my H2H running record...

[TyShine]

Well, we just had a tough come-from-behind H2H match.

We played the Spanish (my favorite now along w/Romans) against the English.
We looked for a whale (we always do this now, just having fun!). We found 1in 3200 BC! So we knew this was going to be a tough game due to that. In addition we found the Chinese to our east about 3 squares & the Mongols to our SW about 3 squares. Great! Sandwiched between 2 AI cities! We got 1 barb hut. It gave us pottery. Just what we wanted! So we put everything on gold & got our 100 gold the old fashioned way. We were making 8 gold a turn & with 1 exploration square it took a while to get 100 gold. 5 turns for warrior, 28 gold = 72/8 = 9 turns. I think we got it around 1800 BC or so but maybe not. Anyhow, we do the galleon + 2 settlers thing & start settling cities. We brought our 1 warrior back & it was going to be the castle defense. It was a really strong warrior! The only nice thing about this was both AIs formed a shield from the English & we knew they would be a long time coming as they were due north & either had to go through the Chinese first and/or come by boat. We figured we had a while before either would happen.

We kept every city on gold & just kept building whale cities. We found the 7 cities. We rushed another galleon & started running 2 galleons w/settlers all over the map. The British were at like 10 techs, we had 4 all from huts/barbs. Every city on gold, not a single unit anywhere except our capital. We're watching the tech tree carefully, trying to find the time to backfill. We found SoC, GA & GE. Used GE immediately, save GA. It proved useful later to reclaim a city the English had GA flipped with their first GP once we got the AoC & our culture level up. We found Atlantis but saved it for later. We found AoC but saved it for a while as well. Once we had enough cities that we were doing 60 gold/turn, & could see no more easy to settle whale cities, we popped AoC & we switched everyone to tech & went for Literacy. Got it in 1 turn & backfilled CoL. Went for Democracy, had in 2 turns. Popped into Industrial. We were at 14 techs, 3 behind. We were doing 115 tech/turn or so. We did the usual market thing & had decent gold flowing & popped Atlantis (Engineering, Monarchy, Fuedalism). Now we were all caught up in tech. We switched everyone to tech & started teching. We went for Invention & got it first. Now we knew we had a chance. We also knew England was probably building knights for an attack. We started teching University, 4 turns (while also doing some gold). At this point we got a GS from the AoC culture bonus which was enough to get us our 3rd GP. We also got one from Invention, we don't remember although I think it was a GB, we didn't need it. We also stole a GB from the Mongols. We used it to build the EIC just as the English Galleon fleet was coming towards our capital. It was a tense moment as we had to make sure no prompts would occur so we could move our galleon 3 & drop it off before we got sunk. We rushed pikemen in this critical city as it was a single tile island near our capital. Our thought was we could probably take our cap back in 1 turn if it held. We now used the GS on Industrialization & had everyone on gold now doing 545/turn. We needed 1800 gold to get Oxford. The English were 1 turn from landing at our capital. It was going to be close but honestly, at this point, I knew the game was over, it was just a matter of time. We were at 23 techs, the English was at 20, we were making plenty of gold & this was their attack for our capital. We would have bombers in 3 turns. They would land in 1. We started rushing more pikemen in our capital. They landed 2 knight armies & 1 pikemen army. They attacked our capital next turn. They weren't able to take it. We still had 2 pikemen & 1 archer left & since they didn't have 24 techs yet, it wasn't going to be overrun. They attacked again but we got our free bomber in Madrid. We promptly sunk the English galleon fleet. The knights were going to be stranded at the very least leaving our other cities safe to help win the war. We rushed another bomber in the city w/EIC. Took out their pikemen army. The other player quit at this point.
1175 AD. Later than usual for bombers but given our start, not bad at all.

It was a tough game. We actually lost a city I didn't mention that we built late due to no defenses but it was 1 out of 10 or so, so it wasn't that critical & we didn't have any buildings there yet. It was a fun game to play & we were running thin the entire game until the gold was really flowing. However, this is why I love the Spanish. The natural defenses of the water, the movement freedom of the galleon, the whale growth, higher probability of finding artifacts, etc... all add up to a synergistic combination that can be used to overcome the silliness of whale-hunting for 8 turns.
A fun & challenging game for sure.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Same reasons I love playing as them, and hate to play against them.

[Zefelius]

I've played headless a few times w/ Arabs vs. Arabs. Both times it's ended pretty fast, as expected, as we have started pretty close to each other. He won both games.

I love the Arabs, though I've stopped using them in H2H as much as I do the Indians. The Arabs got kinda boring for me in H2H. They are very strong in H2H, not overpowered, but enough to get me in the top ranks. I think I'm #6 right now with them.

I've been using the Arabs a lot in FFA, but for some reason, it won't change my symobol off the Spanish. I don't know why. I've used Spain maybe 4 times, the Greeks about 6-7, the indians about that much, the Aztecs about 5 times, and random the rest. I enjoy the challenge of the Arabs of FFA, because it's not a simple kill one civ and your done.

One problem I've noticed with Arab v. Arab matches is that one player doesn't get the culture bonus---which gives the host an advantage in longer games. In any case I still find them challenging to use, in the sense that I don't always get the timing right for the free settler. Either I'm faced with a situation in which I amass huge amounts of gold and nobody can stop me, or I reach that point a bit after 3000 where I'm not sure I want to sell out on the horserush or wait half a century for a definite free settler. With the fundy advantage, waiting doesn't always destroy their rushing possibilities. The fact that you get bored with them tells me that you've pretty much figured out when to make the most of these kinds of choices.

[Zefelius]

It was a tough game. We actually lost a city I didn't mention that we built late due to no defenses but it was 1 out of 10 or so, so it wasn't that critical & we didn't have any buildings there yet. It was a fun game to play & we were running thin the entire game until the gold was really flowing. However, this is why I love the Spanish. The natural defenses of the water, the movement freedom of the galleon, the whale growth, higher probability of finding artifacts, etc... all add up to a synergistic combination that can be used to overcome the silliness of whale-hunting for 8 turns.
A fun & challenging game for sure.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

It sounds like you guys had a real fun time. The Spanish are great for all of the reasons you gave: natural defenses, access to artifacts, easy growth, and all the like. In any case, you two are becoming quite the team, as I noticed you used the phrase "we" quite a bit. It makes you guys all the more formidable to play against when the two of you can brainstorm so much!

[Pedal2Metal]

It sounds like you guys had a real fun time. The Spanish are great for all of the reasons you gave: natural defenses, access to artifacts, easy growth, and all the like. In any case, you two are becoming quite the team, as I noticed you used the phrase "we" quite a bit. It makes you guys all the more formidable to play against when the two of you can brainstorm so much!

Yeah, this time it was that way as probably the only civ I can say I'm genuinely comfortable playing & I don't get "nervous" (I'm too competitive for my own good sometimes) is the Spanish & maybe the Americans. So this time, while he doesn't need my help, I definitely was into the game vs. just working on the computer & glancing at the TV. It was a great game & a lot of fun. He's definitely faster at the controls but I think about details he sometimes doesn't so it's a pretty synergistic pairing. Spain I enjoy because you generally can finish everything in 1 minute w/o too much trouble although I still take the whole turn most of the time as I'm a slow player. I much prefer 2 minute or no time limit matches. In a no time limit match, I can match up just fine against my son. The timer really puts a slower player at a disadvantage. Removing the timer generally puts me at an advantage because I'll think of extra efficiencies I can make and/or better tradeoffs. So I usually beat my son in any SP challenge (like GOTW or just seeing how fast we can finish a Deity game) which we'll do every so often although he doesn't like it much for the obvious reasons.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[elthrasher]

Had a couple of fairly dull games. Romans vs. Russians and Greeks vs. Aztecs. In both games I wasn't pressed at all and was allowed to just expand and tech in peace. The Russian player didn't hang around long, but the Aztec (who didn't horserush, but got Zimbabwe with warriors) stayed until modern and didn't quit until I started making a lot of wonders. He seemed to know the tech tree fine, but didn't really expand at all and the only pressure I got from him was a warrior army sitting on one of the many trees in courthouse range of Athens.

In other words, more games to help form bad habits!

[Pedal2Metal]

Played a couple of H2H games this morning.

First game:
me: Spanish, opp: Zulu, AI: Arabs, English, ??
I went whale-hunting. Found exploration square + whale by Tripoli + 1 tree. Rushed warrior, took Tripoli as it was empty on 3400 BC, got religion. Zulu took English. I was on peninsula w/1 barb so sent 2 more warriors down peninsula to scout. I got BW & put everyone on all gold. Got my 100 gold. Sure enough, found a Zulu warrior army. Built archer armies in Madrid/Tripoli.
I knew where 7cities was but so did he as he skipped my warriors & went for barbs. He got a spy from the barb & camped it 2 squares away w/warrior army guarding waiting to steal from me. I'm not quick on buttons so I don't do that kind of stuff like my son. Rather I chose to bank food & just rush 2 settlers immediately once I popped the 7cities. Sure enough he took his spy & ran into Tripoli & got 30 gold. So not too bad & I still have plenty left for settlers. I put everyone on gold & had 2 galleons going w/2 settlers each & started my "settling run". I also switched into religion for the inevitable probe that was coming by his warriors. Sure enough he attacked w/warrior army in madrid, saw the archer army, & retreated. Nice, I got a vet upgrade. I attacked with my archer army & galleon providing naval support & killed his warrior army. So now I figured he'd be rushing libraries & expanding which is what he did on 2 galleys. He galley-dropped a city of mine but just built an archer army & killed him & sunk his galley. Found another galley, sunk that one. He was expanding well though & defending most everywhere. However, he built another city & didn't put a unit in it that turn so I galleon-dropped him (got Monarchy) as I usually try to have a unit on my galleons in additon to settlers. He had a cat next to the city but quit that turn. I was putting my militia & archer in it so he wasn't going to take the city & eventually one of my archers would beat his cat. Pretty good game for a Zulu player.

2nd game:
me: Aztecs, opp: Aztecs, AI: Romans, French, ??
Well, I had been hoping for a quick game but once I saw Aztecs vs. Aztecs, I knew it would be really quick & one of us would win the highly strategic "mano-a-mano" horserush. I had the Romans to the east, the French to the northwest, & later I found out the Aztecs to the south. I did 3 warrior start, got my 100 gold, got a nice 2nd city to cover my capital & attack Rome. I had move my settlers for cap so only 1 tree/1 tech/1 food but next to barb. I only had 1 warrior in my cap when he came w/his horsearmy. Unfortunately for him, I had gotten tons of gold w/3 warriors & had enough for 7 horses, 1 settler. I used 1 horse to bait him but I wasn't quick enough on the buttons to run away. So just made 2 horse armies & waited as he couldn't see me from his position. Sure enough he moved 2. I attacked from a hill, 9 vs. 4.5. He lost. I went over & took my cap, moving at the end of the turn as he had gotten SoC. I killed his warrior & took the city & moved out immediately next turn. At this point, I was going to head his way & make him honest but he quit. Not sure why. He was still in the game in my opinion. I had a small advantage in material 30 vs. 60 hammers lost but neither of us had any caps & he had SoC. Both got our 100 gold. Seemed like it could have gone long game but I guess he didn't want to.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[Zefelius]

I don't remember the thread, but Morte had mentioned how he gets AI caps in 3500 and 3000. This just happened to me as well, where I walked into an empty Russian cap with my Arab warrior at 3000. I had always thought that there would be a warrior in the AI's cap at 3500 and 3000, but Morte is right. It's good to know, because otherwise I would have marched in another direction, but I decided to give it a try. This can be very helpful, obviously. On the other hand, it makes planning the walk-in slightly more of a risk as you can't be certain when it will be empty.

All in all, it's odd. It's almost as though the AI has changed from last summer to this winter! Maybe it's actually getting dumber???

[Grayson]

I just played the lowest ranked player on xbox H2H. He's #951, rated 864 or something like that. I won with my GGrayson account, #9 w/ a 1540 rating. I got 0 points for a win.

So, for the record, if you are rated more than 600 points higher than your opponet, then you won't get any points. That's sad. I've had this happen before, but figured I'd document this anyway. I don't know what the cutoff it, but I do know that 400 points difference will at least give you 1 point.

edit: correction. He is rated 646! So, that's almost 1000 points difference. That's understandishable.

[Zefelius]

I just played the lowest ranked player on xbox H2H. He's #951, rated 864 or something like that. I won with my GGrayson account, #9 w/ a 1540 rating. I got 0 points for a win.

So, for the record, if you are rated more than 600 points higher than your opponet, then you won't get any points. That's sad. I've had this happen before, but figured I'd document this anyway. I don't know what the cutoff it, but I do know that 400 points difference will at least give you 1 point.

edit: correction. He is rated 646! So, that's almost 1000 points difference. That's understandishable.

Is there a quick way to look up someone's rank? I used to look that stuff up last summer, but I eventually got exhausted flipping page after page to find someone's GT. But I'm still curious every so often, so I'd love to find out that there's a simpler way of doing it.

[Zefelius]

Had a couple of fairly dull games. Romans vs. Russians and Greeks vs. Aztecs. In both games I wasn't pressed at all and was allowed to just expand and tech in peace. The Russian player didn't hang around long, but the Aztec (who didn't horserush, but got Zimbabwe with warriors) stayed until modern and didn't quit until I started making a lot of wonders. He seemed to know the tech tree fine, but didn't really expand at all and the only pressure I got from him was a warrior army sitting on one of the many trees in courthouse range of Athens.

In other words, more games to help form bad habits!

I have that same exact problem, as I'm sure others do too. I'll often play 3 or 4 games in a row with easy wins these days, but then the 4th or 5th one will be someone like RipNelson (just played him yesterday) who will take my gold, conquer neighboring Greece so I don't get a cap, and corner me into a little section of the map where I have nowhere to go and I'm thinking, What now? He's usually top 10 or 15, if you didn't know, with the Arabs in H2H. In any case, there really seems to be a distinction between the elite/great players and everyone else, as I find that I'm usually either on auto-pilot or gasping for breath---with only a few games that fit somewhere in between!

[Zefelius]

I should put down in my other thread something about the temptation of getting pissed off!! I had a great day today in terms of my win loss ratio, losing the first game this morning sans coffee and winning 5 after that one. As my gf knows, however, zefelius without coffee is not a pretty sight. And that one loss today, even with 5 victories afterward, still dropped me overall from 21 to 23!! It goes to show, as you guys have always said, that once you're in the top ranks you can't really afford to lose except against ppl above you.

Anyway, what set me off was the same thing that always sets me off: being in a starting position where all the huts or villages are stolen from me by just one move. I hate that more than anything, even island starts. I was playing against Preyforme's Egypt, and sure enough we start pretty close together and he just so happens to grab the first hut from me as I'm one step away.... and then another village... and then a tile as well just to rub it in!!! SO I've got no gold, although I was able to kill off his warriors with mine, which felt good. But I was very stupid to let my emotions get the better of me, as I pushed an Arab warrior army toward his cap and attacked his archer army. Even knowing I was going to lose, I didn't retreat, as I was just so upset that I had 0 gold and there was nothing more for me to explore in my area while he probably had more terrain to access on his side. This also happened to me against RipNelson yesterday, i.e., being backed into a corner while the other guy takes your gold while also having access to the rest of the map. I hate that!!

Okay I've vented. Feel better now. Still, it's best not to lose your cool, as just one loss can outweigh 5 victories against ppl below you in the rankings.

On a final note, I've been playing nothing but Arabs (except for some lesser civs when I recognize I'm up against noobs) this week, but my insignia remains Spain. I hope it changes eventually, as I want to keep it varied.

[Zefelius]

I'll have to stop posting so much in the H2H thread, but wanted to say I just had a fun game losing to Thrasher's French where I was trying my best to make sense of the Russians. I saw a hut immediately on my map, set my research to HBR, and guess what??----I got pottery. On the mic I told Thrasher I was going to win with this amazing new BC technology. I think 2 or 3 turns later he got 100 gold while I was still at 0!! Oh, and then he grabbed Madrid, so at that point it was Russians vs. Spain who just so happened to find the AoC. Swell. Nevertheless, I did my best to put together a horse army, sent it to one of his cities, and promptly lost 6-4 to an archer. But I knew I still had a chance, as I beat one of his warriors with one of mine 1-1. Momentum was obviously on my side at that point. Sadly, however, ElThrasher landed on my coast with his goofy looking horsearmy and quickly captured Moscow. On the mic I heard him give a fake sympathy "ohhhhhhh, that's too bad!" at which point I promptly threw my headset to the ground and cursed to the gods.

Well, got to go, my cat just puked on the carpet again. I guess this isn't my day! Zef

[elthrasher]

Goofy looking?!? Why I never! My horsemen are extremely handsome and popular among les femmes and las mujeres alike.

That game was mainly map luck. I got 100 before you had any gold, which was big but more significant is the map was like an inverted C with your Russians at one end, then the Greeks (I had early contact with them, so they had hoplites right away), then me, then the Spanish and finally the Zulu. That meant I could plunder the Spanish (could've had Zimbabwe too, with some patience, but didn't seem that important) while you had to either deal with hoplites or attack someone who would fight back.

[Vernerverner]

Yesterday I had a game against no one less than Morte. The guy everybody on this board calls the best player.
I was honored that he asked be to play against him, and of course took the challenge. I was prepared for a quick defeat - I even told my girlfriend before that I would be ready for dinner in something like 15 min. because I was in for a beating.

Well the last one was right – I was in for a beating.
However, I think I can have a shoot at the title as one of the people playing Morte in the longest lasting game. I don’t remember the year I was finally put out of my misery, but I think we were well beyond 600AD.
Mind you it wasn’t because I put up a though fight against him just because I was out on an island – and he went for the ultimate kill with something like 10 Knights armies supported by Cruiser-fleets.

During the game we had some minor discussions over X-box Party. I t was my first time doing that so it went a bit slow from my side (sorry for that Morte).

Well here are the highlights from the game:
I was American (I needed all the power I could get) and he was Roman.
I started with a GS. I started as I usually do – two workers on forests and explored with my GS. I found one Barb and a bit later one more.
As I had my next warrior out I normally go to food until I have three pop. But I decided to make another warrior because Morte might be coming soon (so I wanted to be prepared). However, Just before I finished this third warrior I realized that I was on an island (a relatively large island but still an island). Then I stopped building the third warrior and went for my usual settler instead.
The two barbs gave me Alphabet and 30Gold – and there was not a single naming tile on the island (I checked every tile twice – since I had plenty of time to run around with my two warriors and my GS).
Now I knew the game was lost for sure. I had one tech (alphabet) and Morte was a 4 – probably waiting with his fifth until he could make a hole load of settler to send out ready to settle just after his fifth tech (and medieval – 3 pop cities).
I got my first settler out – no fish on the island either! There was one Wine, so I teched for Pottery.
I decided to produce another settler out of Washington and settled them as well. Now I put all I had on technology to get the first four tech, and then used my GS for Code of Laws.
Now I was at five tech and Morte was at 10-11. I still haven’t seen him, so I did all I could to expand myself out of the trouble I was in. I set all workers on gold (one food and the rest for gold), and expanded as good as possible. I got to all nearby island and settled wherever I could. I didn’t even use money on making achers in each city. I just left my Militia in the city – sold the galley and rushed another one. I know it is pushing the American bonus to the limit, but hey I am up against Morte and I was way behind.

My expansion went quite well – I was actually at 12 city in BC, which is especially impressive since I got such a slow start. When I made 60 gold per turn I changed all my cities to science to get some technologies backfilled. I even stole a GS from one of the AI’s, and used him for Navigation. I think I actually would have won this game against a medium player, I could have went for libraries in all cities and then backfilled the tech I was behind. However, now Morte was a 20 tech and I was at 10.

I loaded some gallons with some settlers and went for Democracy (ready in two steps). In the meantime Morte had found me, and I knew he was getting ready for something unpleasant. I rushed a couple of archers in most cities (like that would help!) and focused on somehow getting bach into the game. Then I got a message that Romans used a GS to tech Corporation… Oh dear – I was so far behind!

Soon thereafter the in inevitable attack came. He didn’t even care landing his Knight armies before he attacked my first cities – if he lost an army or two then he plenty more he told me…
Then I looked at Washington – I think there were 4 Knight armies and a Cruiser fleet next to it.
That was it…

I will not use the bad start as an excuse to lose to Morte – I would have lost anyway. But if my start hadn’t been so terrible I might have given him a much tougher fight – and I would have loved to given Morte some tough competition now that I got to play him.
If the situation would had been reversed: Morte being Roman stuck on this island (with two barb (one giving Alphabet) and no naming tiles) – and I being on the mainland with three AI’s to myself – then the game could have been very interesting. I am not sure I would have won, but I would have given him a lot more competition.

I just got to think that I only have written about my defeats – and quite frankly I win most of my games (something like 9 out of 10) so I will write a bit more frequently about my games both on H2H and FFA.

Anyway, Morte I am sorry about the poor game I played. I hope you would play again sometime. I think the combination of me playing a power civ. While you play a medium civ even out the odds a little bit.

[MorteEterna]

Yesterday I had a game against no one less than Morte. The guy everybody on this board calls the best player.
I was honored that he asked be to play against him, and of course took the challenge. I was prepared for a quick defeat - I even told my girlfriend before that I would be ready for dinner in something like 15 min. because I was in for a beating.

Well the last one was right – I was in for a beating.
However, I think I can have a shoot at the title as one of the people playing Morte in the longest lasting game. I don’t remember the year I was finally put out of my misery, but I think we were well beyond 600AD.
Mind you it wasn’t because I put up a though fight against him just because I was out on an island – and he went for the ultimate kill with something like 10 Knights armies supported by Cruiser-fleets.

During the game we had some minor discussions over X-box Party. I t was my first time doing that so it went a bit slow from my side (sorry for that Morte).

Well here are the highlights from the game:
I was American (I needed all the power I could get) and he was Roman.
I started with a GS. I started as I usually do – two workers on forests and explored with my GS. I found one Barb and a bit later one more.
As I had my next warrior out I normally go to food until I have three pop. But I decided to make another warrior because Morte might be coming soon (so I wanted to be prepared). However, Just before I finished this third warrior I realized that I was on an island (a relatively large island but still an island). Then I stopped building the third warrior and went for my usual settler instead.
The two barbs gave me Alphabet and 30Gold – and there was not a single naming tile on the island (I checked every tile twice – since I had plenty of time to run around with my two warriors and my GS).
Now I knew the game was lost for sure. I had one tech (alphabet) and Morte was a 4 – probably waiting with his fifth until he could make a hole load of settler to send out ready to settle just after his fifth tech (and medieval – 3 pop cities).
I got my first settler out – no fish on the island either! There was one Wine, so I teched for Pottery.
I decided to produce another settler out of Washington and settled them as well. Now I put all I had on technology to get the first four tech, and then used my GS for Code of Laws.
Now I was at five tech and Morte was at 10-11. I still haven’t seen him, so I did all I could to expand myself out of the trouble I was in. I set all workers on gold (one food and the rest for gold), and expanded as good as possible. I got to all nearby island and settled wherever I could. I didn’t even use money on making achers in each city. I just left my Militia in the city – sold the galley and rushed another one. I know it is pushing the American bonus to the limit, but hey I am up against Morte and I was way behind.

My expansion went quite well – I was actually at 12 city in BC, which is especially impressive since I got such a slow start. When I made 60 gold per turn I changed all my cities to science to get some technologies backfilled. I even stole a GS from one of the AI’s, and used him for Navigation. I think I actually would have won this game against a medium player, I could have went for libraries in all cities and then backfilled the tech I was behind. However, now Morte was a 20 tech and I was at 10.

I loaded some gallons with some settlers and went for Democracy (ready in two steps). In the meantime Morte had found me, and I knew he was getting ready for something unpleasant. I rushed a couple of archers in most cities (like that would help!) and focused on somehow getting bach into the game. Then I got a message that Romans used a GS to tech Corporation… Oh dear – I was so far behind!

Soon thereafter the in inevitable attack came. He didn’t even care landing his Knight armies before he attacked my first cities – if he lost an army or two then he plenty more he told me…
Then I looked at Washington – I think there were 4 Knight armies and a Cruiser fleet next to it.
That was it…

I will not use the bad start as an excuse to lose to Morte – I would have lost anyway. But if my start hadn’t been so terrible I might have given him a much tougher fight – and I would have loved to given Morte some tough competition now that I got to play him.
If the situation would had been reversed: Morte being Roman stuck on this island (with two barb (one giving Alphabet) and no naming tiles) – and I being on the mainland with three AI’s to myself – then the game could have been very interesting. I am not sure I would have won, but I would have given him a lot more competition.

I just got to think that I only have written about my defeats – and quite frankly I win most of my games (something like 9 out of 10) so I will write a bit more frequently about my games both on H2H and FFA.

Anyway, Morte I am sorry about the poor game I played. I hope you would play again sometime. I think the combination of me playing a power civ. While you play a medium civ even out the odds a little bit.

It was a fun game, however I told you, you could try attacking me. I took aztecs after few turns, like I usually do.. I can't stay without taking capitals, and I had a poor capital (no food, only production and science). We can play again when I will have time, and it would be fun. Starting in a island as romans isn't as easy as you say, I think I could have lost.. Romans in a island are really slow

[Vernerverner]

It was a fun game, however I told you, you could try attacking me. I took aztecs after few turns, like I usually do.. I can't stay without taking capitals, and I had a poor capital (no food, only production and science). We can play again when I will have time, and it would be fun. Starting in a island as romans isn't as easy as you say, I think I could have lost.. Romans in a island are really slow

Yes, I know I should have tried attacking your cities. I noticed you only had 1 pikemen i the ones I saw sailing be them – and that was probably only archers before you build Leo’s workshop .
I was however trying to get back by expanding – a thing I could do a lot better than you because I was American in medieval while you were Roman in Industrial. But I got into gear to slow to ever have a chance to keep up with you.

Did you actually move your settler in order to get close to the Aztec – so you could take them?

I plan to be online in weekends (also this upcoming weekend) – so let’s see if we can have a game where I can play a bit better against you.
Don’t think I will be that easy each time...

[MorteEterna]

Yes, I know I should have tried attacking your cities. I noticed you only had 1 pikemen i the ones I saw sailing be them – and that was probably only archers before you build Leo’s workshop .
I was however trying to get back by expanding – a thing I could do a lot better than you because I was American in medieval while you were Roman in Industrial. But I got into gear to slow to ever have a chance to keep up with you.

Did you actually move your settler in order to get close to the Aztec – so you could take them?

I plan to be online in weekends (also this upcoming weekend) – so let’s see if we can have a game where I can play a bit better against you.
Don’t think I will be that easy each time...

I had archers, and if you came with a galley, you could take some of my cities with ease. If you spend time on defending your cities with archers, you wouldn't expand, so next time don't even care about having archers. Use the gold to expand faster, and use knights to attack. Your enemy won't even touch you.

Yes, I have moved my settler

[Vernerverner]

I had archers, and if you came with a galley, you could take some of my cities with ease. If you spend time on defending your cities with archers, you wouldn't expand, so next time don't even care about having archers. Use the gold to expand faster, and use knights to attack. Your enemy won't even touch you.

Yes, I have moved my settler

Impressive, I thought you were lucky to get a walk in around 3100BC, but you actually went for that as a starting strategy. I think I am to chicken to do that.

I actually didn’t spend any gold on archers until you showed up, because I knew my only chance (however small) was to expand the best I ever could (the timer makes it difficult).
Anyway, normally I tend to use way to much effort/gold to defend via archers/pikemen, and you are probably right that it is better to defend by Knights or Horsemen.
If you have seen any of my previous post you might have seen that my biggest problem is that I am not aggressive enough.
It is not even a joke, that I fell sorry when I attack the AI unprovoked…

[MorteEterna]

Impressive, I thought you were lucky to get a walk in around 3100BC, but you actually went for that as a starting strategy. I think I am to chicken to do that.

I actually didn’t spend any gold on archers until you showed up, because I knew my only chance (however small) was to expand the best I ever could (the timer makes it difficult).
Anyway, normally I tend to use way to much effort/gold to defend via archers/pikemen, and you are probably right that it is better to defend by Knights or Horsemen.
If you have seen any of my previous post you might have seen that my biggest problem is that I am not aggressive enough.
It is not even a joke, that I fell sorry when I attack the AI unprovoked…

I usually take some capitals in every game.. I think out of my thousands of games, in 94.97% of my games, I have took one capital. I don't mean defending with knights. I mean expanding as much as possible, like to 40 cities in 40 turns (I haven't had problems in most of my games, doing this on multiplayer, unless I lost some of my cities or had problems at the start). Then, while you expand, you tech to feudalism and build a lot of knight armies. Who cares if you lose 1-2 cities, you can conquer everything else and with only 75 gold you build a knight army. I usually have a lot of cities near each other, so it's not a problem to defend really fast..

But, I prefer to press the enemy and attack

[Vernerverner]

But then you move your settler most times as well right?

Yes, you can expand really fast as American. If you use the double units in a square, you can actually build as many cities you want in one turn. Just rush a settler in the city you just build and send it two squares away to a spot where you have another unit waiting.

[MorteEterna]

But then you move your settler most times as well right?

Yes, you can expand really fast as American. If you use the double units in a square, you can actually build as many cities you want in one turn. Just rush a settler in the city you just build and send it two squares away to a spot where you have another unit waiting.

Yes, I do, because I think settling where you start is the same every time. I want to have fun when I play, so I usually move my settler. Today I could have 100 gold in 8 turns, only moving my settler, as romans. It was h2h (at the end I have won by the way).

I usually build militia as fast as I reach medieval, while I should still be attacking my enemies. Then I get code of laws and expand everywhere. Enemies coming? I know that before they even know about my militia

By the way, I've restarted playing h2h and I am 6-0 if I'm not wrong, and I should be near 1300 points. All this in one day, and I had fun

[Pedal2Metal]

Morte,
I assuming those knight armies came from legion armies + Leo's. How many cities did you have producing legions? At 3, it's a legion army/2 turns. At 6 it's 2 legion armies/2 turns. I'd like to pick up the Romans again but need a little guidance here as I know you use legions effectively w/Romans. Also how many cities did you have by 2000 BC, 1000 BC, 0?

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[MorteEterna]

Morte,
I assuming those knight armies came from legion armies + Leo's. How many cities did you have producing legions? At 3, it's a legion army/2 turns. At 6 it's 2 legion armies/2 turns. I'd like to pick up the Romans again but need a little guidance here as I know you use legions effectively w/Romans. Also how many cities did you have by 2000 BC, 1000 BC, 0?

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Well, most of those knights came from leo's + great leader, but new ones came from the gold (due to corporation at 200 AD maybe). I had many cities, but I don't think I could tell. Maybe 5-6 at 2000, and more than 20 in 40 turns. I usually keep building cities. Most of them have low defence, if you study how and where to hit me, maybe you could have a chance

Today I've had a nice game with Ehogg2 if the gamertag is not wrong, and I have used romans. He tried to take the cities on the front, near his capital, with a galley. He had a militia, caravan, hoplite and veteran catapult army. He took 2 cities, then I took them back really fast, after building some legions, archers and using an old horse army (Yes, I have used it).

Maybe we could try in a h2h, it's hard to tell everything here. But I usually have a lot of cities fast as romans

[danthechan]

ehogg plays as chinese, right? he's pretty highly ranked.

i got in one very long and fun game last night. i was india vs. egypt. i formed a horse army but lost it to a lower numbered defender (again). (i have had the worst luck against a.i. lately. in 2 games i attacked england from a hill w/galleon support and lost 13-7.5. the next game as egypt i attacked egypt w/collosus and lost 9-5. both games were lost and could have been easily won.) anyways my wate of hammers puts me way behind and he bolts ahead in tech. i'm way down and decide to take 2 legion armies and an archer army out to see what i could do. i take an arab city and then egypt's 2nd city with cattle. i go on to get a chines city and an american city. the free techs have me back in the game. he comes after his city with knights but i have march legions and hold him off. he gets atlantis and gs's comb. i'm about dead but i get a gb and just get to indust. in time for oxford and bombers. he keeps me out of thebes with an endless string of riflemen absorbing my bomber attacks. what ensues is an hour long battle around his captured city with tanks, bombers, fighters, and the kitchen sink. meanwhile the chinese city i took next to it gets an iron mine with 5-6 mountains. it fuels my desperate defense and after a while we take a breather and sprint to the tech finish line. i had some surviving bomber and fighter wings so i swooped a couple of his islands with a cruiser fleet drop in (no anarchy makes this such a good tactic). i cleaned up the a.i caps that had been ignored and was teching space flight. he was 1 ahead in tech so when i got a g.b. i decided to bomb thebes and not risk losing the space race. he had no sea squares so i landed 3 tank armies to swoop in next turn, and then he quit.
afterwards he was kicking himself for errors. most notably he had gold to rush oxford but used it on tank armies. it would have been over right then.

[Pedal2Metal]

ehogg plays as chinese, right? he's pretty highly ranked.

He used to use America most of the time but he's been mixing it up lately. He's played Greeks & others against us lately. I don't know about his rank but we've played 5+ times, always won so far.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[elthrasher]

Four quick games.

First I got the Americans with a GA. My Japanese opponent quit after two turns. Maybe he didn't like the map or just didn't want to play against Americans. Can't say I blame him. Tripoli was close enough that I probably could've had it with a warrior, then fundamentalist horse armies roam the map.

Then I got the Mongols against Aztecs. I got two barbs and no gold for a long time, so my horse army was super slow. Fortunately, I managed to get a caravan and name something, so the 60 gold brought it together in time to take Washington at 4 pop with 4 sea tiles. Nice. The Aztecs got Athens and Moscow. I got to 100 gold quickly with 12 trade out of Washington (and my barbs that had grown to 2 pop by then) and put settlers on a galley because the Aztecs were blocking the mainland. Then my galley was alerted to the nearby Seven Cities, so I got another galley to pick that up.

It was a tech race, but I'm sure I was putting out more cities. I got the Ark too and free wall in Washington. Pretty good stuff. The Aztecs beat me to Irrigation, but I got a Great Humanitarian right after that. Then one of my galleys found Confucius and brought home an artist and an explorer. I flipped Athens which was at 6 pop with a library and a pike army inside. Not sure why my opponent wasn't in Democracy. He was still in Despotism. But anyway, he had a warrior army on the hill above (he didn't horserush, just used warriors) and attacked at 6-9, lost and quit.

After that I got the Spanish against a weird Zulu player who never attacked me or killed my warriors wandering around. He marched his impis right on by. He was all over the place though and got a ton of gold and took all three AI caps (though I managed to send to caravans to the Mongols first - I don't know how the heck they can lose to warriors when they have bronze and 40 gold. I can hold off impis indefinitely with that). I had kind of a slow start because I built a warrior army in Madrid, but of course I didn't need it. By the time Karakorum fell, I had just settled my 3rd whale city and knew where Atlantis was, plus had a lot of gold and was picking up another settler, plus planning my next move on the mainland. But the Zulu guy quit. Maybe he only likes playing against the AI, but then why not play SP? I think I would've pulled this one out (just protect Madrid), but by all measures he was winning at the time.

Last one was Zulu madness! Well, sorta. We both had the Zulu. I don't know what my opponent was doing. I sent impis everywhere and found nothing but a few barbarians. Never found the AI. Huge map with only barbarians. I didn't get any messages about my opponent attacking other civs either. Maybe they were on an island. I got a free galley and bypassed Confucius (unneeded in a Zulu game) and found the Knights Templar. A couple turns later, I found my opponent's empty cap with one worker on grass and one on sea. Dropped in the knights and it's over. He didn't even have 100 gold yet.

[Zefelius]

Since losing a game as well as my temper against Preyforme (nothing against him!), I've been on a pretty good winning streak of 8 in ranked games. I think I've figured out a pretty simple and reliable system with Arabs, and finally my insignia has changed to them from the Spanish. I guess the trick I forgot about but started using again with them, so as to be more likely to get the 100 gld as well as a reasonable rush, is selling wariors when necessary. That helps quite a bit when you're just 20 under but don't want to wait too long to go on the attack.

My most recent game was against an American player who posts here every so often. He got Thebes and I got Beijing. I knew I should attack hard, otherwise if it went too long my chances would slip. So I sent a couple horse armies his way, lost the first b/c he had his atop a nicely positioned hill, and then destroyed his with my second. More and more I think ppl don't expect more than one horsearmy. Anyway, I had infiltration, so went ahead and attacked Thebes and won an 18-18 battle. He must have had a barracks somewhere. That battle swung the tide in my favor, and he quit after I took another city. To me it looked like he expanded very well, so this just reminds me that so many of our games are decided by luck. Lots of strategy too, of course, but sometimes a whole game hinges on something pivotal like one battle which can go either way in terms of momentum. I was also lucky he didn't get a GA from the AoC, which I knew he discovered. I even hesitated to attack, but when I saw him send reinforcements to his cities, I knew he didn't have the GA unless he was trying to upgrade my attacking unit, which most players don't do.

Anyway, now that I've played decently with the Arabs, I'd like to practice with the Romans. But being so close to the top 10, I don't know. It'd be nice to make a cameo at least once in that ethereal realm of great players, and I know I could do it if I kept using the Arabs or Spanish, but I get bored of using them. Using the top 3 civs would almost be too easy, but since I've used them less than about 3%, I could perhaps give one of them a try and still keep the Arab symbol. Probably I'll just go with some mix of Romans and Arabs for the time being and hope that I can make it in just once before focusing on the lower civs more like the Russians, etc.

[Pedal2Metal]

To me it looked like he expanded very well, so this just reminds me that so many of our games are decided by luck. Lots of strategy too, of course, but sometimes a whole game hinges on something pivotal like one battle which can go either way in terms of momentum. .

I agree. Key battles do tend to occur earlier however. After that, it's more a tech race & power race (gold/production). If someone loses 2 horse armies & key city early, they are at an extreme disadvantage so usually it just makes sense to quit, assuming player skills are matched. I've had exceptions to this general rule but it still generally holds true. Early battles can be key, later battles are generally more about long-term strategy.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[Zefelius]

I agree. Key battles do tend to occur earlier however. After that, it's more a tech race & power race (gold/production). If someone loses 2 horse armies & key city early, they are at an extreme disadvantage so usually it just makes sense to quit, assuming player skills are matched. I've had exceptions to this general rule but it still generally holds true. Early battles can be key, later battles are generally more about long-term strategy.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

I knew you might have something to say about luck!

We agree on this one, especially in terms of short-term and long-term comparisons. It's also worth pointing out that I usually will throw myself into a luck battle only given certain situations, so it could even be argued that that particular aspect of luck is itself, or can be, an element of a larger strategy. In this game I knew I was close to knights, so I didn't mind taking a chance. On the other hand, knights plus one infiltration horsearmy isn't a bad choice either. But sometimes I just like to see what happens and have fun gambling, sort of like your son. I remember that one game where he took a chance with a quick Russian horserush. He could have won, but I was lucky in that game. But as you've mentioned before, taking those chances will pay off for him more times than not---and so once again it can be argued that the gambling aspect of the game had a strategic side as well.

[Pedal2Metal]

Yeah, he & I play as differently as night & day but have both gotten multiple civs in top-10 so it's nice to see that the game support different playstyles. That being said, the very best players tend to be hyper-aggressive. I tend to prefer "sneaky" but I have increased my aggressive tendencies & it definitely helps in this game, especially early in the game. I do hope if there ever is a CivRev 2 that they will incorporate a few of the suggestions I made about giving "passive" players a little more equal footing to make the game a little more varied. Domination will always dominate (unavoidable sorry! , but it would be nice to see the other victory types be a little more viable, even if only by a few percentage points.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[Vernerverner]

Today I've had a nice game with Ehogg2 if the gamertag is not wrong

I remember his name too. I played him some days ago.

It was one of the games where everything went as it should for me.
I was American he was Greek, so the odds where in my favor from the start. I got to my 100Gold very fast and went for a Horsearmy. As I have said before I normally have problems with being aggressive, but I want to change that so I went for the Russian and French AI, and got both their capitals.

This gave me control over a large part of the mainland, while Ehogg2 was stuck on one side, maybe able to build a city or two. Then I got my 5 tech, and expanded with all the gold I had acquired. I had something like 15-20 cities and a horsearmy close to Athens, so he couldn’t get settlers out.
I was sure to win this one, but then he attacked my horsearmy killing it easy. Then he went for my cities, and he got two before I was ready for him. But then I came at him with some catapult and knight armies supported by galleon fleets.

He then quit, and wrote me a message that I won with a broken civ, and that I should try a more challenging one. I wrote back, that I agreed with the Americans being very powerful, but that I am new to X-box, and I wanted to gain some rank (by using Americans and China) before I try out other civ. I currently just above 50, so there is still a while until I am in top 20 or even top 10. I don’t know if I ever get into top 10 on x-box, because there are some very though players there.

Anyway, Ehogg2 seemed to be a good player, but when an American player has a start like this, it’s almost impossible to come back in the game. I hope my next game against Morte will start like that for me, because then I will give him a challenge. Maybe if I start like this and he is French starting on a 5 tile island I might actually win…

[Vernerverner]

Yeah, he & I play as differently as night & day but have both gotten multiple civs in top-10 so it's nice to see that the game support different playstyles. That being said, the very best players tend to be hyper-aggressive. I tend to prefer "sneaky" but I have increased my aggressive tendencies & it definitely helps in this game, especially early in the game. I do hope if there ever is a CivRev 2 that they will incorporate a few of the suggestions I made about giving "passive" players a little more equal footing to make the game a little more varied. Domination will always dominate (unavoidable sorry! , but it would be nice to see the other victory types be a little more viable, even if only by a few percentage points.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

I would love that too.
I am working on being more aggressive though - and yes it helps.

[MorteEterna]

I remember his name too. I played him some days ago.

It was one of the games where everything went as it should for me.
I was American he was Greek, so the odds where in my favor from the start. I got to my 100Gold very fast and went for a Horsearmy. As I have said before I normally have problems with being aggressive, but I want to change that so I went for the Russian and French AI, and got both their capitals.

This gave me control over a large part of the mainland, while Ehogg2 was stuck on one side, maybe able to build a city or two. Then I got my 5 tech, and expanded with all the gold I had acquired. I had something like 15-20 cities and a horsearmy close to Athens, so he couldn’t get settlers out.
I was sure to win this one, but then he attacked my horsearmy killing it easy. Then he went for my cities, and he got two before I was ready for him. But then I came at him with some catapult and knight armies supported by galleon fleets.

He then quit, and wrote me a message that I won with a broken civ, and that I should try a more challenging one. I wrote back, that I agreed with the Americans being very powerful, but that I am new to X-box, and I wanted to gain some rank (by using Americans and China) before I try out other civ. I currently just above 50, so there is still a while until I am in top 20 or even top 10. I don’t know if I ever get into top 10 on x-box, because there are some very though players there.

Anyway, Ehogg2 seemed to be a good player, but when an American player has a start like this, it’s almost impossible to come back in the game. I hope my next game against Morte will start like that for me, because then I will give him a challenge. Maybe if I start like this and he is French starting on a 5 tile island I might actually win…

He is pretty good, but I don't think more than average. I've played with him again.. First time I've used Americans, and he quit in few turns, I don't remember why. Then he asked me to use japanese, indians or romans. I chose Romans and played again on ranked.. I moved my settler and had 2 barbs next to my capital (2 tiles far), it was like mmh, what a good start. It froze, but he decided to quit, I think it would have been a short game

Third game.. The serious one. I moved my settler for something like 6-7 turns, got 100 gold exploring with it.. But, when I was at 75 gold, I found my capital, rushed a warrior and went to 80. Then I started expanding like crazy after 100 gold.. I got horseback riding and built some horsemen from 3 cities, got my army and explored a bit, got veteran upgrade, too. He took one of my new cities with a march warrior. I didn't even think about it, I was thinking about rushing defence.. I took it back, and I attacked Moscow later.. I took it and got march. Took their second city while I kept expanding, and he was still more advanced than me (few technologies).

He unloaded an hoplite, militia, caravan and veteran catapult army next to one of my new cities on the front (opposite of Moscow). He took it and another city, where I built a road. I had 3 roads from that city to other cities, so it was a real problem for him. I had my horse army with march, some archers and legions that I used to conquer it back. I killed all his units (he rushed something like 3-4 hoplites). By 800 AD (a bit late, I know), I rushed oxford, built a bomber army the same turn, went to his capital, and he decided to quit

[Grayson]

He then quit, and wrote me a message that I won with a broken civ, and that I should try a more challenging one. I wrote back, that I agreed with the Americans being very powerful, but that I am new to X-box, and I wanted to gain some rank (by using Americans and China) before I try out other civ. I currently just above 50, so there is still a while until I am in top 20 or even top 10. I don’t know if I ever get into top 10 on x-box, because there are some very though players there.

Anyway, Ehogg2 seemed to be a good player, but when an American player has a start like this, it’s almost impossible to come back in the game. I hope my next game against Morte will start like that for me, because then I will give him a challenge. Maybe if I start like this and he is French starting on a 5 tile island I might actually win…

I like Ehogg2, because he was an American player only for a while, and now he plays with other civs, usually the Greeks now. After beating him a few times in row, when he had an almost 90% record, at first he was saying it was bad luck, then he started saying I was better than him, and he wanted to get better. When he started using other civs, our games actually became a lot better and more enjoyable.

If you want to gain rank w/ Americans and Chinese, that's fine. But, I'll warn you that rank is very addicting, and gaining the rank will more than likely lead you to want to protect the rank, thus making you feel like you have to choose a power civ so you have a lower chance of dropping points.

Once you get highly ranked, games are more costly if you lose, and you don't get that much for a win. As it stands, you might get to the top ranks with the Americans and Chinese, but, if you lose a few games, I bet it will be very hard for you to pick other civs once you lose your spot on the leaderboard. It takes winning more than 80% of your games to maintain a 1500 rating, and more if you want to move up on the leaderboard.

The best time to use other civs is when you are lower ranked. If you want to just get up to the top 10 or 20 once, and then start choosing other civs, that can work, just know that it's going to be very hard for you to stay in those top ranks, unless you are really good with other civs. One freeze or disconnect can bump you down a whole lot of points.

I remember the first time I got the Arabs to the top ranks, I got to #4, and then had 1 loss and two freezes, and I lost 80 points for those 3 games. It took me 2 weeks to get those points back.

You can do what you want. It's a game. I think you handled Ehogg2's message great. It's not always easy to get a msg saying you won just because of civ choice, because that's usually a backhand insult. But, when I win with a power civ, I pretty much expect to get those msgs. I usually apologize, offer a rematch, or just inform them that i have the French and Arabs in the top ranks, and I'm not reliant on those to play well. I usually tell people that if they play me again, and they don't want me to be a particular civ, just let me know. If they are still an ass, then I just ignore them.

Anyway, glad you are liking xbox!

[danthechan]

He then quit, and wrote me a message that I won with a broken civ, and that I should try a more challenging one.

that strikes funny with me since in the multiple times i've played him he was china every time. good to know i won't always see them in our games.

[elthrasher]

You can do what you want. It's a game.

Yeah, that's the golden rule in my book.

But I don't really get wanting to play a power civ every time. I can see if you are playing someone else for the nth time and that guy always plays the same power civ wanting to fight fire with fire. But I've played a fair few h2h games in the last couple of weeks and have come across zero Americans (except the time I got them on random), one Chinese (and he was random) and two Zulu (or three counting me getting them on random). I am finding a lot of Aztecs, but they aren't that tough to beat really. Also seeing a lot of Spanish, which should make for a really good game, but they don't tend to hang around long enough for that to happen (my Mongols are too strong).

Maybe it's just luck. The point is by picking weaker civs (or in my case, going random and getting the Mongols quite a lot), I can have some good games. If I chose America every time, these games would be a horrible bore.

I'm not trying to inflict an existential crisis on anyone or anything, but really what is the use of getting highly ranked with a power civ crushing non-power civs?

But really. Play what you want because it's a game and you should have fun. I just don't understand why that's fun, at least not after several games.

I'm not trying to pick on anyone here, especially not Verner who seems like a nice, reasonable person and has every right to play whatever civ he wants to play. I'm just trying to...well, okay I am actually trying to cause an existential crisis, but just a small one!

[Pedal2Metal]

I can understand it as I played American to the top-10 & then started w/Spanish & Greeks. I did it for several reasons:
1. I was just getting into MP seriously & was tired of getting stomped as the Romans from time to time w/Chinese or Americans. Basically, I got angry.
2. I wanted to learn American better & prove the point that America was extremely overpowered & that it would be insanely easy to get in top-10 w/them.
3. I enjoyed for a time the insanely powerful feeling I got from winning dozens of games in a row. It did get boring quickly after reaching top-10 however.

Once I got bored w/them, I went on to Spanish & Greeks (both pretty easy to get into top-10). I've yet to return to the Romans & I'm starting to like the Mongols too. I don't have time for a top-10 charge like I did when I played the Americans so doubtful I'll see top-10 anytime soon other than through my son's play but my point is I think all players go through "phases" as BigStank & others have discussed. It's difficult to get bored w/America unless you've played them enough to wear them out. I think Verner is still on the learning curve & in that phase, the Americans are very fun. We will play them once in a while now, mainly to counter the "always America/China/Zulu" players or if we're just in a hornery mood (feel like beating someone down). For the most part, I still love the Spanish tremendously & feel like I have a lot more to learn with them even though I've done well w/them already. Greeks too. This game has such longevity to it. Much more than virtually any other video game IMO unless you just love MP play in other genres.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[elthrasher]

It's difficult to get bored w/America unless you've played them enough to wear them out.

I guess that's where I differ from the pack (or at least some of them). I find America extremely boring all the time and I've only played them your typical random sample percentage of times. I don't think I've ever chosen them at all except maybe once when I was just starting out and chose each civ at least once.

But when I get them, I have really two choices:

• Play badly and let the other players sort of get into the game a little, then stomp them. This is fine, but I'm trying to cut lazy habits and basically this is laziness in the extreme. Americans can do fine just rushing settlers when good city spots are found, but it's so much more powerful (as you well know) to just take up every bit of coastline and all the islands.
  
• Stomp them immediately, which is fine, except it sends the message "you suck with your lame Japanese - you should only play America unless you want to lose every match!" which isn't at all what I want to communicate.

I like the challenge of scratching together enough gold and production to get enough cities out to have a halfway decent tech engine. With America, you just need 100 gold and Code of Laws and unless somebody presses very well very fast, it's just all over. I mean, unless the other guy is really good, has a lot of luck or chooses America as well (or maybe China or a close Zulu), you might as well be playing on Chieftan. How much fun is that?

[danthechan]

when i get that wicked itch i go with zulu. all those furious warriors charging around. on ps3 i used americans exclusivly in h2h. i didn't know any better. they hadn't been ordained #1 yet. what got to me was managing all the cities. it was more work than fun.

[Pedal2Metal]

Something I've done w/Chinese & America is gauge my competition & only build like 2 more cities than my opponent. I purposively engage them in a long & interesting game that's reasonably equal until the end of the game. I know that sounds cruel but usually they really enjoy the game & have a fun time which means it's more likely they'll stick with it which is more what I'm after (getting more people playing the game). One time, I let the guy go for an eco win, I pounced on him w/7 of 8 eco points w/12 vet bomber wings, took 13000 gold (his cap), he still got to 20000 gold, I then took his world bank city next turn & then won an eco victory for myself the next turn. It was a fun game & pretty long & hopefully he kept playing. It was China vs. China.

W/America, the "passive" style works pretty well also as America can literally afford to build a pikemen & cat army in every city in Medieval & every market is like a factory for everyone else. I'll just build good high-quality cities, maybe 15-20 really early in the game, defend everywhere, & then go for non-dom win. I've had guys try to press me in these types of games & I give them 2-3 cities before I stop them & just let them keep the cities while I continue to expand another 5-10 to make up the difference. W/America, you can just do whatever you like.

Anyhow, this can make it better for the other guy.

I find the Zulu are ok but they are nowhere near as powerful as China or America. I actually prefer the Aztecs for those games I might want to play the Zulu but the Zulu are fun to play with warriors running around so fast & so early.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal