The funny thing is I gave him ample time to defend. I went from an island and went through two AIs. I had a single unit horse without movement in front of his empty Athens and he either couldn't rush a unit or chose not to. The horse sat inside his courthouse range too, so having 0 money is not a good excuse.
I had a five tile island start in H2H last night with Americans. My GP was a GE so not too bad, against the Spanish though. I hammered warrior and rushed galley to try and find the mainland. Finally found it at 2000bc but bumped into the Aztec AI. I dropped warrior off an found a friendly hut near Aztec. I decided I was going to tech to medieval and then rush settlers and try and expand as there were lots of small islands around. Spain must have gone whale hunting (thank god) because they should of been well in front with tech. Luckily for me Aztec had lots of gold and I was able to seel every tech I learned for around 20 gold. I got my hundred gold and rushed settlers. I covered 7 of the islands before funds were dry. Spain flipped one of my 1 tile cities so I teched maths and put everything on gold. Took it back with ease as he had left the militia in there with no archers. I built another cat army and archer army and went on the hunt. Aztec told me where they were so I decided to thank them by sacking their capital! From here I rushed another army and landed at Barcelona on a hill with three cat armies, 1 vet. What was there? Single archers. It was about 200AD!!? Any decent player with Spain in this position would of crushed me! He quit after I took that city. He was way ahead in tech but just didn't defend. One of the harshest lessons I was taught after playing people from the chat room!!!
It's true. I'm a bit of a coddler, but killing somebody super fast when he doesn't even know how you did it helps nobody and is boring. It's a fine line, I think.Originally Posted by the headless 10
Expansion is really key and it's something I figured out early on. Most of my early FFA games were me as the Greeks against Zulu who took over most everybody else but couldn't impi rush me due to hoplites. I would go for few cities with libraries, but eventually start expanding and ultimately get a commanding tech lead, my tanks to their knights. You get a lot of time and have much room for error when your opponent has only 5-6 cities. I would normally not do any expansion until after 0, but eventually have some 10 cities. Very weak strat, but still beats 5 cities hands down.
It must be tough starting off against top players because he really has no shot at winning. Much harder than my early games against piss-poor Zulu players. Step 1: Impi rush! Step 2: wait until 2000 AD. Step 3: tank rush! Ha, imagine being beaten by that.
that's so true.
I had this kind of complaints in a recent FFA match. I was russians on a 5 tile island. The others were aztec/greek/egyptian (with HGB).
In the time it took for me to 1) make a warrior, 2) build a galley (no exploration tile either), 3) move the galley 5 turns (plus a 3 turn move around my island since it appeared on the wrong side) to the mainland, (found KT as well) and then drop them off + 3 more turns to find them...
Aztec had 2 undefended cities and 2 warriors out with almost no gold.
Egyptian had a warrior army in Thebes.
guess who complained and got wiped out?
I agree. my strat isn't for people who don't know both the basics of the game, or advanced issues within the game. (Ie, when to tech what, ensuring your tech path allows for backfilling of other techs to save turns, why the 1-4 pop to new city ratio is appropriate for the greeks alone, the need to burn down Athens, the best timing to drop the 2nd city and the best location to do it in, and how to ensure the saving of cash while teching so that you can try to get free banking... which adds to the get free banking, not free currency)
not to mention the points in the tech phase to stop teching (given the correct tech path) and start getting aggressive - depending on your opponents.
2 cities is only good if you are playing other noobs, or know the game inside out and can switch from 2 cities to 10 in a matter of turns at the right time.
i had a h2h game yesterday where i utilized our wonder discussions to win the game. i was egypt v. spain and had a good start with hgb. the landmass was huge and i ended up getting 2 horse armies. i took out paris and kyoto, even getting a settled gh in paris. i got the free spy and trading post but on the way to currency he blew past me and soon i was in his dust in tech. he got atlantis and used gs's to get invention and indust. i thought i was dead right there. meanwhile i got a gb first and had to fight every instinct to pass on the eitc. he ended up getting it but my early expansion payed off and i started catching up in tech. i built oxford for bombers just in time as he landed a cruiser fleet with 4 armies next to thebes. i had a collection of single archers and pikemen guarding it. i took out his fleet first and luckily got a ge which enabled a road (to support thebes thru another turn) and a 2nd wing. i took a huge city of his and would have had a 2nd one in the next turn or 2 when he quit. he was at 5/8 on milestones so eitc wouldn't have stopped that most likely and he would have been able to obsolete it pretty quick.
The only chance is through aggression, although that would still be difficult, but turtling will never work against a top player. We all know this, and I think it is better to get use to it right away.
Last edited by TyShine; 01-27-2010 at 05:49 AM.
Why don't you try building only hoplites as the greeks and turtling? Or doing the same as England.. Maybe you could have a chance
I don't disagree at all. I can recall a FFA game I played against noobs a couple of weeks ago. At one point in the game, one of the players brought several warrior armies to one of my cities and almost won it (I was able to get a knight army there in time to obliterate his offense). It was an extreme example of too little, too late. Even if he took the city, so what? I had 20 more. But I still messaged the guy after the game that that was the right idea. He just has to step up his teching a bit more and use more powerful units.
Turtling is the worst thing you can do against a strong player or if you fall behind for whatever reason. Your only shot is to try something daring. It could be scraping together a pair of non-vet legion armies to attack a city and hope for the best. It could be to turn off teching entirely and spam cities without defenders in the hope they will be ignored.
You guys know this, but for any other readers, the thing is this: you are already losing the game. All choices you make will either lead to a) still losing or b) now you're winning. So you've got nothing to lose. Take a stab. The game isn't going to turn around for you on its own! Attack with the best armies you can put together or try to get 20 cities out, then flip back to teching (this will only work if the other guy isn't getting 20 cities sooner). Most importantly, if attacking works, don't ever stop attacking. Don't go to Democracy. Don't worry about libraries. Keep making units and keep attacking. Even your opponent getting tanks shouldn't deter you. That means you have a shot at earning Combustion by taking a city. Tanks are expensive and a player who is locked in battle and losing cities will be hard pressed to field too many tank armies.
......................
Last edited by DONTGET; 01-27-2010 at 01:59 PM.
100% cheater. This is the same player I wrote about before, and I tested him to make absolutely sure. I pick America(my cheater pick) and he is the Zulu.
Anyway its 50 ad I got a galleon fleet and two knight armies a horse army and a cannon and all the caps but his(island start) are mine. I attack and getting waiting for message. He tried doing it earlier, even sent me a message saying he was quitting. This is the second time with this player and I am 100% sure(I never call out cheaters) that he is one. His name is going on my profile, and will send anyone a pm discussing America v Zulu strategies. I was pretty sure he would do this, but I wanted to expose him for what he is(I dont care about wins and losses).
Payed a few games games last night going random..
My Aztecs vs. Egypt
I got an island start with 1 hut (HBR). He starts with Hanging Gardens but gets a GB for an early Collosus. By the time I get to him he has archer armies in all his cities. I manage to get a cap but he wins a 4.5 to 4.5 to kill my horsearmy and get the cap. Nothing I can really do here as he is blowing through techs and I get one 25 gold hut the entire game.
Rematch
My Americans (randomed) vs. Zulu
Not to excited to play America but at least I know I will get some revenge. GS for HBR. Get a vet army out pretty quick. He gets a walk in and another quick cap. I take Zimbabwe with my horses but he has a horsearmy of his own to take it right back. I find Great Pyramid and KT. He comes after me with his horses and I win a lucky battle. It really didn't matter as I swtiched to democracy to get to medieval fast. I was making gold since I knew he would be coming and had around 60 gold 5-6 cities, so basically 80 hammers to burn. My KT loses off a hill to a single spanish archer 8 to 4 on the first try. Once I get enough of a gold base to feel safe I expand to about 24 cities fast. Switch to democracy, backfill around 10 techs and he quits shortly after.
My Romans vs. Average Joe China
Very excited to play Romans. I have never played a ranked game with them so I really have no idea what to expect. I got a pretty good start, getting around 150 gold with 3 warriors. I find China is east of me about 15 tiles. I plant the warriors on a few choke points and start expanding and get to 6-7 cities when I see China's Infliltration horsearmy coming. I quickly tech iron working in two turns. I build a few cheap roads and he takes a city. I attack with a legion army but lose against odds. He now gets a Great General. He takes another city and a few turns later I kill the wounded horse army with a pair of legion armies (Lose the first battle 6v6). I switch back to tech and lose Irrigation by a turn. I take back one city but he holds onto one with an archer army. I take a few turns to make sufficient defense (he has a road going from his city to my cities) and then focus on expansion. I get to about 12 cities and grab the Ark for free temples. Expand to about 18 and teched democracy, making the switch. He gets vet knights and crusiers about 500 AD and takes 2-3 cities. I hold with cats/raods once he gets to an inland city. I'm still expanding to the islands so I'm holding around 18-20 cities. I hammer out EITC and a few turns later use a GS for Industrialization at about 800 AD. Rush/build Oxford for bombers in 1000, GS Corp, and the game is decided. I'm guessing he had tanks, and it really shows how much better the industrialization tech line is.
Overall, I had a blast playing the Romans. I've got a lot to learn with them. I need to find the balance between expansion and defense in the first 20 turns. Once you get iron working and a few legion armies, defending becomes easy. I did find out that losing Irrigation puts a major damper on things. Getting plus 6-7 pop is huge early on.
I had a humiliating defeat due to horrible bad choices I made on a map and situation that could have been favourable to me if I do the right thing. I got Egypt from random against America. My starting location had 2 desert tiles (in addition to the usual 2 trees/sea/grass) so I settled in-place and got the Oracle. I decided to go for horse rush, thinking that the Americans will probably do the same, so I need my own army to counter and take some AI caps and then press him to slow down his expansion. Anyway, I figured that's the only way I could make use of my Oracle if I try to go aggressive. Man, have I been totally wrong...
It turned out the map had plenty of deserts north of me (I started quite far south), but I had no gold whatsoever! It was worse than a Mongol start in that respect. I made 1 warrior, then teched HBR with 2 desert tiles. My warrior found 1 barb (the only one I have ever seen the whole game), killed 1 flag getting double injury, while I healed the barb grew, I took 2nd flag getting double injured again, then the American took the last flag just before I arrived with my 1st hammered out horse. Then he managed to sell the warrior before I could attack it. Then my 2 exp warrior found a friendly hut (the only 1 for me in the game). And guess what I got from it ? It upgraded the warrior to veteran! My horse did not find any barb either just another American warrior far away wandering, it must have picked up all the barbs already. I got 20g from naming tiles with the horse that I spent on rushing the last horse for the army. I found Washington with my horse army after 2000BC, it had a wall and strong defense, the Oracle wouldn't let me attack. Wasted 3 turns trying. It turned out the American did not horse rush, he collected lots of gold, had 100g milestone early, THEN he picked up the 7CoG, and he did NOT expand on the main-land (probably because he saw my horses running around) so he went to the islands right away. He was in medieval era and Republic by the time I found him and I had a useless horse army and an empty 2pop cap and no gold. Rome was even further away from me (all the way up NW) and I could not attack them either and finally I found the Zulu (far S, close to me over the sea but very far on land). The barbs were all cleared off by the Americans and the Zulu, so I still did not have my 100g by 0AD and I only hammered out 3 cities (after the useless horse army). I put those on 2-3 desert spots, one with spice. I sold my horse army and sold HBR/Alphabet to the AIs to get my 100g and teched up to COL finally, when the American was in Monarchy with 13 techs, probably producing lots of knights on his islands. He also picked up SoC. I had a GS saved in my cap but no defense and just rushing settlers to try to catch up with my very late expansion -- at least the main land was all empty for me. That's when the Zulu AI galley-dropped my capital and immediately settled my GS, so even if I could take it back I lost the GS. At that point I decided to quit. The Americans would've come with a lot of knights very soon anyways and I had no means to counter them. I do not think I ever had a chance to win that game, because the American probably started with a GB that he used for 3 warriors (the only way he could get so far from his cap with them so early in 2 different directions), then he had 350+ gold and SoC, early medieval+COL. But I could have put up a much better fight if I start expanding early instead of selling out on the useless horse army. But it just seemed like the right decision with Egypt+Oracle against an American...
I probably would have taken back Thebes (you at least have a GS settled in a city with a couple deserts and water), switched to gold, and expanded everywhere. If the American player was good, he would come with mass knight armies or bombers in 5-10 turns and you lose anyways. If he never came to attack, you cold have backteched a bunch of things, and hopefully oxford bombers before he gets to tanks. Most likely you would have lost, but I always want to make an American player show me he is good. He could have just had 8 cities and be teching slowly, especially since he was in Monarchy at 0 AD. There would be no reason why any good player would be in Monarchy at 0 AD with the Americans. I would rather play an average American than an Average China player. America is nothing too special if they build less than 10 cities. Ten cities with half cost libraries is much more powerful (but still not great).
Also, the America player could have gotten a GE to get those 2 warriors out so fast. This is much more likely, since I've seen most average players build collosus with the GB start.
I would have went with horses, but maybe after one given up on them(probably not they can eventually take an AI).
Still waiting... He will give in eventually they always do.
Last edited by TyShine; 01-29-2010 at 05:14 AM.
you can't knock the horse start with the oracle. you still should have made a 2nd warrior imo. its only 2 more turns. actually warrior armies can be effective with the oracle. especially since there was only one way to go (north).
I agree. If a game goes long, it's a sign of something being earned. I've certainly fallen short of doing this many times but there's always a reason which helps me become a better player much more effectively than being coddled. I'm probably not as hardcore as yourself in this principle but the principle itself is valid & sound advice.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Had a crazy one tonight...
My Spanish for EMORG's (i think it was him) China. He is ranked in the 20's.
I settle in place and hammer out two warriors. The first hut shows me the Angkor Wat so I go ahead and build/rush the Galleon early. I throw a warrior in a boat and pick it up for the Great Wall.
I find China about 15 tiles down from me across the sea. I go for the double move Galleon drop but he rush's a warrior literally as I'm attacking. I retreat. I find a island barb and get it, which shows me KT. I pick up the knight and bring it to the Beijing. Attack, Win, take the city. I've pretty much assumed I won because he has no 100g and it didn't say he took a cap. I still don't know how he had another city. Anyways, his horsearmy takes Beijing back the same turn. Oh well.
He takes Kyoto a few turns later. For the remainder of the game he ignores the great wall diplomacy so thats fun. He takes Madrid with a Infiltration horsearmy. I had already gotten a 2nd galleon and rushed a settler out of it. So he got a 1 pop city. I really didn't mind b/c I knew the Aztecs were on a island north of Madrid. He did pick up Navigation though, so I figured its going to be a long game. I get 3 whale cities and he's blowing through techs. I think I'm at 3 and he's at 12. I know I need to do something fast or its over. I decide to stop expanding as this is pointless since he will out tech me for sure with 2 extra caps and China. I tech to 5 techs soley for the +1 navel since he has galleons too. I steal a GA from the English with a spy from a hut. I pick up the AoC for 3 temples (however pretty large pop due to whales). My first great person is a Great Leader. Hmmm.
I immediately hammer out a third galleon and 3 legion armies. Flip Kyoto with the GA. This is a nice pop 6 city with a archer army, library, and 4 water tiles. Throw the archer army on the boat and pop the one time GL to make everything vet.
Two turns later I take another city with the vet legion armies and vet galleon support. Load back up, rinse and repeat. Every city had a library in it so I new I was making serious damage. I started catching up in tech and eventually got him down to two cities, Beijing and Madrid. He GS steam power, but my Galleon fleet easier takes out single cruisers. He quits soon after.
I'm not sure if he figured the game was won and stopped building cities or what. He was winning the tech race 15 to 5 or something crazy like that. He had like 7 cities total, all with Libraries. I guess that is top 30 Chinese strategy. Anyways, he deserved the loss for not accepting GW peace for about 7 turns in a row.
I'd say he deserved to lose for being a crappy player. Why not grab the last cap? And stopping at seven cities with China when you've got the whole mainland? Archer armies? Hopefully he at least waited until industrial to rush those libraries. A good player probably would've lost a couple cities, then got cruiser fleets before you did too much damage.
Still, well done.
Yeah, this is a "top 30" Chinese strategy.... People seem to know how to play the first little bit, with facing a rating-inflated chinese player, you may see a decent horserush (or a really bad one), or you'll get the type that knows how to get out a few quick cities, and then they stop, figuring that they have the all powerful advantage of getting Irrigation first, and maybe a few more early tech bonuses. Once they build a little tech lead, they play even worse, when that is when they should really turn up the pressure and try to win. I became a top 5 Chinese player on PS3 a few months after the game came out with a lot worse strategy than this. I rushed libraries in the Ancient, and didn't expand till I got to Navigation (usually around 1000BC).
I'm glad you won this game, usually players that are highly ranked w/ a power civ are actually more skilled than they play, but they tend to get lazy. I suspect you lured him into a false sense of security, and he was shocked that he was actually facing a good player that wasn't going to allow the chinese to suck, and still win, which happens quite often. I like facing American players that are decent, and see that they are just stuck in a pattern, and then throw them for a loop, usually they have a tough time recovering, since they aren't used to adversity.
Also glad you got a win against someone disrepecting the Great Wall. one turn I can understand, but it's still a dickish move to keep it up for so long. I'll either refuse to play them at that point, and let them know that (usually wont make a difference), or I'll get angry and go for blood. Great Wall disrepect doesn't bother me so much, unless it's someone highly ranked, and I usually kinda expect it anyway. The thng that really gets me angry is steal the prize from barbs while my units are upgrading. If someone does that to me, they'll be facing my units wave after wave till the bitter end.
Help! The mario gods are trying to turn me into a power civ addict!
Three quick random games:
I get the Zulu against Japanese. I settle and produce a warrior, pop a barb for 30 gold. Form an army next turn. I stumble around a little and hit another barb in 3400, which gives me a galley and shows me empty Kyoto. Galley-drop in 3300. Sad. What could the guy do? Nothing. Totally not his fault. He could've been an awesome player.
Next PedalJr shows up in the lobby and we agree to go random. I get the Zulu and he gets the Greeks. I find a 1-flag barb in 3400, take two wounds and get a galley and am shown empty Madrid with Athens just beyond (he had moved to a dye/fish spot right by Madrid but must not have gotten gold moving). I walk in on Madrid and get Navigation. Figure Pedal will win the city as my warrior still has two wounds and I have no gold, but might as well get Navigation first. But I manage to get my galley there and drop the militia in. Next turn, Pedal attacks and loses to the militia and I walk into his empty cap.
The longest one went maybe 25 turns. I get China against Greeks. Greek guy gets Alphabet really fast, like he started teching in 4000 BC. Sounds good to me. I get a fast 100 gold so two cities and a horse army. I find Thebes with the Oracle and take it. Also get Angkor Wat for Fundamentalism and camp Confucius (5 palace culture + 2*3 wonders = 11 culture per turn, so I'll get the first GP fast). I find the Arabs with my other horse army. First horse army runs over a couple more barbs. I end up getting a caravan out of a barb that is two tiles from Athens, which is still empty. Groan. Gallop in next turn.
I didn't coddle anyone. Is everybody happy now? To be honest, I feel kinda bad about the first game. The second? No way. Kill Pedal immediately! The third? That guy's strat was horrible. He leaves a barb alone two tiles from Athens 25 turns into the game? He's lucky he didn't get taken out by barbarians. Sheesh.
Lucky you. When i go random i get india half the time, and the other half its genuinely random, but rarely do i get zulu, chinese, americans, or spain. I usually get english or greeks for some reason.
India is my favorite civ to play. I'd much rather get them on random.
Still sounds like you're doing all right. I get the French and the Russians quite a bit and have gotten the Mongols more than any other civ in H2H.
gah, just lost to thrasher my america v his aztecs.. i started with a ga and got pottery from my nearby friendly.. soon find the french and take them with a single horse.. double free pottery for me.. attack an aztec warrior and lose 2 v 1.5.. rush a warrior to hold paris, but the game chose to take my gold but not give me defense, stupid mario gods.. thrasher finds 7cities, sending a couple horse armies my way, and then the arc after taking paris.. i take kyoto not long after, track his two armies and kill the vet one.. get archer armies in my two caps, work gold to get my hundred and then tech to medieval.. aztecs can really be annoying.. enemy horse armies should be crushed, not defended with armies of my own.. meh, but i am america, getting to knights is all that matters.. i leave my horse army around paris and expand.. thrasher attacks and wins 6v6, but i rush a cheap archer army in the city i figure heel attack next and kill his army after he stops attacking with an injury.. get to 19 cities and earn feud first with a barracks city, but in my foolishness, i go from 6 to 14 techs as i do so.. in hindsight i should have still knight rushed, but i thot i could tech to some advantage with my city advantage in dem.. i got engnering for the boni and started on steam with it unearned, but thrasher gsd indust.. heh, i wish i had a gs this game.. he beat me to pretty much everything after this including another gs for corp and oxford bombers.. he hammered out leos the turn before i techd tanks and built it myself ( with maybe 15 fresh vet knight armies hanging out).. leos was my last hope, i quit here as he was making 1000 a turn and he know had mod infantry evrywhere..too many wasted turns for me, including mising the free chang to dem and a turn of anarchy, among many others.. gg, thrasher games always fun
Ha, you kept asking me if I wanted to give up. I managed to get to 5 cities before hitting the Ark. Guess I could've waited for more, but I sure didn't want you getting it. I knew I couldn't have as many cities as you, but I knew all the early firsts were mine and I figured I could GP-starve you. I got my first GP (artist - saved for a 1-tile of yours that you couldn't retake), then a second for culture just before Monarchy (builder - EIC), an explorer for Monarchy (settled in my market city), shortly thereafter two scientists for Invention and 500 gold. I got one more artist later on and could still flip another of your filthy cities. I'm guessing you just got the artist you started with and another for 500 gold (explorer?). I couldn't have as many cities as you had, but I had a lot of good resources and bonuses.
I wanted to stay in Democracy and do an econ victory because you could rush so many units attacking would be kind of useless, but I had to first take away everything you could use to kill me, so I rushed Oxford when I could, then Leo's after Mass Production. I had 1 gold left in the bank after rushing Leo's. Amazing how precise my calculations are sometimes, eh? I honestly can't remember the last time I got modern infantry on purpose, but seemed like a good idea with the Aztecs and if I'm building Leo's anyway, might as well.
heh i still think you should have quit.. would have worked out better for me..
After a pretty long winning strike I lost to a zulu guy. I was Greece on a 5 tile island. I pull a galley + warrior out, then grow. I galley drop zimbabwe with a library in it. The guy got kt, 7 cities and AOC all in the first 15 turns. I settle a second city a while after. Then he found the Soc and got 2 artist. He flip back zimbabwe and my 100 gold city with 2 fresh settlers in it... I was so frustrated I quit. I was way late in tech race and with those 2 cities, he must have had at least 6 to my 1...
Headless. When you write your game against El trasher you shouldn't write who won in the first sentences there is no suspense left after that... Oops I just did the same thing...
heh, a good point.. i will hold off on the victory screen to build suspense next time.. .. spoiler alert.. i will win next time tho..
That is frustrating, very. Zulu guys either seem to beat me down in the first 20 moves or so as you said, or they just whither away as time goes on and i end up out expanding/teching them.
played two games v thrasher tonight, but you will hav to read till the end of my post to learn what happened.. first was my arabs v china.. he finds 7cities n earns/hbr early.. i get 1 horse army out and adar his 1rst army, killing it near rome.. buy bronze to get col when i take rome, but thrasher sells cerimonial burial (probly got 4 free from japan) so i get that instead.. i learn wher soc is and rush a galley leaving me with 0 gold then start to work on a settler.. 2 turns later a resync removes my galley and gives me a settler in 1 pop tripoli with 5 turns to grow to 2 pop, sweet.. spend 7 turns building a 2nd galley and get 2 ge, not bad considering i still have less than 10 gold.. during these 7 turns i kill another thrasher horsearmy (henceforth refered to as thrasharmies), but a popup allows his 3rd army to kill my injured 1.. i tech col and expanded.. lost a free galleon and invention gp because he was the host.. stupid mario gods.. no offense mario gods.. (heh, stupid mario gods, i did mean offense).. we wer pretty close in tech for a while, but his libraries gave him ind/corp/every other good later game tech.. i tried a knight push too late, but i had enough room to expand earlier at near even tech that i couldnt resist the urge to build settlers.. plus i wanted a barracks b4 i knight rushed, this just took way too long with only a 2 tree best prod city.. i should have tried nonvet armies, stupid hindsight.. gah either way its just very hard to stop a power civ in the hands of a power player, particularly when he can have 3 quick thrasharmies with china.. i lose.. on to game two.. an aparently fate driven matchup between my greeks and thrashers america.. not bad suspense, right?..
On to game two? Did you fall asleep at the keyboard or something? In game one it was good I got the Seven Cities because I'm kind of horrible with horse army tactics and so yeah it took three armies to kill your one but it seemed pretty important to stop you from tromping around my territory.
I didn't have or sell Ceremonial Burial. The Romans must've gotten that off the Japanese on their own. Sometimes the AI does that. I was kind of expecting you to come with a cat army or something. That probably would've been a good move. I was burning through whatever gold I had pretty fast to keep expanding. Poor me. I had zero AI caps! But yeah, the half cost libraries really put me beyond your reach. I think you should've attacked before industrial, difficult though that may be. I was relieved when you went to republic. I had 400 beakers/turn and 500 gold/turn working on Combustion when you came with your two knight armies. No, I wasn't worried anymore. I was for a while, since I figured you'd taken down quite a few Chinese players to get the top spot in h2h.
I game two I had a bad island start as the Americans. You were almost to industrial as the Greeks when I got CoL and started expanding. Not enough good city spots and I made the same goof you did last time you played me as the Americans. I finished Feudalism at like 70+ beakers and backfilled into industrial. Bleah. I was feeling a lot of fatigue, so I figured I'd just stay on the attack and then quit when it didn't work. Having zero mainland cities (couldn't land near my island due to the French) make it really tough to do a proper knight rush. So does having to pay *gasp* ancient-era costs in industrial! Oh, life is so hard!
Well, you flipped my city with a knight army in it. That sucked. You could've ended things right there because I didn't have any more knight armies. My barracks city was two tiles away with just a militia. Instead I killed my turncoat knights and got my city back. Wasting lots of time now. I made more knights and got a cruiser fleet and took some of your cities, eventually your cap, but pop-ups denied me the opportunity to rush a rifleman and you got it back, killing the last of my knights. At that point you had ind/corp. I think the only tech I had that you didn't was gunpowder. The game was still winnable, but not in less than two hours and it certainly wouldn't be easy, so I gave up. Funny how we both play America badly.
I guess he meant the time after next time.
isnt that what i said? heh, i didnt feel like writing up the 2nd game last nite.. i wanted my cats 2 kill ur knights not flip em, but ah well.. losing those two cruiser fleets at the end wasnt fun, if id lost the third it would have been trouble.. maybe i should tried a legion push in the first game.. hard to say.. ive killed many a chinese and have had arab games that i was in fund the whole time.. not always easy tho..
in my last game last night i finally got revenge on emorg's china. 10,000 devs could design civ maps for 10,000 years and i doub't i'd see a better 1 for spain. i settled 2nd turn w/whale/wheat/3 forests. i grew to 3 while working 1 forest and gold. my first barb showed me 7 cities. i started teching hbr and changed to a galleon. i got it after a great land and formed my horses right after. on my straight shoreline were 2 more whales within 6 tiles. each had 1 or 2 trees. right off shore was whale/oxen 3 forest, and a 1 tile w/2 whale. china started on an island and as i headed out to sea i passed his galley. i had never seen a tall flag before (that i can remember) on a galley. i knew this meant he had horses so i tailed him. i was trying to get to 5 techs but i needed 1 more turn. he went for my oxen city so i tried to take him out. he knew it was coming and attacked from the boat, losing the army and quitting. i wanted the game to go longer but i've lost to his china a few times and will take the win.
It's not talked about much on the forums as it's kind of rare/special tactic but I like to choke on the oceans, especially as Spanish & where I just need a turn or two for the +1 attack & they've got all their eggs on trying to take my cities w/horses being transported by sea. So I'll plop my galleon in front of their galley forcing them to unload, wait, or attack my galleon. Normally, the whole reason they came by boat is that it was faster than going by land so any way you look at it, it usually works in your favor. It's not the strongest move but if I only need 1-2 turns before I'll have +1 attack confidence, this can work pretty well as I've found that when defending, 2 vs. 1 wins more reliably then when attacking & I hate to lose a galleon early in the game as it's such an advantage.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
just played a h2h game.. my english v zulu.. he takes 2 caps and i find the great wall.. me and thrasher tried once to break the wall and attack, unsuccesfully.. we should ask him how it is done.. i never atacked, but he was able to declare war and avoid diplomacy.. he then took my (what i thought was sensibly underdefended) cap and gained the wall himself along with 4 caps.. he switched to dem (got from ai?) and avoided diplomacy for a few turns until he got "bored" with my diplomacy requests.. meh.. he didnt expand at all but had enough stoln cities to tech very slowly up.. i thot perhaps i had a chance, as he didnt seem to realize that he only needed delhi 4 the victory, but he owned the mainland and camped 4 impi armies around my two cities.. why not at least try and attack, gah i cud play another game instead of trying to outlast a noob.. in the end i had as many cities as him, 9 (he took my cap and 3 island cities with a cruiser and some junk while i was desprately behind in tech) although his were larger and mine were all in the poor island clump below london.. heh, he took those caps sooo early but in the end it was 20 to 27 techs wen i tired of it all.. got on the mike and he informed me that he was a mere 6 turns away from combustion in 1500 ad.. ranked 12 zulu h2h, i told him about this site.. but i was a bit annoyed and let my feelings show, so weel see.. heh im really just disapointed with myself for 4getting that most players will happily glitch if able.. it is just so easy to stop the zulu with longbow archers, kinda funny, if i hadnt gotten the gw i cant imagine him beating me.. instead i trusted my wall and was punished.. ah well, venting makes me feel better already..heh i have a dog-destroyed controller laying around (a reminder to beware the dog) perhaps i should throw it at something..
I can just imagine that sales pitch. "Come with me to a special place where you'll be told you're a bad player and a cheater, even though you think right now that you're winning through some kind of skill!"
I'm not quite sure how the GW cheat is done but I believe you have to accept a diplomacy request to get glitched, so just let them all time out when you have the GW. Aside from it being annoying for both parties, there's nothing really wrong with doing this.
I think I know how to do it and I think you are right about how to avoid it. Not sure though and it'S the kind of thing you don't want to test since it's cheating.
«Hey Dude, you are cheating, quit or I'll denounce you»
«I'm not cheating, I'm doing it for the advancement of science. My conscience for science!»
Last edited by SVPM; 02-04-2010 at 01:00 AM.
now your sounding like pete townsend. although his "research" wasn't in the field of science.
I THINK I know who you are talking about. I played a teams game with him last night. He has a real good record on H2H with the Zulu. The Teams game ended really fast since he walked in on another players cap and the AI cap. Other guy quits. I was America (He was concerned about how good I was when we were in the lobby). Anyways, I get a slow start but still build 20 cities (only because I run out of room) and I'm getting bombers in two turns when he finally takes the last cap with two knight armies (computer had one archer army). I think it was 250 AD. Oh, and I told him i was getting bombers in 5 turns if he just wanted to press B five times really quick it would be much quicker than him building knight armies. I don't think he believed me. He kept asking how I could get bombers so quit. A top 10 player who doesn't know the oxford bombers trick?
I talk to him a little throughout the game and he keeps wondering why I build so many cities, and tells me that all I have to do is build 8 cities and put libraries in them. His 8 cities with libraries will beat my 25 cities because they are easier to manage.No disrespect to him, but Its funny how bad power civ strategy can win 90%+ of games. Try 8 cities with libraries when you're France and see how that works out for you!
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