One must die, Lamb or Sinclair: Who do you choose? (Spoilers)

[Kyburz]

I was thinking about this today, trying to imagine some of the potentially difficult moral dilemmas that might arise over the course of the game, and let's say at one point you are given a conundrum that would require you to kill Sinclair or Lamb. Who would you choose? It's a tough choice. Tougher, I think than Ryan or Atlas would have been, at least before the reveal.

On one hand

Augustus Sinclair

Pros:
-Suave Georgian accent, and from what we know, one of your two best allies.
-Actually tries to talk you out of killing Holloway in one of the Polish videos, which surprised me.
-Science background potentially useful

Cons:
-Greedy, self-centered capitalist (see audio diary on the site)
-Sold toys with needles in them to kids
-Talks about "selling your blood on the surface".seems to be highly untrustworthy

On the other hand:

Sofia Lamb
Pros:
-Intelligent, powerful, and cute
-For better or worse, seems to speak to you honestly. At least you know where she stands.
-A certain nobility in her philosophy centered around the common good.

Cons:
-Rules Rapture with an iron fist
-Wants to maintain the Little Sister/ADAM ecology
-Created a crazy cult around with that creepy Father Wales guy.

Man it's a tough call, a real tough call. I don't think i can even cast my vote yet, let's hear some arguments.

[Codex]

Before I make any argument one way or the other, can we only kill one?

[Gregory]

I dunno, this Sinclair guy seems kinda fishy, but then again he's not the one trying to kill you.

[BeatlesGeorge]

I need to know more about them but your right Sofia Lamb IS SEXY

girls with glasses are the rage in video games these days

[Kyburz]

Before I make any argument one way or the other, can we only kill one?

Yep, so you have to choose wisely, you bloodthirsty wench.

[mannyfresh10]

Sinclair will most likely betray u like how Atlas did

[Gregory]

Yep, so you have to choose wisely, you bloodthirsty wench.

But I would rather kill Lamb. She's pretty much a power controlling maniac, and I don't like those kind of people (especially girlfriends).

[Circus_of_Value]

Im killing Sinclair.
SIN is in his name!
At least Lamb is respectful.
She isnt doing anything wrong except for salvaging and healing Rapture to its former glory.

[Gregory]

Im killing Sinclair.
SIN is in his name!
At least Lamb is respectful.
She isnt doing anything wrong except for salvaging and healing Rapture to its former glory.

I dunno. Its a hard decision you must agree.

[Codex]

Yep, so you have to choose wisely, you bloodthirsty wench.

Hurm... Well then. I shall have to write down some convincing arguments as to why they should BOTH be slaughtered, and choose the one that is a less appealing villain to me.

Lamb is insane. Now, she isn't as bad as say Cohen, but she's pretty distraught. Since Elanor has been confirmed to be her daughter and at one time a Little Sister, this is not all that surprising. A mother's separation from her child, especially as what appears to be as punishment for disagreeing with Ryan, is a terrible thing to have to live through.

Nonetheless, I cannot help but think that it is her own doing. She helped Ryan, at least as evidenced by the tape today. I believe that if she truly were concerned about her morals, she would be able to have denied his requests for assistance. I'm a firm believer that if you believe in something, you don't compromise those beliefs by assisting those in something you believe is morally wrong.

Sinclair, on the other hand, is a slimy little bastard. At this point, I cannot determine ANY redeeming feature. He's your typical Randian "capitalist," maybe he's even the Toohey of Bioshock 2. As such, he's predictable and a lot more easy to trust when you realize you cannot trust a thing he says.

As such, because Lamb offends me so, even though Sinclair is beyond redemption, I vote that Lamb has to be offed. She's too unstable, too dangerous. At least with Sinclair you can watch and understand him and the extent of where he's going to betray you in his own interests. Lamb... Lamb you just cant trust.

[gaminking]

hmmm i think id prob kill lamb. i mean shes formed a freakin cult to satisfy her ideals and from what ive seen i think her ideals are getting away from her and being twisted and sinclair well hes scum to but scum with Georgian accent i mean really people what more do u want. although when it comes down to it id prob drop both of them for a little extra adam

[Circus_of_Value]

I dunno. Its a hard decision you must agree.

it was a bit tough...
but i never trusted Sinclair

[gaminking]

but i never trusted Sinclair

ya but you can trust at some point hell try to shank you one, at least you know its coming.

[Kyburz]

Hurm... Well then. I shall have to write down some convincing arguments as to why they should BOTH be slaughtered, and choose the one that is a less appealing villain to me.

Lamb is insane. Now, she isn't as bad as say Cohen, but she's pretty distraught. Since Elanor has been confirmed to be her daughter and at one time a Little Sister, this is not all that surprising. A mother's separation from her child, especially as what appears to be as punishment for disagreeing with Ryan, is a terrible thing to have to live through.

Nonetheless, I cannot help but think that it is her own doing. She helped Ryan, at least as evidenced by the tape today. I believe that if she truly were concerned about her morals, she would be able to have denied his requests for assistance. I'm a firm believer that if you believe in something, you don't compromise those beliefs by assisting those in something you believe is morally wrong.

Sinclair, on the other hand, is a slimy little bastard. At this point, I cannot determine ANY redeeming feature. He's your typical Randian "capitalist," maybe he's even the Toohey of Bioshock 2. As such, he's predictable and a lot more easy to trust when you realize you cannot trust a thing he says.

As such, because Lamb offends me so, even though Sinclair is beyond redemption, I vote that Lamb has to be offed. She's too unstable, too dangerous. At least with Sinclair you can watch and understand him and the extent of where he's going to betray you in his own interests. Lamb... Lamb you just cant trust.

Well said, I can't really argue with your reasoning too much.

In the end though, I personally had to choose killing Sinclair, which was a more difficult decision than I had expected being a big Lamb fan.

You make a good point that Sinclair can be considered more predictable in that he will always look out for his own interests above everything else. But I chose Lamb because I feel she has a greater chance of redemption than Sinclair.

I will grant you, I think she is probably kinda messed up in the head, and her choice of re-creating the ADAM economy is a considerable point against her (especially when you remember that one of the victims was none other than our very own Cindy).But I think that maybe at some point, under the right circumstances, she might pull a Darth Vader and commit some act of self-sacrifice to save everyone (maybe throw Father Wales down a reactor shaft or something).

I don't know, it is a tough call though. Maybe Sinclair will win my heart over the course of the game.

[Codex]

I will grant you, I think she is probably kinda messed up in the head, and her choice of re-creating the ADAM economy is a considerable point against her (especially when you remember that one of the victims was none other than our very own Cindy).But I think that maybe at some point, under the right circumstances, she might pull a Darth Vader and commit some act of self-sacrifice to save everyone (maybe throw Father Wales down a reactor shaft or something).

I don't know, it is a tough call though. Maybe Sinclair will win my heart over the course of the game.

You know, if she does end up throwing Wales down a pit, I would expect him to go down shooting electro bolt and cackling.

The question is though, does one act of self sacrifice mean she's redeemed? She hurt children, several of them (including Cindy). More over, we don't know really why Elanor was a LS. For all we know, Lamb could have volunteered her for the project or something...

Maybe I am a little bit against Lamb (collectivism, especially hive like collectivism, really isn't my political leaning) and slightly more inclined towards Sinclair because I see him as being very "predictable" as an enemy, but watch, I will probably be proven wrong within the first three or four levels of the game.

[Kyburz]

You know, if she does end up throwing Wales down a pit, I would expect him to go down shooting electro bolt and cackling.

Damn you, I was literally LOLing at this.

The question is though, does one act of self sacrifice mean she's redeemed? She hurt children, several of them (including Cindy). More over, we don't know really why Elanor was a LS. For all we know, Lamb could have volunteered her for the project or something...

That's a good point, and maybe she can't redeemed, but to the extent that redemption is possible at all, I would say she is more likely to do so.

[magicman4443]

I felt I had to kill Sinclair. While Lamb is the main villain, and wants to kill you, here initial ideals weren't bad. The Altruistic belief isn't necessary a bad one, but she's unfortunately taken it to such an extreme that it's become nothing. With Sinclair though, I get the feeling that he's just plain deceitful and evil. His only interest in helping you is to help him. In short, Lamb started out well, and became evil later. Sinclair has always been evil in my mind.

[Codex]

She may be more likely to, but it depends on how it can be swung. If Sinclair's world could be organized to make it seem like the only way for him to make a profit was to "do the right thing" he'd be very easy to "redeem." Its all about the perception of it; it could swing either way depending on how you frame it.

[thrall23]

I have no idea I like them both, I need to learn more until I can decide

[ADAM junkie]

i see sinclair as more morally evil.
but isnt it funny how both of them have gained something thru their evil deeds?

sinclair is a rich tycoon who uses helps others to only help himself
lamb is becoming powerful by exploting and brainwashing others

i like both of them, they r deliciously evil

[magicman4443]

Very interesting.... Still a perfect 50/50 split.

[Rapture-Stingers-QB]

I think this debate is much more interesting because we really don't know all the facts. We're basing our arguments on what we've seen which is very little in the grand scheme of things. So, I don't think I can decisively say for sure which way I'd go unless I had all the cards on the table.

However, I think for Rapture as a whole it would be better for Sinclair to go. Say what you will about Lamb resurrecting the ADAM culture, but in a twisted way, she's created a stability that hasn't been seen since before the Civil War. Sure, you can argue that it's not very stable at all, but it really seems like a start. Lamb may be damaged. She may be certifiably insane. However, her heavy-handedness just may be exactly what Rapture needs to get back on its feet: a strong leader with intense convictions that just demands your attention and in some cases can breed frightening loyalty. I hate to use it as an example, but look at Germany post-WWI. Battered, beaten, collapsing. The Weimar Republic was not the answer. Enter the Nazis. Heavy-handed, strong leader, intense convictions. I think the frightening loyalty speaks for itself.

Is it ideal for Rapture? Hell no. But how on earth could it possibly rise again with half-measures, waffling and compromise? It couldn't. Lamb's system and trains of thought are highly dangerous. Unfortunately, it just might be Rapture's best chance at revival.

Sinclair, on the other hand, is the last visage of Ryan's dream. We all know how that dream failed. Sinclair's made it clear that he's in it to win it and the team consists of one man: Augustus Sinclair. That automatically spells the death of Rapture. With Lamb out of the way, Sinclair could have free reign to auction off whatever technology he wanted. He'd consume Ryan's dream from within. A Rapturian who'd willfully kill Rapture for their own good. It's deliciously perverse. Encourage an attitude of rabid capitalism and in the end, the very place that made it possible becomes just another token in the pot.

Ask me again after the release and I'll be able to say who I'd personally want to off. As of right now, based on what I know, I think I can only opine on what I think is best for Rapture. I'm probably wrong, but hoo boy, who wasn't wrong down there?

[Rapture Metro]

I'm gonna have to go with Sinclair rapture stingers is right you have to think about what's best for our beloved city

[ADAM junkie]

I'm gonna have to go with Sinclair rapture stingers is right you have to think about what's best for our beloved city

yeah our beloved city needs to stay alive up until bioshock 3

[Sinclair Saucer]

I will kill the Lamb!!!!


Sinclair I feel will ultimatly prove our sinister expectations of him wrong. Sure the guy is working for himself yet he seems to have a fondness of Delta. Yes you can bring the whole Atlas debate into things, but is 2K really going to do that?

Sinclair is doing what he can to survive, he does not intially plan to kill you as he helps you through out the game so much.

Lamb from the start wants to kill you. Yes, she may have a change in heart, but I would rather kill she who cast the first stone.

Sinclair for the win!

[ADAM junkie]

I will kill the Lamb!!!!

Sinclair is doind what he can to survive, he does not intially paln to kill you as he helps you through out the game so much.

Lamb from the start wants to kill you. Yes, she may have a change in heart, but I would rather kill she who cast the first stone.

Sinclair for the win!

u have a point, why would u kill the one who wants u alive if the one who wants to kill u will stay alive in the process....lol

[Sinclair Saucer]

I had a thought, what if Lamb kills Sinclair?

I mean, since it will become apparant that Delta cannot be stopped since he is under the power of the Vita-Chamber; what is Lamb kills those that let you use it?

That means Sinclair and Alexander will be on her hit list.

You may have to protect Sinclair!

[Rapture-Stingers-QB]

Sure the guy is working for himself yet he seems to have a fondness of Delta.

Or a fondness for what Delta is and what Delta could bring him in a larger market. I don't really think of someone who talks about selling my blood on the surface as a friend.

[Sinclair Saucer]

Or a fondness for what Delta is and what Delta could bring him in a larger market. I don't really think of someone who talks about selling my blood on the surface as a friend.

Well, maybe Delta has a rare blood type and Sinclair wants to open a blood bank on the surface

[Cubed]

I really have to see how the game actually plays out before I go as far to make a statement like that. As far as I have seen I am alot more inclined to kill Lamb if I had too.

[Jacks]

Well, maybe Delta has a rare blood type and Sinclair wants to open a blood bank on the surface

Lol, you are just picking things out of a hat to protect the Sinclair family arn't you

[Shades]

Sinclair, to me, seems quite trustworthy. He won't betray you, been done in the first game. Lamb on the other hand seems quite honest...tough call.

[Jacks]

Sinclair, to me, seems quite trustworthy. He won't betray you, been done in the first game. Lamb on the other hand seems quite honest...tough call.

Yeah, I'm on the same boat as you. He just seems, well nice to me. I don't know why. Lamb, shes just well..crazy. I think you will off her.

[Walter lebowski]

i say kill lamb, she is trying to kill you. if sinclair does betray you he dosent look like that hard of a fight LOL

[SplicedUpnReady4Action]

i'd off lamb the moment i saw her, sinclair ftw his accent is just too nice for me to hate him

[Ryan's number 1 fan]

I choose er um... Tenenbaum ?

[Ryan's number 1 fan]

Well, maybe Delta has a rare blood type and Sinclair wants to open a blood bank on the surface

You do anything you can to protect him don't you

[ADAM junkie]

well according to the poll, most of us hate lamb so saucer is getting his wish
...sleep well my friend...for now

[SplicedUpnReady4Action]

You do anything you can to protect him don't you

*grabs his magic 8 ball* it says.......


obviously!
i mean, if sinclair's saucer wont protect him then who will (i would cause sinclair is ftw but that is off-topic from my joke so )

[General Goose]

Now, I ain't been following this game as closer as I should (partially time, partially wanna be spoiled to a minimum, partially don't know where to look aside from the Wiki), but I'd say Lamb. She seems to me the extremist threat, unlike Ryan (who posed a minimal threat to Rapture and the outside world) and Sinclair (who does not seem to be the Big Bad type), Lamb is a manipulative, extremist, heartless control freak in my opinion. And the whole Big Sister thing...well, she just crossed the Moral Events Horizon.