Big Daddy: Motivation/ new location

[janissary12]

We see in the Little Wonders facility how the LSs are conditioned to avoid living citizens and fixate on Big Daddies.

Is there a comparable room/complex in the Escort facility that shows how Big Daddies are conditioned to protect Little Sisters? I'm kinda assuming it's an induced COMPULSION, and they aren't doing it of their own free will. (Which is possible, but given the tone of BS, seems unlikely.)

If such a facility was not in BS, I suggest it be added to BS2.

(Last time I played I just avoided a very big room in the Escort facility, 'cuz I remembered there wasn't anything much in there, and it had kicked my rear last time I played.)

[PlasmidSplicer]

I would assume it would probably be some sort of behavioral control plasmid Suchong used to imprint it onto the Big Daddys. That or they were genetically engineered from the ground up to have it persuading there actions, because the first Big Daddy in the Bioshock 2 game-play trailer was stated to be only one to have free will. The former ones must be highly manipulated and controlled, most likely using pheromones or something of the like.

However there is no such room besides the facility used to engineer the Big Daddys themselves. More or less they are one of the least touched on subjects in Bioshock though they maintain such a large part of the game which leaves a lot to be shown in the new game.

[janissary12]

Conditioning is more interesting than mind-control plasmids, aka "magic".

For one thing, it illustrates what complete heartless bastards the rulers of Rapture were.

Or, there could just be an ecology of dependence between the LSs and the BDs: if the BDs are ipso facto ADAM junkies, the fact that LSs spend all their time gathering ADAM makes it pretty much in the BDs' self-interest to protect the LSs furiously.

(Or it could be a combo: some "magic" plasmids, reinforced by conditioning, for instance using pictures of BD candidates' family and personal history to reinforce a "Suggestibility" plasmid's effect. Again, more with the "heartless".)

[Ureh]

Little Sisters need to maintain enough function that they basically still have some freewill. So they were only conditioned like you would with a dog (eg: you catch the ball and bring it back to me, I give you a treat).

Big Daddies however, were mind controlled by a plasmid known as Lot 255 so that it can form a protective bond between the two:

Suchong: Clinical Trial Protector System Plasmid Lot 255 Dr. Suchong/client Ryan Industries. Very frustrating day. I can't seem to get the damn Big Daddies to imprint on the little brats. The protection bond is just not forming...
Little Sister: Papa Suchong!
Suchong: Get, get away... maybe if I modify the genetic sequence to...
Little Sister: Papa Suchong!
Suchong: Shush, shoo... sequence to allow for...
Little Sister: Papa Suchong! Papa Suchong! Papa Suchong!
Suchong: Get away you filthy little ****! *smacks Little Sister* *Little Sister starts to cry* ...What? *Big Daddy growls* What are you doing? Get back... get back!!! Argh!

[janissary12]

Yes, but obviously (drill!) Suchong was WRONG. Either Lot 255 was working, and he said it wasn't, or the BD screwed him into the table for some other reason:

• free will +
• simple human kindness (for the LS that is )
• the LS reminded him of someone (his own daughter, perhaps?

Who else do we know of that has a daughter?

So, while Lot 255 was supposed to form the protection bond, Suchong maintained it wasn't, so BDs might have some other reason to protect the LSs.

(BDs also do some maintenance, as we see in the opening "approaching Rapture" sequence.)

(Ain't this fun??)

[Ureh]

First, just because you see Big Daddies doing maintenance around Rapture, it doesn't mean that they have free will. It could be that they were conditioned to carry out repairs if they can fix them (most notably leakages).

Second, who is to say that Lot 255 did not kick in while Suchong was recording that diary?

[janissary12]

Second, who is to say that Lot 255 did not kick in while Suchong was recording that diary?

Suchong, but he's in no condition.

It's more interesting to give free will to the BDs than just make 'em into golems. It's also more interesting from a story-telling perspective: drones, clones and robots without free will are boring.

I say Suchong was RIGHT: 255 did not work, and the BD killed him 'cuz he's a girl-slapping world-class bastard.

[Ureh]

I say Suchong was wrong.
There was no way he could tell if Lot 255 was kicking in unless there is a glowy indicator for him. At the beginning it must've not been working (maybe they did previous slapping tests or exposed a LS to danger but the BD didn't respond, so Suchong says it was a frustrating day after all that testing with no success). But when he brought them to his office it started to work.

[TseyAkan]

Heh, if a bastard hit a little girl in front of me, just because she was calling her, and I was armed with a drill, and I was an experiment (Therefore, I wouldn't care about laws) I would surely kill him.

[Drow]

It's more interesting to give free will to the BDs than just make 'em into golems.

Its interesting to you, but it doesn't mean it was designed this way.
BDs never ever manifested any signs of free will, so thats pure speculation, based on pretty much nothing solid.

As for me, my opinion is pretty much as it seems from Suchongs diary:
He was TESTING bonding, and maybe gone into some routine, dunno, but he painfully discovered just what TRIGGERS protective pose of BDs and at the same time - that the conditioning infact DID work.
Nothing more, nothing less.

[Big D]

something does not seem right
the lot didn't work on the BD, but it still defends the little sister?

[Drow]

something does not seem right
the lot didn't work on the BD, but it still defends the little sister?

That prooves that the lot IS working.
Suchong was just testing it in the wrong way, that's why he thought otherwise.

[Ureh]

something does not seem right
the lot didn't work on the BD, but it still defends the little sister?

What the heck? What kind of logic did you use to conclude that Lot 255 wasn't working?
I am very flexible, so I do understand what you guys are getting at. Even the small possibility that the BD in the diary is the protoBD. But if 2K decided to make that connection, don't you think it would be a little too convenient for them to connect these dots? Of course I wouldn't mind that they did, but if they did then I wouldn't have that OOOOHHHH realization anymore when I play the game because then I would know what would happen.
The primary thing that seperates the protoBD to all the other BDs is that he has free-will. So we know that the othe BDs don't have free-will.
The only other possibilities (other than the BD in the diary being the protoBD) is that they weren't using the correct methods of testing the Protector System introduced by Lot 255. Or it takes a while for the chemicals to come into effect.

[Beaten with a Rock]

I've got to agree with you on this one Ureh, as far as I can tell, the message that the audio diary tried to get across is indeed that the Big Daddies ARE controlled by a Protector System Plasmid and that it DID work, as evidenced by Suchong's death. I highly doubt they would throw that in at the end if there was another case regarding the Big Daddy's conditioning.

[The Cookie Monster]

What the heck? What kind of logic did you use to conclude that Lot 255 wasn't working?
I am very flexible, so I do understand what you guys are getting at. Even the small possibility that the BD in the diary is the protoBD. But if 2K decided to make that connection, don't you think it would be a little too convenient for them to connect these dots? Of course I wouldn't mind that they did, but if they did then I wouldn't have that OOOOHHHH realization anymore when I play the game because then I would know what would happen.
The primary thing that seperates the protoBD to all the other BDs is that he has free-will. So we know that the othe BDs don't have free-will.
The only other possibilities (other than the BD in the diary being the protoBD) is that they weren't using the correct methods of testing the Protector System introduced by Lot 255. Or it takes a while for the chemicals to come into effect.

I think what happened is Suchong did now that the protector system worked, but just not how the Big Daddies became hostile. So it's ironic that he found out how to activate it when he died.

[Drow]

How could he knew it already, when he was only just testing it?
He didn't know and by the way - he tested it in the wrong way. So it seemed to him, that the lot didn't actually work, when in reality - it was working.
Which caused his rather sudden death.

Besides, why would he consider, that lot wasn't working, knowing, that it works.. It doesn't make any sense.

[Insomniac]

Suchong sure was dumb there, for a guy who is so smart. He should have got some Splicer idiot to hit a Little Sister to test out the protection Bond.

[The Cookie Monster]

Suchong sure was dumb there, for a guy who is so smart. He should have got some Splicer idiot to hit a Little Sister to test out the protection Bond.

I think he hit her out of anger rather than to test out the protection bond.