Proper audio mode for 3d headphone?

[bcwang]

Does anyone know what is the proper audio mode to set in the game if you're using x-fi cmss 3d headphone? I want to get the proper positional audio using headphones and it's not clear which one of the settings is the right one.

Also, does this game use openal or directsound? It seems to have very few settings specific for the x-fi which it is supposed to be optimized for. It is also not clear whether the eax mode is only for x-fi (hd 4.0 or hd 5.0) or will work with many of the onboard sounds that support eax 2.0.

[bcwang]

If someone at 2k could answer the question, it'd be really helpful. I've gone through all text files, and searched through the posts but no one seems to talk about headphones and the correct audio mode.

[speon]

I would greatly appreciate info on this as well, as I am unable to get any kind of 3D audio upmixing (via CMSS 3D on an X-Fi card) as well.

The audio in BioShock is so fantastic, I'd really like to appreciate all the rich subtlety and nuance with the game's sound while using headphones, at least at some point.

[turls]

I've got LTB USB 5.1 Headphones. Didn't have the crackling audio, but now I do (these are C-Media based). But I would hope we could get answers to this thread? If I pick 5.1 is EAX redundant? I thought 5.1 and EAX were mutually exclusive. And even so, most 3rd party EAX devices only go up to EAX 2.0, so is this supported or not?

[hordaktheman]

Any answers on this yet? Considering that the game is supposedly using OpenAL, this isn't something that should have passed QA.

I've tried this on both Vista and XP using different drivers. Still no go.

[Tech Richard]

Try updating OpenAL from the following website :
http://developer.creative.com/articl...&top=38&aid=46
Then reboot the machine and try the game again.

Most of the time with different headsets, its a case of playing around with the different sound settings in the game. Go into the Audio options and move the top slider bar around. Test each one to hear which sounds best for your setup.

[Pablosb]

Hi Richard, I honestly think you are not answering exactly what we are asking (or at least what I want to know) .

I have:

- Windows Vista
- SB X-Fi Fatality
- Lets face I have the best headphones.
- Game should use OpenAL because of Vista

Which is the best audio option for this setup to enjoy cmss3d? Stereo, 5.1, 7.1. , etc, etc

Thanks in advance and best regards

[Tech Richard]

Thats fine, sadly we do not have a setup in the office which has your type of soundcard with a set of CMSS 3D headphones. However from what I can see from comments on other forums about this, 5.1 or 7.1 would be the best bet.

According to the following forums, the 5.1 or 7.1 sound gets "upmixed" into a stereo signal. I assume this will be part of the hardware and software of CMSS which will deal with this.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?threadid=182647

Its also worth noting, that in general the better input you place into any sound system, the better the output.

[hordaktheman]

Actually, it's just regular headphones we're using. 'CMSS 3d Headphone' is the name applied to the feature in the X-Fi driverset that takes whatever signal is being rendered (say, a 7.1 signal) and alters it using HRTF so that it seems like it's coming from a 7.1 speaker setup when you're only wearing headphones. That is the issue under discussion that isn't currently working; sounds that should sound like they're coming from the front/side/rear channels aren't doing so.

I'm fairly certain that it's not a driver issue because Bioshock is the only OpenAL game (to my knowledge) where this is an issue. As I mentioned above, I've tried this using different drivers under both Windows XP and Vista and various settings in-game.

Also, CMSS 3d Headphone is a very different thing to CMSS. CMSS (as per your link) upmixes a stereo signal to 5.1 or 7.1 speaker configuration, whereas 3d Headphone does the exact opposite. That was miscommunicated above.

If you'd like to test this, the correct method would be to hook headphones into an X-Fi, setting it to Game Mode, and set it up thusly:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6302/untitledgk6.png

Under these settings, the X-Fi driver is supposed to correctly localize in-game audio for any OpenAL game. As long as the game uses OpenAL, the driver would take care of the rest.

[Tech John]

Actually, it's just regular headphones we're using. 'CMSS 3d Headphone' is the name applied to the feature in the X-Fi driverset that takes whatever signal is being rendered (say, a 7.1 signal) and alters it using HRTF so that it seems like it's coming from a 7.1 speaker setup when you're only wearing headphones. That is the issue under discussion that isn't currently working; sounds that should sound like they're coming from the front/side/rear channels aren't doing so.

I'm fairly certain that it's not a driver issue because Bioshock is the only OpenAL game (to my knowledge) where this is an issue. As I mentioned above, I've tried this using different drivers under both Windows XP and Vista and various settings in-game.

Also, CMSS 3d Headphone is a very different thing to CMSS. CMSS (as per your link) upmixes a stereo signal to 5.1 or 7.1 speaker configuration, whereas 3d Headphone does the exact opposite. That was miscommunicated above.

If you'd like to test this, the correct method would be to hook headphones into an X-Fi, setting it to Game Mode, and set it up thusly:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6302/untitledgk6.png

Under these settings, the X-Fi driver is supposed to correctly localize in-game audio for any OpenAL game. As long as the game uses OpenAL, the driver would take care of the rest.

If the headphones are supposed to make all the changes to the sound try to set the sound options to the most basic.

Audio Mode: Basic
Use reverb: Off
Use Creative EAX Audio: Off

Does this help at all?

[hordaktheman]

Sorry about the late reply.

To clear it up for the record, it's not the headphones that make the changes to the sound but the soundcard itself. Or more specifically, the soundcard's driver.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Audio Mode: Basic', as there is no such setting, but I did try turning off the other two (I found that the 'Use Creative EAX Audio' setting is what controls whether it's using software audio or OpenAL). Doing this introduced 'blind spots' to the audio where if I turned my back to a sound source, or put it directly in front of me for the center channel, it would become inaudible under the 5.1 and 7.1 settings. That is to say, I only got the stereo channels but not the center and rears. This sort of makes sense assuming that the 'software audio' setting directly routes the rear and center channels to the soundcard's respective outputs, which go unused when using headphones. Picking 'stereo' puts all audio back in but, again, not localized. None of this is particularly surprising since this is not OpenAL related, which is where the problem lies, and is thus irrelevant.

OpenAL, however, is a very different beast. How it works is that when a game uses OpenAL, the driver (as per my above screenshot) completely overrides any speaker setting selected within the game. For example, the in-game stereo, 5.1 and 7.1 settings make absolutely no difference to the audio when running under OpenAL because it's the driver setting that controls this. If you look at my above screenshot of the driver panel, you will see that I have headphones selected in the lower portion. When using that setting, stereo, 5.1 and 7.1 selected in-game all sound the same. This is how it should work, and does so for every other OpenAL game out there. The same applies if I have 4.1 selected in the driver panel; the audio changes accordingly whereas the in-game settings have no effect. The problem is that, when using headphones or a 2.1 speaker setup, OpenAL is supposed to supply those with virtual surround. That is what is missing.

So to sum up, I see no reason to think that there is an issue with the 'software audio' setting for those with stereo, 5.1 and 7.1 speaker setups. Nor is there a problem for those using OpenAL with speaker setups over two speakers. This is a problem that only affects those using headphones or 2.1 setups; the game doesn't supply those with virtual surround, which it should because it's using OpenAL.

I hope this post is not too convoluted (I wrote it over a period of a few hours and it's late around here) so let me know if I'm too unclear on some things.

[jeromewilson]

- Lets face I have the best headphones.

Cool, what are these best headphones of which you speak?

[Pablosb]

Cool, what are these best headphones of which you speak?

I mentioned that becuase a tech guy said that the config and the lack of surround depends on the headphone. The truth is that, as hordaktheman said,OpenAL is supposed to supply those with virtual surround and that is what is missing. This issue should be fix in the next patch in order to have a better expierence. Moreover, this game is sponsored by Sound Blaster. Its unbelievable that with an SB Xfi, CMSS3D activated and headphones we cannot have surround sound using Vista (Open AL)

BTW, I have a SteelSeries 5H Headphone.

Best regards.

[PlayerOfGames]

Hi,

Not sure if the following link posted on the sounblaster site will help, but worth a look?

http://www.soundblaster.com/Applicat...&categoryID=13

PoG

[Pablosb]

Hi,

Not sure if the following link posted on the sounblaster site will help, but worth a look?

http://www.soundblaster.com/Applicat...&categoryID=13

PoG

Excellent guide. I will check later if Ive missed something.

Thank you !

[Tech Dan]

Thank you PoG for your submission.

Please let me know if the soundblaster link helps with any virtualization issues you have been encountering...

[jeromewilson]

BTW, I have a SteelSeries 5H Headphone.

Thanks I'm looking for headphones to go with my X-Fi at the mo' so I'm off to check those out now. I was quite tempted by the idea of surround headphones but if CMSS is good (and if the software supports it!) then maybe really good quality stero ones are a better bet.

Hope the Creative guide helps sort out the problem.

[erk]

I run with 7.1 in windows control panel and headphones in X-Fi with auto on both in CMSS-3D control panel. Then I use the highest possible ingame and let the X-Fi downmix it, works the best for me atleast.

[Pablosb]

Thank you PoG for your submission.

Please let me know if the soundblaster link helps with any virtualization issues you have been encountering...

Well, here are my settings:

Windows Vista Ultimate
Sound Blaster X-FI Fatality (Driver version 2.15.0002 (51.09 MB) 30 May 07 )

Setup in Xfi Audio Console
-Game Mode
-Headphones
-Enabled EAX Effects
-Enabled X-FI CMSS-3D
-Enabled X-FI Crystalizer

By default, Bioshocks audio options are:
Audio Mode: Stereo
Use reverb: ON
Use Creative EAX Audio: OFF

With this settings, I have excellent sound, but with lack of 3d virtualization, just stereo output.

In the Creative guide that was previously posted, says
"When you have your X-Fi sound card set up correctly as detailed above, then having these two options set to "ON" should result in a smooth, sweet sounding 3D soundtrack with beautiful environmental audio effects such as reverb and filtering."

So, I just changed Use Creative EAX Audtio to ON, restarted the game and unluckily....no stereo output, just a really "flat" sound, lets say with "less volume" and mono.

By Reversing Use Creative EAX Audtio to OFF, I could come back to the excellent sound but in stereo, not with 3d surround as expected using CMSS-3D.


Any new idea?

Thanks and best regards, Pablo

[Pablosb]

I dont undestund why if I turn Use Creative EAX Audio to ON, the sound is flat, almost in mono.

Suggestions?

[Tech John]

Are you using 3D headphones? If so check out the link that Player of Games posted.

[Ric]

OK, I'm going to jump in here too. My XFI Xtreme Gamer Fatalt1y professional series 7.1 sound card (boy what a mouth full) arrives some time today -- should have been yesterday but that's another story -- so this thread doesn't inspire me. Can some one let me know if this is a Vista thing or is this XP too, or is it a general OAL/EAX/Creative & BioShock issue.


Man I hope this thing works: £150 quid worth of hardware!

[hordaktheman]

Thank you PoG for your submission.

Please let me know if the soundblaster link helps with any virtualization issues you have been encountering...

Unfortunately, no. Those are the settings I've been running at the entire time.

I dont undestund why if I turn Use Creative EAX Audio to ON, the sound is flat, almost in mono.

Suggestions?

I really just have to refer to my previous post #11; it's broken for us headphone/stereo users. It unfortunately is as simple as that.

The 'Use Creative EAX Audio' setting is what enables OpenAL (hardware audio) within the game. If you turn it off, the game reverts to software audio, which eliminates any and all processing done by the X-Fi.

[hordaktheman]

OK, I'm going to jump in here too. My XFI Xtreme Gamer Fatalt1y professional series 7.1 sound card (boy what a mouth full) arrives some time today -- should have been yesterday but that's another story -- so this thread doesn't inspire me. Can some one let me know if this is a Vista thing or is this XP too, or is it a general OAL/EAX/Creative & BioShock issue.


Man I hope this thing works: £150 quid worth of hardware!

This issue applies to both Vista and XP. But, again, this only applies to headphones and stereo speaker setups. If you have a surround/4.1/5.1/7.1 speaker setup you have nothing to worry about.

[Pablosb]

The 'Use Creative EAX Audio' setting is what enables OpenAL (hardware audio) within the game. If you turn it off, the game reverts to software audio, which eliminates any and all processing done by the X-Fi.

Yes, but its strange. Do you also have a flat and mono sound when you turn that setting to ON ? (Ive tested near a waterfall or cascade)

Thanks and best regards.

[hordaktheman]

Yes, but its strange. Do you also have a flat and mono sound when you turn that setting to ON ? (Ive tested near a waterfall or cascade)

Thanks and best regards.

Yes, I've noticed that as well. Some of the ambient sounds (like water cascades) aren't coming from anywhere in particular whereas they do under software audio. That seems to be a generic OpenAL issue though, as it also applies to quad, 5.1 and 7.1.

Also, while I was fiddling about, I accidentally set the in-game mode to quad speakers instead of stereo, and noticed that I'd finally got some channel separation.

Ironically enough, even though the previously linked 'Bioshock audio guide' explicitly states that the in-game speaker setting is ignored when using OpenAL (as it should), the quad setting selected in-game gives me a quite good 3d effect.

Given that it shouldn't have an effect in the first place, and the fact that it isn't perfect (possibly due to other unrelated OpenAL issues), I would at best consider this a workaround rather than a fix. It does, however, make the game less disorienting and definitely playable.

Try it and let me know what you think.

[Pablosb]

Yes, I've noticed that as well. Some of the ambient sounds (like water cascades) aren't coming from anywhere in particular whereas they do under software audio. That seems to be a generic OpenAL issue though, as it also applies to quad, 5.1 and 7.1.

Also, while I was fiddling about, I accidentally set the in-game mode to quad speakers instead of stereo, and noticed that I'd finally got some channel separation.

Ironically enough, even though the previously linked 'Bioshock audio guide' explicitly states that the in-game speaker setting is ignored when using OpenAL (as it should), the quad setting selected in-game gives me a quite good 3d effect.

Given that it shouldn't have an effect in the first place, and the fact that it isn't perfect (possibly due to other unrelated OpenAL issues), I would at best consider this a workaround rather than a fix. It does, however, make the game less disorienting and definitely playable.

Try it and let me know what you think.

Well, I heard an improvement. I dont really know if its for real or becuase I want a solution right now . Talking seriously, it seems that quad improves a bit the surround sound that stereo cannot bring, but you need a good ear.

I will keep with these settings:

Quad (Despite using headphones)
Use reverb: ON
Use Creative EAX Audio: OFF

BTW, since you have a better ear , did you try 5.1 or surround instead of Quad?

Regards,

[Ric]

I thought I would report back on my experience with setting up a Fatal1ty Xtreme Gamer professional series 7.1 Sound Card (Fatal1ty).

Win Xp SP2 + all auto updates
Asus M2n-Sli Deluxe
Athlon X2 6000+
2 Gig Corsair XMS2 at 4-4-4-12 2T timings
Geforce 8800 GTS 640 Mb
70 Gb Maxtor Sata I HDD
LG DVD-RW
Fatal1ty yada yada yada
Fatal1ty Stereo Headphones/2.0 Stereo Speakers


No problems. Headphones work great and CMSS-3D is working (very well) over both a 2.0 Speaker or headphones setup. I know that's not much help to any one who is having problems; it does show that the system can work though. The only thing I should probably mention is that this is a clean build, I put it together last night and then set BioShock up this morning.

Good luck with solving your issues, I hope you resolve them sooner rather than later.

[hordaktheman]

Well, I heard an improvement. I dont really know if its for real or becuase I want a solution right now . Talking seriously, it seems that quad improves a bit the surround sound that stereo cannot bring, but you need a good ear.

I will keep with these settings:

Quad (Despite using headphones)
Use reverb: ON
Use Creative EAX Audio: OFF

BTW, since you have a better ear , did you try 5.1 or surround instead of Quad?

Regards,

Yep, I've tried pretty much every possible configuration/combination of settings. 5.1 and 7.1 are borked like stereo in that OpenAL overrides them as it should and lacks proper localization. It's interesting that Quad, Surround and Pro Logic all seem to be immune to OpenAL overriding them, and they all offer 3d audio to a degree, yet all are flawed. Quad comes closest to 'correct' (aside from some ambient sounds), whereas Surround localizes some channels wrongly (things to your left sound like they're coming from behind you) and Pro Logic is missing the rear-left channel.

It's really hard to pinpoint the exact issue because it goes all over the place.

[bioshocksound]

Im going to bump this one because this game and CMSS3D are like a match made in.... Rapture !