺☺☺ yourselves. Cant wait for pirate release!

[eNuffSaid]

@ Kursa

Wonderfull post, good man. One of the best contributions I've read here. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Bless you,

'nuff

[Kyosji]

lol hate to burst your bubbles here guys, but Gamestop (Who is also EB Games and Ryno games) will not open opened PC games, ESPECIALLY if it requires a cd key for activation. It is a part of the companies policy not to accept them. If you lied out your teeth to get a store to return it, congradulations, you just cost someone their job. Yes Loss Pervention and the main office track down stuff like that, and yes, you can lose your job for it. All I can say is that if someone came in my store flinging around that stuff that the op mentioned i would send them out my store and tell them it's 2k's issue, and to go preach to them for a refund cause my store, and no store in my region (And none in the company) will return it

[eNuffSaid]

and one of 2K's tech guys said you need to take it up with the store where you bought it.

Very typical for businesses, when push comes to shove they point at each other leaving the customer in the cold.

I'll be sure to stay away from your store.

[Kyosji]

its the policy of all our stores. If your system doenst meet the requirements, its not the stores fault, its the customers and we cant retunr it, each time a bioshock is returned the store loses 50$ cause you cant resell it. If it's a problem with the developer, again it's not the stores fault it's the developers and you need to go to them about it. The most the store can do is swap it out for the same exact game on the same exact system if it's defective, and again, they wont take it back because the reciept shows it as already being returned. I'm sorry people dont agree with it but it's basic buisness, why should the store take a 50$ hit for someone elses mistake

[eNuffSaid]

here's the link to the post (# 34)

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/sho...?t=9517&page=4

We're not talking about one's system specs not up to par with what the game requires. I think you lost track of the discussion here. Probably too busy kicking people out your store?

In any case, we're talking about activation and protection scheme issues, and the game simply not working on PC's that DO meat the required specs. Or the game not installing because you have particular software on your PC.

There are plenty people who have presented reasons why the store should give you a refund, or how to go about it. I'm not really interested in what your stores policy is. I'm more interested in what the law has to say about this and about my consumer rights. Something you've obviously no clue about considering your attitude towards your customers.

[eNuffSaid]

Oh and about your poor store loosing 50 bucks cause you've refunded a customer, that's something YOU will have to take up with your supplier.

I bought the game from you, I'll deal with you. You buy the game from your supplier you deal with them, and they in turn can deal with 2k or the distributer.

But it is SO typical for business to point to someone else when there trouble; it's just childish and won't do you any good in customer relationship.

[G-Machine]

Great post Kursa, it's good to see someone trying to help other people out of the truck load of ☺☺☺☺ that 2K has dumped on their customers. You should try to bring 2K games some bad publicity by submitting your ideas to other Bioshock community forums. If sales and customer relations suffer because of their sloppy work, perhaps they might think twice before releasing a beta copy of a game to the public.

[Kyosji]

I believe you yourself misread my post, I was just giving examples.

I posted:
its the policy of all our stores. If your system doenst meet the requirements, its not the stores fault, its the customers and we cant retunr it, each time a bioshock is returned the store loses 50$ cause you cant resell it. If it's a problem with the developer, again it's not the stores fault it's the developers and you need to go to them about it. The most the store can do is swap it out for the same exact game on the same exact system if it's defective, and again, they wont take it back because the reciept shows it as already being returned. I'm sorry people dont agree with it but it's basic buisness, why should the store take a 50$ hit for someone elses mistake


The game store also has in the policies written at every store "Can refuse service for any reason"

I'm sorry, just because the game developer decided this, it's not Gamestops responsibility, and they wont refund it cause it isn't there responsibility. The store wont take the hit

[Bun-Bun]

its the policy of all our stores. If your system doenst meet the requirements, its not the stores fault, its the customers and we cant retunr it, each time a bioshock is returned the store loses 50$ cause you cant resell it. If it's a problem with the developer, again it's not the stores fault it's the developers and you need to go to them about it. The most the store can do is swap it out for the same exact game on the same exact system if it's defective, and again, they wont take it back because the reciept shows it as already being returned. I'm sorry people dont agree with it but it's basic buisness, why should the store take a 50$ hit for someone elses mistake

except this is in direct violation of the end user agreement. In which case everything you said is void and I would highly suggest you refund anyone bringing in Bioshock for the said violations other wise you are putting your self in a tough place once this hits the courts.

It says right in the end user agreement that if there is any breach of this agreement that it is to be returned to place of purchase. By law you must accept the return. Sorry to burst YOUR bubble.

You are right if it is the fault of the user and that there computer simply does not support the game or is not up to snuff. But we are talking about how 2K and Sony have violated the end user agreement and a bunch of other laws including but not limited to FCC.

[Bun-Bun]

Just to add there are some other store owners who have come on here and posted about this. They have taken all copies back in and refunded the customers and sent all copies including the ones left on shelves back to the supplier. This is because the game is obviously breaking the law and they do not wan't part of it. By refusing to give refunds you are bringing yourself into it.

[eNuffSaid]

Thank you Bun-Bun. Exactly what I was trying to put across. Ofcoarse you don't deserve refund if you've bought something that simply doesn't run on your system.

But a game that allows only 5 installs, or where the game installs software OTHER than advertised on the box, one deserves a refund.

About that stores that are giving refunds. Those are obviously customer relations oriented stores. Store that probably have a loyal group of buyers.

Our friend Kyoshi can make up as many "policies" he may see fit. I'd love to see how those policies hold up in court.

When there's money to be made he's the middle man, but when refunds need to be paid he's nowhere around. Once you sell something you have something of a responsibility to your customers. Honestly, Kyoshi, you're not doing good adverstisement for your stores (Gamestops). I hope your boss doen't read your comments. Although he may agree with you, this is not the way to advertise.

[Kyosji]

Who'se end user agreement? not gamestops. Gamestop would have no legal obligation whatsoever for enforcing its policy.
As for eNuff's post, "Our friend Kyoshi can make up as many "policies" he may see fit. I'd love to see how those policies hold up in court" I havn't made up any of these policies, go to any gamestop and they'd tell you the same thiing. Just because they did something that you all didnt like doesnt mean that the game stores will be held responsible. Also for the fact that gamestop has yet been told to stop selling any copies or told to give people refunds because of legal matters, i have to say that you are pretty much making all this legal bs up.

If you want to prove me wrong, make a lawsuit against it, see how well it goes. If you win i'll gratiously appoligize, but untill then, speaking as a manager, dont listen to these guys hypes because at the game store level they are wrong and it's only going to waste you a trip and gas $. Keep arguing all you want how you think i'm wrong, but heres the truth, I work for the company, I know its policies, you dont. So stop making up bs to be all smart, mister 'lawyer"

[Bun-Bun]

Who'se end user agreement? not gamestops. Gamestop would have no legal obligation whatsoever for enforcing its policy.
As for eNuff's post, "Our friend Kyoshi can make up as many "policies" he may see fit. I'd love to see how those policies hold up in court" I havn't made up any of these policies, go to any gamestop and they'd tell you the same thiing. Just because they did something that you all didnt like doesnt mean that the game stores will be held responsible. Also for the fact that gamestop has yet been told to stop selling any copies or told to give people refunds because of legal matters, i have to say that you are pretty much making all this legal bs up.

If you want to prove me wrong, make a lawsuit against it, see how well it goes. If you win i'll gratiously appoligize, but untill then, speaking as a manager, dont listen to these guys hypes because at the game store level they are wrong and it's only going to waste you a trip and gas $. Keep arguing all you want how you think i'm wrong, but heres the truth, I work for the company, I know its policies, you dont. So stop making up bs to be all smart, mister 'lawyer"

The end user agreement references the place of purchase many times. That would be you. You are now legally bound.

Goodbye.

[Kyosji]

again i say prove it

[eNuffSaid]

When I said "your policies" I obviously ment your companies. You may say you know your companies policies, and that's fine. But as I've said before, how do these policies hold up in court.

I'll be willing to be that in case of THIS particular game I just might win a court case against you. What it comes down to, is that the BioShock falsly informs the end user of what's being installed. And in my opinion installs software that simply shouldn't be installed. Sony has found this out the hard way with their audio CDs.

I would be entitled to a refund and you'll have to deal with your suplier on getting your money back. Judging by your attitude, I'm guessing you've had to deal with unhappy customers quite often and you probably treat them like sh1te. Why should you care, you've made your profit already.

Nice attitude, dude. Keep it up.

[Bun-Bun]

again i say prove it

Go read any end user agreement. There is proof right there. It's sad that a manager of a store does not know this and does not care about customer service. That is sad.

BTW I e-mailed gamespot and asked them about this. They said they would refund me my copy had I purchased it through them.

Don't you look like the bad man now huh?

[Bun-Bun]

stupid no edit's...

Just because a company has policies does not mean that they won't bend/break them in the sight of customer satisfaction. A online retailer that I buy all my computer stuff from has policies laid out that I read months after doing buisness with them and realized how many times they have gove above and beyond there policies to satisfy me as a customer.

Guess what... I continue to buy from there and only there because they do care about me, the customer, unlike you.

[turn2dust]

stupid no edit's...


Guess what... I continue to buy from there and only there because they do care about me, the customer, unlike you.

Your a fool to think that the company cares about you as a customer. To them your just a number. They could not care a less if you ever bought another game or item from that store again, because they know another sucker will come in and buy something from them. This goes for almost any store on this planet.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Your dreaming.

[Bun-Bun]

Your a fool to think that the company cares about you as a customer. To them your just a number. They could not care a less if you ever bought another game or item from that store again, because they know another sucker will come in and buy something from them. This goes for almost any store on this planet.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Your dreaming.

You must live a sad life with this kind of attitude. Any store that exibits the kind of attitude that you just suggested no longer gets my buisness. Has happened with local retail outlets and beleive me... they lost a lot of money because of it. Places that go the extra mile and make me happy know it, because I come back and recommend people.

Customer Satisfaction is Quality. End of argument.

Don't beleive me? Go grab a QA book.

[Dwood]

WoW. Thanks for the advisories ppl. i will remember to not buy bioshock in the future. someone should start an anti-anti-hacking movement, like the linux, unix movements. (Think of them more like free speech than free beer)

Us customers should have a right to install the game to a computer without having to deal with these activation codes things EVER. I would just as gladly pay for a $40 game online without any installation restrictions, hidden installs, and 10-page eula's as get a no-cd, no-restrictions hack. Without paying for a game.

->Does gamestop still take money off giftcards monthly after 6 months?