Really? I think that, more than getting a few weapon upgrades, player skill is the highest deciding factor in who has an advantage compared to other players in multiplayer.Originally Posted by Electro-Bolt
There are lots of players at low levels who are serving cans of whoop ass to players at high levels, on the basis of playing skill (or maybe lack of playing skill of some players at high levels).
Wait wait... wait... where's my notes...
Wait...
It's DLC for DISK LOCKED CONTENT.
Badum-pshhhh!
Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all night.
What does DLC actually stand for?
Downloadable L Content
HAHAHAHAHA BAAAAAZZING
WIN
10wins
Downloadable Content.
While that much is obviously true, how do you think this would tip the scale for those players that are otherwise evenly matched? Like the man said - Advantage goes to the one who paid for it
This also makes me feel a little disappointed with 2K. There aren't many companies out there that we can actually consider "good, fair companies" and I used to think that way of 2K. If you are going to give us cut content, at least fool us by having us dl the files instead of selling us an unlock key.
I'm not buying this content because it's crap anyway, but its even more disappointing that it's not actually dlc.
I get both sides but ultimately there is no excuse for this behavior. We as gamers trust that the developers are doing the very best job that they can and producing titles that are as entertaining as they can make them. Holding out on content changes that perception. Now they are developing titles that are "just good enough" to separate us from our cash. The rest they will just sell to us later.
Whats worse is that they already developed it and sent it out. They are just making us pay for it because they can. Its not like it costs them anything extra at this point. Their cost is the same whether I buy it or not. It would be like if a Pepsi sold you a 20 oz bottle of soda but advertised it as a 12 oz bottle. You could only drink the first 12 oz unless you sent them another 50 cents to buy the last 8 oz. Yeah, we got what they advertised for the original purchase price but it is mean spirited and dishonest. Why hold out just because you can?
Before the Release there was content you could get if you pre order ,, remember the pirate looking guy and the woman,,,, that is a part of the disk as well but you had to pre order it to get it. there are a lot of games that do this,,, its pretty much the same thing here.
If you want it buy it if not don't.
I am saddened that most games give content like this for FREE.. take a look at unreal tournament or COD they send out new map packs all the time and its FREE says thanks for being a loyal customer.
o well.
My biggest concern is whats going to happen down the road a $5 here a $5 there then it starts going to $10 ect.
I'm all for supporting BioShock but this really is shaky ground were on. If the data was on the disk then I think it should be available to us as buyers. If 2k needs more money for BioShock then why not increase $5 on top of the launch price?
I really like the representation of the soda and paying money to drink the rest so thank you for that.
Also *to the mods* The $5 is not what most of us are frustrated about. It's the fact that were paying money for something we bought. I know that we just bought a licensing but I don't remember the Terms of service stating anything about content that I would have to pay to unlock. and Unlocking is different than downloading. (If I'm wrong I'm sorry)
I have not downloaded any patches to the game as of yet because of the first patch issues. I will be more than happy to buy DLC that fixes the vending machine's sounds ect.
Also you state that the $5 goes to development of future BioShock material.
How do we know that and that it's not just going to 2K in general? And I'm sure that GFWL gets a cut of that also being that we have to buy points......
I Don't like the fact that I have to use GFWL which is another nail in the coffin. I own the 1st game on Steam and it's wonderful. I took a chance on this game and I am disappointed. I can only say that I really hope BioShock 3 does not use GFWL.
P.S. I bought the special edition.....
Someone said if this was common practice no one would be complaining. The thing is this is the time to complain so that this doesn't become common practice. Next thing you know you'll buy a sports game and get 1 or 2 teams and have to pay if you want the rest even though all of the data is on the disc. The first bioshock is my favorite xbox 360 game but i will speak with my wallet and will not be purchasing this game or if i succumb to weakness i will make sure to buy a used copy and never purchase any DLC.
What I like about this, apart from Elizabeth's comments completely missing the point is this:
- BioShock 1's only DLC was a pack of extra plasmids that they didn't have time to implement into the game before release. It was free.
- BioShock 2's first DLC is a pack of, well basically nothing, that they did have time to implement into the game before release but decided they should dollar and dime the people who have already bought their product.
Lovely.
Very interesting point.
I registered for this reply to you alone... If i get banned for stating the truth so be it.
First, I am deeply sorry for those who believe what you say to be the truth, & defend it like they know it as fact.
Second, are you really trying to say that it isn't possible to download something into a game by way of DLC that allows both the haves & the have nots to play against each other? That it HAS to be put on the game disc in order for both parties to play a multiplayer game?
Third, Funny... Extra Items are not like having a new map to play in.
These Devs must think we all are stupid! I will no longer support your crap ever again!
Funny huh? They think we are stupid.
You wanna know what else is funny ?
There will propaly be Bioshock 2 "Game of the year" edition, which will "include all the released DLC"The cover will propaply be the same as the current standart version cover but some water drops highlighted so it spells out "Game of the year"
Cheers ! *opens a beer*
Last edited by Zekeban; 03-12-2010 at 06:14 AM.
Oh, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this happens.
Devs are dumb in my eyes, but gamers who support their crap are on a whole new level of feces.You wanna know what else is funny ?
There will propaly be Bioshock 2 "Game of the year" edition, which will "include all the released DLC"
Cheers ! *opens a beer*
Devs teach me to just wait for that Game of the Year Edition instead of wasting $60 initially (Well I never will pay that lol) due to everything being put on the disc at a cheaper price... I can wait. However, with the poor excuse, & the pathetic attempts to take our money I will no longer buy their games new. DLC & Digital Distribution is all fail in my eyes!
To be fair, the devs don't make those decisions. Executives do. You can blame the devs for making a poor game, but the business decisions belong to the top brass bean counters. They are ultimately responsible for much of the problems we see today. In fact, I'm willing to bet they're the ones that demanded this game be released before it was ready for prime time.
Last edited by Vonderbach; 03-12-2010 at 06:14 AM.
OMG IT IS THERE!!
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4094723_n.jpg
(I made that if some1 didn´t get the joke)
Haha that's amazing dude, I'm already gonna get my card ready to pre-order this sucka (sarcasm).OMG IT IS THERE!!
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4094723_n.jpg
(I made that if some1 didn´t get the joke)
HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHHAHHHAHHHAHHH HHAHAHAH
Double talk anyone???
All I can recommend fellow rubes is to find a copy of System Shock 2, play it, revel in it, adore it, then play Bioshock and do the same...and then think wtf went wrong!!!
Bring on Metro 2033, might even have to resort to Pippa Funnel's Pony Farm or Hannah Montana does Dallas at this rate!
She didn't say that.
She said, "creating the DLC package the way we did."
In other words, they chose to do it this way, instead of the alternate options you allude to. They chose to do it this way, rather than make everyone download a patch update with the DLC content in it in order not to split up the player base.
If they had done it that way, they would still be facing complaints - why am I being forced to download content in a patch in order to keep playing, and I can't use that content unless I pay for it?
A new multiplayer mode - Cash Grab™
Problem is Elizabeth, that the bugs in the game, + the DRM mess + DLC issues = extremely hacked off and annoyed customers. Reading your explanation makes sense, but 2K once again is coming out of this looking like they are money grabbers and that's not good.
The question has to be asked, are we to assume by your responce that all of the multiplayer DLC for the game is already included within the game itself?
If so why wasn't this communicated to the players before hand? Why market something as extra new content when it's not?
If not, what happens when you do release an original piece of DLC? Do the rest of the player base get that content as part of a patch, which can be unlocked upon payment of a fee?
Clear communication helps avoid misunderstandings and right now 2K has a lot of work to do to build up customer confidence in their products. I for one am annoyed that more work could have been done on strengthening and extending the single player game instead of filling the DVD with this so-called DLC. So yes I feel I have already paid for this content - not that I'm going to use it.
Regards,
Raven
Last edited by Raven-sb; 03-12-2010 at 06:43 AM.
Shouldnt they be more focused on fixing the bugs before milking ?
Well, you have to take the business side into account as well. One thing to keep in mind is that 2K is losing money. This quarter they lost $33 million:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...atestheadlines
They probably saw this as
1) A way to make extra cash
2) A way to cut down on bandwidth costs
That comment right there is Retarded with a capital R. Utterly misses the point, utterly spurious, and belies any intellectual competence whatsoever.
Even if people DID complain about such a trite and inconsequential issue, the big difference between that situation and this one would be that nobody would care about those whiners. Just look at all the coverage this issue right here is getting. People care about this issue. If you try to compare it to whining about having to download a patch, then you're either delusional or stupid.
Would be true if we were talking about a publisher like Microsoft & a Dev like Epic making Gears of War... Yet that isn't the case with 2K = They are one big company that publishes their own games from their own Devs.
Does anyone find it disturbing that we have a thread with over 300 post in just over 24 hours, countless websites reporting on this, and not a single word from upper management at 2K? With all due respect to Liz, she's just a spokesperson/P.R. person/artbook designer (I don't want to sell her short) and I want to hear something from the top brass. This deserves a sincere reply from someone with the authority to either apolgize ro tell us to go pound sand.
A sincere apology and an honest dialogue would make this all go away, would everyone agree?
I think we're getting lost in the details. When you say "dev's," I think of the code monkeys and design team. You're using the term "dev" as it relates to the entire team, no? I'm pretty certain that JT doesn't have a whole lot of control over major marketing decisions for 2K.
Last edited by Vonderbach; 03-12-2010 at 07:33 AM.
I didn't allude to other options... She described that you wouldn't be able to play against those who purchased the extra content if they would have made it DLC, instead of content that is already on the Disc that gets unlocked by way of a DLC key.
So, she describes this content like it's a map that segregates players who didn't buy, & could not play against those who have paid for such a thing.
Common sense will go far for you.
They could tell us what they are working on? Like instead of new ways for money?
I expect to pay money for any real DLC. So I suppose that would ne nice to know, but it wouldn't really make up for this catastrophe.
No, that wouldn't make it go away for me. They want to come out with a statement on Monday (as stated on Expert Reviews), so they have enough time to bring on more well formulated lies I'm not going to accept as apologies anymore.A sincere apology and an honest dialogue would make this all go away, would everyone agree?
The only language these moneygrabbers understand is the stillness of a wallet that just remains in a pocket ... in two pockets ... in all the pockets of those who care about fair relationships between customers and publishers.
That's capitalism for you. Honestly, I mean it's one thing to charge us for DLC that took time as was worked hard on. But to make a profit on something that was PURPOSELY cut out, simply to lazy make as DLC is BS!!!
Well because I don't know who to lay the entire blame on... I say Devs (For the simple people here to understand) that relates to 2K. Since it is Their Dev team that made the game.
@Vonderbach
The problems wouldn't really just go away. But if one of the devs actully responded to this we could be way on our way to untwine this mess.
Hopefully this'll happen soon, ignoring a mob of angry customers wouldn't exactly do wonders for 2K's reputation and if they are smart they'll try to deal with the problem as quickly as possible.
/D3
I know this is obvious, already stated, but I was just thinking about the phrasing of this again. It couldn't be more clear.
"DLC" = "Downloadable Content" = "Content which is downloaded."
The "DLC" did not consist of any content that was downloaded.
Therefore, the "DLC" is NOT DLC.
Therefore, everyone should be refunded because of false advertising?
Some of those gaming sites linked to are posting articles that are not very helpful or informative - such as still sitting on the fence about whether or not the "DLC" is just an unlock. Those contacting these sites perhaps could have been clearer in reporting to them the exact situation. "Fan community disappointed after realizing that 'DLC' is an unlock code to access content already on disc."
I'm still surprised that no one "realized" this earlier and that the uproar is happening now. In my mind, the uproar should have happened with the pre-order exclusives, which functioned in exactly the same way.
What is worse too me is that they use a stupid excuse, (Thinking we all are dumb) & make money off the stupid.
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