Thanks Mad. My son lost a city to last night due to AI stupidity after he was disconnected (which most assuredly would not have happened otherwise) & while I think the result would have been the same (he would have been 2nd), it's nice to put something down on paper.Originally Posted by MadDjinn
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
no, thats a little too early for me (6:30 my time). dinner with the wife and then some quality time and i'll pop on to look for you guys. last time i played the appointment gaming card it went over like a fart in church.
Okay, we'll watch out for you. lost34 didn't like the idea of playing later, but maybe he'll grin and bear it. You can sleep when you're dead!
Match 4c Results:
1. Lost34: Spanish
2. SBF MadDjinn: Egyptians (with Hanging Gardens)
3. the headless 10: Aztecs
4. AI: Greeks
5. MorteEterna: Russians
Match info coming soon
I would like if you waited at least 2 minutes. I would have defended at least more turns and I was pretty sure to take MadDjinn. The AI did dumb moves and you didn't wait me.. It's against the rules and it happened 2 times, but no problem, I hope it won't happen again. And for the 4 times I started with 5 population, it wasn't my fault
wow, another win for the spanish.
I admire Morte's willingness to play with the Russians, and I considered using them last night in my match, and may have had a better showing than I did w/ the Greeks, but in the end, I decided against it because I knew that they would never seriously be considered for the 4th best civ. Plus, I still think they are one of the worst civs, I just have played with them more.
I'm glad MadDjinn gave the Egyptians a good showing, we were talking last night about how bad they were fairing in this tourney, and that no one has yet to get the Collosus, which is more like reality anyway. Seems like I never get Collosus in games with them, except when I'm facing such poor competition that I could've won without a wonder.
Looks like no one will come away w/ 4 wins in a row through the first round, unless Elthrasher pulls it off (or communist pride, but I don't know if he's still in or not).
Now that we've almost all finished some matches, hopefully we can wrap up the round robin phase and get to the elimination rounds in a timely manner.
I think this tourney is breathing some great life into the game and the boards, and it's is on that note that I'll give much thanks to MadDjinn for his efforts in bringing this together.
I don't consider them as the 4th, 5th, 6th etc.. I just wanted to have fun but it was just boring when I had a blackout, they didn't wait me and just said " he took your capital the same turn ". I couldn't believe that because I had 2 warriors fortified and 3 warriors in a galley. Much of a waste of gold, but not lucky start. I had egypt and aztecs north and south east then I was in the middle, with spanish left of me. I moved my settler. I preferred to use Indians but the first 2 games I got 5 pop, 2 food banked and 4 production, but it resynch'd and lost everything losing 1 turn. Then I finally could play and took Arabs. No religion, oh, really bad. Aztecs came and he was going to take my capital, but it froze when the horsemen showed. Maybe I ended too fast but I had a warrior and horse in a hill. That could be enough to stop them, but I could still have 2 warriors to defend (move the warrior, and rush the other, while 2 horsemen were coming. One of them was veteran and I could sell the galley). But, after I tried to rejoin, unfairly headless attacked me and killed my warrior and horsemen, and lost everything. At least I had time to see only 1 warrior in my cap.
I would have had fun with Indians, but maybe I should choose another civilization. So bad to see so many spanish players. I consider them 5th or 6th, nothing more.
PS: I had 5 black-outs in this evening, so weird.. One when I was playing with them as I said.. Didn't like it
Last edited by MorteEterna; 08-05-2009 at 10:49 AM.
to clarify.. our last tourny game was filled with glitches.. 4 times we had to restart the match because to begin the game, morte had a 5 pop city complete with warrior instead of the usual settler.. heh.. noone blames you for that morte, just some crazy xbox thing..
but annoying.. we did start a game in which morte was normal to begin, and the match started normally.. mad and the ai were knocked out quickly, but then mortes xbox froze..
me and morte were contesting a city at the time (my vet horse army, mortes captured enemy empty city, with a warrior and single horse on a hill next to it).. it was clear that if morte left and returned, missing the turn and the ai controld the units, he would lose the city..
there was some debate about whether we should restart the match again, as there had been yet another network problem. but as lost and i both had two caps, and lost had been severely hurt by a glitch in the first round with no replay, we wanted to continue..
morte left and rejoined, but had glitched randomly and changed civs to become the aztecs like me.. clearly we would have to replay the game.. .. just a small point of interest, as mad had been eliminated in the game before morte glitched, should he have been in the replay?
either way, im probly glad he was because it was a fun game for us three.. unfortunetly mort froze again in this game.. and again i had a horse army next to his city the turn it happend.. i believe morte also had a galley and troops near mad, and believes that he could have takin mads cap if he had been there during the turn..
as it was, i took his cap in the turn he was gone, and he was eliminated.. both times when he froze and had to leave we were already at war and i had my army at his city.. once the city was empty..
im sorry if you feel cheated morte, but not attacking would have doomed me to a fate worst than 3rd.. id love to play again, even if just for fun..
ask lost for the details of his economic victory.. and ask mad for the details of his vicious counter attack in the modern age, forcing lost to go the peaceful route to victory..
so much typing..
Hey I still gotta shot at it! And I haven't used up my Spanish card yet either!
I still had a movement for the warrior in the first game, however it wasn't ranked then no big problem for me.. It didn't froze the second time but everything got shutdown'd (blackout). I had warriors in the galley but I could move them in the city and perhaps take out your horse army. I don't know what I could do, but I could defend for sure.
When I took arabs it wasn't a walk-in, I had three horses, and one next to the hill, you coulnd't know if you could defend and it was unfair I didn't get religion, then I could stop you before that.
The tourney became pretty boring after that, and I'm not sure about my next civilization. Maybe I will use Aztecs
MadDjinn,
I told you the tourney wouldn't resolve anything.
Morte loves his Arabs & Romans.
Those were the 2 civs you would put ahead of Spain, right Morte?
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
ugh...
I'm not even sure if I should count that match, but likely will have to eventually.
first 2 attempts 3 of us had good starts. but Morte had the freaky 5pop/warrior then resynch losing it all bug. (first I'd heard of it). the fact that it happened 4 times (3 on my host, once on headless's host) was really weird.
the third game yeah, really BS start for me. no deserts. considering the first two games would have made me a tech beast (so many deserts) that sucked. I got the oracle and made the mistake of thinking it was useful against a spanish warrior... I lost. which told me there was an Arab AI around. couple turns later I tried to remove the warrior army that came, but the odds weren't liking me much.
and then morte froze. with the situation already said about what happened with the arab cap.
bunch of back and forth, tried getting morte back in but he was given the Aztecs instead of the Indians. it was still early so we tried again.
morte switched to russians, but got the 5 pop start again.
attempt #5 morte hosted and we had 3 of us rather close, but not too close. at one point, there was a meeting of a russian warrior, aztec warrior and an egyptian warrior in a forest... seems we all went straight for the same spot.
morte thinks he had a shot at my cap but he didn't. I had my 100g with a horse army sitting on the hill that was my cap. I wasn't falling for the put the militia in the way and then attack bit. I had the HGB this time.
at that moment was when the blackout happened to morte. it's questionable if things occured exactly as stated above, but morte wasn't going to survive the aztec horse army or my horse army. (which I vet'd with the random warriors he had kept sending to me).
In hindsight, I think we should have just gone with the suggestion to put the match off til later given all the network issues.
as per the wonderous defense...
I had GB'd the Col in my 2nd city (fish/dye/whale) and was taken aback with lost's getting invention way too early for my liking. So I went for my oxford gambit.
I had finished engineering/university (both first) got invention, feudalism and steam power by the time Oxford finished. I had a nice prod city that I built a barracks/courthouse (with free workshop on 4 hills in courthouse range) where I built it.
As I was doing the above, lost was wandering around taking out headless's cities with knights/one cruiser (and a legion army I think).
sadly I looked at one of my cities and said 'I don't need to rush another pike there right now'. lost the city the same turn... oops.
he looked at my cap for a turn, but the engineer/loyalty pikes behind the wall seemed overly much for him. (my prod city had a GL). I also had a blitz cat army ready for the last one to be rushed.
so he took another tech city near my prod city (I had rushed some more defenses there, but the turn I would have rushed more defenses was the one I finished Oxford.. timing was bad).
I tossed a vet fighter wing together and killed his knights. worked on another one and pop'd his cruiser (I think, something like that). then came the tanks... he had staged them 3 tiles from my prod city and I was really really glad that I had both a GL and Spy sitting there to prevent taking of the city with the death of the pikes (no army, going for slow down defense). managed to sell some other units elsewhere, and I ended up killing off 3 tank armies in rapid succession (he did kill a single fighter, and maybe another wing, but I don't remember much).
at the end of it I only had 2 fighter wings left. but I survived.
then I got a GE from culture which I used for 400g. followed that with some gold work and got a GS for my 500g mark. GS'd Adv. flight after finishing Industrialization. (yeah, I could have gotten The Corporation before him, but menh...)
then I went on trek with the fighters/bombers (expecting that he had fighter wings since he got flight from that tech city.. stupid advisors) but alas no. he still had a decent tech lead, so I focused on some island cities to get the nice techs. even stole one from headless to get religion (then didn't bother defending it so he took it back).
unfortunately I realized he was going for the econ win when he hit 7/8 ticks. d'oh. did a massive spy assault from my prod center (had ~6-7 on the first turn) plus put some down elsewhere. his single spy beat both a vet spy then a vet spy ring before falling to the next spy ring. those extra 3 spies would have been usefull to slow him down if they had won the first or 2nd time. I was pulling off ~1200g/spy. only managed to grab 5k off of him total within the 2 turns I sent spies. sucky.
I really should have just focused on the capitals and that's it. I got kinda lost when I saw him coming with those knights, but never bothered getting back into it when I turned the advantage my way.
I was expecting him to use the Romans, but he chose the Indians for our first two attempts and then switched to the Russians for the final 2 or 3 attempts. It was definitely a weird slew of matches that we tried to get going, and with controversy to boot. It seems that our two tourney matches that we have played have had some weird glitches and weird moments.MadDjinn,
I told you the tourney wouldn't resolve anything.
Morte loves his Arabs & Romans.
Those were the 2 civs you would put ahead of Spain, right Morte?
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Anyways, mad, headless and morte kind of went at it at the beginning. Meanwhile I created a quick science city with whale and found angkor watt early, giving me the great pyramid. I quickly switched to democracy, for the tech bonus and rushed a library and built archer armies as headless came at me with a horseman army. I also found atlantis quite early and decided to just go ahead and grab it, more so to prevent the others from possibly getting it, as well as to keep my galleon moving. I knew I would start teching quick. I quickly teched up to currency (perhaps too quickly as I only had 2 cities, one with a library and my capitol which I was using to make settlers). I got the free market, but it ended up in my science city (this later turned out to be okay when I was in fundamentalism and couldn't use my library). I built a quick production city, got feudalism, switched to fundamentalism, rushed a barracks in this city and pumped out a quick knight army. I had previously built a legion army. I sent these two after the nearby aztec cities with an archer army and took out a few of headless' cities before turning my attention to mad. I took a couple egyptian cities. At this point mad starting closing in on tech a bit from me being in fundamentalism. Looking back I should've spammed more knights, but opted to play it safe instead. I used 2 GS to study metallurgy and combustion. I got 3 tank armies to mad, but as I was doing this he built Oxford University, giving him fighters. He held off and destroyed my tanks. At this time, I decided to focus on an economic victory. I had two production cities of which I started building wonders in both to bank production. I switched over a lot of my cities to focus on gold, built a bunch of markets and then banks, while I worked on defense near my production cities. As I was doing this, mad started going crazy with the bombers. He started by going after the aztecs and the greek ai, but thankfully left me alone, as my defenses were pretty weak at this point. By the time he made it past a lot of the aztec cities and a bunch of my island cities, I had my 20,000 gold and switch production to the world bank for an economic victory a few turns later. Mad tried hard to send a bunch of spies and spy rings my way to deter me from getting 20,000 gold, but luckily I had planned ahead and built a lot of spies in a city that I had taken from him in which i thought he might do this. Overall, it was a pretty fun game, but I definitely would've done some things differently if given a second chance.
I'm glad we finally got this game in after several tries and I know that Morte is not too happy with how things went, but I think that headless and I were more than fair to have agreed to start over after the first Morte freeze in which it seems like he would have been eliminated anyways and in which mad had already been eliminated. Like I said, things were screwy, but I think that we did everything right. We never rushed into a decision. We talked things through. And we made decisions.
I will try my best to grin and bear it. I'm usually asleep at 10, as I have to work early in the morning, so if people aren't on and ready to go, I'm not going to hang around for an extended period of time. I'm sure you guys won't mind if I'm a bit groggy though
I do too & for more than the obvious reasons of Russia being an average civ. He might have done this for strategic reasons also. My guess he wants to play Arabs for at least 1 of the elimination matches hence why he chose Arabs early in the round-robins in addition to getting a solid first place in the first match (highly likely when he plays Arabs). Playing as Russia keeps some of the other better civs available to him for the next 2 round-robin matchs so he'll be able to finish strong as the current 5th doesn't hurt nearly as bad due to his first from the first game. I'm guessing you chose Spanish early for similar reasons. Although you won't be able to play them again until the final match due to the top 4 civs being eliminated from selection for the first elimination matches & most certainly the Spanish will be in the top 4. The Arabs might be in the top 4 also but not entirely sure at this point. My guess is the final match will have everyone picking their favorite civ & then duking it out. Should be an interesting final match.
Anyhow, this tourney is pretty cool although I'm only an observer, it's still fun to watch & speculate over the strategy people are using.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
I agree. This is a pretty cool tournament. Props to Mad for setting this up.
you know, I'm pretty sure I thought that, but did I actually write it down in the tourney thread?
I could have overlooked it. but don't forget, even if the first round of elim matches are that way, there's 2 more matches following it.
strategy is important.
(don't forget that the choice of civ remains with the lowest to highest point totals, so being the best in the round robin doesn't mean you've got a good position for the elimination rounds)
and make with the matches people.
Group C people need to get 2-3 matches in very very soon. Ie, before Saturday.
Why wouldn't you count it?
so much potential controversy.
too many starts/restarts/freezing/things happening with people being away, etc.
but I don't see much outcry over it, so I'm less worried about it tainting the overall tourney.
yeah, I don't think it's too big of a deal, but I'm not a part of that game, so I guess my input doesn't matter too much. Plus, there's no elimination in the round robin phase anyway, so if you guys had to restart 5 times and finally finished a game, even though there were issues in that game, I'd just take the result and move on, especially since it's the match that you guys played twice already within your own group.
While gathering the data/results in the cleanest way possible is the goal, I think another important factor to a tourney this large is to keep things rolling, especially since most tourneys on this board die before a match is even played.
BTW Maddjinn,
it seems like you are trying to get the round robin part completed by this weekend, correct? Then maybe we can have the elimanation phase completed by next week?
I could make pictures if you didn't believe me. It happened also other times. Watdog and others asked me about the match and we are going to play it on Saturday or Sunday then I will see many problems
looks like we have a solid match set for sunday afternoon with morte, commy, basterd, and me. with our large time zone spread that is the best we can do.
I think that we did things very fairly. The day before I froze out, came back, lost a turn, and lost a city 2 turns after because of a spawned archer unit. I also lost a horseman army when the animated sequence showed me beating Morte's knights, only to be surprised by their return the next move and losing my capital. Nobody suggested restarting that game. Morte would have been eliminated in the previous game we got going yesterday, as well as you, yet Headless and I selfishly agreed to another restart. I think that that was beyond fair.
I already told you, I moved the knight before you moved the horsemen, and then the resynch made it normal. If I lost the knight it would be UNFAIR then, because I moved it before you. And not waiting after the rejoin is unfair, I lost 2 units, that means you didn't even wait me (when I was Indians)
Alas. Pwnd by time zone differences and family time. Didn't manage a game last night. I probably won't have another chance to play until Sunday night. Hopefully we can have one then.I will try my best to grin and bear it. I'm usually asleep at 10, as I have to work early in the morning, so if people aren't on and ready to go, I'm not going to hang around for an extended period of time. I'm sure you guys won't mind if I'm a bit groggy though
There's no way I'll be done by the weekend. I haven't been able to get a match in yet. Two players didn't show up for the game I had scheduled Friday night and round one is having continued problems with a player who's mostly only available while I'm at work. Bop Catan hasn't responded to any of my requests to schedule a game (I had the other two for last Saturday and tonight), so round 2 hasn't happened. Almost had round 3 last night, but we couldn't line up our schedules well enough. Now I'm going to be out of town until Sunday.
nah, just trying to get people to line up their matches.
I figure another week to finish the round robin bits.
i am in for our game sunday. we just need the other 2 to chime in.
Great. I should be available starting at 4pm EST.
Hey Morte-
We've got a match between me, you, Matt4632 and Bop Catan that we're supposed to play. I'm out of commission this weekend, but if the other two can find a time next week during the day, I can probably make it (as long as I know ahead of time to schedule a work from home day).
You should tell me the time..
I am not a robot, I play for fun and I try to get some respect from people. The Arabs are 4th in my opinion and my record with them is the real proof, also my % of wins. It was like 90% without counting freezing or maybe more, and still beats Americans with Arabs. I wanted to play Russia just for fun but not really good start with me being in the middle of the continent with everyone maybe 9-10 tiles away.
I will take it "seriously" but I want to have fun, then I will use probrably Romans and Spanish for my future games. Probrably Arabs before Spanish, but I just don't want to see Spanish in the top while they shouldn't be, then I think I won't try to give them more points. Better civs need more scores, like Arabs and Romans.
yeah, I definitely agree there.
more people should play the romans. Arabs well.. few are actually good with them, but hey, it's possible.
of course, if you count just *my* abilities with the Mongols, then they aren't on the bottom, are they? but it's not just about one person's ability with a civ.
No, Arabs are not hard to play and can do a huge job. Mongols aren't top5 and you know, also if you play them well, Arabs are the 4th in my opinion, and if some players learn how to play them well, they would do a good job. It's just bad luck, some players don't want to risk like I do. I want to have fun, then I use the civ I prefer to use, not the civ I want to use to win the game. I have liked that game with Arabs because it was weird, but that reminds me my old games where I could have huge cities. And that proves that every civ has his own territory. Arabs usually get plains and forests, plus some oxen somewhere
If I can ever get a game in, I might play Russia. I really used to think they were just a terrible, terrible civ, perhaps the very worst, but I've simply won too many times against decent players running top civs to feel that way anymore.
I should also play the Arabs because I think they are quite good and I'm somebody who not only knows how to get a fast horse army together, but what to do going forward in the game.
I think England is a very strong civ. Perhaps here is where Morte and I differ. If you don't have a stellar start, just get to modern and kill everyone with a cruiser fleet. Otherwise, knights might do it. Pretty good. Meanwhile, longbows keep you safe for a long, long time.
trying to brush up has led me to play the romans in my last 2 ffa's. both resounding wins as i now can expand much better than i could last time i tried them many months ago. did you get the pm's about our match sunday morte? if so can you make it and what time?
I don't hate England, I like the monarchy, plus that dye giving you +3 science. That's nice, I will play them but I hate when you get bad starts. If you don't get a bad start I'm sure you can do a good job but they can't be top5.
Wasn't it saturday? However 8 PM +1 GMT would be ok for me. Also 7 pm but I wouldn't be sure about it.
Well, that's kind of true for anyone. Are the Arabs any better off with a bad start? You aren't going to get very far with fundamentalist warriors if your neighbor gets several huts and you can't even get 100 gold.
I always feel like I'm really in the driver's seat when I play England. I get a fast GP, my defenses are strong, I have good science, I can mount an early knight rush, if I want, and when I get to 24 techs, I can take any cities I want with ease.
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