This could be either interesting to people or annoying but what is your favorite unit and perhaps why?
Mine is bombers I love to use them as defense and a good helper for my offense. I use them to keep peoples units of my land and I use them to tare down enemy defense.
How bout you?
settlers, because everytime one is completed, I feel that much better about my game.
if you meant a unit that can be used to attack or defend, I'd say galleons, because they open up so much of the game at a critical time.
if im the french, i enjoy being the riflemen and cannons.. there fun to use
the cannons make the smoke thingy, its just cool to watch them fire...lol
but i would have to say the battleships, specially if your spain or england, you'll even survive bomber attacks, and they can take down anything on the see..
the naval support is great too
Catapults: attack as good as knights, cost 20% less than knights, auto-heal after attack OR retreat (nice!), don't move out of city when victorious. Best city defense unit in the game until artillery which rarely is ever researched in MP games.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Last edited by Pedal2Metal; 07-17-2009 at 05:27 AM.
For me it's all about the submarine. They are as fast as a galley and as hearty as a galleon. You will never lose your armies when this unit sinks because it can't hold any. Any time I do anything useful at all with a sub (like uncover a tile that was hidden by the fog of war to confirm that yes it is indeed just plain sea tile and not a 2nd atlantis), I get really pleased with my creativity. You can't get that kind of satisfaction out of bombers!
Good one elthrasher
I have another one: caravans. I just beeline my teching to currency and then all i build in every city is caravans. After 2-3 sent from a city to a neighbour, it gets so efficient it can give you as much as 10gold for the 30 hammers you put into building them. What a bargain!
But couldn't you make warriors for 10 hammers and sell um for 10 gold or are you being sarcastic?
Yes, they are being sarcastic & silly. Yes, you can make gold by building units & selling them & warriors is 10 hammers for 10 gold.Originally Posted by norikoxkun
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Caravans are cool too, but I don't care about money. Build them in the modern age and instead of a camel you get a truck and instead of snake charmer music, you get some kind of steel guitar thing.
My other fav is the detached great general: it is the only land unit that can walk through mountains and water!
Well, back on topic, without sarcasm. People who have played me often, may already know what my favourite unit is.
It is in my opinion the most versatile, most useful, most game changing and tactically useful unit in the game.
The unit I am talking about is of course the cruiser. It gives you mobility like no other. I can have a knight army or tank army at one side of the map at one turn, 3 turns later it can be at the other side, unloaded and attacking your capital. All because of the cruiser.
When I play English, I couple this with another unit close to my heart, the catapult for the many reasons that Pedal has mentioned, but mainly for the autoheal.
The cruiser is king of the middle game.
I am more peacful by nature I love those Vet Modern Infantry.....................
I cant believe I'm the only one who says tanks. If the game has gone this long I like to end it then and there if I can. I do the same with knights, but tanks are much more reliable. In all the games I have played only one time tanks let me down.
Tanks are good, yes. But if I had to give a serious answer, I'd go with the settler. Lots and lots of settlers = winning most of the time. For a military unit, I prefer the cruiser. If you get a couple cruiser fleets going before anybody else has Steam Power, the game is over. Especially if you're playing English, but even if not. Cruisers + knights and/or catapults = better than 40 attack which is going to cut up your enemies' archers and pikemen and will win against riflemen sometimes. Cruisers + tanks = 58 attack (without any bonuses on top of veteran), so now riflemen can't stand up to them anymore.
Cruisers have really become central to my strategy a lot of the time these days. A knight army alone seems too fragile to me unless I get it very early, so instead of going right to war the second I have one, I build 2-3, maybe some cats, then get a cruiser fleet ASAP. Hasn't let me down yet. Sure I have bad games where I'm getting killed and am nowhere near Steam Power, but every time I've gotten the fast cruiser fleet with 2-3 mid-game armies, I've won.
i've always liked knights. they come along very early and are pretty well balanced depense vs. offense which makes them more versatil than catapults, pikemen etc. i've found as an army with veteran and lots of upgrades, knights can often hold their own well into the industrial age.
I find tanks easy enough to kill tbh. The Arabs and Japanese can take them down easily if they have a hill.
Tank army on forest/hill = 36 defence
Tank army on grassland/plains = 27 defence
Arab/Japanese fundamentalist knights attacking from a hill = 36 attack.
So this is equal odds. However, my favourite unit the Cruiser will sway it in my favour. Or one of my favourite wonders, the Samurai castle will also sway the odds in my favour if the battle ground is landlocked.
Also a hill city with a fundamentalist guerrilla catapult army will have 37.5 attack so will have the advantage over the defending tank army.
Hmm, i do not understand how you get that number. Tanks are 16 attack base, making tank army 48 base, vet 72, then you can add the naval support to that. According to the civilopedia at least, now I have to admit I rarely use tanks, I tend to finish my games with knights... (with cruiser support if needed).
Tanks are 10 base attack. Vet is 45. A vet cruiser fleet without any extra bonuses (Samurai Castle, England, Spain, etc.) gives you 13 support (half the 27 attack rounded down).
You are thinking of Artillery. They have 16 base attack.
I love the cruiser knight combo as well, but I figure why not just get tanks as they are a few turns away anyway. I usually put together a cruiser fleet with my tanks for safe travel so tank defense isn't much of an issue for me. I use to finish most of my games with tanks, but I have been using knights more and more. However, unless Im the English I usually do knights plus fundamentalism and that gets the job done. I wont do knights without naval support or fundamentalism.
i like the slightly earlier cat/galleon combo with the spanish.
it must be awesome to get adv. flight really early from oxford university. i never got that but it must be devastating.
i worked it once and although gratifying it made my opponents real whiney and got me negative feedback. they couldn't understand why i needed my whole 1 minute turn to produce and combine my wings from all over the globe. or maybe they were just but hurt.
Last edited by danthechan; 07-22-2009 at 12:54 PM.
it's not hard to do, but don't forget that there's a bug where you can't make offensive units anymore til you hit tanks. (doesn't count for siege engines or defensive units).
and well, unless you have a great gold income, it's hard to press that advantage before people get better defenses up, forcing you to make full bomber wings.
I loves me some spy rings! lol
I like spies, maybe I don't need a ring, but spies are useful.
Few turns away?
You can't have 50 cities everygame and 400 science per turn. In a normal game it could be 10-15 turns away, then knights are much faster than tanks and they aren't unbeatable. I remember with greeks I usually built 3 tanks armies and then attack, and I would add it was like 1 year ago (and 1 month or more) but few players only had more defences like pikemen or riflemen. That was going to happen by 1000 AD but by these times it was really fast. Sometimes also by 700-800 AD. However, only 1 tank army is not enough, it can die fast and if that happens, before you build others and send them, your enemy should be smart enough to defend better.
I would say that if you want to kill an enemy and be sure, you should build knights plus fundamentalism. You can build 2 armies instead of one tank army and it should be better and faster. The attack is the same:
Knights = 5 (army 15)
Veteran = 22.5
22.5 * 2 = 45
PS: Knights should be still in industrial era, while tanks usually need modern era and you would pay more, then why not building knights?
Like I said Ive been building knights more and more, and I use fundie with them. I should say if I go for tanks I do it with a GS, so 2 to 5turns for gunpowder and then just skip metallurgy and tanks. If I don't have a scientist(unless Im winning by a lot then it doesn't matter anyway) I go the industrialization corporation route skipping tanks. I like to use two or more tank armies with triple cruiser support when I use them, that's always worked for me, but like I said I do this with a lead. I guess Ive just had better luck with tanks, probably because I use to not use fundie before.
Tanks defend better against counters but 2 Great Scientists aren't easy to get, maybe 1, but knights are faster to build, simple, you don't need scientists, and you can use them to rush industrialization and corporation to build more knights. I usually prefer tanks but knights are good, too.
You can just tech hop metallurgy you know this.
If you do so without the aid of a GS, you're typically not saving yourself very much (10 beakers only). Sometimes you can get to Steam and have tanks 2 turns later, yup. In those cases, if you have the money you need to rush a couple tank armies to go with your cruiser fleet, then you should do it. But, I mean, that game is totally in the bag. Tanks first. Lots of money. You'd have to try to lose.
There are plenty of games where there's a sizeable gap between getting Steam and Combustion. With no GS, it could easily be like 9 turns and you may not have the money to rush two tank armies. 9 turns could be the difference between facing archers and a few scattered pikemen or facing vet riflemen armies holding you off until your enemy (who went and got Industrialization first) beats you back with his own tanks and cruisers.
The faster you can go on a strong offensive, the faster you can disrupt your enemies' plans.
Yes, that is why I usually try to beat the other before tanks. It's much easier and faster and against good players it's hard to have great science unless it was a techer v techer match (or perhaps fast rush then tech ). Tanks are easy not hard to stop, in my last match where I met a good player and tanks was against a top10. He used chinese and had by 500 AD Modern infantry, tanks, industrialization. My best unit were riflemen but I could tech up and I had a mega city (couldn't produce gold). I rushed combustion and tried to defend because he was attacking with tanks (some veteran tanks armies, each 5-6 turns 1 new army appeared). I could stop him by sending him diplomacy but didn't remember.. I used a lot of riflemen and at the end he wasted a lot of gold on tanks, when I finished oxford and got (I don't know the name --> you get artillery). I destroyed his armies and took the 3 cities I lost. 1 tank army means 1 attack per turn. I had like 20 units defending in my city and I kept sending and getting gold. Then he could kill like 3-4 units but I had riflemen, hill, and after some turns veteran. He wasted everything because I killed all his armies and destroyed all buildings in London, then I took 2 empty cities and took Beijing with artillery vs archer army, but it froze after that.. If he attacked me with more units after some turns (tanks) or turns before but with more units (knights) he could kill me. If he had knights, only a veteran army could beat a riflemen, and he could stop me with more units. Then worse units VS more units. Better units but less units VS less units but better units
Whether it's a bug or not is a matter of opinion. I find it balances the game out a bit as bombers when you've got anything but fighters means I'm going to take a lot of cities fast so having to build slow-moving units that must be delivered by boat isn't all that unreasonable. All I usually do is put a pikeman on a cruiser & take your city once my bombers can't attack anymore. So I think it might be a balance thing but who knows.
You do need either gold and/or production but not too much, especially if you do this in Industrial which is when I usually do it. 1 bomber = 60 hammers = 240 gold in Industrial. Assume you've got 1 city w/30 production, 2 cities w/10 production: You can field a bomber wing w/520 gold every turn. Not bad. 260 gold/turn gives you a bomber wing every 2 turns, also not bad.
The great thing about bombers is they will be delivered to the target very quickly & optimally efficiently no matter where they are on the map. However, if you haven't built enough cities over the entire map, you might need to rush a settler & build a dummy refueling city. I've had to do this a few times. I've never lost a ranked match where I got bombers using Oxford. I lost 1 unranked match due to messing around but even then only because I didn't have enough naval support to deliver units to take cities. The guy had Modern Infantry everywhere w/loyalty (Japs), still didn't matter. You need fighters to really stop bombers reliably, anything else & you will eventually lose if there are enough wings in the air as bombers will take down battleship fleets eventually & then MI will fall next. You can bring all the tanks you want & it's irrelevant.
I played this Chinese guy in H2H as Spanish & he brought 1 tank army, 4 knight armies, 1 rifleman army, 1 cruiser fleet (all veteran) to attack my capital (Madrid) after I had blown Oxford for Adv. Flight. I finished a vet bomber wing & took out his cruiser fleet so he had no naval support. One thing people may not know is that bomber wings won't move out of your city if attacking an adjacent unit so they are just like catapults in that regard & great for defense actually. So they work real well if you just want to hunker down & go for eco/tech/cult win & put bomber wings in your cities (along w/fighter wings of course at some point). Anyhow, he proceeds to attack w/all his units. Tanks take my archers (I've still got pikemen, legions, cats, bombers in my city so long ways to go). Knights attack & get my bombers. Bombers kill all 4 knight armies. Due to auto-heal of bombers, the knights never make a dent (maybe I lost 1 plane on a battle but auto-heal means you have to win the battle not just make a dent). Next he attacks w/riflemen, they lose also. So now he's left w/1 tank army w/no naval support. I proceed to bomb his tanks & they die. Now the game has completely shifted power as he's probably blown every last cent & hammer on that huge military force (120 + 150 + 300 + 60 = 630 hammers) vs. my 1 bomber wing (1 free + 120 hammers). I'm doing like 2000 gold/turn, I start spamming bomber wings EVERYWHERE. I start taking out defenses in weak cities w/1 bomber & build some wings for the stronger cities. In the matter of 5-10 more turns, he quits as I've taken 3 cities & am on the verge of taking 2-3 more. All of this was accomplished w/only 8 Spanish cities. I've determined they need one of the lowest city counts to thrive, just high quality cities that are obtained before 0 & grow fast. If you get 8 of these by roughly 0, I've seen it's usually enough except maybe against the Americans. Obviously more is better & games where I've gotten like 13 cities (all high-quality), it's just ridiculuous what the Spanish can do.
Using Oxford for Adv. Flight does need to be part of an overall strategy but even when you don't have a lot of resources, 1 vet bomber is 27 attack which is pretty huge for defensive purposes & often doing just this can impact your opponent's teching order/strategy significantly. Because it can move 6 & fly, you can deliver this unit to whatever city you need it within 2-turns usually so it's great for "dynamic-defense" strategies which work real well w/Spanish w/naval support. You can use 1 fleet + 1 bomber wing to provide "dynamic defenses" where you need them in your island cities. If you also happen to have the plan (prod/$$) to back it up, the game is virtually over as long as you press your advantage. You don't need the tech advantage to do this either which is one nice thing I like about it. I can concentrate elsewhere defending Madrid, building my gold base, etc.... & just stay reasonably close (let's say within 5-10 techs or so) & then pop Oxford & start building bomber wings everywhere. Once you get 3+ bomber wings, you can likely take virtually any city on the map w/o much difficulty. If you build like 9+ wings & start taking 3 cities simultaneously, now it really starts to get hard for your opponent because now he can't do the "frontline" defense so many here like to do (defend/reinforce in only 1 "frontline" city which is under attack). Any city is at risk & he can't know which one you'll strike next.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Last edited by Pedal2Metal; 07-23-2009 at 06:23 AM.
yes, having mass gold/turn helps.. which is what I said.
Bombers are great, I just never learned the oxford to get advanced flight trick. I should be doing this, when does oxford give me advanced flight? My games rarely get into adv. flight territory and at that point Ill probably go for space flight.
Build Oxford when Industrialization is your best tech.
Or just have a look at the tech tree. Oxford gives you the best tech you have a prerequisite for.
Thanks, I would have said bombers as my fav., but like I said I never used them a whole lot.
I wouldn't call them my fave by any stretch. If I need to have bombers, then in a sense I've kind of failed. Oxford/Advanced Flight is good, but you do need a lot of cash to really rock it and being unable to produce knights is kind of a drag (because it would be easy to gallop behind your bombers taking cities after the bombers clear away the defenses).
Hey, this is a case in which the +1 movement riflemen of the French and Egyptians could actually be pretty useful! I'll try it next time I get one of them.
Actually it's a bit more than that. You need Industrialization & you need Industrialization's prereqs which is Steam Power & Banking. You also need the Prereqs of the Prereqs. That is you need the Prereqs for Banking & you need the Prereqs for Steam Power. You also need University obviously. If you do this & then finish Oxford, you will get Advanced Flight.
Note, I don't know what happens if you complete an equal tech to Industrialization & have all the prereqs & prereqs of the prereqs for that tech as well. I generally time things out to where I get Oxford on the very next turn that I get all the requisite tech conditions so it doesn't usually impact me one way or the other.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
I agree & didn't mean to imply that wasn't a valid qualitative point. Rather, I wanted to quantify it a bit & point out that 260 gold/turn isn't a huge amount of gold for a civ to make in Industrial. Usually you should be able to do this amount of gold turn in Industrial w/o much trouble if you've done anything reasonably well. I used to use Oxford all the time w/Romans & I didn't usually have a ton of gold. I just tried to get 2 decent production cities + 200-300 gold/turn. Now I could generally produce a bomber wing every 2-3 turns which is usually sufficient if Oxford is done early enough. With Romans, it's a no-brainer to have bombers in 500-1000 AD range. Spanish can do this pretty easily also although one's strategy is significantly different between these 2 civs in terms of how to best accomplish this.
best regards,
Pedal2Metal
Well if you get corporation on top of steam and industrialisation, you receive networking. This is very powerful as universities are now 1/2 price. 80 production instead of 160. You also have access to the internet wonder which is also very powerful and should guarantee an economic win as it doubles your economy.
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