Has Anyone Tried To Kill Grace Holloway or Stanley Poole?

[Ritean]

I was just wondering if anyone had tried (not even sure you can or not!?), to kill either Grace Holloway in Pauper's Drop once you finally confront her in her apartment secret hideout, or Stanley Poole locked in the security station at the train station at the end of that level when you finally get in and hear from Lamb and Eleanor confirming what he did?

I was just wondering how this might affect the outcome of the story, since at the end of the game, when Eleneaor is reflecting back on how you treated those you came across, the "vision" does show a clip of Grace and Stanley.

I've seen 3 endings so far (2 when harvested every Little Sister - your choice at the end), and the "good" ending.

I'm not really sure how many possible endings there are in this game, so was wondering if killing one or both of these characters would possbly give a 4th ending?.

[Docmeff]

You can kill Grace, Stanely and Gil. It affects the outcome of the story.

There is an achievement also for saving all three. It's called "Savior", appropriately enough.

[hatrox]

There are not four, not five, but six endings.
Deciding if you're gonna kill Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole or Gilbert Alexander is a moral choice, which does affect how the game ends, but not how it progresses. There was something about this in IGN...hold on...lemme just...there we go:
Good Ending, Sofia Lamb Lives Rescued all little sisters that you dealt with, and spared the life of at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

Good Ending, Sofia Lamb Dies
Rescued all little sisters that you dealt with, and killed all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

Neutral Ending, Sofia Lamb Lives
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to die at the end of the game, and spared the lives of all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

Neutral Ending, Sofia Lamb Dies
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to die at the end of the game, and killed at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

Bad Ending, Sofia Lamb Lives
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to live at the end of the game, and spared the lives of all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

or

Harvested all little sisters that you dealt with, and spared the lives of all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

Bad Ending, Sofia Lamb Dies
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to live at the end of the game, and killed at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

or

Harvested all little sisters that you dealt with, and killed at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

[Ritean]

You can kill Grace, Stanely and Gil. It affects the outcome of the story.

There is an achievement also for saving all three. It's called "Savior", appropriately enough.

I've got that achievment, didn't know what it was at first.

So, have YOU or anyone else you know killed either/all three of these characters, and you know how it ends up changing the game around? During gameplay? The ending(s)? etc.?

No spoilers, just curious......

(How many ending are there btw? Is there an official tally yet?)

[Ritean]

There are not four, not five, but six endings.
Deciding if you're gonna kill Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole or Gilbert Alexander is a moral choice, which does affect how the game ends, but not how it progresses. There was something about this in IGN...hold on...lemme just...there we go:
Good Ending, Sofia Lamb Lives Rescued all little sisters that you dealt with, and spared the life of at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

Good Ending, Sofia Lamb Dies
Rescued all little sisters that you dealt with, and killed all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

Neutral Ending, Sofia Lamb Lives
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to die at the end of the game, and spared the lives of all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

Neutral Ending, Sofia Lamb Dies
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to die at the end of the game, and killed at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

Bad Ending, Sofia Lamb Lives
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to live at the end of the game, and spared the lives of all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

or

Harvested all little sisters that you dealt with, and spared the lives of all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

Bad Ending, Sofia Lamb Dies
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to live at the end of the game, and killed at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

or

Harvested all little sisters that you dealt with, and killed at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

You must have been posting the same time as myself! lol

Wow! Those are crazy!

Given the situations, though, it seems that there really is only 3 possible endings......

[hatrox]

Given the situations, though, it seems that there really is only 3 possible endings......

There are three different types of endings, each containing two. While I don't know what exactly is the difference between each and every ending, I know there is one.

[Painman]

I've got that achievment, didn't know what it was at first.

So, have YOU or anyone else you know killed either/all three of these characters, and you know how it ends up changing the game around? During gameplay? The ending(s)? etc.?

No spoilers, just curious......

(How many ending are there btw? Is there an official tally yet?)

I killed all 3 in my last game for the totally evil ending... yes, it adds to the evil.

[Berringer]

For those that kill Grace, Stanley and let Gil live, what is different in the Little Sister segment of the game? Are the statues that you look at any different?

[hatrox]

Are the statues that you look at any different?

No. All of the Little Sisters went through a similar mental conditioning, teaching them to "love" and "worship" the Big Daddies. I don't see how your moral choices in the game and the Little Sisters' conditioning can have anything in common.

[Virtues]

Interesting that choosing to live is always considered a bad thing. I'll have to play the middle ground next time to find out why! Every time I play I die at the end...

[Sledgehammer]

No. All of the Little Sisters went through a similar mental conditioning, teaching them to "love" and "worship" the Big Daddies. I don't see how your moral choices in the game and the Little Sisters' conditioning can have anything in common.

The statues of "Daddy meets auntie Gracie", "Daddy meets uncle Stanley" and "Daddy meets Dr. Alexander" are different, yes. Not sure what exactly the difference is, though..

[hatrox]

The statues of "Daddy meets auntie Gracie", "Daddy meets uncle Stanley" and "Daddy meets Dr. Alexander" are different, yes. Not sure what exactly the difference is, though..

Oh, those!
I thought he was referring to the Big Daddy statues. Now, in both of my playthroughs I killed Stanley Poole (he simply deserves to die!) and let Grace and Dr. Alexander be, so I couldn't see the difference you are talking about. There should be a minor one, though. I'll have to check this in my next playthrough.

[Ritean]

I killed all 3 in my last game for the totally evil ending... yes, it adds to the evil.

rofl.

"adds to the Evil"...


I love that!

[Painman]

BioShock 2... Now with EvilPlus™ Technology!

[vampristic]

I kinda think killing Gil is the right thing to do, i mean he wants you too!

[Sledgehammer]

I kinda think killing Gil is the right thing to do, i mean he wants you too!

Gilbert was a sick bastard.

[hatrox]

I kinda think killing Gil is the right thing to do, i mean he wants you too!

The man who made those "diaries" is already dead. All that is left is a hollow but grotesque shell of his former self. Therefore the only grudge you may hold against him is because he sent a couple of splicers to kill you. But think about it - Grace did the same thing, because she was lied to by Sofia. Well, Gilbert too was manipulated by her. And yet most of the people would choose to save Grace, and kill Gilbert Alexander. Why is that?

[Ryan's number 1 fan]

You can kill Grace, Stanely and Gil. It affects the outcome of the story.

There is an achievement also for saving all three. It's called "Savior", appropriately enough.

Funny i got it by killing stanly AND gil

[FUCHI PATAS]

First time through, on HARD with Vita-Chambers OFF I saved EVERYTHING.
2nd time on EASY I killed/harvested EVERYTHING just for fun!

[Spaded_Pacman]

The man who made those "diaries" is already dead. All that is left is a hollow but grotesque shell of his former self. Therefore the only grudge you may hold against him is because he sent a couple of splicers to kill you. But think about it - Grace did the same thing, because she was lied to by Sofia. Well, Gilbert too was manipulated by her. And yet most of the people would choose to save Grace, and kill Gilbert Alexander. Why is that?

I thought of it as a mercy killing. The "real" man begged you to kill him. As you said he was already dead inside. As for Grace, I thought of her as someone just now realizing segregation and racism was a wrong thing and shouldn't be punished. I actually was surprised that was really incorporated in the game. Or maybe I'm just over thinking that level.

[TAK The Voyager]

I thought that saving Grace and Gil were pretty much the same thing. As hatrox said before, they were both used by Lamb.

Personally, I cannot do an evil walkthrough, I always spare those three. Plus, I don't Harvest the Little Sisters.

TAK

[PrivateJoker]

Of course! On my first playthrough I saved all the little sisters and killed all the killable characters.

[Soulmagika]

wait guys what do you mean "choosing to live"? How do you choose to live?! =/ I don't remember this..

[Ritean]

wait guys what do you mean "choosing to live"? How do you choose to live?! =/ I don't remember this..

If you harvest ( and don't rescue), all the Little Sisters, you have two choices at the end of the game you can make, each with a different ending.

You can save your progress after flooding Inner Persephone ( so you don't have to play all the way through again to see the second ending!)so you can see both options after choosing one of them to start.

[Splicedwhale]

I killed Alexander because it was the right thing to do...Though I don't know now did anyone else have to think about it?

I left Stanley to Rot and Grace was a lovely woman.....I saved all the LS

[desh90]

Interesting that choosing to live is always considered a bad thing. I'll have to play the middle ground next time to find out why! Every time I play I die at the end...

Likewise. I have noticed this to be true for Fallout 3 as well. When it comes time to choose who goes and turns on the Purifier, your character is frowned upon if you choose to have someone like Fawkes go in your stead. Why is self preservation considered a bad thing? I understand that one of the greatest, virtuous acts man can do is to lay down his life for another. However, in regards to the Bioshock 2 ending, what is wrong with Delta wanting to live on in order to continue life with Eleanor? Some of the morals in games like Bioshock 2 and Fallout 3 are...questionable.

[Subject Foxtrot]

im confused....... i did the bad ending and you said you choose to live????? so do you possess and take control of eleanor after she pokes you with her syringe? someone please set me straight

[mtl171]

im confused....... i did the bad ending and you said you choose to live????? so do you possess and take control of eleanor after she pokes you with her syringe? someone please set me straight

you don't take control eleanor after she pokes you with her syringe. she just takes your adam(and your memories). no matter which ending you get you still die.

[Subject Foxtrot]

ok so the only difference in good/bad endings is eleanor's attitude?

[hatrox]

ok so the only difference in good/bad endings is eleanor's attitude?

Well that and different ending videos.

[Gregory]

I saved Grace, Killed Stanley and Killed Gil. But on my runthrough to get Saviour, I saved them all.

[Slywolf15]

I wasn't sure about whether to kill Gil was the right or wrong choice. I guess it depends on your point of view. Considering the real Gil wants you to put him to rest and doesn't want to spend the rest of his life a psychotic, grotesque, being. While the Gil you see in the tank has lost his mind and lives on human instinct, as in trying to survive, which is why he doesn't want to die. Honestly myself, I don't think I would want to live on like that. Unaware of who I truly am and unable to make rational and intelligent thoughts and actions. To continue to live only for Adam which consumes your entire physical and mental being is a fate, I believe no one would want to live through. Although I will say I would prefer not to be electrocuted.

[Ritean]

I accidently killed Gil Alexander my last playthrough,,,,,I clouded out after getting the genetic key, and doubled black, because I thought I forgot something, and accidentally hit the switch!


***********MINOR SPOILER**********

This affects the look of the statue of "Daddy Meets Dr. Gilbert" when you become a Little Sister later on during Inner Persephone....It just shows that Sea Serpent wrapped around Delta.....I don't know if the serpent is representive of Gil's state of mind?

[Phil Isadore]

There are not four, not five, but six endings.
Deciding if you're gonna kill Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole or Gilbert Alexander is a moral choice, which does affect how the game ends, but not how it progresses. There was something about this in IGN...hold on...lemme just...there we go:
Good Ending, Sofia Lamb Lives Rescued all little sisters that you dealt with, and spared the life of at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

Good Ending, Sofia Lamb Dies
Rescued all little sisters that you dealt with, and killed all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

Neutral Ending, Sofia Lamb Lives
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to die at the end of the game, and spared the lives of all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

Neutral Ending, Sofia Lamb Dies
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to die at the end of the game, and killed at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

Bad Ending, Sofia Lamb Lives
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to live at the end of the game, and spared the lives of all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

or

Harvested all little sisters that you dealt with, and spared the lives of all of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, and Gilbert Alexander.

Bad Ending, Sofia Lamb Dies
Rescued at least one little sister and harvested at least one little sister, made the choice to live at the end of the game, and killed at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

or

Harvested all little sisters that you dealt with, and killed at least one of the following: Grace Holloway, Stanley Poole, or Gilbert Alexander.

Wait, so you can get the good ending even if you kill off Grace Stanley and Gil!? Sweet, I'm trying that next playthrough!

[grievous04]

I accidently killed Gil Alexander my last playthrough,,,,,I clouded out after getting the genetic key, and doubled black, because I thought I forgot something, and accidentally hit the switch!


***********MINOR SPOILER**********

This affects the look of the statue of "Daddy Meets Dr. Gilbert" when you become a Little Sister later on during Inner Persephone....It just shows that Sea Serpent wrapped around Delta.....I don't know if the serpent is representive of Gil's state of mind?

ya if you save gil the statue shows SPOILER delta pulling a man out of a serfant.

[Bigmac]

But if i save all of the little sisters and spare grace and Stanley but I kill off Gil do I still get the best ending

[watchman]

At the end you die. Residual memories as part of Eleanor isnt exactly 'still existing'. Hard to say how that exactly its a 'good' ending. Of course you are sort-of a zombie brought back from the grave, but a 'good' ending would be Tenenbaum breaking the self-destruct conditioning like she did Jacks various control issues. Since you had your own will you wouldnt be a will-less robot like the other Big Daddies and you could have at least gone back to Rapture to do some good (if you went to the surface you would likely wind up as an exhibit in Area 51)

[Atlas-]

At the end you die. Residual memories as part of Eleanor isnt exactly 'still existing'. Hard to say how that exactly its a 'good' ending. Of course you are sort-of a zombie brought back from the grave, but a 'good' ending would be Tenenbaum breaking the self-destruct conditioning like she did Jacks various control issues. Since you had your own will you wouldnt be a will-less robot like the other Big Daddies and you could have at least gone back to Rapture to do some good (if you went to the surface you would likely wind up as an exhibit in Area 51)

SPOILERS

It's not the good ending because of what happens to delta, it's the good ending because the little sisters are saved. In all but one ending you get 'saved' by Eleanor.

I wouldn't say delta didn't have free will, he got to choose how to treat Grace, Stanley and Gil as well as the little sisters. There was no control over him other than his need to save his own life by being close to Eleanor. Also Delta didn't die of the Conditioning he died of the tunnel full of explosives he walked into, and he wouldn't end up in Area 51 as Tenembaum could just reverse the process like with Porter.

[watchman]

Delta had free will (as far as you get it in the game (its the Big Daddies DONT have free will and Delta is different from THEM)

Wasn't Delta still dying because of his previously severed connection with Eleanor (when Sofia strangled her and temporarily killed her) ??

You probably were near (?) death many times in the game and just popped a medkit and were fine, so suddenly NOT having that true ... (or simply the plot calls for it so they can make happen anything they need no matter how inconsistant or illogical or against physics...)

[Atlas-]

Delta had free will (as far as you get it in the game (its the Big Daddies DONT have free will and Delta is different from THEM)

That's what I was saying, I thought you where inferring he didn't.

Wasn't Delta still dying because of his previously severed connection with Eleanor (when Sofia strangled her and temporarily killed her) ??

You probably were near (?) death many times in the game and just popped a medkit and were fine, so suddenly NOT having that true ... (or simply the plot calls for it so they can make happen anything they need no matter how inconsistant or illogical or against physics...)

There are two possibilities as far as I can see either:

Delta died of the severed connection with Eleanor causing his heart to stop and him die of natural causes and so the vita chambers didn't work.

OR

The tunnel Exploding severely damaged his already failing body. As he rose to the surface he was too far from any Vita Chambers to be resurrected.

Or it could be a combination either way Delta dies.