18 Civilizations. The chosen?

[paradigmx]

If we're being honest here, major American accomplishments such as the Manhattan Project and the moon landing where done with major Canadian involvement. It make no sense for Canada to develop a space program when they can assist with, and piggyback off of their ally's program.

A surprisingly large list of American technologies where invented in Canada.

As for Canada still being in the commonwealth, we are merely in name only and the British have no more control over Canada than your parents have over you (assuming you moved out of their basement)

[Hellogoodbye123]

If we're being honest here, major American accomplishments such as the Manhattan Project and the moon landing where done with major Canadian involvement. It make no sense for Canada to develop a space program when they can assist with, and piggyback off of their ally's program.

A surprisingly large list of American technologies where invented in Canada.

As for Canada still being in the commonwealth, we are merely in name only and the British have no more control over Canada than your parents have over you (assuming you moved out of their basement)

yea, but since they were American, they dont really get the credit, plus it was not only the canadians, wasnt einstein a key figure there? a german jew?..

[Edgemaniac]

yea, but since they were American, they dont really get the credit, plus it was not only the canadians, wasnt einstein a key figure there? a german jew?..

Listen, english unfortunatley very poorly distinguishes between Nationality and Origen

Einstein switched his nationality to AMERICAN when he switched his paperwork.

His ORIGENS however were german jew.

American is not so much obsessed with "Origin or Race", here we are all American (Nationality) citizens.

[paradigmx]

Don't get the credit? why? They are rightfully entitled to their fair share of the credit.

Anyway, my point still stands, America has no more right to be in the game than Canada does. Both are infantile nations in comparison to the other nations in the game. In the entire history of the world, the past 250 years are inconsequential.

[ancestral]

                              
                   I  II  III PTW C3C  IV War BTS  V
Americans          x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x   ✓
Arabs                          x   x   x   x   x   2
Austrians                          *            
Aztecs             x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x   3
Babylonians        x   x   x   x   x           x   4
Byzantines                     x               x   
Carthaginians      x       x   x       x   x   
Celts                  x       x   x       x   x   
Chinese            x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x   5
Dutch                          x               x   
Egyptians          x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x   6
English            x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x   7
Ethiopians                                     x   
French             x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x   8
Germans            x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x   9
Greek              x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x  10
Hittites                           x            
Holy Romans                                    x   
Incans                             x   x   x   x   
Indians            x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x  11
Iroquois                   x   x   x           *   
Japanese               x   x   x   x   x   x   x  12
Khmer                                          x   
Koreans                        x   x       x   x   
Malinese                               x   x   x   
Maya                               x           x   
Mongols            x   x       x   x   x   x   x  13
Native Americans       *   *   *   *           x   
Ottomans                       x   x       x   x   
Persians               x   x   x   x   x   x   x  14
Portuguese                         x           x   
Romans             x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x  15
Russians           x   x   x   x   x   x   x   x  16
Scandinavians                  x   x            
Sioux                  x                       *   
Spanish                x   x   x   x   x   x   x  17
Sumerians                          x           x   
Vikings                x       x   x       x   x   
Zulu               x   x   x   x   x       x   x  18

That's right, my guess is:

Most certain (14):
Americans (it's known), Aztecs, Chinese, Egyptians, English, French, Germans, Greek, Indians, Japanese, Persians, Romans, Russians and Spanish

Less certain (2):
Mongols, Zulu

Possible (2):
Babylonians, Arabs

Those are my 18.

[Hellogoodbye123]

Don't get the credit? why? They are rightfully entitled to their fair share of the credit.

Anyway, my point still stands, America has no more right to be in the game than Canada does. Both are infantile nations in comparison to the other nations in the game. In the entire history of the world, the past 250 years are inconsequential.

well i just say this because, i have civ rev, and i read the civilopedia like every civ description, and when i got to america, it says, that america wasnt gonna be in the game, and that there a young nation, but because of there great achievement, and fast growth in every branch of the game, they were deserved to be in the game,

advance in science-science
largest economy-economy
strongest military-domination
u.s.a composed of all immigrants-culture

ok we can accept canadians helped, but did they come up with the ideas? plus it wasnt all inventions, the u.s thought most of them.. like graham bell, communication, thomas edison, light bulb, and many great inventions the wright brothers..flight.. samuel morse, and the morse code, benjamin franklin, the lightning/electricity.. robert fulton, carlos goodyear.. etc.. etc

[doszhu]

=.= well no doubt there is china at least...... i just wish there will be an offical international language pack available.... (online download language pack is acceptable....)

[paradigmx]

Canada - electron microscope, IMAX, insulin, Compound Steam Engine, and Henry Woodward invented the light bulb in 1874 and sold the patent to Thomas Edison, who took full credit.

Also Bell invented the telephone in Canada, dunno where that fits in with your concept of "location denotes ownership".

[Hellogoodbye123]

btw, im not saying canada should not be in the game.. just want to say why americans are in the game..

i want mexico..

they created Colored tv!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...n_in_countries

- read under mexico, description

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guiller...A1lez_Camarena

http://www.famous-hispanic-inventors...zalez-camarena

3 sources!!!

[Hellogoodbye123]

hmm.. never knew that, il have to destroy my history teacher tomorrow.. lol

[Bumbaclot]

napoleon, lost at the end, just like hitler, and he was the hitler of back then.. except hitler did take it to extremes

I beg your pardon? Napoleon was nothing like Hitler. Napoleon actually brought greater freedoms to the regions he conquered in general. He was somewhat of a liberator.

His good treatment of the Jews was unusual for Europe during his time.

[Hellogoodbye123]

I beg your pardon? Napoleon was nothing like Hitler. Napoleon actually brought greater freedoms to the regions he conquered in general. He was somewhat of a liberator.

His good treatment of the Jews was unusual for Europe during his time.

i think the same way, but i've heard many historians talk bad about napoleon

they mentioned he crowned himself, became emperor, snatched the crown from the pope, and crowned himself before his wife..

he dishonored the deal with president jefferson, but yes i agree napoleon did effect france in a positive way..

[Bumbaclot]

i think the same way, but i've heard many historians talk bad about napoleon

they mentioned he crowned himself, became emperor, snatched the crown from the pope, and crowned himself before his wife..

he dishonored the deal with president jefferson, but yes i agree napoleon did effect france in a positive way..

Most historians talk bad about Napoleon because of geopolitical reasons. English historians will naturally present a negative characterization of Napoleon.

[Anikileitor]

Won't happen.
1. With Hitler as a leader they wouldn't be able to release the game in Germany, because the possibility to conquer the world as the Third Reich would lead to a ban. Even SSI's Panzer General faced a ban for young people because some text passages in the manual didn't show enough distance from the political message and the cruelty of the national-socialist ideology and their crimes against humanity. Only after the manual was altered the game could be sold again, but that wouldn't be enough for a Civ game.
2. It would be really insulting to us Germans. I think no one would like his people to be represented by one of the most evil men in Earth history. Most of the Germans living today never had anything to do with the Third Reich, and those who did were too young to prevent Hitler's takeover. We as a nation don't deserve to be reduced to 12 horrible years in our history. All the leaders of the civilizations in the Civ games are mostly seen positive by history, although not everything they did was okay. But Hitler is the personification of negative.
3. What sick f*ck would like to play as Hitler anyway?

I would like to have Hitler as a leader so I could kick his ass =9. There is no point on stopping that either, it will appear as a mod anyway. Besides, if germans are so upset with that, there are other 18 civs or leaders that they can click on and voila! the problem is solved.

[Qikdraw]

hmm.. never knew that, il have to destroy my history teacher tomorrow.. lol

LOL

Don't feel bad. There is lots taught in schools that is flat out wrong, or missing. Specially when it deals with history. Here is a good book to read.

One thing I have noticed being Canadian living in the US, is somewhat of a coloured view of American history. My wife & I actually have some really good discussions about it (she's American). But I think that every country does this to a greater or lesser degree.

If you are interested here is a list of the 'top 50 Canadian inventions'.

[Waphlez]

First off, very few inventions have the right of being "owned" by a nation as mankind as a whole builds off each other. Without things like Astronomy, Calculus, Physics, etc. which were developed by scientists and mathematicians all over the world, much of our technology and science would be far underdeveloped.

But if you do want to compare technological contribution schlongs, America has the bigger of the two nations. I think the main reason the US is justified as one of mankind's greatest civilizations is simply the philosophy and accomplishment of the American Revolution. Almost all governments of the "free world" are based off of American Democracy. People really take the American Revolution for granite. No other republic lasted more than a generation or two before the birth of the US, and the US had a lot more territory and people.

The argument that the US shouldn't be in the top 18 is a sound argument, there has been many civilizations in our past that are very remarkable. But the argument that if Canada isn't included, the US shouldn't is a very unsound argument. The US is a lot older and had some of the most radical philosophies/politics around when it came to be. Canada had more to model after and became sovereign (for the most part) via a peaceful diplomatic process where as the US Revolution was a very sudden and remarkable event. But like I said, all peoples have contributed to global society.

[Weaver]

First off, very few inventions have the right of being "owned" by a nation as mankind as a whole builds off each other. Without things like Astronomy, Calculus, Physics, etc. which were developed by scientists and mathematicians all over the world, much of our technology and science would be far underdeveloped.

But if you do want to compare technological contribution schlongs, America has the bigger of the two nations. I think the main reason the US is justified as one of mankind's greatest civilizations is simply the philosophy and accomplishment of the American Revolution. Almost all governments of the "free world" are based off of American Democracy. People really take the American Revolution for granite. No other republic lasted more than a generation or two before the birth of the US, and the US had a lot more territory and people.

The argument that the US shouldn't be in the top 18 is a sound argument, there has been many civilizations in our past that are very remarkable. But the argument that if Canada isn't included, the US shouldn't is a very unsound argument. The US is a lot older and had some of the most radical philosophies/politics around when it came to be. Canada had more to model after and became sovereign (for the most part) via a peaceful diplomatic process where as the US Revolution was a very sudden and remarkable event. But like I said, all peoples have contributed to global society.

But Canada has better beer, so really...

[Cashew]

I would like to have Hitler as a leader so I could kick his ass =9. There is no point on stopping that either, it will appear as a mod anyway. Besides, if germans are so upset with that, there are other 18 civs or leaders that they can click on and voila! the problem is solved.

It's a waste of time to implement an aspect of the game that you plan to have disused. It takes time and money to make games, and wasting either of those on some novelty like Hitler is completely inane. I mean, really, how many times can you mop the floor with his lil' mustache before you get bored of him?

At least other leaders bring a more substantial interest to the game. I really think the only reason he's even brought up is because of how controversial a figure he is in history. I mean, as a leader he really did nothing for his "civilization." What he did was more of an accomplishment on an individual level (in so far as attempted genocide is an individual goal).

[garyda]

Nope America didn't invent a lot of stuff. What we did do was make that stuff available in one form or the other to virtually everyone in the country and in dozens of others as well.

Oh and I'd like to drop the whole notion of leaders and let every one select from a pallet of possibilities for special talents. And you get to select a number of starting techs based on the difficulty level but you pick the one's you want rather than being told you start with this one and that one.

Napoleon was famous for his temper tantrums, but given the time frame in which he operated he was a bit better in most regards than most of his contemporaries in similar positions of power. He petty much ran the worlds first meritocracy.

[Anikileitor]

It's a waste of time to implement an aspect of the game that you plan to have disused. It takes time and money to make games, and wasting either of those on some novelty like Hitler is completely inane. I mean, really, how many times can you mop the floor with his lil' mustache before you get bored of him?

At least other leaders bring a more substantial interest to the game. I really think the only reason he's even brought up is because of how controversial a figure he is in history. I mean, as a leader he really did nothing for his "civilization." What he did was more of an accomplishment on an individual level (in so far as attempted genocide is an individual goal).

Yeah I could get bored probably...

But actually I wouldn't underestimate Hitler's actions inside germany. He wasn't only a man who jumped up and said "Kill the jews". I doubt that all the economic resources that were used to improve the german army and germany (to the benefit of non-jews) came out from screaming "sieg heil" and waving a flag with a swastika. He really had to improve germany's economy in order to have an army that scared the whole world at that time.

[RideASpaceCowboy]

My ideal list of civilizations and their respective leaders…

1) American Empire (Capitol: Washington, Leader: George Washington/ Ronald Reagan)
2) British Empire (Capitol: London, Leader: King Arthur/ Winston Churchill)
3) French Empire (Capitol: Paris, Leader: Charlemagne/ Napoleon)
4) Spanish Empire (Capitol: Madrid, Leader: Ferdinand)
5) German Empire (Capitol: Berlin, Leader: Kaiser Wilhelm/ Adolf Hitler)
6) Roman Empire (Capitol: Rome, Leader: Julius Caesar/ Caesar Augustus)
7) Greek Empire (Capitol: Athens, Leader: Alexander the Great)
8) Byzantine Empire (Capitol: Byzantium, Leader: Constantine)
9) Russian Empire (Capitol: Moscow, Leader: Peter the Great/ Joseph Stalin)
10) Egyptian Empire (Capitol: Memphis, Leader: Khufu / Ramses II)
11) Israelite Empire (Capitol: Jerusalem, Leader: David)
12) Babylonian Empire (Capitol: Babylon, Leader: Nebuchadnezzar)
13) Persian Empire (Capitol: Susa, Leader: Darius/ Xerxes)
14) Chinese Empire (Capitol: Beijing, Leader: Qin Shi Huang/ Mao Zedong)
15) Japanese Empire (Capitol: Tokyo, Leader: Hirohito)

Other prominent civilizations, such as the Vikings, Aztecs, Mongols, and Carthaginians, ought to be non-player character tribes.

[Anikileitor]

My ideal list of civilizations and their respective leaders…

1) American Empire (Capitol: Washington, Leader: George Washington/ Ronald Reagan)
2) British Empire (Capitol: London, Leader: King Arthur/ Winston Churchill)
3) French Empire (Capitol: Paris, Leader: Charlemagne/ Napoleon)
4) Spanish Empire (Capitol: Madrid, Leader: Ferdinand)
5) German Empire (Capitol: Berlin, Leader: Kaiser Wilhelm/ Adolf Hitler)
6) Roman Empire (Capitol: Rome, Leader: Julius Caesar/ Caesar Augustus)
7) Greek Empire (Capitol: Athens, Leader: Alexander the Great)
8) Byzantine Empire (Capitol: Byzantium, Leader: Constantine)
9) Russian Empire (Capitol: Moscow, Leader: Peter the Great/ Joseph Stalin)
10) Egyptian Empire (Capitol: Memphis, Leader: Khufu / Ramses II)
11) Israelite Empire (Capitol: Jerusalem, Leader: David)
12) Babylonian Empire (Capitol: Babylon, Leader: Nebuchadnezzar)
13) Persian Empire (Capitol: Susa, Leader: Darius/ Xerxes)
14) Chinese Empire (Capitol: Beijing, Leader: Qin Shi Huang/ Mao Zedong)
15) Japanese Empire (Capitol: Tokyo, Leader: Hirohito)

Other prominent civilizations, such as the Vikings, Aztecs, Mongols, and Carthaginians, ought to be non-player character tribes.

1)I would like to see lincoln instead of reagan
9)Sounds good, but it would be fun to see a lennin leaderhead, but a Stalin is fine too
10)No cleopatra?
11)Been thinking of the same for quite a while
15)same as 11 =9

Now that is a good leader roster =P

[Waphlez]

Adolf Hitler affected the world more than any other human being in history. Just because what he did is negative does not mean he should be ignored. Civilization has always provided war mongering possibilities and leaders/civics/governments that aid it. Fascism was an actual government type in Civ 3 Conquests, and a tech in Civ 4. Stalin, Kublai Khan, etc and many other Warmongers/dictators. It's just the controversy surrounding Hitler (mainly due to Germany's strict anti-Nazi guidelines) that prevents him from being included. It is in my honest educated opinion, that Stalin is a much worse human being than Hitler was, but he wasn't a Nazi, so he's okay.

Besides, how hard can it be to create a leader (which really in terms of content is just a portrait that needs to be added and a quick biography. If leaders have new unique features, surely it wouldn't be hard to make one for Hitler), and simply disable the leader for the German version?

[Weaver]

Adolf Hitler affected the world more than any other human being in history.

I feel Alexander the Great affected the world far more than hitler.

[Helstrem]

First, the Hitler discussion is pointless. The game would be banned in the German market if Hitler were one of the leaders. So regardless of how PC you think it is to not have him, it won't happen for simple business reasons. No argument you can come up with will change that reality.

As to RideASpaceCowboy's suggestions, I don't think the Israelites are really valid. The only real significance is Biblical, not historical.

For the Japanese, Hirohito was an almost powerless figurehead, it would be like selecting Elizabeth II as the leader of the English. Tokugawa Ieyasu is the clear historical choice with Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi as the outside choices.

I liked Civ IV's choice of Ramses the Great and Hatshepsut for Egypt. Cleopatra was nothing compared to them. Khufu would also be a good choice.

[KiwiRider]

Please keep Korean, there is Korean CIV game forum with about 80k active users. (http://cafe.daum.net/civ3) Please don't let them disappointed. My personal suggestion is King SeJong(Phi/Org) instead of WangKon (Fin/Pro) who is enlightened king, invented Korean alphabet with his scholars. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong)

[Deussu]

This all comes to the question "what is a civilization". At least with me it does. Some say America (or USA) shouldn't be a civilization because it's so 'young'. Regardless of its short history and origin as a colony of England, it was and is a civilization. Possibly USA is the only mixture of different civilizations in the course of history.

Although I'm Finnish, I'm not going to start saying Finland needs to be a civilization. Finland was mainly under the rule of Sweden or Russia. No real cultural identity before 1917 other than the moonspeak we use.

And that thing about Canada? Sorry, you were a colony along with USA, but they just outshadowed you.

Personally I consider Ottomans to be a very important civilization. It was a huge nation that lasted for over 600 years (1299-1923) and spanned as large as Rome in its best days. See more here. They also have a very known leader, Suleiman.

Despite the successes of the Ottoman Empire, it was still a successor of the Byzantine. Practically then they are the same. Which one to choose? I'd still pick Ottomans.

One could go on about what civilizations should be included. There are just so many to choose. You'd probably think some countries like Bulgaria or *cough* the Islamic Empire. And then there are some that deserve to be included by default, like Portugal, but instead only Spain is included. Hunnic, Dutch, Kalmar Union, Neo-Assyrian Empire, Harappan civilization, Minoan... I could go on.

[saksingj]

18 civilizations? Right.. another 7 or 8 are coming with the first expansion pack a year later and another 8 with a second expansion pack another year later.

[camarilla]

18 civilizations? Right.. another 7 or 8 are coming with the first expansion pack a year later and another 8 with a second expansion pack another year later.

well, hello. this is my 1st post on this forum, for the sake of civ5.

i believe 18civs are less. i also assume that they will increase the number with EPs. wise enough marketing we already had 32 in civ4 BTS.

my ideal 18 would be the following

1) egyptian
2) persian
3) greek
4) roman
5) chinese
6) indian
7) aztec
8) inca
9) turkish ~ottoman
10) mongol
11) german
12) english
13) french
14) spanish
15) american
16) arabian
17) russian
18) zulu

[ohbuggerit]

Personally i'd like to see a system of multiple leaders for each civililization- perhaps a new one for each era. They could come in randomly, and bring different benefits and penalties to your civilization. So you could have been playing through the ancient era playing with an aggressive leader with military benefits and then have to alter your playing style when a peace loving type leader gains power in the middle ages.

Medieval war does that quite well with different fictional kings coming in with beneficial and sometimes non beneficial traits.

[CptMarvelous]

Canada needs to be a civ!

[SanderThomas]

I think the Dutch should return in game!
Tiny country, tiny civ, but with some great contributions to history!

characteristics:
strong economy and diplomacy
immune to sea level rise and floods
ability to impolder land
+10 happiness from liberal law
+10 health (longest life expectancy)
+10 science


dutch inventions:
- delta works, ☺☺☺☺s, polders
- stock exchange and multinational company
- microscope and telescope
- pendulum clock
- electrocardiograph
- compact disc
- sawmill
- speed camera (sorry for that )
- submarine
- artificial kidney

besides that the dutch discovered:
- bacteria
- spermatozoa
- infusoria
- australia
- photosynthesis
- rings of Saturn

military:
- thales goalkeeper, +1 defense against against incoming missiles and ballistic shells

plus!
- the dutch founded New Amsterdam, nowadays known as New York City
- the dutch stole the British flagship Royal Charles
- the dutch co-founded the EU

special resources: Cheese and tulips

[Rhygar]

I would say Canada is not distinct enough from the USA to be included. Perhaps in an expansion, but not in the initial 18 civs. The USA as a name is prominent enough in the world to represent the whole of North America.

Otherwise the Irish, Welsh and Scots should all be in the 18 as they are far more culturally and linguistically distinct from the English that Canada is from the US. I still have no way of knowing the difference between a Canadian or American... but go to the UK and you WILL know when you speak to a Scot!

No offense intended of course, some of my best friends of Scottish.

[Caleidoscope]

No matter what we do, the game will come with a lot of anachronistic features. To solve that i would recommend to make people able to customize their civilizations more based on cultural and geographical terms. So instead of the Zulus, you would have an expansive african nation, and instead of America, you would have a former colony, united against its former imperial power.

But to be realistic, it would not sell!.
To be honest i think we are stuck with the civilizations that have coloured our history and the contrafactic history that we'd try and spell out gamewise will be somewhat misconstrued and an anachronistic mismatch of sorts - but still a very enjoyable game.

i think we'll see the best from civ IV, and offcourse being a Dane i hope for a nation of vikings, but i am willing to wait for those in a further expansion.

[JefA]

I think the reason Hitler has never been included among the leaders is obvious: He lost, and left his nation in shambles.

Obviously, many leaders have committed atrocities, but nearly every leader featured in Civilization has expanded their respective cultures, whereas Hitler actually managed to lose his whole country to complete surrender a mere 6 years after starting his war.

Not exactly worthy of being on the same scale as Alexander or Caesar. That being said, why is DeGaulle a leader?

I'd go for this. Hitler may have been a madman that killed nearly as many as stalin but a great leader - No. undeniably charismatic but "Screamer" is not in the same league as Frederick or Bismarck


Dont understand DeGaulle either surely Clovis or Charlenagne of the Franks a better choice

[Edmundrw]

actually no country in the "Americas" is chosen to be a civ,

1. they are not old enough
2. all other than the native americans, aztec, mayans, incas etc.. because they were here for a long time

3. the reason why the u.s.a is here is because of the great achievement, it took the u.s. about 250 years to modernize, create the largest economy, create the most advances in science.. the u.s.a is made up of almost every race, religious group.. and ect etc.. the u.s.a also has compsed the strongest naval, areal, and land military.. while it took every other country thouands of years!!!

it took them thousands of years to create a proper govt.. the english atleast kinda made progress with magna carta.. but still in monarcy.. plus most civilizations has a aristocratic hierarchy, while in the u.s. that did not work.. if you wanted to have a good life, you worked hard.. and that motivated many americans.. they startted to understand that inventions were the ones that created the cash.. so they started thinking, while other nations.. not sure what they were doing.. kinda just waiting for advanced countries to invent everything.. not sure

Seems that the American master-race still hasn't evolved the ability to reason though. The logic that America's great achievement is 'getting to modernity quicker than everyone else' is mind-numbingly flawed. It got there in less time because it existed for less time. That is all. If America had been founded 1000 years earlier then it would not have embraced liberalism, democracy and capitalism. America required, at least, the proof of concept of the FRENCH revolution, the ENGLISH philosopher John Locke and SCOTTISH economist Adam Smith. 'Proper government' is defined by your place and time so it's an utter joke to say it 'took thousands of years to create a proper government'.
Aside from that how comes it took America so much longer than Britain to Abolish slavery? How comes America still hasn't granted citizens universal healthcare? All seems pretty backward to me...

All that being said... I don't think Canada should be a Civ

[JefA]

I would say Canada is not distinct enough from the USA to be included. Perhaps in an expansion, but not in the initial 18 civs. The USA as a name is prominent enough in the world to represent the whole of North America.

Otherwise the Irish, Welsh and Scots should all be in the 18 as they are far more culturally and linguistically distinct from the English that Canada is from the US. I still have no way of knowing the difference between a Canadian or American... but go to the UK and you WILL know when you speak to a Scot!

No offense intended of course, some of my best friends of Scottish.

Is Canda even one country.. from the outside it appears to be 2 stictched together accross an unbreakable Quebecois line.

This may be my poor external perception of course

America has to be there so Americans buy the game...and to an extent that melting pot has somehow managed to distill a distinct culture.

As to Scots welsh Irish Cornish Breton. The old Celtic covered them well enough for me. (Speaking as an English Irish Scots Welsh hybrid)

[Rhygar]

As to Scots welsh Irish Cornish Breton. The old Celtic covered them well enough for me. (Speaking as an English Irish Scots Welsh hybrid)

Mmm... I didn't think of that. You got me there!

Fortunately the name "American" is aptly generic enough for all North Americans in my opinion. Wanting Canada is as silly as me (South African) wanting the inclusion of the Afrikaner or Boer people from South Africa. Up to now I have had to satisfy myself in Civ IV assuming the Dutch identity. Closest I could get.

[Ares_the_devil]

No other republic lasted more than a generation or two before the birth of the US, and the US had a lot more territory and people.

You Know that in 1588 the "Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden"(Dutch) came into being. This republic survived till 1795. I guess it's more then two generations.

BTW Sorry for my bad English

I really think that the USA and Canada should be something like in Empire Total war. If you capture France in Europe then Quebec arise. In BTS is also a colonial feature. Maybe something like that would be nice in Civ5.

BTW Hitler was not German he was an Austrian

[Oosh]

Canada is the second largest country in the world...

Incorrect - Canada is the 4th Largest country by land area*.

If that's your criteria then here's our 18 'Civilizations'.

1) Russia
2) China
3) United States
4) Canada
5) Brazil
6) Australia
7) India
8) Argentina
9) Kazakhstan (w/ Borat as a selectable Leader? )
10) Algeria
11) Sudan
12) Democratic Republic of the Congo
13) Greenland
14) Saudi Arabia
15) Mexico
16) Indonesia
17) Libya
18) Iran

Edit: *Any other size comparison is largely moot (not many of us live on boats) and too open to dispute, caveats, and disputes over caveats. Observe: Australia is #2 with ~23.5 million sq km if we include Economic Exclusion Zones and Antarctic Claims.