I think there is more than meets the eye about the supposed little girls. All I'm saying is that it's best to reserve judgement, be it good or bad, and not base it simply on appearance.Originally Posted by a rabid chicken
I think there is more than meets the eye about the supposed little girls. All I'm saying is that it's best to reserve judgement, be it good or bad, and not base it simply on appearance.
I have to admit that I am a big time softy, and it will be hard for me to even do a playthrough of exploiting the citizens of rapture. To compare to some other games with these kind of moral questions Kotor or Jade Empire, I was never able to play the whole game through as 'dark side.' I just find it hard to be a jerk to even video game NPC's (I know I'm a woose). As awesome as this game looks though I think I'll try my best to play through it as many ways as possible (although it definitley won't be easy being evil).
sicko
its only a game and unless theres a consiquence for doing it other then having to deal with the big daddy i would have no problem with it.
The little sisters are pretty mutated, how far can something go an still be considered human? No one has mentioned having a moral problem wasting big daddies, mainly in my opionion because they dont even look remotlely human anymore, assuming they were to begin with.
Da Bubs, people have mentioned having a moral problem with killing big daddies, and in what way are the little sisters "mutated?" I'm pretty sure they're just little girls who have done no genetic modification.
I must have missed the discussion about the big daddies. well they look funky, their eyes are giant. also, I dont think anyone has been doing any reproducing sense the collapse of rapture, ten years before the game begins, yet I would guess that the little sisters are about 8 years old
My mistake, I think it was at ttlg people were talking about that. Your second comment about age is very good. I never even thought about that. That's very perceptive. I wonder if this will be discussed in the game. My compliments to you for that bit of reasoning!
Well, there must have been some normal people left because the last things was the New Years Eve party for 1959... Right? Where can you see what a BD looks like inside his suit? I must have missed that.
As far as what role the LS play, I wonder. I wonder if someone is sending them around to collect Adam and using them as some sort of living Adam dispensors... Or something like that.
There was some civil war that occured, and there are still two sides fighting against one another too, yes?
the first sentance has nothing to do with the rest of the post. the rest is about the little sisters. sorry for the confusion.
Even though I'm planning on rescuing them (not killing them) that is a good question. They probably shouldn't have many hit-points, but above all, the damage they take should be region specific, just to preserve the sense of realism.
It seems that people have already started negotiating what justifications will be acceptable for the killing of the Little Sisters. It's interesting.sicko
Where are you're maternal instinct Raveness?Under what circumstances is it okay to kill a young girl? (I'm guessing your answer is going to be something like "We don't know they're little girls", so is it okay to kill puppies because they're not human?)
"It's only a game" is an easy way of distancing yourself from the whole moral aspect, but it's the moral aspect that makes it so much fun. It adds so much emotional weight to the exercise (if you just choose to kill them, you dispense with that, and the experience won't be as satisfying. It's also more challenging to do the right thing rather than follow the path of least resistance (I've found being bad in games that offer you the choice to be pretty boring— I don't see the point in playing as a bad character. Having the choice to be bad just makes being good that much more enjoyable).
I'm going to be helping the little sisters, so I'm not sure that I'll need to attack a BD, and as for the rest of the population of BioShock, I'd be happy not to have to shoot a single one of them if I didn't have to (and if the gameplay was designed so that that could be a rewarding option (e.g. stealth etc.)).
Last edited by Hatesink; 03-05-2007 at 07:33 AM.
The main question is pointless to me anyhow. I'm going to play the game more than once, possily many times, and one of the variations of the way I play in successive playthroughs will be if I kill any LS's or not.
Although I may end up actually upset a little about the playthrough when I kill LS, and if Irrational knows how to employ great cinematic drama then I may stop playing altogether. I'm not a heartless ☺☺☺☺☺, my nieces can attest to that; they love me like a grandma
If Adam is the hot commodity it is, giving me access to all sorts of interesting abilities, in the context of the game ... I can see merit in gutting the Little Sisters. Not to say it wont be heart wrenching, I mean just look at the end of the latest video, but in the context of the game .... I really do want those abilities. Its like clubbing seals, sure theyre cute and innocent ... but we need fur coats!
I don't want to labor the point, but I'm sure there'll be other (maybe even easier ways) to get Adam. I'm sure fighting Big Daddies and killing Little Sisters won't be the path of least resistance (or at least I hope not).
The war is pretty much over by the time you get there, the leader of one of the armys is dead ( not Ryan, some other guy, dont remember his name) basicily it is my understanding that the big daddies and splicers are the reminants of those armys.
As soon as I come across a LS, I've gotto try it!
see i can never really get into the moral value. theres certain things like in the sims 2 i get attached to my ppl and care 4 them and make sure they dont die and have good relationships. in oblvion i had a kid that followed me and he annoyed me so i killed him, didnt care. when i ahve a arhcer i got upset when he died because he was of use.Even though I'm planning on rescuing them (not killing them) that is a good question. They probably shouldn't have many hit-points, but above all, the damage they take should be region specific, just to preserve the sense of realism.
It seems that people have already started negotiating what justifications will be acceptable for the killing of the Little Sisters. It's interesting.
Where are you're maternal instinct Raveness?
"It's only a game" is an easy way of distancing yourself from the whole moral aspect, but it's the moral aspect that makes it so much fun. It adds so much emotional weight to the exercise (if you just choose to kill them, you dispense with that, and the experience won't be as satisfying. It's also more challenging to do the right thing rather than follow the path of least resistance (I've found being bad in games that offer you the choice to be pretty boring— I don't see the point in playing as a bad character. Having the choice to be bad just makes being good that much more enjoyable).
I'm going to be helping the little sisters, so I'm not sure that I'll need to attack a BD, and as for the rest of the population of BioShock, I'd be happy not to have to shoot a single one of them if I didn't have to (and if the gameplay was designed so that that could be a rewarding option (e.g. stealth etc.)).
Thanks for the info. *Nods*
I guess ultimately you have to do what feels appropriate at the time, considering the resources you have and the situation you're in. I guess if you just took out a little sister for the sake of it it could screw your sense of enjoyment up as much as if you absolutely forced yourself to take drastic action to avoid doing so when doing so would keep you 'in the zone' so to speak. Ultimately I think it's all about keeping your head in the game.
One thing however: with most FPSs if it moves you shoot it— nothing new there. With BioShock you're given the choice to 'protect and serve', which brings something almost totally new to the FPS. If you ignore it you're basically missing out on a whole new aspect. At least that's my take on the situation.
Okay so the topic of to kill or not to kill with regards to Little Sisters has been done to death...
What about having a situation where you need to save (if you choose to) Little Sisters from [event and/or critter] but you can't save them all? How do you choose who to save? Whoever happens closest to the exit?
Or situations where you "save" the person only to have them die (through no fault of your own) by something else...
I love those ambiguous "no win" moral situations (ala "The Cold Equations")
I fight to the death to protect all of them.
The problem with this in a game environment is if there is an inclusion of a primary objective among the group. People's minds will shut off the moral dilemma when the gamey situation of saving a primary NPC comes to the forefront.
If all things are equal, first I would prioritize the children, then whoever happens to be closest to the exit (women don't get a pass over men, billions of people means there's been enough baby ovens), and possibly any old or injured folks will be passed by for the next in line; essential a Utilitarian approach after that, taking the most needed vocations from the rest.
If you refer to which Little Sisters out of a bunch of them, I don't think we are going to be privy to a soap opera level of interaction into the personalities of each. I think they will have all the same AI persona, therefore making the question moot.
Last edited by Raveness; 04-13-2007 at 11:52 AM.
I plan to kill pretty much everything I can. If an opportunity to take down a big daddy should present itself early in the game and I feel it's a plausible situation, then hell yes I'll take that bastid down, then hunt out his cohort and off her too.
Eventually I probably will play through with a more heroic role, but as I see it, I'm not there to be the savior of rapture, I'm there trying to find a way to get the fudge out and if any of these mutants and freaks get in my way they'll become targets pretty quick.
Also I'm interested in finding crazy ways to kill people... I'd love to be able to dump buckets of oil in one of the area's the little sisters live in, then set it alight and pick her off with the pistol as she runs around, lit on fire, screaming.
Second play-through will be the more serious play-through where I try not to use plasmids and play the "hero" role.
yeah, I don't think I will be able to do it...
Kill Kill Hate Hate Murder Murder Mutilate!
I would probably save whichever ones had the most Adam on them myself...then take it.
Hrmm...does anybody remember if there was going to be any sort of faction dispositions (Id assume not...). IE the more LSs you save the more Big Daddys like you, or if you kill too many LSs the Big Daddys recognize you as a threat (possibly to the point where they proactively send one to stalk you).
Doesn't quite fit the small scale of Rapture (Raveness pointed out on a different post that you'll prolly only be down there a few days) but I dunno, I like it...
yes i would have it in me because this game is there for us to explore the possibilities of exploiting little girls without hurting anyone in real life.
I think when you see the little sis,you will reconsider,how can you kill something so seemingly alive,and happy?,i dont care if its a game or not,the concept just freaks me out.Of course there will be occassions in the game where a little sis will perish(like in the demo)during combat,at which point she can be harvested for adam,but theres no way I'm lifting a finger against one.
You should see some of the playthroughs I've done for Fallout 2, KotoR 1 & 2 (Did you know you can get 100% Dark Side before leaving the space station in 2?), RoTK, and most recently Jade Empire... Some of those games allow for some pretty bonechilling stuff you can do...
Edit: I don't always play the source of all evil but 1) It gets pretty tiring always having to stop the evil tyrant, sometimes it's more fun to be that tyrant. 2) Sometimes it's fun to be more evil than the tyrant you're trying to stop? It makes their "I am evil and fearsome" speeches really amusing.
Last edited by nmrahde; 04-17-2007 at 09:33 PM.
my father mario was a plumber and that's exactly what he used against my sister so im terrified of pipes.
Oh yea, and as sick as it sounds, I can't wait to do it.
This guy has the right idea. Payback time for all the girls who broke my heart in kindergarten
I for one will have no problem in thinking of new and fun ways to demolish the big daddy's and the little sisters. Who knows..maybe lure the LS into the water w/ a teddy bear and frying her? Of course i'll play back thru and be the good guy that doesn't harm any of them, or at least try not to. The way i figure it is that it is after all just a game. In RL there would be no way i could do such a horrific thing as hurt a child.
yeah... so trueThis guy has the right idea. Payback time for all the girls who broke my heart in kindergarten
does anyone else here sense the reference to a certain nintendo franchise?my father mario was a plumber and that's exactly what he used against my sister so im terrified of pipes.
Very surreal— I could almost believe it was true.
Good to see this thread wasn't acutally a Gatorade advertisement.
In regards to my foot and a Little Sister's face getting together for a hot night on the town: It depends. I'm going to be fighting for survival out there. Sometimes, that means doing things you're not proud of. If that means cappin' a Little Sister....then a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
At least she will have died for a good cause: Keeping the Pige' alive.
I can vividly see, in my mind’s eye, the happenstance pushing me to murder, in the coldest fashion, one of these young harvesters.
I can imagine there will be a number of instances where my resources will be nearly, or perhaps even fully, depleted and a great challenge lies just ahead. Having no Adam to buy more bullets or disarm the security systems, and knowing well that I need to accomplish one or the other if I am to survive five more minutes.
Then I hear that fell-child hopping along the echoing corridors with her monstrous guardian en-tow. And maybe I see an opening, some shadows I could exploit, or maybe I have the one Plasmid that could make this assault possible. Or perhaps there are fifteen different ways I see in this instance that would allow me to do what I need to do.
So, with the Big Daddy fervently preoccupied, I sneak beside this foul creature. But as I approach, she sees me, and gives out a terrified scream, the scream of an innocent, little girl. Suddenly, she no longer seems that broken or that loathsome, and my hand begins to shake. I still need what she carries, so I try and convince myself it is for the best, that she would not want this crude life if her senses were intact.
I cycle through the weapons in my inventory; searching for… the most humane… it has to be done. But as I struggle to decide, I hear her large guardian coming back. I have very little time; he is almost here. He will see me any second.
I panic and immediately stop cycling through my weapons… the wrench is in my hand. That’s not the one I would have picked, I think for a split second about retrieving one of my guns instead, but I can feel the deep vibrations from an angry Mr. Bubbles almost atop me. The panic grows wild and I can feel the Big Daddy grab me and stab me, though he is still a few seconds away. The fear over takes me, and I swing the wrench down upon the little girl. Blood sprays the walls and she screams wildly as her body crumples to the floor. But she is not dead; I see her moving on the ground covered in her own blood. She will die eventually, but not for a while. So I hit her again… and again.
I take her Adam and I run. As I turn the corner and stop to catch my breath, I can hear Mr. Bubbles crying in a great anguish that freely reverberates down every hall for hundreds of yards.
I now have what I need to survive, and maybe I did that little creature a favor… maybe.
I can't wait for this game!
Everyone always talk about killing LS as a nessicity in the low resource enviroment but what about all that energy you used killing the big daddy? They're supposed to be tanks from what ive seen. So it cant be that big of a gain anyway.
.......................Wow, best (and possibly most disturbing) post i've seen on these boards.......
But yeah, on my first playthrough I will try to not slay any innocent little girls. On my second....
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