It was hard to tech up engeneering since I put almost everything on expansion. He got it, kept attacking and sending peace for some turns, so I couldn't do anything but losing my cities. I know what you mean, but when I lose 1/3 - 1/4 of a turn on the diplomacy request, while I'm trying to move, it becomes really boring.Originally Posted by Grayson
Played headless twice last night. Man, he's really gotten good. I have to step it up.
First my India to his Russia. I horserush. He doesn't. My 2xp army loses at Zimbabwe. That's pretty much game over, really. If I had the army, I could press him well and make him spend a lot of money. Instead I wasted 5 turns researching HBR and 60 hammers on the army. We call it because he has 14 cities to my 6.
Next my Zulu to his Greeks. I find Angkor Wat right away and take all the AI (Arabs, Russians, Romans), but I probably stayed in Fundamentalism too long as the Romans were far. headless had a good lead on me by then. I get a lot of cities out and am having trouble manage them all because he doesn't need much time on his turns in the early game as the Greeks. I try teching up, go to war to mess with him with impis (two infiltration armies), which means I lose a city to a galley drop. Ugh. headless goes to Republic to expand and attack with knights, but I kill them with catapults, losing a few turns needing to be on gold.
Late in the game I pull up almost even in tech but of course headless gets Oxford bombers (was working in that direction myself, naturally). It's almost 4 AM so I just give up. I think I might've held out, since I had more cities and he would obviously have to give up the Democracy bonus to press me. I could've had half-cost riflemen in two turns, which would keep bombers out for a while. Then, I dunno, try econ victory? Might work. Obviously I just needed Athens ftw, but I didn't see that happening too soon.
Interesting in both games he beat me by ignoring the AI and just focusing on tech and expansion while I spent a lot of time on the AI (well, it was a big waste in the first game). I'm gonna do better next time. You'd better watch out!
watch out, bah.. you have played too many games with zulu/america as your crutch.. you should try mixing it up a bit.. fun games.. but how am i going to harrass the ai as greeks? with a barraks in 10 prod athens, why not send a knight army your way.. i figure it took you a lot more effort to defend than for me to build.. that second game would have dragged into a long one i think.. unless i could get the corp bonus as well.. i believe i was a republic, so attacking you wouldnt really slow down my teching, i just had to be careful of athens.. its great playing against someone who understands that tech/city leads are temporary things.. .. on the great wall and 7cities.. heh, its kinda funny that someone can find 7cities and say "now i will be able to expand much faster than you", but after i find the great wall they say "if you attack, i will avoid diplomacy for ten turns".. both are powerful artifacts, and each should be respected..
When you keep sending diplomacy requests, it becomes boring, I told you. And, getting seven cities isn't better than great well, when you've got enough gold to expand.
Maybe Headless should have said "When you keep ignoring diplomacy requests, it becomes boring."
Sorry man, you're just rationalizing when in reality, the GW is a powerful wonder (as are all wonders are when used properly) so you either respect it or you don't. There's not really any compelling basis for ignoring diplomacy requests given the Firaxis comments as posted by El-Thrasher for patch 1.30. That certainly settled it for me. I'm willing to give people a "tit-for-a-tat" counter-attack on the same turn they are attacked but any more than that is simply using the glitch to try & lessen the power of the GW which isn't possible with all the other wonders so it just seems "cheap".
You're already skilled enough & with your map knowledge, you, of all people, certainly don't need any additional crutches!
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
He just hates to lose(not saying that makes it right), but mentioning it a second time was pointless. I get it you dont like that a player did something you wouldn't, but Im sick of hearing about the GW or demo glitching. Each person has their own opinion of what they should do, and Ill leave it at that.
The light of day gave me the solution. I should've expanded to like ~8 cities, got Math fast, switched to gold and brought in a force of like 4 cat armies with some defense, then gone to fundamentalism. Zulu fundy cats will overrun a freshly rushed hoplite, even with your wall in Athens.
Oh well. I should've been able to out-expand and out-tech you too, probably. I'm up for a rematch tonight!
I agree but who enjoys losing?!? No one I'm aware of, nothing distinctive there. So I'm missing his point... & yours...
It's true that at the end of the day everyone does what they please (love this quote in DAO: "Believe what you want. It's all we ever do." but Firaxis statements were pretty darn clear on the design intent so to ignore them is his own problem, not a valid justification. It's just like when you choose to speed on the road & get caught. You can argue "Hey I was justified..." but it's still clearly a violation of the rules & no court in the land is going to listen to one's excuses.
I'd expect a noob to ignore diplomacy & whine about the GW & how overpowered it is blah blah blah but the #1 player in the world? Lame... or perhaps I should say "BORING!!!!". It would be like my older son who's #1 in Texas in SWAT on Halo-3 using Halo glitches to beat me... c'mon what's the point... he can beat me with both hands tied behind his back & blindfolded already! that's just silly but I agree that everyone rationalizes at the end of the day but I'm not going to back down either.
Especially not in my own freakin' thread!
Morte,
Take the whining about the GW & how it's "boring" somewhere else. If you don't want to play by Firaxis rules, fine, but don't try to justify it as if it's some kind of reasonable expectation, especially for the #1 player in the world. It's not, plain & simple. We disagree, so be it. But I don't want to hear anything more about it in this thread. Start a separate thread (or add it to the democracy/diplomacy thread) but not here.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Last edited by Pedal2Metal; 01-14-2010 at 09:42 AM.
It's utterly and completely beside the point, but I kinda like getting outplayed. It points directly to room for improvement and means I need to step up my game. That's why I keep playing headless, though he's clearly better than me at this point.
Yes, I like learning too but I don't like losing. I agree we learn more in our losses but that's different from saying I actually ENJOY losing. I don't, ever. However, I do always learn more from them. I've yet to meet a real person that actually ENJOYS losing & if they did, I would probably step away very very slowly...
Should I start stepping away slowly now?
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
If you like. I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer to win. I would of course!Yes, I like learning too but I don't like losing. I agree we learn more in our losses but that's different from saying I actually ENJOY losing. I don't, ever. However, I do always learn more from them. I've yet to meet a real person that actually ENJOYS losing & if they did, I would probably step away very very slowly...
Should I start stepping away slowly now?
But I'd rather play a good match and get outplayed and learn something than beat up some noob who's got no clue how to play properly or even a mediocre player who gets an okay start, then tries to beat me with four cities with libraries and one knight army. Yeah, I'd even rather get outplayed and lose than come up against a great player with a great civ and win due to outstanding luck, like getting the Knights Templar by his cap in 3600 BC or something. That isn't interesting to me.
But if you play me and I get the KT and know where your cap is that early, make no mistake, I'm gonna kill you! No mercy to good players ever.
You dind't understand the point. When I am doing other things, it becomes boring, because it's a waste of time. When I am trying to play my turn, but I can't. I don't know if you understand. And, I did it only once, when it was no more fun for me. After that I accepted peaceMaybe Headless should have said "When you keep ignoring diplomacy requests, it becomes boring."
Sorry man, you're just rationalizing when in reality, the GW is a powerful wonder (as are all wonders are when used properly) so you either respect it or you don't. There's not really any compelling basis for ignoring diplomacy requests given the Firaxis comments as posted by El-Thrasher for patch 1.30. That certainly settled it for me. I'm willing to give people a "tit-for-a-tat" counter-attack on the same turn they are attacked but any more than that is simply using the glitch to try & lessen the power of the GW which isn't possible with all the other wonders so it just seems "cheap".
You're already skilled enough & with your map knowledge, you, of all people, certainly don't need any additional crutches!
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Whew! Thanks goodness! You had me worried there for a minute... I was thinking that maybe you were a "thinking" robot (or even worse an alien from Area-51!) masquerading as a human as part of a larger social experiment by the government or UN...
I hear you & I'm in the same camp. But, yes, I don't like losing & I won't show mercy given the opportunity to annihilate quickly.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Last edited by Pedal2Metal; 01-14-2010 at 10:12 AM.
That's what I like, too, I mean, playing with good players. I don't even play when I see full newb lobby in FFA..
I've restarted playing ranked h2h, most of the games were pretty fast and I liked to move my settler.
About that glitch, I've never used that before, maybe I did few times against players that did the same on me.
Anyone ever think they are playing one player when they are actually playing someone else. I saw what I thought was a player I had beaten several times with little trouble.
The first civ that shows up when I enter a lobby is often how I choose them, so I was Aztecs against Rome. To make things quick I get AW and all 4 AI caps. I had all my cities on Stonehenge, and I got really lazy with a horsearmy and allowed a legion army and kt to take out the archer and blitz horse army. I got to my backup and go to Republic and put down 12 or 13 cities around 500 bc and switch to demo. He brings the KT into my territory and I attack from a hill and I attack with a archer army 4.5 and lose and then with a cat and win, but it gives me a hard freeze.
The whole time I thought I was playing Remmey, but it was Remo who is a better player as I wouldnt have been on stonehenge the the entire time.
I've played Remo about 50 times (lost once).... I'm afraid to ask how bad Remmey is... never played him.
Well I think I got the names wrong, but I played Remo18. I thought I was playing r0mey(couldn't remember his name). Between the two r0mey is worse so I didnt really take that game seriously until about 4 turns before it froze.
ooops.. I got the names wrong too. I can see how you origonally made the mistake too!!
REM018 is a good player, and r0mey is the guy i've beat over and over. Though I don't think I've lost to REM0 in ranked, he's beat me in unranked before, and he's pretty good, and he's on my friends list as well.
I had some great H2H games last weekend on PS and X-box, and I will try to share some of the best with you.
First one:
I was India (yes I play other that America)my opponent was England. AI was Arab (so no culture bonus for me for religion), Mongol and French.
I started with Cattle next to my cap and I was on a peninsula. So I decided to set to workers on forests for only two turns, and make just one warrior before setting one worker to the cattle. I took a while before I found a Barbarian, but after that things went quite well. I got HBR from a friendly and build a horseman to scout a bit more. I found the Arabs a threatened them with war and was offered 50G (nice) I threatened the Mongols as well but they didn’t want to offer anything. Anyway I got to 100G, and I was told about AOW, and rushed a galley just after. I expected to get the pyramid – but off course England was in the game so I got the Great Wall. This was great I had three cities and 4 tech at that time (I also threatened the Arabs for BW – they sure were scared of me). So I rushed three more settlers before I got my last 5th tech. And from there on I could do what I do best – expand and tech.
The English was keeping up with me in tech quite good (and he had taken Paris), so I switched to all gold for some turns in order to get some more Settlers out.
I saw the Arabs had a great builder in Tripoli And the Mongols had a GS in a city as well. So I made to Spy’s and kidnapped them (poor Arabs). Build EIC and rushed University (I already had Literacy first) so with all my cities (I had about 15-17 in 0 AD) I was getting a lot of science.
I was expecting the English to tech to Engineering and Feudalism and coming at me with a bunch of Knights Armies. However, I was so far ahead in tech that he didn’t have many chances. He quit just as I was teching Steam power.
The moral to this game (and the reason I wanted to share it with you – and made it so elaborate) is that it is not always a good idea to take the AI cap.
I am getting better at being aggressive, but in this case I didn’t take Tripoli. Instead I got the following from the Arabs: 50G, BW and a Great Builder (giving me EIC just a couple of turns later when I teched Nav.). I think this was a lot better that just one more city.
The second:
I was India (yes really!) the opponent was Japan with, Arab (again no culture bonus for me) Spanish and American AI.
This time I had dye next to my cap. So I made one warrior and teched for HBR. There were several ways to go with the warrior but I went north and found a barbarian. I got it in 2-3 turns, and they showed me KT and game me a nice galley to go there (nice) I looked like I couldn’t get there because of deep-sea water, but it was so close to the northern top that I could sail around and get to KT in three turns. So I had a veteran Knight in 3400BC or so.
Now I had to decide if I wanted to sail to the other side of what looked like mainland or if I wanted to go back and get Arab cap which I have just found. Normally I would have gone to the other side of mainland in the hope of finding other barbarians and maybe artifacts. However, I am trying to be more aggressive so I went back to the Arab cap. I unloaded the Knights next to a barbarian – two fights for some gold: Then I went to Arab cap – I was almost too easy – I got the city and no more Arabs (I felt a little bit bad about it). Then I scouted around with my knights while I was building a horsearmy.
I found my Japanese opponent and saw he had some unit(s) in his cap. I stayed in the area to prevent him from expanding. Then I saw the Spanish AI sending out a settler guarded by an archer. OK now is the time to be aggressive it moved my knight over and attacked the archer and won, and since I already had a Blitz upgrade I took the settler as well. Next turn The Spanish wanted peace and I got the opportunity to threat for Navigation – which they agreed to. Sweet, I got a settler from then plus Navigation (probably the best starting tech in the game). Damn this aggression works well.
The Japanese guy quit soon thereafter.
The Third and Fourth:
I went into the ranked match again and found a guy waiting that I was sure froze me last time. I went out and wrote him a message saying: “I don’t want to play you because you are freezer”, he wrote back, at he thought I was stupid, and it wasn’t his fault if the game broke. Well you should always give people the benefit of the doubt, so I gave it another shot.
This time I was American (I needed all I had) and he was Zulu (he was that last time as well). Greek and French AI last one I didn’t see.
In something like 15 turns he quit the game – I had a fine start. I already had a Horsearmy, but he had taken Paris, so I didn’t understand why.
Anyway, I wrote him, that I was sorry, and that he apparently wasn’t a freezer. He wrote that is was OK, and that his network went down for a while.
Well now he asked for a rematch, and I guess I had to give him that.
I was a strange game. Again I was American; he was Zulu – Arab, Aztec and Egypt AI.
I didn’t find much gold, but I was able to threaten the Aztec for 25 gold given me just enough for my horsearmy which I sent for Arab cap – It was next to a hill so I went for it even though it didn’t have a veteran upgrade yet (not even one fight). I got the Arab cap after a few turns with healing my horsearmy, I didn’t get Religion though because I hadn’t teched BW – but that was OK now I could build an archer and wait for the Zulu to come with his warrior amies. He had taken Thebes, but he didn’t come instead he was teching like crazy. OK he wants a tech race – I am up for that!
I started to expand and tech. Changed to all gold until I could backfill a lot of tech a so on. He builds EIC with a GB – Damn he was god.
However, I knew I was going to get above eventually and off course I did. I got University first, but he got Steam power and gunpowder. I expected he would go for tanks, but I wanted Industrialization and Corporation which I got both. Now I knew he wouldn’t be able to get me. I even got Combustion first and then I went for flight to eliminate the EIC bonus.
You may ask way I didn’t attack him since I had the upper hand in tech and the American rush bonus. But I was still a little bit afraid he would freeze me. Last time I played him he simply stopped playing and the first time I attacked him the game froze. I left after one hour and was counted for a loss. I am not saying he is a freezer – he probably isn’t – but I still didn’t want to attack and risk a freeze.
So, I went for a Eco-win – which I got without him ever attacking me.
It is nice to find out that the people you think bad about are OK anyway – it is much nicer that the other way around. And he was pretty high ranked so I got a lot of points for these two games.
The only problem is that I played as Americans, so now it will take even longer until I get my India logo to my account.
I basically assume that unless someone sends me explicit messages, they aren't a freezer w/o some pretty compelling statistical data which is going to take a long time to gather (like 10+ games) although if it freezes exactly as I'm attacking & it's inevitable I'm going to win, that's pretty suspect so only 2-3 samples is usually enough to convince me there. I have to say however, I haven't been frozen in a long time. Perhaps because my connection is so bad anyhow, it's really not necessary...
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Good thing I like losing so much. Played headless a few more times last night.
My Romans vs his Arabs. He got 100 gold very fast, but only a couple turns before me. He got two AI caps. I put some defenses in place and got some cities out, but he didn't attack right away. He expanded a bunch. I was kind of secluded in my location. I was on the cusp of 10 cities at like 700 BC, but headless was almost to industrial. Big trouble as those horsemen can already easily take my cities. Give them +1 more attack. Well, he showed up with horses and catapults. Not very much I could do. The gold kept flowing on the mainland and he owned it.
We were just starting another game when Seeexxxy Killer showed up and wanted to join. Might've been an interesting one. headless had the Americans, and I had the Greeks, but the Seven Cities of Gold were on an island in my courthouse range. Might've been enough for me to beat the borken Americans. Probably not though, considering the rate headless can expand with a bad civ like the Russians.
So we played with Killer. With all due respect, these games are still basically h2h because Killer is still learning (we gave him a 40% handicap after this game). headless got the Germans, I had the Indians and Killer played the English. I was on an island, but good-sized with good resources. Against 99% of the players out there, this would've been my game. I put 8 cities on my island, teched CoL and Navigation and loaded six more settlers on two galleons to look for new homes. By this point, headless had the whole mainland. There was pretty much nowhere to go. I probably should've gone on the attack. Wasn't far from tanks, so I figured I'd get them. headless finished off the AI and went to Democracy, now at more than 30 cities and he caught right up with me. Man that's tough to deal with!
Next game I got Japan, headless got the Zulu and Killer got the Greeks. I found the Mongol AI right away. headless had an island start, but got Angkor Wat and made it to the mainland pretty fast. I got a decent amount of gold at the start, so I took the Mongols (3 pop cap and 1 pop barb city with just sea and plains) with a horse army. A bit later I have a few cities out and am teching CoL when an impi army attacks one of my cities 4.5-4 and wins, taking it and stealing my Pottery. Well I never! Next turn I attacked from a hill at 9-3 (the Mongols only gave me two battles) and saw the animation of my horsemen killing impis. But the game froze for the other two and then froze for me. Too bad. I think I had a shot in this one. I was gonna go for a quick Samurai Knight rush on headless after maybe ~10 cities, then Nav to islands if that didn't work.
We played a couple more that didn't really go anywhere. My Aztecs with no gold vs. Killer's Romans vs. headless' Colossus ambushing my horse army. My Greeks vs. headless' Americans (slow start for me, but I was okay to keep playing and see where it went) vs. Killer's French, who got killed by headless.
headless crashed after that. I played one more with Killer, my Germans against his Aztecs. I got an island start, but it was a good island. Killer took out the English, but couldn't deal with the Mongols. He did pretty well this game and might've won if he'd built just one more settler in each city. His cities were pretty widely spaced. I got to see it all because (as requested), I won a tech victory. In the end I had more cities, despite having none on the mainland.
I completely agree, and I actually have more examples of the same kind - were people I thought were freezers turned not to be it.
I guess people are a lot better than you should assume.
headless froze me last night because I killed his impi army with my horse army.I compleatly agree, and I actually have more examples of the same kind - were people I thourght were freezers turned not to be it.
I guess people are a lot better than you should assumne.
Either that or the game freezes all the time on its own. You guys are quite correct. It's best not to make assumptions. If I'd been in a ranked match against an unknown opponent, I might've been suspicious my opponent froze me upon realizing he wasn't going to take me out with a stupid impi rush. Instead it was the game itself that chose to crap out.
Had a few fun games tonight… /sarcasm.
First game, My Americans vs Zulu. Great Artist start. He gets walk in with single warrior in Washington the turn I build my second warrior and move him out of the city. This is my first real loss with the Americans on my new account. I think I am 21-2 with that loss (the other loss a freeze when I had 6 vet knight armies at his cap very early).
So I decide to switch accounts and play some games on RIP Nelson.
My Spanish vs Aztecs. My first warrior finds his first warrior in 2 moves. Great. I end up stealing a hut from him (button war) and kill his warrior army off of a hill with my warrior army. He quits. Not really sure why, he still had the advantage over me as I was not close to 100 gold and his capital was very close to me.
Rematch, same guy, same civs. My first warrior finds a hut, then Tripoli about 6-8 tiles away. The next turn the Aztecs take Tripoli. Great, now I have to defend against Fundamentalism auto healing units who have one city very close and another city not too far away. To make things worse, he kills my warrior with his march warrior army. I move my other warrior back to Madrid and rush two more warriors. I get to attack 4.5 vs 6 off a hill and somehow win the battle. I got lucky but I figure this is my only chance as he can attack me off a hill 9-6 if I would have defended with the warrior army. If it looked bad he could just retreat and camp my tiles. Anyways, I see he has another vet fundy warrior army coming. I bait him with a single warrior in a desert with my now vet army still on the hill. He falls for it, injures his army in the process, and I kill his second army easily. He quits. Again not sure why. He had two caps and probably closing in on 100 gold. I had less than 10 gold, and a vet warrior army.
Team game with a friend (he is decent, but doesn’t like to build many cities, and basically plays for fun). I see unbeatendoja in the lobby who I've played before and know he is a pretty good player. Last time we played I won with my American vs his Japanese I think. But I was impressed with his play. We pick America (me) and Arabs. They pick America and China. I start with great artist. I find China on turn 3-4 and America's Great Scientist on turn 5-6. Turns out China is 5-6 tiles away and America is very close too. I'm sandwiched between them. My partner takes the other America about 15-20 turns into the game. I am basically just building warriors to try and survive. Doja (China) attacks twice with a horse army but doesnt get injured either time. (I'm hoping to survive with the 4 warrior trick). Doja gets a second horse army out and quickly kills me. I'm in chat with my friend so the rest of the information comes from him. He says he lost his horse army 9 vs 2.5 against the AI Kyoto. After that he basically quit b/c dojo had 2 caps, gold, SoC, horsearmies, and was playing China. My partner had two caps, less than 10 gold (from rushing units to kill America), and a warrior army.
Back to H2H.. My Arabs vs Indians. He is moving his settler. I find it with my first warrior. A few turns later my warrior army takes Delhi.
Rematch, same people same civs. I see he is moving his settler again. I am on a pennisula. 1 hut for 30 gold. Rush the 3rd warrior right after for 4 gold. Start teching horseback riding b/c I figure I will need lots of movment. Moving 3 warriors (didnt form army). Get a a 1 tile strip of land for.... 11 tiles long! No huts. No caps. Other guy takes Aztecs. Give up on horsemen and try to start hammering out settlers. I find my 2nd and 3rd huts about 15 and 18 tiles away from my cap. Bronze working in one hut, and upgrade to vet status in the other hut. Sigh. I find his Aztec cap and for the vet warrior army to try and take it. He has a vet warrior army on a hill right next to it fortified. He attacks 6v6 and he wins. He takes Thebes. I hammer out a galley. Between a friendly hut from galley and working on gold I get to 100 gold at about 1000 BC. I wait out for my first great person, hoping for some luck and a great artist. I get a humanitarian. He gets a great builder for EIC. Sigh. I have like 6 pop 3 cities, switch to science and backfill a few techs. He gets KoT a turn before me. I think he got 1-2 other artifacts too. Maybe gold and temples. He is in Industrial soon after, and I have no way to defend all my 6 coast cities from a vet cannon. He takes a city, I concede. Funny how I go 1-1 against him and end up -20 or so on points =)
Fun night, played 6 games, none of them I made it past 6 techs. The only units I built were warriors, 2 archers, and a galley. 5/6 games the opponent was within 10 tiles of me. Went 3-3 somehow even though it should have been 1-5.
fun games thrasher.. when you said you had 7cities in courthouse range i thought you were joking.. we should hav played that game.. i dont think were really helping him by coddling him.. if you had taken out his romans it might have been a better game vs my collosus.. the zulu/japan game would have been great.. i was on an island, but had seeded the mainland and another large island nearby with settlers.. i figured my impis were done for, heh trading for pottery was fair by me.. islands hurt the zulu a bit, i couldnt easily get multiple impi armies out for many turns.. i was in republic and felt safe for a little while.. just planned on expanding a bunch and seeing where i was then.. .. but then i figured i could just get an easy win by freezing on you.. mission accomplished.. .. was fairly tired at the end and didnt feel like telling sexy to go practice (for a few months) before a rematch, so i just hit the sack.. perhaps you will walk in the light of the mario gods next time thrasher..
Yeah, I moved my settler one tile and saw the Seven Cities on the island. I actually have that happen with some frequency with the Greeks.
Okay, I'll stop coddling killer, but I won't tell him I'm going to so either he has to come here and read about it or find out the hard way, heh. I would've had a better shot in the Aztec/Egypt game if I'd killed him and got CoL. Like a dummy I didn't even think about the fact that as he was Rome, you wouldn't get a free trading post so it wouldn't be quite as disgusting. Still, you had a very nice spot for Thebes and hit your 100 gold while I had 9 gold left after my army. I was indeed annoyed that I had really no hope of winning because I was coddling a noob.
The Japan/Zulu game? I think Irrigation would've been important. Could I snag that from you? If so, you're left with a lot of 2 pop cities and mine are all at 4 and 5, which I think would be a good advantage. I could press you or at least defend with my horses. I had some okay production options and I think my growth would be more rapid than yours since my trade-focused cities would all be getting food while yours only would if you had a fish or something.
yeah, i hate wuda cuda stuff, no question the zulu game wuda been sweet.. well, it cuda been sweet.. i wasnt so worried about irrigation (tho maybe i shud hav been) becus i had just hit medieval with a couple settlers.. figure id just make settlers out of the two poppers and use the new ones for mayhem.. check mate in 135 moves.. greeks on an island with 7 cities is crazy.. they could compete with america without a prob.. we keep getting greek v america.. strange mario luck.. lost a ranked match today as mongels v aztec.. my horse army lost to america 6v5, wuda been the third victory of corse.. got the hundred gold way to late and lost both barb cities.. still cant get the hang of them..
Mongols walk a fine line. Unless you manage a lot of gold early, one unlucky battle and it's over. I'd say that's the major trouble with them. With America you recover much better. With the Mongols, you lose your army and now your 2 pop cap is barely defendable, you've got two 1 pop cities empty, practically no gold.
I know MadDjinn likes to try to get at least two horse armies out. I usually just do the one and hope it works. I've lost every game in which my horses died right away and won most of the ones in which my horses got a couple cities. I've also won some games in which I didn't horserush, but generally when I do horserush with the Mongols, I get at least one AI city and it's always worth it for that to happen.
Played a random H2H last night and then two games against headless.
My first one I got Japan against a Greek player. He teched pretty well, but didn't expand enough. I tried horserushing the AI, but the only one that was kind of near was the Arabs and the Greek player had sold them Democracy. Kind of funny, they got an early tech lead as a result and I didn't pass them until industrial. I found the Knights Templar and tried to take Berlin, but lost 6-3 against a warrior. The remaining AI, India, was on an island and I didn't find them until late. I expanded a lot and found Angkor Wat for early Republic (really good with Japan), got Confucius for a GE and GS right after my first GP. I got two more scientists and another explorer for Monarchy, Invention and 500 gold. Very useful GP. I ended up finishing with tanks, but probably knights and cruisers would've done the job. Just not a lot of reason to only use knights when I had Combustion so easily with all those GS.
headless is a tougher opponent though. My first game didn't go so well. I got India to his Russia. I got free HBR from a hut, but didn't get gold very fast. I found one of his warriors early on to the east and figured he lay that way, but he tricked me by dropping that warrior off a galley. He was south and ambushed my army. He also found the Seven Cities and took Zimbabwe. Then put a warrior on my rubber at Delhi. Not much hope for me at that point, I think.
Next I got the Arabs and he got the Romans. I got a lot of gold and took Berlin. I lost my horses to his legions. Should've waited and made expansion more difficult or gone after the Spanish AI. I went into full expansion mode and got the Literacy bonus. We each expanded to about 18 cities, but I think I must've had better resources as I got the tech lead. Also found Atlantis. The map was good to me with some internal lakes, so I could drop settlers on them and not have to worry about defenses.
I got two scientists and rushed ind and corp. I expect the game was mine, but unfortunately I had to quit. Maybe he had 20 legion armies waiting to upgrade to tanks with Leo's. Tough to say, but I had the advantage at least.
It's interesting. I think every time I've played headless with Arabs vs. Romans, the Arabs have always won, regardless of which of us was playing them. I think it would be accurate to say that at least in regards to how we play both civs, the Arabs are a better civ than the Romans.
So today, I wanted to play civ rev a bit, and I chose to play h2h.. I've found my buddy Harker 89 online, I'm teaching him at the moment, so, I wanted to play him. It was ranked, and we played about 7 games. Ok, I can't remember all them, but I will try:
Easiest ones:
I moved my settler, started with humanitarian (americans). I explored, found 1 hut with the humanitarian and the other one with the settler. Meanwhile, I saw his scientist. I found the city, rushed a warrior and tried to attack a barb, 2 tiles away. I didn't take it. Rushed another warrior. Meanwhile, he rushed horseback. I attack the barb, still can't take it. Rush another warrior, but I see he's coming, so I move one warrior back to my capital, he loses 2 to 1.5 and gives me vet upgrade. I decide to go straigh on his capital, and I take it with no problems.
First one:
I start with builder, rush 3 warriors explore a bit, take spain with a warrior, start building horsemen, take london. He quits after few turns. I had 4 cities by that time.
Another one:
I move my settler, as usual, and have a scientist. I got 25 gold from a village, I took a barb, and rushed 2 horsemen (I use the scientist to rush horseback). He comes with 2 warriors and disrupt my production on forests. He wanted to stay there, however, I found french (no more barbs, meanwhile), and took the capital, without losing anything. I got some gold, while I was rushing warriors in my capital, built the horse army (it had march by then), got 2 barbs (one was near french), and took moscow. I started building horsemen from my capital and send them to explore, it was one army but it was useless. I got a galley from another barb, formed a warrior army in my capital, moved it to the hill, killed one of his warrior (meanwhile I got a veteran warrior, near my capital). I attack him with 1 march horse army, 1 vet warrior army, 1 militia and 1 horsemen. He couldn't defend, so he lost.
Next one:
A bit longer, like all games, I knew the map. I moved my settler/humanitarian, explored a bit, got a warrior army, and took zulu really fast. Then, I researched horseback riding, started building horsemen.. I had one militia (I got a galley), and it was in a hill/narrow so I could see what he was doing. He was going to kill one barb, but I rushed a horsemen and I took it. I put the militia on the hill, so I could have defended without losing my horse.
I built the army, but it was a bad place for me. I started working on science meanwhile, obviously but.. He comes with 2 horse armies. I had 1 caravan, 1 militia and 1 vet horse army. Before he could use them, I took 2 barbs, and came back, near my capital. I tried to trap him, but he got pretty lucky, he won a 6v4.5 battle. By that time he had 2 vet horse armies (that one got great general).
But, I was in medieval, and was starting to expand (not so fast, but I wasn't really slow). I got some archers before he could reach my capital, had 3 with forstress and forest next to it. He attacked 12v7 and lost, giving me veteran upgrade. I attacked it. The other army comes, he attacks and retreat, giving me march. Oh, thanks!
I attack, 3 to 1.5, but I lose this time. So he had a blitz horse army. I kept rushing settlers, militia and archers.. He didn't need many turns to realize that he wasn't going to take my cities.. He took 1-2, but I took them back really fast, with roads/legions. By that time, I had about 20 cities. He quit
Other one:
Ok, usual horse rush, started with builder. I took japanese and egypt, with 2 simple warriors. However, I used the horse army to attack him. It wasn't veteran yet. I took his great explorer, too, using one militia and the horse army, so he couldn't move as fast as me.
However, I was next to his capital, while he got seven cities. I took his capital and 30 gold, but he killed my horse army with his one (I knew that).
He built 2 horse armies, and tried to attack me. He did a huge mistake, moving the 2 horse armies in 2 different directions.. One was attacking my capital, and he kept killing 1 militia per turn. He got blitz, too, but he couldn't take it.. I killed it with one legion army, took Zimbabwe with another horse army, and he lost all his horse armies.. I had about 25 cities by that time.
Next one was better than this one, I would repeat the same things probably. I had about 20 cities in 25 turns
losing industrial/corp is usually a death sentence.. i had oxford for flight the next turn, and tanks soon, but i suspect you would have been able to win.. harkers recent rise to the top ten seemed rather quick, despite a poor record.. i "lost" to him on a very chilly night recently.. played morte h2h this morn.. my spain v his arabs.. i was down a 1 tile landbridge peninsula.. mort moved his settler the first couple turns, closer to me unfortunately.. one warrior got bw from a barb, the other found three arab warriors at the end of my peninsula.. heh, sweet.. i got a galleon out with a warrior (all i could spare with no money) but i didnt find much.. forced out a few settlers while morte took over the mainland.. ended up with around 10 cities, morte had far more.. my xbox locked up the turn before i got feud and sent a couple knights his way, but i didnt hold much hope, the game was mortes.. very slow start for me, if i could have started expanding earlier i had some good whale spots nearby.. i agree thrasher that the arabs are probly better than rome.. probly better than spain too..
Played a few H2H games & Teams games last night. Pretty much a horrible night. My son ended up carrying us in all our Teams games because I kept getting killed with my cap through losing button races & empty cap syndrome.
The H2H, I lagged out of about 60% of the games. Oh well. If I keep this up, I should be able to get a losing record.
I did have one noteworthy loss to a Zulu player as Spain. He took like 2-3 caps early & I started on an island w/no barbs. Ok, so I hammer out warrior + galleon (10 turns) & start looking for barbs. Somehow I managed to get quite a bit of gold so I decide to go the "run thin & expand on seas" route. The problem is there aren't a lot of whales except on mainland. So he gets a galley & starts dropping Impis everywhere. I should have defended but it probably wouldn't have made any difference. Eventually, he took all my cities as I didn't want a long drawn out game w/2 cities w/archer armies.
That's about how the entire night went. I did win my last game as Aztecs against Spain. I took 3 caps + his second city & had CoL/Navigation & he finally quit after he lost the KT. That's a rare game where I can take all AI caps, for me anyhow. Maybe today will be better.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
I had 2 artists and 1 scientist in my capital, by the way
I didn't know why you left, then I understood. It was a pretty fun game, I was thinking you were going to attack me, soon. I had a march great general medic horse army, by the way
The one I used to take 2 capitals (china and japan). I had about 25 cities, I was still building new ones. And, I was sending one pikemen near your capital.. I wanted to use one great artist
Important!
ok i dont post unless its a really good game.
the other guy didnt think so..
i was germany, and he was england, by like the 6-7th turn he already has a horsemen out. so i have to stay in capital for a few turns.. i luckily find AW, gave me great wall.. then i rush 1 settler, and i get one from 100g, from my galley expedition i find the ark of covenant, and rush 3 more cities, and i rush a temple in berlin
im getting major culture, around 30, i get a scientist i save it, and a leader, which i settle in a more distant city, he then aproaches with one knight army, and he presses "Pause" because i think his mad he cant attack me with the wall in effect, so he sits his army out there in the open, while he reasearchs engenieering. i in the other hand steal japans scientist, and the mongols builder, i save them
he obsoletes the wall! so i stop the creation of elite warrior, and rush iron working with scientist, doing 26, science
he takes berlin an a nearby city, im desperate so legions to attack!
i use my second scientist to rush monarchy, and the builder to rush samurai, my legions kill his archers 18 v 18 and i get a general, next turn my legions with 4 elites kill his knights on 12 v 12
then i procede to take my capital and the nearby city, i research feudalism and religion, and its practically game over for him. i take over london.. and as i approach his last city, he kicks me out...
i send him a gg message.. and then my dad asks me to put in mw2 so he could play. while being bored at the situation i just went through
Important!
ok i dont post unless its a really good game.
the other guy didnt think so..
i was germany, and he was england, by like the 6-7th turn he already has a horsemen out. so i have to stay in capital for a few turns.. i luckily find AW, gave me great wall.. then i rush 1 settler, and i get one from 100g, from my galley expedition i find the ark of covenant, and rush 3 more cities, and i rush a temple in berlin
im getting major culture, around 30, i get a scientist i save it, and a leader, which i settle in a more distant city, he then aproaches with one knight army, and he presses "Pause" because i think his mad he cant attack me with the wall in effect, so he sits his army out there in the open, while he reasearchs engenieering. i in the other hand steal japans scientist, and the mongols builder, i save them
he obsoletes the wall! so i stop the creation of elite warrior, and rush iron working with scientist, doing 26, science
he takes berlin an a nearby city, im desperate so legions to attack!
i use my second scientist to rush monarchy, and the builder to rush samurai, my legions kill his archers 18 v 18 and i get a general, next turn my legions with 4 elites kill his knights on 12 v 12
then i procede to take my capital and the nearby city, i research feudalism and religion, and its practically game over for him. i take over london.. and as i approach his last city, he kicks me out...
i send him a gg message.. and then my dad asks me to put in mw2 so he could play. while being bored at the situation i just went through
Most people who see civrev think it's a boring childs game, lol
but nice use of desperate-germans-tactic!
a GS for iron working...who'd ever thought of that
i was not prepared!!Most people who see civrev think it's a boring childs game, lol
but nice use of desperate-germans-tactic!
a GS for iron working...who'd ever thought of that
he suddenly obsoletes the wall.. he must of had patience with 2 cities doing the researching.. i think second city at 3 pop, had library and dye..
i in the other hand had a thriving german society, with 6 cities... making barracks temples, libraries.. and more settlers.. but when he interuped the germans were mad at him...
i think no one should ever try to attack a skilled german player, even if you have knights.. they can quickly assemble elite legions..
but in the other hand, how would one handle a skilled german player, i think from really early on.. where his plans could be sabotage..but vet warriors.. then elite legions.. it be hard
Ill compare two of my random games. England and China.
My English game I decided not to horserush for a change(should have). I get my 100 g and all that, but its not a very good map. My opponent is noob so I get all the bonuses I covet, and my defense are thin all around. It still takes me to about 1000 ad to get bombers(slower than I would like and I know England just needs naval support but I thought why not). He quits when he sees them.
As China I get Industrialization at 1000 BC, and was about to get 3 quick great people. Even if I didn't get a builder I could have rushed oxford, doing over 100 g per turn, and had a workshop city banking hammers.
What? You don't get Industrialization in 1000BC with the English??
Maybe you're not playing them right
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