some of the graphics......

[Nihil]

I think the grapphics in bioshock in all the vid's i've seen almost everything looks real the little girls the water and all that stuff.... but um like i know there still touching things up and i'm hoping this is what there touching up the the graphics of the fire and some of the plasmids tha shoot things out of ur hand are kind of at playstation 2 standards and ruins the good graphics of the rest of it for me, not to be bashing bioshock cause i love the game already it's a definat buy for me but i just really hope that something hey fix.

[splicer]

I'd agree with you about the fire,it looks a little primitive in some of the early videos,though I'm pretty sure its going to be polished for the full game.Sometimes develpers use whats called"place keeping" which basically just means they put a rough version of whatever they want while the game is being made and then replace it later with the final version.

[Jeff]

Fire is perhaps the sole hardest element to recreate in virtual form, due to it's fairly irratic nature it's near impossible to create an alogrithm for, other than telling fire "burn this when you touch it, ignite that when you touch" you can't realistically tell fire how to move and how to burn.

That being said, I don't think you should get your hopes up too high, but I believe a flatscreen HD set and a dark room will drastically improve the look of alot of the stuff we've already seen. Afterall, 90% of what he've seen has been SD video's compressed for better downloads.

[Havok4]

I actually think the hardest element to create in real time would be dynamic water. But one thing that does seem to stand out as oddly bad graphics is the smoke, which seems very flat and simple.

[Rapture_Survivalist]

I actually think the hardest element to create in real time would be dynamic water. But one thing that does seem to stand out as oddly bad graphics is the smoke, which seems very flat and simple.

Yeah, the best smoke i've seen in a while was Call of Duty 2. It was realistic and looked awsome.

But I really don't think we should worry about the plasmid graphics though, I'm sure they will look better when the game actually releases.

[sajuuk]

I suspect they didn't improve those graphical effects due to the limitation of the xbox360 hardware.
The 360 probably won't going to run at stable 30 FPS if the graphics look fancier as it is now.

And btw. After seeing the amazing destructive foliage video of Crysis, I really hope they use better physics engine in Bioshock rather than just Havok 3, which is already being done in games like Half-Life2 and Company of Hero.

[Fennerman]

yeah I also believe the xbox360 limits the game's visuals... It's not a very powerful console to be honest... not now at least. I have seen it stutter in games like Tomb Raider (which doesn't have amazing graphics) in open areas... They have been pushing the console's limits from the time it came out... Oblivion already wasn't as pretty as in a powerful pc... even less now. Anyway, in my opinion Bioshocks fire it's too saturated, like it was brilliant in it's very border as in it's center... I guess having smaller saturated "boiling points" and more opaque borders would do a nice effect... It just looks too cartoonish the way it's now... For me at least. I don't know how is it going to be in the game itself... perhaps it will go fine with the graphic style.

[Nihil]

hey hey blamin it on the 360 ihave seen some of the best water and fire effects even on the original xbox and that's one of the things why it kicked the ps2's ass, so you pc owners dont start flaming cause the limits of the 360 have yet to be met, anyways i do hope it's what splicer said in the begining and it will be replaced, and whoever it was that said the thing about the hd i appreciate ur feedback on that fire is hard to create i agree but as i said i've seen better, and also a big hd in the dark yeah like the majority of the population even in the united states can't even afford a tiny hdtv....

[Raveness]

Holy hell, Nihil you're king of the run-on sentence. "He just kept talking in one long, incredible unbroken sentence, moving from topic to topic so that no one had a chance to interrupt, it was really quite hypnotic".

I agree that you shouldn't count out the XBOX360's limitations just yet. Microsoft is offering more advanced SDK kits to developers and even users, moreso than the competition, and one thing the little big box has is scalability if the tech-heads read the schematics correctly.

[witch]

Holy hell, Nihil you're king of the run-on sentence. "He just kept talking in one long, incredible unbroken sentence, moving from topic to topic so that no one had a chance to interrupt, it was really quite hypnotic".

I agree that you shouldn't count out the XBOX360's limitations just yet. Microsoft is offering more advanced SDK kits to developers and even users, moreso than the competition, and one thing the little big box has is scalability if the tech-heads read the schematics correctly.

Seriously, isn't it the case that the graphics tend to be much better near the end of a consoles life. Developers need time with the thing.

[Raveness]

Seriously, isn't it the case that the graphics tend to be much better near the end of a consoles life. Developers need time with the thing.

Exactly! Mortal Kombat isn't about death, but life Mortal men and........

Some of the latter PS2 titles looked better than some concurrent PC releases. Talented graphical programmers can eek out some really great visuals on consoles. That being said, I've heard a lot of angry mumbling that the PS3 is too inaccessible in that department; the XBOX360 can shoot for the stars.

[Corgano]

Exactly! Mortal Kombat isn't about death, but life Mortal men and........

Now that, THAT cracked me up! I guess because I don't own any of those games, but do own the 2 movies and soundtracks. LOL! Cheesy, I know... but... I like them!

[witch]

Exactly! Mortal Kombat isn't about death, but life Mortal men and........

Some of the latter PS2 titles looked better than some concurrent PC releases. Talented graphical programmers can eek out some really great visuals on consoles. That being said, I've heard a lot of angry mumbling that the PS3 is too inaccessible in that department; the XBOX360 can shoot for the stars.

Yeah, it's supposed to be a pain in the ass to develop for the ps3, however I heard Sony released some new tools or something to help the problem.

[Nihil]

Holy hell, Nihil you're king of the run-on sentence. "He just kept talking in one long, incredible unbroken sentence, moving from topic to topic so that no one had a chance to interrupt, it was really quite hypnotic".

I agree that you shouldn't count out the XBOX360's limitations just yet. Microsoft is offering more advanced SDK kits to developers and even users, moreso than the competition, and one thing the little big box has is scalability if the tech-heads read the schematics correctly.

haha thnx raveness yeah i'm just too lazy for all the punctuation crap cause i dont' say period at the end of every sentence when i'm talking whatever

[sajuuk]

Seriously, isn't it the case that the graphics tend to be much better near the end of a consoles life. Developers need time with the thing.

Then shouldn't Bioshock consider a delay if the devs need more time to dig-out the xbox360 potential?

Seriously, I don't want to see the PC graphics being dragged down because of 360.
I agree about the fire, it need to be improved! Those smoke and explosion effect from the trailer aren't impressive either, they look like fire-cracker going off.

This is a DX10 title man, and I deman top-notch graphics for my $4000 sig!

[Fennerman]

perhaps we are speculating too much... There are visual styles... maybe the smoke or the fire goes with the game's visual style and when we play it we may realize it fits perfectly

[Corgano]

haha thnx raveness yeah i'm just too lazy for all the punctuation crap cause i dont' say period at the end of every sentence when i'm talking whatever

I do some editing for an IGN board, and you would drive me crazy! Or, more crazy than I am! Hehe, it's all good though.

As far as the graphics go, I believe that they will create a good balance between realism and CPU intensive. I will bet that in a world where such detail is taken to create the environment and mood, that they will blend in the fire and smoke to fit well.

Peace,
Cor

[Raveness]

haha thnx raveness yeah i'm just too lazy for all the punctuation crap cause i dont' say period at the end of every sentence when i'm talking whatever

Ahh I see. Didn't realize you were using dictation software, not something one would automatically assume.

@ Corgano: What about steam effects? Since fire and water are prevalent in the game, not only from sources but from player induced actions, will we see some graphically sound white steam?

[Nihil]

yeah sorry, i just write alot of poetry and music and stuff so when it comes to this it feels like a chore like i'm writing a persuasive essay for ap english or soething haha, but yeah steam graphics are hard to pull off too apparently but it would be nice.

[Corgano]

@ Corgano: What about steam effects? Since fire and water are prevalent in the game, not only from sources but from player induced actions, will we see some graphically sound white steam?

*Nods* A very good point. It's in the little details that give the game that extra something special.
While steam/smoke rising from a stationary object is easy to do, the steam/smoke of something that was on fire and rapidly extinguished is harder to do, but not impossible. Likewise the sound affects occuring as well. And don't forget about cold/ice. It may not be dry ice, but...

However, I would not expect the water to boil when you place something hot into it. The water may be the most realistic looking water, but there's limits to the interactions placed upon it during devolopment. (IE: That wouldn't be a priority)


Peace,
Cor

[Bartekk]

I'm not judging the graphics months before games release. But it is true that say screenshots from 28.09.2006 and any other that came out after that date look either blurred, badly compressed or overbloomed. Every single shot and I have no idea why.

As for weak points, definetly lightnings look like ☺☺☺☺. I mean, come on, it's 2007. THESE are 2007 lightnings? Nope. I've seen better lightning effects in Diablo 2, 2D game released 7 years ago.

[Bioshock_FTW!]

I'm not judging the graphics months before games release. But it is true that say screenshots from 28.09.2006 and any other that came out after that date look either blurred, badly compressed or overbloomed. Every single shot and I have no idea why.

As for weak points, definetly lightnings look like ☺☺☺☺. I mean, come on, it's 2007. THESE are 2007 lightnings? Nope. I've seen better lightning effects in Diablo 2, 2D game released 7 years ago.

They look like they were done with sprites, just like water splashes. Most 3D generated trees and foliage these days are still rendered using sprites. System resources has to be put into consideration with things like this. Chances are good they are very well animated so it will look good in-game. Don't judge a book by it's cover...or a game by it's screen shot.

[Bartekk]

Bioshock_FTW!
First, I said that I'm not (ultimately) judging graphics before the release, didn't I?

I know that these are sprites, but that's not the point. They just look terrible (both static and in motion, judging from shots and videos), maybe it's about colors or shapes. Something just feels really sloppy about them, totally different level of quality compared to what we see in the background.

[Bioshock_FTW!]

Bioshock_FTW!
First, I said that I'm not (ultimately) judging graphics before the release, didn't I?

Yea you did my bad.

I dun reed 2 gud n my memry is evn werse. So i tend to forget things people say when i'm trying to respond to them. ☺☺☺☺in short term memory loss.