(A day later)
Well yes, I understand that toilets were in the bathroom, but at closing I don't think I ever said they would flush... but for $5 I will give you the code to unlock the floater in the tank.
(Two days later)
What? Well of course there was a dishwasher in the house, but I am pretty sure we never discussed the keycode to unlock the door, ha ha! For $5 I will give you the code so you can open it and put dishes in.
(An hour later)
Sir, I never said the dish washer would work without unlocking the ability to turn on, all you paid for was the ability to actually open the door. Why are you so angry? Did I say that the key to open the dishwasher door would also allow you to turn ON the dish washer? No, I did not. But for $5 ...
Yeah... this is how ridiculous your argument for 2K sounds. ANYONE with a SHRED of common sense and a well developed sense of Right vs Wrong can tell that what 2K did was total bull****... and it's nice to be able to tell who are the people who know bull**** when they see it, and who are the complacent "sheeple". I like to know whose posts I can just skip on general principle.
The analogies in this thread are getting ridiculous. The game, as sold, was COMPLETE. The legitimate beef is the deception that this was actually DLC, instead of a key. This is the only legitimate complaint that has any potential legal or ethical merit. Everything else is just bent feelings, which are largely justified. But comparing this game to an incomplete product is simply untrue.
Keep your emotions in check and hold 2K accountable for what they truly did wrong. Let's not muddle this with ridiculous accusations.
Last edited by Tech Paul; 03-12-2010 at 11:15 PM. Reason: reduced text size.
So let me get this straight... and please correct me if I am wrong...
It is IMPOSSIBLE for 2K to release NEW content without it splitting the multiplayer community? SO there will never ever ever in a million years be true DLC for BS2mp right? 'Cause it's not possible right? And the single player DLC won't be on the disc right? 'Cause its not going to "split the community" right?
So this "technical issue" with the game engine... does it mean they have to release what has to be the lamest DLC I've seen in years that was obviously meant to be part of the main mp experience??? I would love to hear more about this technical issue that forces 2K to release lame content.
People aren't mad just because the DLC is on the disc, we are mad because when you look at the whole situation it's obvious that 2K simply sold an incomplete game then turned around and grabbed more money from what SHOULD have been there in the first place. I really don't think you would see this level of anger if the original MP had all of this stuff from the get go and the on disc DLC was a bunch of new maps, weapons etc.
Furthermore, transparency and honesty up front would have gone a long way to preventing this incident.
Last edited by Tech Paul; 03-12-2010 at 11:22 PM. Reason: Took large text out of the quote
Yes, which is exactly what I'm trying to convey.Furthermore, transparency and honesty up front would have gone a long way to preventing this incident.
Also, Naughty Dog did this perfect for Uncharted 2. The first patch (I believe) included an extra map on it (The Fort) FOR FREE (as it was a patch), after this they released character skin packs and just recently the big-ish Uncharted: Drake's Fortune MP pack, which contained new skins/new maps.
They could have charged for that first new map, they could have bundled it with one of the later DLC's but they didn't, they released it for free so people who didn't want to buy it got extra playtime and made it better of course.
While this doesn't relate to 2K in the way that ND's DLC was made after the game shipped, while 2K didn't, it just goes to show how much more they value their community.
What can also be said about Naughty Dog is their blog, they don't have their own forums (yet atleast) but they get all their feedback about patches/maps/glitches/DLC's from people commenting on their blog posts and of course looking at other forums like on Playstation.com and on Twitter.
2K could learn alot from these guys, and I'm sure there are others that they could take a page out of their books too.
And oh yeah, they actually fixed the majority of problems that people had with the game (bug wise), much more than 2K are doing at the moment.
Last edited by Mr.Big_Daddy; 03-12-2010 at 11:11 PM.
Valve's DLC on the PC is always free no matter how big it is in terms of content or the space it takes.
(Unfortunately on the 360 MS has told them that they aren't allowed to release it for free, each and every time they asked them)
In good faith I paid in full for my collector's edition of this game which was $100+ with tax... and yet I missed about 26k worth of data I failed to purchase... Can somebody please help me understand this concept.
The way this was handled may very well stop me for getting ANY future DLC. I would have rather downloaded something than purchase a unlock key. Very poor taste.
a problem with elizabeths argument of saving us hdd space. if they ever patch the console version of bioshock 2 how much space will that take up? B1 has a 5 gig install plus a 222mb patch. same thing with B2. 5 gig install and the patch will probably be pretty hefty in size.
if you are going to sell me an unlock key, tell me its an unlock key before i buy it.
You lot however are not making content after the game has been released and then making sure everyone has it so that the player base isn't split. You lot are making content, holding a chunk of it back and then releasing it for a price.
That's shady. And that's why people hate the money grabbing tactic. DLC was not meant to be a system for unlocking content already on a disc, but to be a system where companies can create new things for games that have been released.
In short, you have no excuse to not work things around as Konami did with their game. That way they were actually making new content for the gamers and not allowing the player base to be split at the same time.
Last edited by Mikewarrior; 03-13-2010 at 12:59 AM.
You still don't get it. 2K decided to hold back the code, they made a conscious decision to make this the first DLC. This is no different that many other companies. Even Borderlands had the first DLC ready to go before game release. The difference here is the way they went about it, and the way they lied about the fact that it was DLC, when it is obviously not. I'm trying to get you people to understand that a business decision is not unethical. But misrepresentation is. Be mad about the proper offense.Fact is the game is incomplete the 'dlc' was in the game way way before release and then someone decided that they'd cut it and offer it as dlc to make more money a poor choice and that does result in an incomplete game. We knew this content was in the game then mysteriously its gone and poof now its offered as 'dlc'. If you bought the game you own the disc and should own all the content on it, owning only 95% of it means you were sold an incomplete game and people have every right to be angry about it. If those of us that stand up against this stuff didn't it will happen over and over and we don't want that to be the future of gaming for us. Although the rest of you pushovers I understand are happy to buy a turd if a Bioshock logo was imprinted on it.
This is the problem with ALL DLC = It makes developers/Publishers have easy control on what they want to do with finished content, & allowing them to easily screw us all out of more money by way of DLC/Keys.
For those of you who purchased the collector's edition... Open up the art book and look at the multiplayer art section. There you will see the art for both of the "DLC" player models...
I think the real issue here is consistency. 2K is an awesome company, the viral marketing, the free schwag, the frickin fantastic games, and people like Liz here on the boards, we were used to being served 12oz steaks for dinner, but with the DLC we got 2 1/2 chicken mcnuggets and no dipping sauce.
For me personally 2K still has multiple mistakes ahead of them before I would even consider excommunicating them. I have my Rapture Record, my IOOP card, my kick ass games, and I've had the pleasure of meeting Liz in person so I know that 2K gives a damn about it's customers. I guess what I'm trying to say is that 2K has spoiled us, so when something like this happens it's a complete shock to us loyal fans.
I don't think 2K can apologize and give everyone their money back and make this DLC free, but I do think this will be a lesson for future DLC's, and that's good enough for me.
Last edited by Steinmans_Apprentice; 03-13-2010 at 02:20 AM.
I will never understand those who PAY for quality think they owe their undying love for such a company when they get quality for their money in return. What is it... You don't think we all deserve quality for our money?
The smart people don't support DLC AT ALL due to what I believe is common practice, yet it's almost impossible to prove!
I have had quality from 2K up until this DLC mess, so rather than let this one crappy incident ruin a positive business relationship, they get a mulligan on this one. I've got a free vinyl Rapture record on my wall for christ sakes. I'm not going to start protesting 2K's hq and demanding everyone be marched out and shot. I've been given 10 times the value in viral marketing material for free in comparison to this $5 patch. I know that's not the point, but that's MY reason for cutting them some slack.
Last edited by Steinmans_Apprentice; 03-13-2010 at 02:31 AM.
Do you ever question that if they are capable of doing something like this, that they most likely have done it before without your knowledge? Yeah, I know... Ignorance is bliss.
Last edited by Steinmans_Apprentice; 03-13-2010 at 02:55 AM.
Everyone should probably read their EULA, you only own a license to use the software, you don't own anything on the disk. You don't even own videos you make of BioShock 2 and upload to YouTube, 2K does, and they can do whatever they want with it, including take it down or plaster ads all over it.
Granted 2K could have been more open with the DLC and just let the public know that it is an unlock key instead of actual downloaded content. The reason 2K Elizabeth gave is quite reasonable. I remember when DLC came out for Battlefield 2142, it really split the community badly. For those that did not buy the content you could barely find a server still running the old maps. Then you were up against players with better weapons and upgrades than you could get. I felt bad for those players (I bought the content on day 1) and I think BF:2142 lost a lot of players then, and I respect 2K's attempt to tr and keep the community together, maybe the situation could have been handled better though. If 2K had told the truth it probably would have prevented some of the backlash. 2K will know for next time, personally I don't really hold it against them, 2K is the business of making money. This may not be the best method, but it is the one 2K chose, and it is to later to go back now.
As an example though, if you go out and buy a copy of Windows 7 home basic and install it on your computer, then later decide you want Ultimate. Microsoft makes you pay and you only get a key. Yes, that's right, Ultimate is already on the disk, in fact, it is already installed on your hard drive. To upgrade you go to upgrade center on your desktop and type in the key. Then you have all the Ultimate features. Do you own Windows 7 Ultimate before you buy the key? No, you own a license to use Home Basic.
To 2K, maybe next time just tell the truth? Sure there will still be angry customers, but there are always angry customers. It's better to tell the truth and endure the wrath of a few angry customers, rather than lie and have the truth come out on terms other than your own, and piss off all the customers.
As for me, will I buy the DLC? No, not for the reason that it was hidden and lied about, but because I have no interest in BioShock 2 multiplay. If there will be single player DLC, then yes I will definitely be buying that.
OMG, I can't even recognize that horse anymore!!!!!
I think the point's been made that we are not happy(the majority of us anyway) with the status of this whole "dlc" transaction. Let's just hope the single player dlc isn't already on the disc too.
The only thing 2K can really do is come clean and say that it's the business model they chose. If they go further than that I'd be surprised. Maybe I'm just cynical now.
As long as the hate is aimed where it should, I'm on board for venting anger.
Did anyone else notice that about the only people defending 2K's business practices are moderators? Do they get free t-shirts or something?
This thread has gone beyond it's expiry date. I am agreeing that people have a right to be angry and people are finding a way to argue over the fact I agree with them.
Last edited by Steinmans_Apprentice; 03-13-2010 at 03:16 AM.
If we were aware of this, the situation would be different.