Screenshot observations

[Procylon]

I took a gander at the screens again trying to get a feel for the hex system when I started looking closer at some of the specifics.

http://civilization5.com/img/screens...eenshot_01.jpg

If you look closely at the farms, you see that they have extra little farm square outlines that do not seem to be worked, yet still have outlines showing where they would be. Part of the outline even stretches into the cattle pasture. One even seems to stretch into a forest which would be a completely separate hex from the original farm.


http://civilization5.com/img/screens...eenshot_02.jpg

1 Look at the farms in this picture. A couple of the farmed hex's not only have little farm outlines stretching into the ocean, but they have clearly marked fields in the middle of a farmed hex that are not being farmed.

Why would that farm have essentially untilled fields while other farmed hexes are being worked at full production?

I would theorize that they are either trying to make farms graphically diverse, or the field looks half worked because it is half worked.

Otherwise, we might be seeing an example of a tile that is only half farmable. Perhaps a single hex could be a combination grassland/swamp hence the hit and miss farmed patches.

2 One of those 5 farms stands out as having a wheat resource on it, yet without showing a big wheat stalk on it. I like it.

3 Take a look at the cultural borders. Notice how the forest in the middle is not in the boundary, yet the hexes that are even further away to the west are part of the territory.

What you have in this screenshot is a likely demonstration that military units can and will expand national borders in Civ 5.

A second possibility would be that perhaps cultural boundaries grow in random directions at smaller increments of culture.

I prefer the first possibility that we can expand borders militarily. About time.

4 There is clearly a worker in this screenshot, no surprise there really.

5 Also what appears to be a barb camp in the far west. Also obviously returning.


http://civilization5.com/img/screens...eenshot_03.jpg

1 Notice another example in the far west of a military unit capturing single hexes of territory.

2 Look at how the mountains line up into ranges much more naturally in the hex format. I think we are going to see much better generation of mountain formations that play much better roles in strategic movement.

3 Check out the catapults. Look at their buckets are graphically displayed. All but one catapult seems to have fired it's load at the enemy. It makes me wonder if it is graphically representing the catapults having fired that turn, and if so, then perhaps a catapult that comes in a group of 2 may have 2 shots that might be fired at 2 separate enemies?

More likely they just took that screenshot while the catapult was in it's generic animation, but imagine if you could just glance at your ranged units and see which still need to bombard something this turn.


Going to find the other screenshots tomorrow to see if I can pick out any more details.

[Edmundrw]

Whilst I would quite like military units to have their own culture or some other similar system, I'm not 100% sure that's what we're seeing here. The cultural borders may just appear on squares that you're working until you're pumping out the culture a la Civ Rev.
Still some nice observations there, particularly about the farms.
The map looks gorgeous and no mistake

[HolmstN]

If you look closely at the farms, you see that they have extra little farm square outlines that do not seem to be worked, yet still have outlines showing where they would be. Part of the outline even stretches into the cattle pasture. One even seems to stretch into a forest which would be a completely separate hex from the original farm.

Farm expansion, perhaps? Workers planting extra crops on other tiles?

What I also find interesting is the lack of any cultural borders shown in this picture. There are worked tiles, so we can assume one of two things:

a) The area was worked while a city was in the area, but an enemy military destroyed it. We've seen this before, so nothing new here. Though it is generally a strange strategy; if there exists significant enough improvements in the area (it looks like a fairly lush area, especially with cattle that would make it worthwhile), why destroy a city? Nothing but theories from this point, though.

b) Workers can work any tiles they want, within or outside cultural borders. I'm not sure how useful this would be, though it was always exceedingly annoying when that source of Copper was snuggled right in between two portions of my cultural expansion.

Also, you'll notice the same colors are repeated in the upper and lower farms, but in different order. Once again, this could simply be graphical differentiation for effect. There exists the possibility, however, that farms (and perhaps worked tiles in general) will have greater micromanagement to them. Will they change output during different seasons, in different areas? Depending on weather?

And as Procylon inferred, do farms have the possibility to expand their boundaries, just like cultural borders?

One of those 5 farms stands out as having a wheat resource on it, yet without showing a big wheat stalk on it. I like it.

I'm not sure how useful a feature this would be. It might become a little confusing with resources such as corn and wheat accessible.

Although the field doesn't *look* dead, there's also the possibility that the coloration is an affect of "off-season" farming?

What you have in this screenshot is a likely demonstration that military units can and will expand national borders in Civ 5.

A second possibility would be that perhaps cultural boundaries grow in random directions at smaller increments of culture.

I don't think random directions would make much sense. There seems far too much continuity to the directions for it to be simply 'random.' Military units make the most useful explanation, but perhaps other units could assist as well (domestic units).

There is clearly a worker in this screenshot, no surprise there really.

I don't see a worker? On the right, that group looks more to me like early warriors.

As a final comment, notice how, in screenshot 2, most of the middle land is "farmed" tiles? Even underneath the horses? Not all of them are "worked" tiles, but they exist nonetheless.

[Francesco82]

4 There is clearly a worker in this screenshot, no surprise there really.

I can't seem to find it, could you please point it? If you are reffering to the unit in the bottom right corner... if you zoom it you can clearly see it's the same barbarian unit fortified in the fort, same club, helm and armor.

[Procylon]

Whilst I would quite like military units to have their own culture or some other similar system, I'm not 100% sure that's what we're seeing here. The cultural borders may just appear on squares that you're working until you're pumping out the culture a la Civ Rev.
Still some nice observations there, particularly about the farms.
The map looks gorgeous and no mistake

That would not work because you would never be able to expand your empire that way unless the cities also grew like they do in Civ 4. Which would kind of render it useless since they grow in less than 20 turns anyway...

Anyway, notice how every city show has 1 ring of culture around it that is solid. It is only the tiles farther away that are affected by the unusual culture.

Screenshot 3 shows a unit that seems to have taken 2-3 single tiles. There could be a city in the hex over that we can see, but I find it more likely that units are now helping to expand borders 1 hex at a time.

There are some pretty popular mods for military border expansion for Civ 4.

Farm expansion, perhaps? Workers planting extra crops on other tiles?

What I also find interesting is the lack of any cultural borders shown in this picture. There are worked tiles, so we can assume one of two things:

a) The area was worked while a city was in the area, but an enemy military destroyed it. We've seen this before, so nothing new here. Though it is generally a strange strategy; if there exists significant enough improvements in the area (it looks like a fairly lush area, especially with cattle that would make it worthwhile), why destroy a city? Nothing but theories from this point, though.

b) Workers can work any tiles they want, within or outside cultural borders. I'm not sure how useful this would be, though it was always exceedingly annoying when that source of Copper was snuggled right in between two portions of my cultural expansion.

Also, you'll notice the same colors are repeated in the upper and lower farms, but in different order. Once again, this could simply be graphical differentiation for effect. There exists the possibility, however, that farms (and perhaps worked tiles in general) will have greater micromanagement to them. Will they change output during different seasons, in different areas? Depending on weather?

And as Procylon inferred, do farms have the possibility to expand their boundaries, just like cultural borders?

I like the idea of those farms being distant colony farms that provide food back to another city. That would open up a lot of Civ 5 from the traditional city cross we are used to.

Oh btw, city cross? Even that isn't possible in Civ 5. I hope they don't have a "city limits" like in Civ 1-4, but perhaps a distance efficiency where you can mine 10 tiles away but it costs more or brings less iron back per turn. Something other than "its 3 tiles away, I Can't touch it without founding another city".

If they do have a city limits, perhaps it will at least be expanded to 3-5 hexes out.

I'm not sure how useful a feature this would be. It might become a little confusing with resources such as corn and wheat accessible.

Although the field doesn't *look* dead, there's also the possibility that the coloration is an affect of "off-season" farming?

I think corn would be obvious too. A yellow/green mix that extends over the entire tile. Normal farms are a mismatch of different crop colors, but the wheat is all solid wheat. So, farmed resources would probably always be a hex of nothing but that color of field.

I think graphically it will be easy to pick out once farmed. I imagine you still have some sort of icon for those before they are actually farmed too.

If it were offseason I think the other farms nearby would also be affected.

As a final comment, notice how, in screenshot 2, most of the middle land is "farmed" tiles? Even underneath the horses? Not all of them are "worked" tiles, but they exist nonetheless.

I am still not quite sure about those lines, especially when the completely fill the horse hex instead of just partially bleeding in at the edges.

I was contemplating some sort of land ownership, or maybe those represent roads(like you would see between fields in a farm). Though that is generally found in more modern farming communities.

They radiate from all the farms, and they partially radiate from each of the cities. Look like roads which could naturally boundary each little field, and let the farms and cities naturally expand into adjacent hexes.

I can't seem to find it, could you please point it? If you are reffering to the unit in the bottom right corner... if you zoom it you can clearly see it's the same barbarian unit fortified in the fort, same club, helm and armor.

Actually, after comparing screen 2 to screen 3 I guess the guy in 2 isn't carrying a shovel. I suppose those are macemen.

Then I have to ask if that isn't a worker, then where is he?

While for farming and mining I would rather see the citizen build their own farms/mines, we do need workers for roads and whatnot unless those just naturally appear between worked areas and cities as a part of general economic activity.

It kind of puts those half finished farms into perspective. Perhaps the citizen is actually in the process of building them and the hex won't be full of fields until he has completed it?

Will be interesting to see where this goes.

[Procylon]

Went and found the other screens from civ fanatics.

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/s...riginal=1&c=36

This is like the screen from the official site, only it is wider. It has another interesting farm specimen to the west. There is also a small road just north of that which leads me to believe there is a city next to that road.

That leads me to believe that cultural borders are turned off or not available for a few of these screens rather than colony farms or destroyed cities(still possible though).

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/s...riginal=1&c=36

Another example of the nonstandard border expansion.

This time however, there are no farms. If citizens automatically made farms by working on them, I would expect them to be present.

So, either this screen is too early in game production or you really do need a worker that hasn't been visibile in the screens.

Also, look at the river in this screen. It seems to dead end at the city and also just on the other side of the mountains. Looks to be a good possible example of rivers coming from mountain glacier runoff and spreading out from those ranges.

[President Kyle]

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/b...mages.php?c=36

scroll down and your see more screenshot of cities, armies, and leaders

[Procylon]

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/b...mages.php?c=36

scroll down and your see more screenshot of cities, armies, and leaders

Hehe I just barely beat you to it.

There is 1 new screenshot there, with 1 other that is at a slightly wider angle than before.


That screenshot of the Hagia Sophia is pretty good. I am wondering if that is a wonder movie or if perhaps we will be able to go into city view mode. Most likely movie though. But damn, if all the movies look that good, rock on.

[Rakeesh14]

I can't seem to find it, could you please point it? If you are reffering to the unit in the bottom right corner... if you zoom it you can clearly see it's the same barbarian unit fortified in the fort, same club, helm and armor.

It's at the bottom right of the screen shot. Two workers standing in the centre of a tile.

[Procylon]

It's at the bottom right of the screen shot. Two workers standing in the centre of a tile.

Pretty sure that one is a warrior.

I thought the other guy near him was the worker, but after viewing the 3rd screenshot again it is likely those are macemen or something.

[Francesco82]

Pretty sure that one is a warrior.

I thought the other guy near him was the worker, but after viewing the 3rd screenshot again it is likely those are macemen or something.

Exactly, no worker in the screen.

I fear that, with the new borders expansion system workers could have been scrapped at all in favor of a different improvement system. I loved workers so I hope to be wrong, but in those screens you can see several improvemts but no worker.

[eireksten]

From the screenshots, it seems that the game is far from finished. So I wouldn't assume too much about how the game is played. How the farms look, for instance, might as well be because they are still developing how they should look. Also, I'm guessing some kind of debug mode has been used to set up the screenshots, which could easily explain the lack of workers.

That said, I'm loving the catapults I'm really hoping all units to a larger extent show graphically whether or not they've moved the current turn.

About the border expansion, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they were planning a new kind of border expansion where you "obtain" tiles one by one, and direct where you'd like to expand your borders next.

[vagabondpenguin]

Really curious why no one has mentioned a very obvious strangeness to the unit screenshots, Unit Formations.

So i see 3 right off the bat.
Archers are in a 6x2 arrangement.
Macemen are in a 3x3 arrangement.
Spearmen are in a 4x4 arrangement.

So what this says to me is that the formations are indicative of that units attack and defense (or life) points.

The idea that depth of the formation represents life points is strengthened further with another clue. There is an exception to the Macemen formation. The unit being fired upon is in a 4x2 arrangement. This seems to indicate that the unit has taken damage and is wounded.

Just my observations.
Also, I am a Civ 3 person so if this is nothing new in Civ 4, i apologize.

[Procylon]

I would like a link to any article, post, or blog where 2k/sid talked about border expansion in civ 5...

Really curious why no one has mentioned a very obvious strangeness to the unit screenshots, Unit Formations.

So i see 3 right off the bat.
Archers are in a 6x2 arrangement.
Macemen are in a 3x3 arrangement.
Spearmen are in a 4x4 arrangement.

So what this says to me is that the formations are indicative of that units attack and defense (or life) points.

The idea that depth of the formation represents life points is strengthened further with another clue. There is an exception to the Macemen formation. The unit being fired upon is in a 4x2 arrangement. This seems to indicate that the unit has taken damage and is wounded.

Just my observations.
Also, I am a Civ 3 person so if this is nothing new in Civ 4, i apologize.

Oh nice.

Whenever I looked at that spot something seemed to be out of place in the area the archers were firing at, but I didn't bother to count the number of guys down there... :P

I am tired so I can't remember the last place I saw a mechanic like that. Maybe empire earth or something.

I wonder if a maceman with 8 guys instead of 12 would actually do less damage each round of attacks or if he just has less life to fight with.

[Francesco82]

Just my observations.
Also, I am a Civ 3 person so if this is nothing new in Civ 4, i apologize.

I am tired so I can't remember the last place I saw a mechanic like that. Maybe empire earth or something.

Civ 4 already had that....
If a unit is made of 3 soldiers it means it has full health, 2 soldiers equals to about half health, 1/3 health or less if there's just 1 soldier. Nothing new there.

[Procylon]

Civ 4 already had that....
If a unit is made of 3 soldiers it means it has full health, 2 soldiers equals to about half health, 1/3 health or less if there's just 1 soldier. Nothing new there.

It was pretty small in Civ 4 though, in addition to infinite unit stacking. Health bars were the constant.

Now though, it will only be 1 unit on the tile and you will have even greater detail of his status.

I would like to see half health units also do half or at least less than full damage and defense too.

[rob42lou]

Personally im a little underwhelmed by the quality of the graphics, however i will admit the water looks 1000% better. But if any of you have played R.U.S.E. the style of realism is similar, but R.U.S.E.'s graphics are better.

And while yes i know its still a little early to condemn it i still wanted to point that out.

I would however like to point out that in the first screenshot (http://civilization5.com/img/screens...eenshot_01.jpg) archers are shooting arrows at units a tile away across water. So yay archers are finally a ranged unit.

[Pry87]

Also in screenshot 1 the unit they are firing at seem to have there arms over their heads trying to cover from the arrows, could be in for a visual treat with this one. Have to say I'm glad that it isn't as cartoony as Civ 4 and nothing like civ rev, although I expect civ rev was designed to bring in a new generation of civ fans, as I learnt when I tried to introduce a friend to civ 4 and he was a bit overwhelmed for quite a while.

[chongli]

The roads, farms and even buildings stretching into the water are really sloppy.

I hope they are not final.