City's expanding on more tiles

[Obscure Thing]

I was wondering,

Civilization always missed something in war times. Dirty street war in big city's that cannot be taken in a few turns. You know like Stalingrad in WOII: The germans controlled big parts of the city but it never actually fell into their hands.

So I was thinking why can't city's expand on one more tile after they grow to lets say 15. You have to spread you garrison units but a city never falls in one turn if you forgot to pay attention to your borders for a few turns. Also a lot of buildings survive if only half of the city was captured. And maybe for example if you build a cottage next to your city in the beginning it grows to a town in the future. That town can later become part of your city if it reached a pop of 15. The town will still hold its value. But new buildings constructed in the city will end up in the town that joined the city.

Is this a good idea?

[mcl.denis]

Is this a good idea?

In a word, no.

[Obscure Thing]

okay it was just a suggestion

[mcl.denis]

I definitely get what you're trying to say -- it would be cool to have cities partitioned by multiple civiliations who battle for control (similar to the 50/50 ratio for cultural control, right?), but as core gameplay, I don't think it's feasible. Maybe as a certain mod or something, but with cities expanding to 15 hexes. . .well we're talking about an entire planet of cities here (which makes me think of Star Wars).

[Obscure Thing]

no that was not what im trying to say.
After a city reaches 15 population it expands one hex.
15 would be onplayable!

[Procylon]

I think this could be good, but they would have to have increased value of those city spaces that are crowding tiles. Perhaps no food production, but very high production and gold.

The biggest reason for allowing multiple city tiles would be to have Stalingrad style fights.

[Pry87]

I think this could be good, but they would have to have increased value of those city spaces that are crowding tiles. Perhaps no food production, but very high production and gold.

The biggest reason for allowing multiple city tiles would be to have Stalingrad style fights.

I think this could work as a full game-play mechanic. Building on what you suggested, if the city grows you lose food but gain production and gold, and added empire level food then you could limit the city sizes in areas with high food and expand cities in arid regions, although empire level food only makes sense with later techs. Also coastal cities could be allowed to grow because they can still get food from the sea. I think it would be workable on large enough maps and only a limited number of tiles, such as one from the centre, so 7 tiles in total. Could be an interesting game mechanic if done right...

[Datames]

I like this. Clearly a city with 10,000 people would take up less space on a map than one with 10,000,000 and this should be accounted for in the game. Civ is all about cities, without them it wouldn't be much of a game, so why not make them more important as they grow?

I'm glad they're doing away with the silly 21-square system... the bigger the city the greater its area of influence. I think that as cities grow they should even begin to swallow up smaller neighbours so that these become super-towns/suburbs. Furthermore, you should be able to direct this growth so that you can really specialize your metropolises. (Metropoli?)

Stalingrad style fights would also make for some pretty epic battle scenarios.

[Procylon]

They could kind of plug the town/village system here. If you have a hamlet next to your level 1 city, you can basically assume that years down the line when the city is 20-40, that it will actually expand into that hamlet making it a "city tile". You could just take it one step above town, with the bonuses you might expect from that.

Perhaps the same for an "industrial park" tile. The city eventually encompases it and has enhanced production on that tile as a result.

Or, what if it was a commercial tile improvement? City grows, covers that spot, and enhances the economic aspect of that tile.

Maybe just make it a flat out multiplier so that whatever tile improvement was there gets all of it's numbers doubled when it gets engulfed by the city.

Think about it, Detroit would be an industrial example, Manhatten would be an economic example, and perhaps Silicon Valley could be a Tech example.

Tiles that give beakers would be awesome. Particle accelerators, nuclear research labratories, sprawling university campuses, etc. Could all be tile improvements.


All in all I would love to see dozens of new tile improvements, especially advanced mines, modern farms, veticle farms, fisheries, etc.

It could all play in with the this concept of city growth.

[Soviet_Storm]

I love all the ideas you all are coming up with here, and my imagination is running wild, however i think we are drifting into Civ 6 or 7 here

Cant see any off this being in Civ 5 tho i really wish it was

[Procylon]

I love all the ideas you all are coming up with here, and my imagination is running wild, however i think we are drifting into Civ 6 or 7 here

Cant see any off this being in Civ 5 tho i really wish it was

Some of this would be moddable into Civ 5, but generally you are right.

[Loren]

This doesn't strike me as very civ'ish. If you look at a global (google earth) most cities are very small and it simply would be unrealistic for them to cover more of the map than they already do. However, with the new unit system I think villages may have a similar effect on gameplay, since you can't stack all your units in a city proper you may have units spread through the township, so part of the township (effectively the 'burbs) may be captured

[cscholes]

I think it could be a good idea. If you want things to be realistic then it would have to be a late development as urban sprawl didn't really happen before the 20th century.

A point on google earth and small looking cities - recently more commentators have been writing about mega-cities and mega-regions, where cities have sprawled so much over time that they have become merged by their suburbs to other cities, i.e. Sao Paulo-Rio de Janeiro, and Hong Kong-Shenhzen-Guangzhou, these end up stretching hundreds of miles and sometimes across borders

[Loren]

But wouldn't urbansprawl be better represented by villages that had grown into town? Ultimately, you wouldn't want to lose the production from the tile.
Anyways, with the non stacking units I don't think it will matter much anymore.

[Andrej]

I was wondering,

So I was thinking why can't city's expand on one more tile after they grow to lets say 15. You have to spread you garrison units but a city never falls in one turn if you forgot to pay attention to your borders for a few turns. Also a lot of buildings survive if only half of the city was captured. And maybe for example if you build a cottage next to your city in the beginning it grows to a town in the future. That town can later become part of your city if it reached a pop of 15. The town will still hold its value. But new buildings constructed in the city will end up in the town that joined the city.

Is this a good idea?

It is very good idea and I would almost say it is needed in new combat system, if you have just one unit per hex system. Imagine that beating one unit is enough for conquering megapolis. One fight and it is over... Game designers say they are inspired by Panzer General and this is exactly Panzer General´s system.

[Obscure Thing]

but there is got to be a limit of 4 hexes for a full grown city.
Or else you have only city hexes left in the end.

And for the combat system:
Maybe tanks loose the Blitz abbility in the city hexes. And become less affective. there's a lot of things you can do with it.

But one unit a hex... even in a city?

[Procylon]

This doesn't strike me as very civ'ish. If you look at a global (google earth) most cities are very small and it simply would be unrealistic for them to cover more of the map than they already do. However, with the new unit system I think villages may have a similar effect on gameplay, since you can't stack all your units in a city proper you may have units spread through the township, so part of the township (effectively the 'burbs) may be captured

Well you certainly wouldn't have a level 1 town branching into new tiles. This is megalopolis stuff. Sprawling cities such as LA, Boston, Seoul, Mexico City, half the cities in China and India, etc.

Perhaps when a city reaches the tile limit of 36 pop, then it can start expanding little city sprouts into the first hex ring around the city.

but there is got to be a limit of 4 hexes for a full grown city.
Or else you have only city hexes left in the end.

And for the combat system:
Maybe tanks loose the Blitz abbility in the city hexes. And become less affective. there's a lot of things you can do with it.

But one unit a hex... even in a city?

The city has it's own health bar, and can bombard enemy units like a ranged unit can, probably after a certain tech or when you build that feature into your city.

[MahaXaya]

great idea!

[barbalatte]

I like it. Although when attacking a city, it should either fall or survive. That's it.
If there are two of your cities in close proximity to each other, there should be an option, when they reach a curtain level, to merge the city with all advantages of both cities (water access, resources etc.).