Bioshock is still too easy
Now I do not claim to be a good player, but Bioshock 2 is still easy even in hard mode. The beginning is probably the hardest when you only have pistol, but when you get your hands on heavy weapons things get easy. Second hardest parts are probably the alarms and enemy security bots, they can mess you up and take more health than two big sisters if you are suprised by them.
Part where you fight with two big sisters was a joke. It is only a challenge if you use "pistol" or shotgun. Also the hacking is too easy. In Bioshock 1 you had to update your hacking skills if you wanted to succeed in hacks in later parts, in bioshock 2 everything is hackable even without updates.
Probably the hardest thing in game is the ending, and surviving 15 minutes after little sisters start vaporizing the water. Surviving 15 minutes WITHOUT shooting the pipes that finish the level .
I agree that this game is too easy. But I feel like hacking is fine. Once you get further in the game, the green and blue zones become smaller, and the needle moves faster.
I just think they should of made a "hardcore mode". Where you could only carry one first aid kit, ammo is about a 4th as common, money is about half as common, big daddys and big sisters have double the health, and do double the damage they do on hard difficulty, splicers do 50% more damage than they do on hard (but have the same health).
Some tonics and researching make the game a lot easier, try to play without them for extra challenge. I do agree that the game is not that hard and extra hard difficulty seems like fun. Maybe future DLC will have additional difficulties.
Bioshock 2 isn't easy for me.
I just find it addicting and fun to play!!!!!!!!!
I don't feel that the game it too easy under the current overall design and flow.
If they implemented a new game + feature to the game then having a higher difficulty would be potentially appropriate.
But I find the game very difficult on medium much less hard.
As stated it's obviously more difficult if you don't upgrade any of your weapons or plasmids and restrict yourself to only a few tonics.
The first game I could not use any hack upgrades and successfully hack machines. It was just very hard and required multiple tries.
I find the new hack system more than hard enough and after trying six times if I still haven't gotten it, I just auto hack.
I don't feel hacking should be made harder at all. If you want to hack something hard then figure out how to mod the game so new game + works.
I add this so 2K is aware many of us are happy with the current difficulty settings.
In fact anything over easy breaks the entire emersion that I am a big daddy of any kind. Especially when the alpha series I am modeled after is so much harder to kill than I am.
As well on hard in Bioshock 1 with both armor tonics you take less damage from everything at end game, than you do on medium in this game (both armor tonics used).
I personally don't feel that the game is "too easy" by any means- it has a good balance, in a way.
Many of the people here have play and replayed Bioshock a dozen times over, so naturally the more you play a game, the better you get, and in that way, it gets easier to play.
It's just all progress there, the way I'm seeing it
(Although I do agree it seems you take a little too much damage as a Big Daddy- it's like your suit is made of the same material Jack's sweater was xD But the Alpha Series went down pretty fast, imo)
The first time I played hard, it wasnt that hard, but I am doing it again without vita chambers, and it is VERY HARD! I am constantly running out of Eve Hypos, and ammo, I'm only at Siren Alley (it may get easier) but right now, I am getting a whooping. When I first played hard, I went to fight the big sister, and thought this is gonna be epic. It wasnt. On my second runthrough on hard, I went to fight the big sister, and thought, this should be quick. MOST EPIC BATTLE EVER, same with the one is Paupers Drop. I dont know if I got worse or the game got harder, but whatever it is, I'm liking it.
I agree with the first poster that the game was way too easy. Sure you can toughen it up by splicing less and using less advanced weapons; however, upgrading is part of the fun!
Also, someone else posted that the hardest part is the last 15 minutes. Once again, it CAN be if you make it but the only hard parts about the game are the first levels up to Ryan's Amusements. Once you reach Siren's Alley and you buy Decoy it gets way too easy from there. Decoy 3 is just plain sick
How to beat ending EASY: When they begin boiling the water throw out a Decoy 3, Insect Swarm 3 and Hypnotize 3 an Alpha Series with Rocket Launcher. You won't ever have to fire a shot. Once they finish boiling just Summon Eleanor (only time I did just to see what it was like) and then hit the switch and blow the pipes!
I played twice on Hard and Drill Specialist both times. Wicked fun and overpowered. I would like to see some of the plasmids have a chance to fail. Example: Decoy will lure normal splicers with a 10% chance they are not fooled and advanced splicers have a 25% they are not fooled. Same with Insect Swarm and Winter Blast (10% chance they are not frozen solid).
Also hacking was annoying (better than BS1) but I never once wasted a tonic for it. Just save and reload if I didn't like the outcome. Ok, I'm done!
Easy? Was anything but easy when I lost access to every weapon other than the Drill and Mini-Turrets, Camera too on the Dionysus Park level I believe. Maybe you'd be happier with the difficulty if that happened during your gameplay, or you might just get plainly annoyed. Either way, interesting to fight two Big Sisters with Winter's Blast and Drill.
Originally Posted by Alberichs
that was a gene tonic............
you dont HAVE to have it......
why dont people pay attention anymore..........
played on medium then hard both runs w/o vita chambers used
the game starts challenging (on hard) and you gotta spend money but toward the ends and as you progress you become just too powerful imo. i researched everything really quick, with weapon upgrades you just wipe the floor with them.
I wish as the game progressed it would scale better with your abilities and powers, all those upgrades, discoveries, tonics and plasmids turn you into an overpowered monster!
You can turn off vita-chambers that is what I do, and if you are still not satisfied tie one arm behind your back and cut off all your toes. (That is truly "hardcore")
Originally Posted by Tayskasi
Originally Posted by Mr. Bubblez
I completed brass balls but tbh its not much of an achievement. So instead of respawning at a Vita-chamber you just reload your game. Maybe in BS1 VCs were useful because you could wear a big daddy down but in BS2 the drill/Telekinesis/plasmids/weapons are so powerful you only need one shot.
SPOILER on EASY BD research: I found the best way to complete your BD research on BS2 was in Pauper's Drop when you first get the camera. The Rosie may seem formidable but only at a distance. He won't shoot rivets/grenades if you are too close. All I did was wait for him to get to a corner or against a wall (if you don't he will just back away from the fight) and then zap him and drill into him. While I was drilling I also used Incinerate to wear his health down faster. Out of drill fuel? No problem! Go to the entrance to the Sinclair hotel and there is a drill refuel station. Fill up and then rinse and repeat.
Also, Alberichs, the Drill Specialist is optional but again still very easy. In fact, I've beat the game twice using only Drill Specialist as soon as I picked it up. I never unloaded it after picking it up even to fight big sisters. Trick is to load all drill tonics, both Eve savers and buy at least one of the two most useful plasmids in the game: Hypnotize and/or Decoy. Once, you have that all you will ever need to do is melee and hack for the occasional turrent in battle. Or just do what I did and get Security Command 3 for elite bots. Seriously, a hardcore mode for BS2 would be removing the level 3 plasmids and any of the level 2 tonics. Maybe even remove research so that the splicers get harder. If not, research plus Research Damage 1 & 2 gene tonics keep splicers at a 1 hit kill all throughout the game.
I disagree, I thought it was plenty difficult. I was playing on medium my first play through and it was ****ing ridiculous. I gave up and switched to easy so I could enjoy the story more and get through the game. Now I'm playing on hard and being smart about what i do.
Rofl I did that trick on my second play-through on hard, extra tip: the med station at the very beginning is right beside a bot shut down station, hack it than get an alarm and shut down so u can get 2 bots XD. Once you get the camera you can come back here and finish ure research. Managed to get destructive bots tonic at this level as well XD. To make the process faster you can also go all the way to the top and get research bonus tonic. Than do som research grind.
Originally Posted by r0hrshach
Try hacking with your eyes closed
Originally Posted by Tayskasi
That's a good tip too! Do as little as you need to get drill dash to get to Grace and then do all your research on your way back.
Originally Posted by lod7
Another hint to help with getting all your audio diaries for that level. If you like the drill as your favorite weapon then do NOT equip the drill freeze tonic until AFTER Pauper's Drop or else you could miss a diary. I kept this tonic on (I didn't care for the corpses not leaving loot because I always had too much anyway) and I missed one of the last audio diaries because SPOILER:one of the last Brute splicers you have to fight has it on his person as loot and if you shatter him it is gone. I had to replay the entire level because I didn't realize until after the fight and I already saved it.
I'm not sure why the gameplay even on difficult was ruining the story, but I can agree with you that Ryan's Amusements is probably the hardest level you will play on hard. You don't have any plasmids at that time other than Electro bolt and it uses insane amounts of eve when you first start out. That combined with massive chunks of health being stolen for every bullet leaves you always looking for junk food and med kits. This is where health stations were my friend and because money was everywhere I didn't care about buying health after a good hack. Hack it with a bonus, use the health stations as you progress and when you leave an area with a station and you won't be back destroy the station for the extra med kit. Adonis Luxury to Ryan's Amusements are the only levels where I did serious looting because of building your inventory and not having any good plasmids/weapons/tonics.
Originally Posted by Glasgow
Here's another good TIP for playing on hard mode: each level has a limit of things you can buy in a Gatherer's Garden. Sometimes you can only purchase one plasmid slot and two tonic slots max. Plus each level has successively better plasmids. To capitalize on this wealth always leave Adam in your "bank" when exiting a level. Example: On Pauper's Drop adopt your Little Sister's and get Adam and then spend it as desired; however, on your LAST little sister after you gather twice and then rescue her (if this is what you do) and then fight Big Sister do NOT spend that Adam you receive. If you spent everything up to that point you will have 200 Adam in your bank to spend. When you enter into Siren's Alley you can run straight to the nearest Gatherer's Garden and buy things you couldn't buy with it in Pauper's Drop. This may sound really dumb but it helped me a lot. I always found myself needing Tonic slots like crazy. My first thing was always to buy as many as I could which is usually 2 -3 but I would still have like 12 tonics not being used so I would keep a reservoir going into the level and then buy 2 - 3 more slots right off the bat. This can help because some of the tonics can make gameplay easier especially when you get higher in levels and you can make good use out of Eve savers and Damage Research; and then buying Decoy ASAP can make every level easier!
Anyway, I played it on an Xbox 360 and hard plays as easy if you use all the right plasmids and tonics so I can't imagine how easy hard is on PC. It must be boring.
Last edited by r0hrshach; 03-07-2010 at 10:02 AM.
Yeah I completely agree w the OP and most others here that this game is too easy. They just give you too many tools I don't get how ppl can have any trouble at all playing it (no offense). I beat the game 3 times already, first 2 on hard, all without vita-chambers, and I havent even died yet. Once on hard using mostly drill, 2nd time without ever using it (after u get the rivet gun obviously). This is what makes the game so easy IMO:
Security Command 3 - have 2 elite bots w u the whole time, come on
Level 3 Plasmids - Can kill any enemy in the game without them even being able to move while you unload on them, add elemental vampire and u never need a health kit (esp TK3, its cool but what a joke)
Fountain of Youth - They really put this in the game?
Natural Camo - Chill out and recharge in a puddle anytime u want, + security alarms dont matter
$800 Wallet Cap and amt of ammo - Had full wallet + ammo most of the game, could use whatever I wanted and just replenish no problem at all, so pretty much any time I used ammo or first aid or an eve hypo it was replaced immediately.
Also things that I never even used like Hypnotize, Decoy, and Scout just add to your arsenal.
Last edited by Spata; 03-07-2010 at 12:01 PM.
i don't care how easy it may seem. Its still a great game. sure you can splice yourself up so much--enough to be a cheap laid-back bystander, or you can be in the fray with Eleanor, doing something that matters; fighting the good fight if you will. yes Bioshock 2 may just very well be the easiest game on the face of the planet, but its still a great game and while your just siting back watching fight without you in it, just know this: "You are my greatest disappointment."
Last edited by Jules753; 03-07-2010 at 12:24 PM.
Obviously its a great game, hence the reason I've played thru it 3 times already, I just wanted more of a challenge accompanied by a greater sense of accomplishment. And btw, I've been "in the fray" using no plasmids and just drill dashing all over, then just popping heads with the rivet gun, then just using only plasmids bc they're fun too. Either way, game's a joke.
Originally Posted by Jules753
ROFLMAO!!! So if I use the plasmids/tonics the devs developed to their greatest extent then I am cheating myself out of a great gameplay?? Really?? See I would think it would be the other way around, by choosing to ignore a whole section of the game that was developed I would be cheating myself out of the experience. And, uh, fighting alongside Eleanor? If you summon Eleanor she will wipe the whole room clean, so isn't that kind of like sitting back and cheating yourself? If you follow that logic you should just not too get any plasmids at all and then you have another shooter.
Originally Posted by Jules753
Let's be honest, plasmids are like magic or the force. Its all the same thing with a different name. So if you think about it like that then I think one of the best games to balance weapons and "powers" was Jedi Knight. Oldie but it did well with making the powers tied to the good/evil ending. Basically, if you splice yourself up with "x" plasmids you are choosing this path and if you splice yourself up with "y" plasmids you are choosing the other path. Of course, Jedi Knight made the choice a little more involved as it also depended on killing civilians and how you handled the Stormtroopers. I think the best way to port that ideology to BS would be to set a goal of how much you could splice yourself up vs how many times you used the powers. If you spliced yourself up with all the powers (which you can do in BS1 but not BS2) but only used them occasionally and maybe just the ones like Security Command or Decoy then you get the good ending. If you splice yourself up even a little but use it constantly and they are the more destructive ones then you choose the bad ending. I know that it can be harder to port the idea because EVERYTHING in BS is aggro (except for certain NPCs) but there is a way. I mean they keep talking about splicers going insane and trading humanity for power but isn't it strange that it never seems to affect the main character. I mean look at Jack, in both endings he was ok and yet where was the Adam and why didn't he go insane without it?
The game's not a joke. The story is above average, the execution of story better over all in game play to the original. The game is entertaining and challenging to a point though not enough. I never got close to dieing on any difficulty, but I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Another difficulty setting would of been enough or the game plus idea, but its lack of difficulty doesn't make the game a joke. Its still one of the more enjoyable games I've played in the last few months.
Originally Posted by Spata
Poor choice of words, let me clarify: The only thing I meant by saying that its a joke was that, as you said, I never come close to dying on any difficulty and can basically just laugh at ppl and their attempts to stop you as you are so much stronger/smarter/better equipped. I didn't mean to take anything away from any other aspect of the game. The first was one of, if not my favorite game of all time, and this is not far behind at all. Like I said, there's obviously a reason I've beaten it 3 times already, and here's a hint - it's not bc I don't like it. But as far as being challenging - its not, its a joke
Originally Posted by Boredmad
whoa guys, it was a joke! you know the whole "" thing?
lol, the ending was the easiest part of the entire game for me.
Originally Posted by Tayskasi
I just sat in the corner with Natural Camouflage on and I wasn't attacked at all.
Yeah, Natural Camoflauge was one of those tonics that greatly reduced the game's difficulty challenge. For example, I never loaded a hacking tonic in BS2 because with NC if I accidentally tripped security the bots would never find me because I was invisible. Sure it may have taken me 3 - 4 tries to hack it right but I eventually did and the moment I did the bots would fly away.
From listening to these comments, I think one of the issues with BS is that the game is mostly about being defensive. You can play offensively and I remember that the first time I played BS1 I did play offensively and I remember it being challenging; however, if you play both games defensively the game becomes obscenely easy. There are so many things that make a defensive position OP (Security Command 3, Cyclone Trap 2, Decoy 3, Natural Camoflauge, etc...). When I first started gathering with a LS I would set up the trap rivets, find explosive barrels and call in bots; however, by the time I got to Siren's Alley I never set up anymore. I just saw a glowing corpse and set her down. It wasn't difficult to defend and more than half the time they put the corpse near a turrent or camera anyway so they made it that much easier!
I would consider the hardest part of either game to be the BD fights because you are required to be offensive, and even then certain plasmids made it all too easy. The hardest part of either game for me hands down no matter how you played was the first BD fight in the Medical Pavilion in BS1. There were no OP plasmids or tonics and your weapons were mediocre at best. Of course, I play Xbox 360 and I found that if I angered him and then ran down to where you melt the ice (the path to get Incinerate!) the game would glitch causing the BD and LS to get stuck in the ice so they couldn't move forward. At that point stand at a comfortable distance and just unload on him.
MY POINT: They need to make BS3 boss fights require more offensive strategies to really engage the player and make them feel the difficulty setting. If the LS could die or in the final battle if they were trying to kill the others it would make you HAVE to fight them and show yourself and be more offensive than just sitting back hidden and letting them run around chasing Decoys or trying to find you or worse yet fighting themselves.
I used Natural Camouflage for hacking as well. Natural Camouflage + Fountian of Youth = Amazing combo.
I flipped between BS1 and BS2 on my second playthrough just to get a good comparison and I found BS1 was noticably more difficult. The splicers took more to take down in BS1 and the Bouncers were a joke in BS2 (Rumblers especially).
Perhaps this is because 2K wanted to beef us up because we were playing from a Big Daddy perspective and we had more power, but I was under the impression BS2 was going to be a lot harder and the battles more complex.
Still, nothing compares to the very first Big Daddy you fight in BS1 on Survivor mode. Yeowch.
I honestly, found Leadhead splicers very annoying; just a small group peal away at your health. i needed to use a med kit alot
Rofl yea. Specially the 3 scripted ones in siren alley right after you first phosphorus buck pick ups. They burned 2 of my medkits the first time. Wish they didn't make a majority of the brutes scripted thou. man were they fun to fihgt.
Originally Posted by Jules753
The idea was likely to allow players the were a Big Daddy by making them seem stronger than Jack. Its also possible that the developers were trying to lower the difficulty making the game still enjoyable and a challenge, but not so difficult that players unfamiliar with this sort of game would find it too hard. Obviously they didn't quite get that right.
Originally Posted by Steinmans_Apprentice
It's kinda like an arcade game for me now. I mean, if I want to get into the emotionally gripping story, I can. But what I LOVE about Bioshock 2 is that its gameplay lets me just jump in and shoot stuff up, and I can pause it just like that if I want.
I seriously dont get how someone thinks B2 is still easy playing it on Hard unless your some Gaming Ghost that cant be wounded...Even Normal is challenging, that's what im on. All the power to ya for being that damn good though, I guess...
It's true, Bioshock 2 is too easy
During the game, there were times that I wanted to shut it off. Besides the difficulty, the game told you where to go all the time, and told you what to do all the time, multiple times. The objectives were always highlighted, and the navigation arrow would not leave you alone. For me, this limited exploration and really felt dumbed down.
In the last level for example, Delta needed to open a door (without a password) that was locked. Well, if the player had to think about it, the only way to unlock a door was to hack it. But the game assumed we could not figure that out. There was the navigation arrow pointing to the hacking area and it was highlighted in gold to boot. Since it`s the end of the game, the player should know how to hack a door by now. This is just one (very small) example of how it`s too easy.
This is rampant throughout the game and it made me very frustrated. I`d constantly mutter ``I`m not an idiot`` at the game.
BS 2 even had hints if you got stuck. BS1 had them as well but didn`t have the navigation arrow and highlighted objectives constantly throughout the game. Hints in BS 2 are usless because the game basically plays itself.
A really don't see the problem with most of the stuff you don't seem to like about the game play. Most games especially shooters have a navigation arrow of some sort whether its better disguised or glaring right in front of you like in BioShock 2. Lots of gamers don't like being lost its the entire reason for navigation arrows. The improvement in game play and focused story telling was BioShock 2's crowning attributes in my opinion. It was far too easy, but the game is still far better in my own opinion than BioShock in many ways.
Originally Posted by Mr.Plum
I'm fully aware that almost if not all have navigation arrows. They're essential for progression. But that's not what im getting at. Most games don't have navigaton arrows throughout the entire experience. This is what I'm trying to point out:
Originally Posted by Boredmad
We have a character telling us what to do, we have an arrow telling us where to go, we have items highlighted in gold for us to see, and we have hints if we're stuck. It just makes the game too easy, and dumbed down. I don't think we need so many aids. Sometimes it's ok to get stumped/lost/stuck. Figuring it out on you own is more satisfying to the player, and allows for a better experience. Having it shown to you doesn't give the player any satsisfaction what so ever.
The navigation arrow except for when you don't have an active quest in RPG's or mission in shooters is usually contently active pointing the way. There is a feature in an RPG I rather enjoy that would likely fix your dislike for BioShock 2's navigation arrow should game play be fairly similar in BioShock 3. 2K could make the navigation arrow optional leaving only the goal marker on the map, but I don't see a problem with the navigation arrow as it is. My main concern is if were going to continue to play powerful characters beyond the abilities of more vulnerable characters like Jack then the enemies and their AI is going to have to improve.
Originally Posted by Mr.Plum