There are many ways of getting to the Little Sisters without having to kill the Big Daddies.Originally Posted by Mr.Bubbles
There are many ways of getting to the Little Sisters without having to kill the Big Daddies.
Little Sisters are a means to an end. If they posses something I need for survival, I take it from them. Big Daddies can be fooled or have their attention drawn, leaving the little sister open for the recovering of an Adam.
if it moves it dies is my philosophy hehe
nice philosiphy. just so that you know, if you choose to practise this philosiphy in real life, you may want to wear a balaklava.
I'm going to try rescuing the little sisters if I have the option, I can't really hurt little girls even if they are pixels. Having the choice is pretty damn sweet, but I just couldn't.
Gift.
too bad so sad. if the makers didn't want you to explore the possibilities, they wouldnt have let you, IMO
Quite so, but for me the possibility of committing the act is more than enough. Just having temptation thrust upon us is enough for me. Besides I'm pretty sure there are any number of other possibilities I could explore, avoiding harm is likely to be just as varied and fun as causing it.
Gift.
The level of realism it would take to have something like that bother me is far greater than anyone would probably ever release to any public consumption and rightly so.... Other than that though, I usually like to go the good guy route the first time around and I also get the impression that helping is more questy and that happens to be one of the reasons I play games.....questyness....delicious mcquesty nuggets, questy shakes, questy fries and other questy related prodicts.
exactly, and in the case of bioshock, the opposite is just as true. do it once, for me?
I'll go back and play it as the "good guy" when i replay the game a second time. Of course, we're not sure if there is a "good" way or a "bad" way, it's all based on survival. And that's how i'll play it, to survive, and if that means "taking out" a little sister so that i can survive, so be it. That's not to say my sole goal is to hunt down every little sister i find and killer her to take the adam, i'm just say'n when need be, i'll do it
I want a third more 'Machiavellian' option...if Ryan or whoever else can control Little Sister's why can't I?
Saving the citizens? Bah, idealistic nonsense.
Killing the citizens? Such a waste...
Now ruling the citizens? That's where you'll find me every time if I have a say in the matter.
Your evil brings great inspiration to my loins.
Code:my loins too!
I think that THAT is the question...do you think that killing that innocent girl is going to make you feel good in the long run...maybe they should incorporate it in the game...example...theres a plasmid that you can only get if you kill the little girl or the other way around...if you kill her then on another part where she s supposed to appear and think that you are a Big Daddy she wont be there to help you!
LOL I'll consider it, but that option will come way down the list. I'd like to see if I can complete the game without using plasmids first, then weapons... etc. etc.
Gift.
...how do you complete the game without using weapons?
Run and hide a lot?
Gift.
hahaha running away from stuff the whole game. i like it.
Perfect example of what i would do, just like in Deus Ex. But in the matter of killin LS, well i just cant bring myself to kill a child, hell i felt bad when i had to clear out the dark sanctuary on the dark brotherhood quest Clensing in Oblivion.
I love it! The end justifies the means FTW!
nope.. the devs specifically want to give us the choice about how we do things. where is the choice in getting a plasmid if you can only get it by doing a specific thing? besides, the way the AIs work, they roam randomly, they don't go to set places, and wait for you to arrive.
At least from earlier vids the Little Sisters have those pipes at home bases so they may roam around but they're at least somewhat territorial...
It's fine to have the Little Sisters have goodies that you can't get elsewhere. If you decide to keep them alive solely because of the swag they have guess what? You've still made a moral choice...only it's one that only you will know about, unless you spill your guts to a Big Daddy. Also means you aren't really much of a hero...
I've wondered about the believability of having Little Sisters cower in a corner during attacks. The Little Sisters have an avenue of escape that they use quite frequently for their inner Rapture travels (the pipe/vent system), so to be believable, the player would definitely have to corner the munchkin and her protector in an out of the way area. Even doing so, you'd figure she'd have the wherewithal to start scrambling back to the last pipe she can remember when you start opening fire at her Big Daddy.
All the video's I've seen show them fumbling around their immediate surroundings like a lost child, sometimes even walking in front of an intense firefight, then going back to fumbling.
So you're saying the Little Sisters are actually Newt from Aliens?
"They mostly come out at night. Mostly."
Edit: Yeah too few games have truly believable AI when it comes to thins other than attacking a target. Most still have civilians go into 'auto-cower' mode after stumbling into a firefight versus having them think "Oh ☺☺☺☺, that's gunfire and I'm squishy - I better not go that way"
I'd like to ultimately see better objection recognition and object permanency among NPCs... As in NPC A is a trained soldier so he knows that you want Gun A versus Gun B; but NPC B is Ted from Accounting and while he knows which tax forms to fire, he does not know which gun to use. The second would come into play as more games have routines for the NPCs (things they do on an hourly or even daily basis), the idea is that NPC B (Ted from Accounting again) is expecting form ABCDEF to be on his desk but you move or destroy it causing him to look for it. Of course this would be more exciting if it was say that hypo that the Little Sisters have that you stole, or just the Little Sister...imagine a Big Daddy searching frantically for his ward and going "I left her right here! Oh I never should have gone to look at shoes. *sobs*"
Last edited by nmrahde; 04-27-2007 at 02:46 PM.
That's brings up something else: How often does a Big Daddy check the safety of his Little Sister charge? If Splicers are out to get the munchkins too, I wonder how a Big Daddy decides his defense tactics when faced with the both of us. IIRC he maintains a protective diameter around the Little Sister if more than one threat is in range, and you have to use your wits and some plasmids to lure him out of the circle of safety.
I can imagine some situations where splicers sit back and enjoy the combat between player & Big Daddy, only to make their move to quash the Little Sister and take her Adam whilst we're engaged. That would tick off a lot of players wanting their decision (get the Little Sister by going through the Big Daddy) to yield their expected result, but I'd like to see smart AI like that throw it back in the players face, so that even if you decide to be immoral to get the goods, you can still get screwed out of it by chance. A little kharmatic revenge
lol. You say that now, but will the day come for you to curse yourself for spouting such thoughts?so that even if you decide to be immoral to get the goods, you can still get screwed out of it by chance. A little kharmatic revenge
i liked those thoughts... it would make the ai smarter if the splicers did that
Never. That's what I expect to see if the game does have independant AI. Like I've said before, Raptures citizens should not, and I've heard DO NOT sit in limbo waiting for the player to startup any activity out of them. Having the player's decisions apply to the world around them so cut & dry doesn't appeal to me, I want a living, breathing environment, where I am just another variable jockeying for influencelol. You say that now, but will the day come for you to curse yourself for spouting such thoughts?
/My Opinion
Little Sisters are children who've been taken advantage of. Stripped of their free will and the purity found in childhood innocence. Their sole purpose in life is literally that of a currency harvester. Someone, some where, decided to turn a child into a perverted coin mint. I'm not sure how much more of an innocent victim you can get. Big daddies have been exploited much in the same manner. I will not under any circumstances destroy these guiltless to further my own gains. Even if I'm relegated to only using the wrench, so be it.
Splicers on the other hand are grown people who’ve made conscience, rationalized decisions. Their series of bad choices has ultimately climaxed with their catastrophic failure as responsible adults. Their lack of humanity is their fault. They’re equally to blame for Rapture's state of disarray. Splicers in my game will be cleansed with extreme prejudice. And woe to the splicer which attempts to abuse a little sister in my presence.
*I suspect some plot twists with the little sisters and the player character. Or maybe a relation to Ryan (cloned daughter?)
*If to further the plot, choice is removed and I'm forced to kill a little sister I will be VERY displeased.
Of course it could be learned helplessness, I've seen scientific papers where people can experimentally condition rats to stand around with inaction despite uncomfortable stimuli that would encourage them to move else where.
Not the most pleasant stuff I've seen but apparently a valuable way of studying some forms of depression...
Gift.
Last edited by Giftmacher; 05-02-2007 at 02:26 AM. Reason: Link added
If you check the bioshock trailer, you can see that the vents are about 6-7 feet above the ground. Now unless the little sister has the ability to fly, she won't be able to return to a vent without the help of a big daddy to lift her up.
If you watch the two gameplay videos, it's clear that the little sister needs to be lifted up in order to reach the vent.
Good point... That too
Gift.
Even if they cannot reach a vent, I'd like to see them do better at hiding than what I've seen, and from what I've seen they doddle around even in front of crossfire. Even an adolescent child has the wherewithal to find some cover, preferably behind the Big Daddy's back if he is in defensive mode.If you check the bioshock trailer, you can see that the vents are about 6-7 feet above the ground. Now unless the little sister has the ability to fly, she won't be able to return to a vent without the help of a big daddy to lift her up.
If you watch the two gameplay videos, it's clear that the little sister needs to be lifted up in order to reach the vent.
I believe Irrational is intentionally making them somewhat stupid in order to provide some accidental deaths of Little Sisters, so that the player will not *always* have to make the token moral decision to achieve Adam. They're still working out the kinks in the AI, and I have the (nearly) utmost faith in Irrational
People have said that the Little Sisters don't look human and they look creepy. I would like to place my imput in on this.
The little sisters look extremely sleep deprived, probably from living in a pipe and constantly looking for blood to turn into adam.
Most people will probably say "oh i'm not going to kill the little sisters thats just wrong" but it's not about what's right and wrong, it's about survival. sometimes, it's good to be selfish, if it means you get to live. you're saying it now, but if you were actually in the situation, where if you don't do this, you're going to die, you're gonna beat the little sister with a wrench. people do crazy stuff when they're in situations like this.
Some people prefer death to compromising their morals. Other's would see it as obejective choice on the weight of two lives, whose is more valuable?
Personally, I think killing them would be wrong given that there are other methods to get what you need.
what are the other methods tho?
I think they'd qualify as spoilers... See:
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=62
If you don't mind reading them now.
Gift.
They will be slayed... and the blood from their vains will rain down on my lips as I drink the sweet taste of slaughter....
Kittens!
wow.......
wow......you really sound like a freak!!! i think you need some pros help.
Kittens!
I love it let's kill puppies too we can have a bonfire that stenches of the flesh of puppies kittens and little girls then ground the leftover carred meat and make shepards pie! that would be tasty!
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