Civs where you need luck

[MorteEterna]

thats what i am saying, there talking about doing really good with the mongols with only skill.. not just "ok" with skill/balance

you and grayson are also saying luck is needed it, but when i point it out, you suddenly feel like you never said that.. and then call me a little kid/spammer, do you have anymore names to try to make me quit now?

Now I agree 100% with Grayson. You don't even want to hear what we say. IF YOU GET LUCKY, you can do a really good job, if you get a BALANCED start you can still horse rush and take a capital or two, if it's h2h (3 if they are not too far). Then, stop putting in my/our mouth what you want to hear. Maybe you can't even understand what I am saying and you are 16 years old.. I think you should, but still you don't.
And, it seems you don't even read the tricks we are posting. When I have a bad start with some civs (let's compare it with being mongols), I try to sell technologies, declare war to the AI etc.. getting the free settler. After that I have 100 gold to use and city with 2 pop and I can still do a lot of things.

[Grayson]

but they still need the luck..
its true they need the skill, but luck is involved for them to have a great start..

you're entitled to an opinion, if you don't agree that's fine. But as morte said, a balanced start is a couple of barbs, a hut or two, and some exploration cash from naming lands. You don't need 100 gold to make them work. You don't need the horserush to make them work.

Their strats are tougher to play in the opening, and it takes skill to manage those 1 pop cities. It takes more experience than w/ them than I have to make the horserush work, but I do just fine without getting the horsemen out super fast.

For any civ to have a great start, they probably need some luck, unless you are the Chinese, Americans, or Zulu. I guess it depends on what your definition of "great start" is. Other civs have more predictible starts, but nothing I would consider "great". I can do just fine on maps w/ the Spanish, even if I don't get 100 gold, but nothing that can't be countered.

They don't need luck, and again, I think France is the only one that really relies on luck to be powerful. Maybe you could fit Egypt in there.

[MadDjinn]

I find that egypt just needs to not get Stonehenge to be ok.

with stonehenge, then they need luck (find the arc, have no chinese in the game, make it to COL before everyone else, and have no romans). the cap can do ok with less than 3 desert tiles, since settlers are good at finding more...

with the Oracle they're good for an early rush (again, no arabs or fast teching indians).

with the HGB they are decent rushers and fairly quick on early techs.

the Col is their best start, but that's totally luck, especially to get it with 3 or more deserts.

the french need a better strategy to be used, or have the culture victory conditions changed to be equal difficulty to achieve as with the econ and tech victory. (MP side).

my original post still stands. if you lack skill, you think everything is luck. if you are young, you don't want to spend the time to learn anything that may be 'hard', even if it's something that can be better than the easy way once learned.

the indians don't need much luck, since you can just change your strategy based upon the given resource (if it's good). if the resource sucks, then just move your settler and you'll find something useful.

[Hellogoodbye123]

i just dont like the mongols, and i try to stay off americans/china/zulu/ spain and aztecs, im more of an average civ player like japan or rome, but i just like the french, because of the luck, i consider myself some what lucky, i destry galleons with galleys, destroy a knight rush with archers, destroy bombers with rifles on the daily basis, it doesnt always happen, but its happened to me a bunch of times, once i destroyed 3 bomber wings in a row with vet rifles..

[elthrasher]

I find that egypt just needs to not get Stonehenge to be ok.

with stonehenge, then they need luck (find the arc, have no chinese in the game, make it to COL before everyone else, and have no romans). the cap can do ok with less than 3 desert tiles, since settlers are good at finding more...

Even if you get some free Temples to go with your Stonehenge and nobody gets Literacy for a while and you settle a city or two on some deserts, you still really aren't very much better off than if you were playing any other civ and got free Temples. You're worse off than Aztecs would be, IMO.

with the Oracle they're good for an early rush (again, no arabs or fast teching indians).

Yeah, what really sucks is very early on in the game, you may not know if there is an Arab AI or not. There's no way to tell if your Oracle is defective or not without testing it!

with the HGB they are decent rushers and fairly quick on early techs.

I guess. In my view it saves you five turns, which could be fairly crucial, but unless you get off to a great start, it's not going to matter very much. It's easy to lose those five turns...say you run into a warrior army very early and have to build a bunch of warriors to defend instead of building a settler.

the Col is their best start, but that's totally luck, especially to get it with 3 or more deserts.

Not bad even with few or no deserts.

the french need a better strategy to be used, or have the culture victory conditions changed to be equal difficulty to achieve as with the econ and tech victory. (MP side).

Agreed, however I think they can be quite strong if they get two GBs as their first GP. Still totally luck though.

my original post still stands. if you lack skill, you think everything is luck. if you are young, you don't want to spend the time to learn anything that may be 'hard', even if it's something that can be better than the easy way once learned.

Agreed.

the indians don't need much luck, since you can just change your strategy based upon the given resource (if it's good). if the resource sucks, then just move your settler and you'll find something useful.

The only luck-based thing about the Indians is whether or not there is an Arab civ in the game. Getting that +1 culture per city is pretty nice...if the Arabs don't stop you from doing it. Man, those guys are spoilsports!

[GhOsTSidRev]

All civilizations with luck do good, but suddenly the mongols one of the worst civ requires no luck and still do good???? thats the part i dont get, you hide it with this kind of thing you call "Skill"

anyone else agree with me?

I agree with you. Every game you play in civ has good or bad luck. Than you have the civs that require luck to be good or overpowered. Nothing you can do about it. Yes skill can make a bad civ good but if 2 people with skill play and one has lets say Americans and the other Mongols than youre really going to need that luck.

[Hellogoodbye123]

I agree with you.

.............

[Hellogoodbye123]

im gonna make a french startegy, based on luck and skill, but mostly luck

i dont think it be spam, would it morte lol

[ShowtekGER]

the only one who has been insulted in this thread is hgb and i find it a little sad that grown-up people, even fathers among them, are able to attack one who is clearly weaker in this kind of debate so harshly. i don't understand how you can miss that much empathy and comprehension in your age. as this forum is a social community this is nothing more than internet bullying.

to the topic: the mongols are apparently on of the weaker civs. this isn't equivalent to being luck dependent. it just means that a mongol player would need luck against an equally skilled player that uses a good civ. well the mongols will usually be the worst civ in a ffa or h2h. so from this attitude it's imo at least defensible to say they are luck dependent.

it's a little different if we talk about egypt imo. they can be a lot stronger if they find a good thebes position, so usually you should go search one. it's not as unlikely for them to find a good desert sport as for the spanish/english to find whale/dye but it's still a huge risk, especially if there's zulu, american, or another good/lucky rusher in the game. if they get collosus they can normally do a better job. if they get the oracle - well they could rush but it would still have to be fast and that's not easy if you don't get lucky finding gold or finding a good desert spot. the hanging gardens are prolly ok for rushing and also expanding. henge sucks. imo they are clearly more luck based than any other civ in the game. too many factors that can make them suck badly or make them good or even really good.

[Hellogoodbye123]

yes! i got in time before it got locked up..

thx showtek, i was asking myself the same thing.. but i guess a game to them is more important, they only care for there game, they should be ashamed a grown up adult, playing xbox?????? how does that work? im not surprise if they own the wii too.

[ShowtekGER]

that's not at all what i meant and ppl playing xbox or wii is totally fine with me, regardless of their age. and now you actually begin to insult them. you shouldn't do that. it's childish behaviour. and they're right when they say sometimes you should first read a post before commenting and don't spam so much. i also mean those baffling double posts.
that's a little annoying, but not more. one could tell you this without trying to make you look like a thug. yeah that's no reason to try to make you feel like a piece of **** about it. especially not if they're the old ones and you're the young one. they can do better than that imo.

[MorteEterna]

Showtek, all he is doing in his thread is spamming. If he is 16 years old, he doesn't even understand what people say, or he really wanted to "not understand" what we keep saying for pages just to get more messages like he usually does. Then, you say it's internet bullying? You should think about all his posts. In every thread he just spam with one smile and some "..." with no real meaning, or non sense posts, where he keep asking the same question, put some words in the mouth of other members, reads only what he wants to read, and much more. And, he is really lucky that I didn't even report his posts, or he would be banned for sure now

And, he hasn't written good strategies yet, now he says he wants to write a strategy but luck based. Is that writing a strategy, or wanting to get more messages spamming? You should think about it, the only thing he wants to have, is having a lot of messages thinking he would be considered a better player, or who knows. More than half of his posts are pure spam..

[Grayson]

hgb can handle it. And he likes these kind of threads. he's been around for a long time, anad there's many other threads that you have missed out on that are exactly like this one. he knows what he is doing, but sometimes does make attempts to tie it into the game, but that's few and far between.

I resent your post and anyone who has to come out and act like the "savior" of a kid that's been doing the same thing for over a year, and really has never pm'd me to say he was offended by anything I say. I however, have pm'd HGB twice now to let him know if I ever do go too far, for him to let me know, and I'll fix the situation.

The tone of rhetoric I use throughout the forum is pretty much the same for everyone. IF their strategy is bad, I'll let them know, if they are breaking forum rules, I'll let them know as well. If I'm misquoted, I'll let them know too.

he may be a kid, but he's experienced enough with this forum to know what he's doing, and we've lived with it the whole time, and will continue to. I don't think he's really been spamming too bad on this thread, just kinda leading others on for little to no point.

[Hellogoodbye123]

i tried to change accounts but it didnt work i seriously dont care about posts, you ppl are falsely accusing, and i will do my strat, dont get to excited it will come

[Grayson]

i tried to change accounts but it didnt work i seriously dont care about posts, you ppl are falsely accusing, and i will do my strat, dont get to excited it will come

looking forward to it.

will it be like your other french strat? or will you be changing it up a little?

[Dzenith]

You'd think that some of you have never met a forum troll before.

Because of the language difference: Morte, a forum troll is a person that posts simply out of humor or to get other posters angry, often posting outrageous things just to get posters to argue. Once you realize the intent it can actually be kind of funny to see the responses of posters that don't understand what the troll is doing.

In this thread we have several posters getting angry at the forum troll and someone defending him. I'm not sure which is worse.

[Hellogoodbye123]

looking forward to it.

will it be like your other french strat? or will you be changing it up a little?

truly my first strat sucked, i dont even know why i made it.. i guess as a tribute, this one is a little better. but it does depend on luck, and skill.

just played with think before you speak, and i got lucky 4 out of 5 times. In the start i got zero barbs, i knew i was doomed, then i thought my strategy is based on luck, i luckily find a hut, it tells me the 7 cities is 2 spaces away from paris lol, we played teams, i had 4 caps, but they took out my partner, and i was alone, tyshine came in with 10 knight armies, he took everything, except i got to gunpodwer, and saved production, with a great leader settled at paris, switched the production and rushed 3 rifles at 0 gold, i got them upgraded to loyalty and leadership, even though they didnt win, i was probably gonna lose, i had one city, they had a whole lot.

i got really lucky throughout the game, tried expanding but with 0 gold the whole game i lost.. i had to spend my gold on horses and catapults, my frist great person was a scientist, rushed mathmatics, it helped me take out the ai. and think before you think's capital.. he wasnt expecting it.

[Think_Before_You_Speak]

i got really lucky throughout the game, tried expanding but with 0 gold the whole game i lost.. i had to spend my gold on horses and catapults, my frist great person , rushed mathmatics, it helped me take out the ai. and think before you think's capital.. he wasnt expecting it.

I kind of was expecting an attack but I was expecting it earlier so I thought you were just building temples, lol, which you did in Delhi, I saw. But it didn't matter I had 8 other cities very far away. So I wasn't worried. You have to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Losing my cap was something which I couldn't prevent due to lack of gold.

I came back nicely though and did all the teching for Tyshine and gsed industrialisation, he had 9 knight armies due to leos and cruiser fleet. I had 2 cruiser fleets, 2-3 knight armies, random defence units. Fund + sam castle Jap knights with cruiser fleet can't be stopped easily.

It was perhaps one of the most painfully slow games I've played.

[Hellogoodbye123]

I kind of was expecting an attack but I was expecting it earlier so I thought you were just building temples, lol, which you did in Delhi, I saw. But it didn't matter I had 8 other cities very far away. So I wasn't worried. You have to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Losing my cap was something which I couldn't prevent due to lack of gold.

I came back nicely though and did all the teching for Tyshine and gsed industrialisation, he had 9 knight armies due to leos and cruiser fleet. I had 2 cruiser fleets, 2-3 knight armies, random defence units. Fund + sam castle Jap knights with cruiser fleet can't be stopped easily.

It was perhaps one of the most painfully slow games I've played.

i build a temple in madrid too lol.. i was afraid of culture attacks..

when you left, tyshine took over all my cities, and when he reached paris i had riflemen with 72 defense, he had 10 knight armies with 28 attack, he then left, but im pretty sure you guys would of won. i had one city..lol gg though, i guess ill never beat you, but dont go easy on me, i want to beat you fair and square, or was it triangle.

[Hellogoodbye123]

I kind of was expecting an attack but I was expecting it earlier so I thought you were just building temples

ok i was gonna, but when i saw your galleon and my galley right there, i was like plans cancelled!!! i had to unload my catapults and archers out before you destroyed my galley, i think you didnt attack because you were nervous of losing your galleon, by me getting lucky..??

so then built my galleon, and came in for a sneak attack. lol